I need some info for a friend.

[kdogg]

I need some info.

I have a friend who has two kids and she is having some issues with her ex.

I guess he has beat the crap out of her and is threating to kill her. The police have been involved and she is going to seek a PPO but I'm sure he could care less about a piece of paper.

She was asking me about pepper spray today and I said its better then nothing but had she considered a gun yet?

I told her she could take a womans only CPL class, maybe a decent self defense class and should go look as a revolver or some type, maybe a .38 or something.

She is very interested and wants more info but I'm not sure who to send her to.

I guess she tried to get some help from the YWCA, they help battered women there but that just pissed off her ex even more so the poor girls is scared for her life and the lives of her kids.

Any info would be great guys and gals.

Also, does anyone have any experience with emergency temporary CPL's for issues like this? Kalamazoo County, hard to get?

[TFin04]

www.rjgfirearmstrainingacademy.com
For CPL classes. Husband and wife duo, they come highly recommended from these guys:

www.michigantrainer.com
For handgun training.

I'm no firearm expert (or a female, guess I'm in the wrong forum ;)) but a 38 wheelgun is the last handgun I'd consider for a woman. Everyone defaults to them because they are small and light, but they are one of the hardest platforms to shoot well.

My gf and mom are both looking at getting their CPL. So far the Glock 19 and 26, Sig 225 and Makarov are their favorites. All are solid defensive firearms, though Glock is my favorite. Let her pick the gun. If she shoots the revolver best so be it, but very, very few people do.

For the temp CPL, I'd contact the local PD, and maybe Jim Simmons would have some more legal input for you.

Good luck.

[skoltuniak]

She doesn't need a CPL for home defense.

[Norton]

Lots of help availabel through the PD/ sheriff department or county. Places to go for counseling/shelter etc.
For the time being, Kimber pepper spray. Everything else you mention takes time which she may not have.
Norton

[kdogg]

Well, she is already getting some help from the YWCA but as I said, thats just pissing off her ex more.

I know she doesn't need a CPL for home defense, but she wants to be able to take it with her. The home defense and self defense classes are more because she hasn't handled guns and I don't want anyone getting shot or one of her kids getting a hold of it. I thought a class might help too.

I picked a revolve because you don't have to worry about clearing it if it jams, if it fails to go boom, you just pull the trigger again and advance to the next round.

I don't want her to buy something that might jam or something and then she is unable to clear a jam fast enough.

Thanks for the info guys, I'll pass it on.

[TFin04]

Well, she is already getting some help from the YWCA but as I said, thats just pissing off her ex more.

I know she doesn't need a CPL for home defense, but she wants to be able to take it with her. The home defense and self defense classes are more because she hasn't handled guns and I don't want anyone getting shot or one of her kids getting a hold of it. I thought a class might help too.

I picked a revolve because you don't have to worry about clearing it if it jams, if it fails to go boom, you just pull the trigger again and advance to the next round.

I don't want her to buy something that might jam or something and then she is unable to clear a jam fast enough.

Thanks for the info guys, I'll pass it on.

I think the likelihood of a malfunction happening in a pistol is far less than her not being able to shoot the revolver properly. Shooting a double action revolver well, especially under stress, by someone with no pistol training, is simply not going to end well.

I would also recommend against 'picking' the gun for her. I basically started with a list of guns I 'trust' and worked down the list for my mom and gf. Let them decide what works best, with a few pointers from you.

GF likes the G19 but is probably getting a 26 because she knows she will carry the smaller gun more often. Works for me.

Mom liked the trigger on the sig and Mak, but she can't rack the slide on any auto pistol. Stainless 3" revolver for her. Ideal? Nope. But she understands it takes work and she shoots regularly. She grew up around guns and grandpa is a big revolver guy. Was not my first choice but its better than no gun.

Women often don't shoot because they are pressured into it. Let her have a say, within some guidelines and go from there.

Absolutely the first thing to do is set up a support system, let people know what is going on, have her neighbors check on her periodically and at least make sure she is carrying a big can of fox labs pepper spray for now. Kurt sells them at the Gibraltar trade shows.

