Open Carry Picnic in Warren

[Jim Simmons]

From the Macomb Daily: (click here for the entire story) (http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/081408/loc_local01.shtml)

'Open carry' group to gather

Guns on hips, advocates to meet in Warren


By Norb Franz
Macomb Daily Staff Writer


http://www.macombdaily.com/images/081408/7579_256.jpg (http://www.macombdaily.com/images/081408/7579_512.jpg) Ron Gibson and his wife, Jennifer, talk to their neighbor, Diana Pussehl, right, Wednesday in Washington Township.
Macomb Daily staff photo by David Dalton


Ron Gibson carries a semi-automatic pistol on his hip for anyone to see, and insists he's not out to intimidate.
When he goes to bed, the .45 caliber firearm is nearby and loaded.
"Just because I'm carrying a gun, I shouldn't be viewed as a threat. I don't bring any attention to it whatsoever," he said. Gibson is among about three dozen members of a gun rights group who will "pack" a picnic with their families Saturday afternoon in Warren.

[dougwg]

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13510.html

It's been in the works since July 14th

See you there!

[TAC]

It appears Norb Franz is a little confused!


"With Macomb County leading the way, Michigan's concealed weapons law was changed six years ago to require county gun boards - which previously could deny permits for virtually any reason - to issue a permit to any adult who passed a safety course and did not have a criminal record or mental illness.

Gun-owning motorists must remove the holster and store the firearm unloaded in the trunk or other place far from reach when behind the wheel.

Michigan is among 44 states where it's legal to carry a weapon in public with a permit. If the guns are holstered, they must be in plain view at all times, and legally purchased. Anyone purchasing a pistol must be at least 18 years old and register it with their local police department."

[khicks]

No the reporter was a little confused if you where to check opencarry.org you will find the red high lighted areas that have the correct information.
link below

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/14935.html

[crypto]

Exactly what I thought when I read the story. A few times I stopped reading and said, "what, I think this reporter is a bit confused here".

Too bad we can't get a story in a paper with correct info. Having someone who knows read it over might have helped. If his editor read it, he probably did not pick up the error. Still, nice to have the story in a paper at all is good.

[dougwg]

Gun-owning motorists must remove the holster and store the firearm unloaded in the trunk or other place far from reach when behind the wheel. [I think reporter meant to state this rule for those without concealed carry permits from Michigan or their home state - Mike S.]
Michigan is among 44 states where it's legal to carry a weapon in public with a permit. If the guns are holstered, they must be in plain view at all times, and legally purchased. [The reporter is conflating rules for folks with and without permits to conceal. if you have a conceal permit, you can conceal the holstered handgun. - Mike S.]

On the first stement it was made with the understanding that Ron does not have a CPL.

On the second I believe the reporter just got mixed up and it should read "without a permit".

[sullyxlh]

It's an was a OC article not a CC article,

What's it have to do with CC???
Facts seem correct regarding OC...

[dougwg]

It's not that cut and dry. This article was writen with 2 things in mind, OC without CPL.

You can OC without a CPL
You can OC with a CPL
You can CC with a CPL

When giving information they should but don't always give all pertinent info.

It's not really a big deal as most CPL holders know that they don't have to disarm when entering a vehicle.

[AimHigh]

The article does not mention a time for this event. It simply states that it's in the afternoon. Anyone know what time it starts? Ends?

How many are going?

I am at a weddding at 11am but hope it's over before this starts. I would love to go to this event.

[AimHigh]

Found it on the OC website. HERe is the info:

Where: Veterans Memorial Park.

Date: Saturday, August 16th, 2008

Time: 1:00 PM

Entrance is at Garbor Ave. and Campbell Road.


Look on mapquest.com to find the location but it's north of 11 mile and east of Van Dyke.

[TAC]

Be very careful in the City Of Warren. I think William Dwyer is anxious to take advantage of an event such as this to make a big political statement.

From the article:

Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer said Wednesday his department is aware of Saturday's picnic.

"We don't believe there are going to be any problems. We feel they certainly have a right to do what they're doing," he said.

Still, Warren police plan to monitor it. Dispatchers have been advised about the picnic and how to handle any 911 calls. Dwyer refused to divulge details of an operational order he has issued for officers Saturday.

"Hopefully it will be a peaceful picnic," he added.

[LivoniaDan]

Be very careful in the City Of Warren. I think William Dwyer is anxious to take advantage of an event such as this to make a big political statement.

From the article:

Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer said Wednesday his department is aware of Saturday's picnic.

"We don't believe there are going to be any problems. We feel they certainly have a right to do what they're doing," he said.

Still, Warren police plan to monitor it. Dispatchers have been advised about the picnic and how to handle any 911 calls. Dwyer refused to divulge details of an operational order he has issued for officers Saturday.