[who dat]

She doesn't need a CPL for home defense.
She doesn't need a CPL to open carry either.

[Done Deal]

I think the likelihood of a malfunction happening in a pistol is far less than her not being able to shoot the revolver properly.

Shooting a double action revolver well, especially under stress, by someone with no pistol training, is simply not going to end well.

Please, enlighten me....upon what do you base these statements? I can't think of anything less complicated to shoot under pressure than a double action revolver.



Mom liked the trigger on the sig and Mak, but she can't rack the slide on any auto pistol.

And yet, you still advocate a semi over a revolver....incredible.





IMHO, the right revolver hard to beat for reliability under extreme conditions. She might want to look at a cheap single shot or double bbl shotgun for home. They are pretty easy to master, even under pressure....and almost always go boom.

[PhotoTom]

I have a friend who has two kids and she is having some issues with her ex.

I guess he has beat the crap out of her and is threating to kill her. The police have been involved and she is going to seek a PPO but I'm sure he could care less about a piece of paper.

She was asking me about pepper spray today and I said its better then nothing but had she considered a gun yet?

One very important factor for her to consider...is she capable and willing to defend her life up to and including taking his life? If she (or anyone under the same circumstances) is NOT capable/willing to go that far, they should not consider bringing a deadly weapon into the "mix".

The point is, a lot of times people feel that just the mere introduction/display of the weapon will send their foe off running to never return. Things don't always work that way...if her "ex" knows her well enough and figures she wouldn't actually pull the trigger...maybe he IS capable...or, as demonstrated, has an uncontrolled temper...

She asked about pepper spray. I'm just sayin'...make sure she fully understands the potential decisions/risks/responsibilities involved with "stepping-up" to the next level in this scenario. If she truly fears for her life or that of her children, then self defense, up to and including deadly force is the way to go...but she needs to come to terms with the entire spectrum up front and have the state of mind and understanding of what a gun does and doesn't necessarily do...as well as what she may be faced with doing...

[TFin04]

IMHO, the right revolver hard to beat for reliability under extreme conditions. She might want to look at a cheap single shot or double bbl shotgun for home. They are pretty easy to master, even under pressure....and almost always go boom.

I'm not going to get into the same rhetoric with you. I gave the disclaimer that I do not consider myself an expert, just adding my opinion based on the firearms I have owned and shot, and my recent experience in finding a defensive gun for two females.

You constantly find my posts in threads and take them out of context to pick them apart. My "base" for a revolver being a bad choice is based on my own attempt to master the platform. It is not as easy to shoot as a good auto. You seem to think otherwise. Quit talking and come shoot some time.

PhotoTom brings up good points. Strapping on a firearm and putting a CPL in your wallet does not make you a gun fighter.

[Done Deal]

I'm not going to get into the same rhetoric with you. I gave the disclaimer that I do not consider myself an expert, just adding my opinion based on the firearms I have owned and shot, and my recent experience in finding a defensive gun for two females.

You constantly find my posts in threads and take them out of context to pick them apart. My "base" for a revolver being a bad choice is based on my own attempt to master the platform. It is not as easy to shoot as a good auto. You seem to think otherwise. Quit talking and come shoot some time.

PhotoTom brings up good points. Strapping on a firearm and putting a CPL in your wallet does not make you a gun fighter.

Rhetoric?

What appears to be a constant is that you seem to have mighty thin skin for somebody with so many opinions (eg 38 wheel guns are not good weapons for a female).

Self defense is not just about punching paper. Just because you can't master the platform doesn't mean that it is a poor platform.

KISS has long been a good concept, especially under stressful conditions. A revolver is less prone to malfunction/return to battery issues than a pistol and I think that the real experts can back that up. And, while I don't claim to be an expert either, both my daughter (CPL) and my wife (who started shooting a wheel gun way back in the late 70's when I got issued one) don't seem to have a problem shooting just fine for defensive purposes, especially my wife.

I guess I musta missed the part about PhotoTom saying anything about becoming "a good gun fighter". From the sounds of things, this poor women just wants a little peace of mind should things go south with nobody there to protect her and her little ones.

If you want to become a good gun fighter....good for you.

[Leader]

If you find an auto she likes & can handle, don't worry too much about her not being able to work the slide. Load it, put the safety on & go with her when she practices.
She'll find something she likes if she keeps one after this is over.

[khicks]

i do not know where you live but the fireing line in westland runs ladys nite about every two weeks or so is one option. the other is get her to a range and let her try out the hand guns

[Combat Commander]

I picked a revolve because you don't have to worry about clearing it if it jams, if it fails to go boom, you just pull the trigger again and advance to the next round.

I don't want her to buy something that might jam or something and then she is unable to clear a jam fast enough.

Thanks for the info guys, I'll pass it on.

If she can drive a car, and use a cellphone she can use a auto pistol. Wheel guns do lockup and are not always the best choice for women.

[fbuckner]

I will agree wheelguns are great but there is no reason that a woman cant use a semi-auto. There are however some that cant operate the slide due to them being really little ladies.

[Done Deal]

If she can drive a car, and use a cellphone she can use a auto pistol.

Wheel guns do lockup and are not always the best choice for women.

Can use an auto pistol or feel comfortable and secure using an auto pistol?

Anyway....I since I got my LCP, my wife may have decided that time permitting, she might just take a CPL class. But, dollars to donuts she will use the same ported and tuned 4" Model 66 that my daughter used when she took her class. But, she does like the looks of that little pistol for toting when she feels a need.

[remingtondude58]

the other is get her to a range and let her try out the hand guns

i agree and those handguns should include BOTH revolvers and semis

[Tedfs]

The important thing is for her to decide she's ready and to find a shop willing to let her decide what she wants and is comfortable carrying.

Another aspect is to get training . Many people take the CPL class and leave it at that. However, if anyone is going to carry they should have some training with the gun they are going to carry and what using that gun might include.

Force on Force is a great way to learn how to deal with a confrontation in a "safe" environment. There is no better way to be prepared for a violent confrontation than to have gone through several of them before hand on your own time in a learning environment.

When anyone decides they want to carry, training will prove to be invaluable in the long run.

[fbuckner]

remember there are some fine trainers here in the state. One doesnt have to go out of state to get a wallhanger certificate to get great training.

[Tedfs]

That is very true, a little searching can find some local training. It might also be a chance to get away from the kids for a few hours and spend some time with like minded adults.

[fbuckner]

That is why we like doing what we do.

[Susquash]

Sorry TFin04 but I have to agree with Done Deal. I'm a retired LEO and police academy firearms instructor. A revolver is easier for someone with no experience to learn to shoot accurately. They have less to remember in how to operate it. You don't have to worry about limp wristing it or racking a round into the chamber.

Aside from that kdogg, a firearm may not be the best solution to your friend's problem as PhotoTom pointed out. Unless your friend gets the proper training and is willing to use a firearm, it may be more of a threat to her. I would suggest she contact her local Women's Aid Service for shelter if she is that fearful of her ex and work out a safety plan with them.

[TFin04]

Standing at a firing line and punching out the 10 ring is a lot different than trying to defend yourself with a firearm. I've never been able to limp wrist any of my auto pistols, and I have intentionally tried to do it.

I'm not saying that revolvers are bad guns or that they're impossible to shoot well, I'm just saying a simple double action semi is going to be an easier gun to shoot defensively. The stock trigger pull on a Glock is less than half the weight of most J Frames. Making hits is trigger control. You're telling me trigger control is easier on a Revo? I'm not buying it. Recoil is going to be a lot higher in an alloy revo as well.

Revolvers and double action semis require the same thing to make them go bang: pull the trigger.

I own and shoot revolvers. I love the platform. I just don't carry them.

[Done Deal]

Standing at a firing line and punching out the 10 ring is a lot different than trying to defend yourself with a firearm.