"Hopefully it will be a peaceful picnic," he added.I'll be willing to bet that Post-Picnic transportation of firearms will be looked at. Not sure how.... but....

[dougwg]

Be very careful in the City Of Warren. I think William Dwyer is anxious to take advantage of an event such as this to make a big political statement.

From the article:

Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer said Wednesday his department is aware of Saturday's picnic.

"We don't believe there are going to be any problems. We feel they certainly have a right to do what they're doing," he said.

Still, Warren police plan to monitor it. Dispatchers have been advised about the picnic and how to handle any 911 calls. Dwyer refused to divulge details of an operational order he has issued for officers Saturday.

"Hopefully it will be a peaceful picnic," he added.

Are you trying to say that he is going to arrest us all?

[TAC]

Are you trying to say that he is going to arrest us all?

No, I didn't imply that at all. I'm not really trying to say anything, other than it appears Dwyer is trying to say something. I'm familiar with his tactics from Farmington. Draw your own conclusions.

[dougwg]

If you're familiar with him, could you give some insight?

[TAC]

If you're familiar with him, could you give some insight?

I said I'm familiar with "his tactics", not him personally.

[dougwg]

could you give some insight into his "tactics" then

Geeez, it's kinda like pulling teeth....Give us some info man.

[PhotoTom]

Here's an article detailing the highlights of his career:

http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detroit/June-2008/The-Chiefs-Third-Act/

[TAC]

could you give some insight into his "tactics" then

Geeez, it's kinda like pulling teeth....Give us some info man.


He likes the attention of the media. I doubt he will interfere with your picnic plans, but should someone get out of line the very slightest, they will be made an example of, and it will be publicized state wide, if not nationally. In other words, do your thing, but don't flaunt it in his face.

[dougwg]

gotcha
I'll remind everyone to be on their best behavior.

Are you gunna stop by for a hot dog and some potato salad?

It's not required to OC btw.

[Jim Simmons]

I won't be there, but if there's any problems, give me a call. I'll be checking messages throughout the day.

[dougwg]

Will do. And thanks Jim!

[TAC]

gotcha
I'll remind everyone to be on their best behavior.

Are you gunna stop by for a hot dog and some potato salad?

It's not required to OC btw.

Not sure. I might swing buy and see if I can meet a few of you guys! I'm not against open carry, but I've only done it one day, so I'm a little nervous about it. I live in Macomb Township, and they're a little naive around here and tend to overreact to such things.

I lived in Warren for 16 years and I've seen countless news stories, videos, and I monitor the scanner radio, that clearly demonstrate their police force is not one to be played with. I'm getting too old to take a ride on the Taser and spend a night in jail. :|

[fbuckner]

Just make sure everyone who doesnt have a cpl stores the firearm right when they get back inthe car. I hear that Chief is a real peace of art.

[TAC]

Well...how did it go?

[Venator12]

Well...how did it go?
The picnic went very well. About 60 people total showed up throughout the day. Many just stopped to get some info and left. Channel 4 did a short segment tonight and the Macomb Daily had a reporter there as well.

I arrived early and couldn't believe that the police had set up their mobile command center in the parking lot. Intimidation, perhaps. We not only had the promised Sgt., but a Captain, the chief (out of uniform), and 3 squad cars including one stationed a block away with spotting glasses to watch us. Two squad cars parked on the lawn about 50 yards from us and just sat there, must have been boring duty for some officers. If the chief wastes money on something like this I'm surprised he still has a job.

I will say that I think the police were surprised by our behavior, couldn't believe that we looked just like a group of people having a nice cookout. The chief mentioned that we all seemed very well behaved. Did they think we would have horns and red eyes.

[PhotoTom]

Did they think we would have horns and red eyes.

You mean...you don't??

;)

[Imshootin]

I'm just kind of curious. Do you have a head count as to how many of those 60 people that showed up were open carrying? How many of the people that were open carrying had a CPL and didn't have to worrry about being harrassed by the police? Once again, just curious. I would guess you folks would have noted these figures. Please advise.

The picnic went very well. About 60 people total showed up throughout the day. Many just stopped to get some info and left. Channel 4 did a short segment tonight and the Macomb Daily had a reporter there as well.

I arrived early and couldn't believe that the police had set up their mobile command center in the parking lot. Intimidation, perhaps. We not only had the promised Sgt., but a Captain, the chief (out of uniform), and 3 squad cars including one stationed a block away with spotting glasses to watch us. Two squad cars parked on the lawn about 50 yards from us and just sat there, must have been boring duty for some officers. If the chief wastes money on something like this I'm surprised he still has a job.

I will say that I think the police were surprised by our behavior, couldn't believe that we looked just like a group of people having a nice cookout. The chief mentioned that we all seemed very well behaved. Did they think we would have horns and red eyes.

[dougwg]

I never really thought they were noteworthy. I would guess that a little more than half (that carried) had CPL.