I've never been able to limp wrist any of my auto pistols, and I have intentionally tried to do it.

.

And, tell us....how many times have you been in an armed confrontation?

How many times have you had your azz whipped bad?

How many times...

[TFin04]

And, tell us....how many times have you been in an armed confrontation?

How many times have you had your azz whipped bad?

How many times...

Ask yourself the same questions.

We have different opinions, let's leave it at that.

[Done Deal]

Ask yourself the same questions.

We have different opinions, let's leave it at that.

I have.

It seems you choose not to heed the voice of experience....your call.

Hopefully readers will be wise enough to be able to determine what advice is sound and what advice is.....well.....don't believe me.

But, I find it amusing that you also are trying to match your how many years of experience to that of a retired police officer who is a firearms instructor at a police academy. I have to believe that he was shooting in the course of his employment before you were even a gleam in your Daddy's eye. Lets leave it at that....

[TFin04]

I have.

It seems you choose not to heed the voice of experience....your call.

Hopefully readers will be wise enough to be able to determine what advice is sound and what advice is.....well.....don't believe me.

But, I find it amusing that you also are trying to match your how many years of experience to that of a retired police officer who is a firearms instructor at a police academy. I have to believe that he was shooting in the course of his employment before you were even a gleam in your Daddy's eye. Lets leave it at that....

You keep playing that card like you know shit about me. You have no basis for that argument other than your own misconceptions.

With no disrespect to Susquash, I have shot with a few police 'instructors' (and some even recently) that I don't know I would take firearm advice from. Others on this board know what I'm talking about. That doesn't need to be public though.

I have no idea how skilled or unskilled Susquash is, as I've never met him. I wont make an opinion about someone I know nothing about, you seem to have no problem doing that though.

[fbuckner]

Lets keep it civil boys Please !!!

[TFin04]

Lets keep it civil boys Please !!!

You're right. I said my piece. I don't like revolvers for carry guns. That's just me.

The important part is that someone is willing to carry a gun and disciplined enough to practice with it. Hopefully we can all agree there.

[RifleGuy]

...I'm not saying that revolvers are bad guns or that they're impossible to shoot well, I'm just saying a simple double action semi is going to be an easier gun to shoot defensively. The stock trigger pull on a Glock is less than half the weight of most J Frames. Making hits is trigger control. You're telling me trigger control is easier on a Revo? I'm not buying it. ...Revolvers and double action semis require the same thing to make them go bang: pull the trigger.
TFin04, for me a revolver is easier to shoot well. I don't know why, can't explain it, but I consistantly shoot better with a revolver; be it a short bbl .38 or a 8" 44 mag.
I like semi-auto's, shoot them often, but I have to work much harder to make the hits than I do with a wheel gun.
Just my 2 cents.

[TFin04]

I always knew you were a little weird.... :D

[RifleGuy]

Never denied it, Hoss!
Short bus, really big doors.

[Done Deal]

You keep playing that card like you know shit about me.

You have no basis for that argument other than your own misconceptions.



Well sir, when you don't cite experiences that would lend creedence to your assertions....one can reasonably believe that you got your experience on the range.....or, like many other internet guru's are a read and regurgitate kinda guy. I asked what experience you have to have formed those opinions of yours and what was your response?????

My "argument" is quite simple. I believe a wheel gun is easier for an inexperienced person to use in a defensive situation than a semi-auto. Your other issues are another matter....

[theboyzmom]

I am new to the forum but I must say that I prefer my S%W revolver to any auto I have shot. I have a double action but with a concealed hammer and have never misfired it - of course I have never had to shoot someone either so . . . But I like my gun - it carries well with the shorter barrel and it packs enough of a punch (it is a 357) to take down anyone that I need to.

[RifleGuy]

Welcome, Cindy! Glad to have you on board! We look forward to sharing argu... discussions with you and getting to know you better.

And, the fact that you prefer revolvers to autos just helps me like you all the more. Ha!!

[fbuckner]

Your not far from me I live between byron and howell..