A few, 2-3, were CC'ing

I don't think any of the women were packing at all, understandably. And I know NONE of the kids were.

I would say that out of the 50-75 people that were there, about 90% were OC'ing.

Note: I'm just guesstimating this time around but I will try to get some real numbers next time.

A note to everyone that didn't come out, you missed out on an awesome home made apple log pastry. :bowdown:

[Imshootin]

I don't think any of the women were packing at all, understandably.
I'm sure KayL would throw a monkey wrench into that statement,understandably.

[Done Deal]

I'm sure KayL would throw a monkey wrench into that statement,understandably.


Understandably, I was thinking the same thing....at least as far as the CC goes. But, it is also understandable why some folks might choose discretion as well.

[dougwg]

I'm sure KayL would throw a monkey wrench into that statement,understandably.

I mean understandably as is given the percentage of CPL holders that are women it was not unconceivable that there wouldn't be any female CPL holders there.

[Venator12]

I mean understandably as is given the percentage of CPL holders that are women it was not unconceivable that there wouldn't be any female CPL holders there.
Doug was busy with the T-shirt orders, so he was often busy. I was told that at least one woman there had a CPL, but wasn't OCing.

[Venator12]

I'm just kind of curious. Do you have a head count as to how many of those 60 people that showed up were open carrying? How many of the people that were open carrying had a CPL and didn't have to worrry about being harrassed by the police? Once again, just curious. I would guess you folks would have noted these figures. Please advise.
Not sure what you mean by CPL holders not having to worry about OCing. OC is legal without a permit. A CPL doesn't guarantee you won't get arrested or hassled for OCing. If an officer thinks OC is illegal he will arrest you regardless of a CPL. A CPL allows you more freedom to transport a handgun in a vehicle. It also makes an inadvertent covering of the gun legal, but if you don't have a CPL you need to be mindful of a shirt or coat covering your handgun.

[Knimrod]

I heard one of your picnic goers was disarmed and detained by the police.. What's the story with that?

[dougwg]

I heard one of your picnic goers was disarmed and detained by the police.. What's the story with that?


He was not detained at the picnic but rather on his way to the picnic.

He lives near by and was walking to the picnic with a full size .45 XD I believe.

He also had his dog on a leash.

Many factors added up to someone calling the police with a MWAG call.

Very short hair.
Wearing a "wife beater"
Large tattoo's
Large gun
Walking a pit bull type dog

NOT the best image to convey "Nice, peaceful, respectable, law abiding OC'er, but he was legal nonetheless.

Which is the reason for the call to the cops and the detainment. But as it should be, after checking out, he was released and sent on his way without further incident.

Note: This is second hand info but as far as I know, accurate.

Another note: The Captain that was there informed us that for the most part Warren PD only found out that OC was legal in Michigan Wednesday.:shocked:

All in all, it was a beautiful day and a great day for a picnic with a bunch of nice people that believe in freedom.

[bigwillie]

Story goes......http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/081708/loc_local03.shtml

[TAC]

I'm glad to hear it took place without any serious incidents. I wasn't able to make it, but thank you to all that were there to help further the awareness!

[fbuckner]

I have a question are the laws pertaining to OC less stringent that CC. Meaning do we who choose to carry CC have to jump thru more stringent criminal checks than OC. Is there something that would prevent joe blow from getting a CPL but he could otherwise own and OC carry a gun?

[Imshootin]

Not sure what you mean by CPL holders not having to worry about OCing. OC is legal without a permit. A CPL doesn't guarantee you won't get arrested or hassled for OCing. If an officer thinks OC is illegal he will arrest you regardless of a CPL. A CPL allows you more freedom to transport a handgun in a vehicle. It also makes an inadvertent covering of the gun legal, but if you don't have a CPL you need to be mindful of a shirt or coat covering your handgun.

I understand all the laws regarding OC and CC. My question was how many of those open carrying had a CPL and didn't have to worry about being harrassed by the police. My train of thought when asking that question was a statement earlier in the thread regarding the post picnic transportation of firearms being carefully looked at. I apologize for not making that clear. It appears there were no problems of that sort with the local men in blue.

[Leader]

I have a question are the laws pertaining to OC less stringent that CC. Meaning do we who choose to carry CC have to jump thru more stringent criminal checks than OC. Is there something that would prevent joe blow from getting a CPL but he could otherwise own and OC carry a gun?

No, not more stringent . But all you have to do to be able to OC is be able to BUY a gun. Being the legal owner is all that is required. No 8hr class, no fingerprints, no picture on a card.......

[TAC]

No, not more stringent . But all you have to do to be able to OC is be able to BUY a gun. Being the legal owner is all that is required. No 8hr class, no fingerprints, no picture on a card.......


They still take prints on your first Purchase Permit, don't they?

[Godfather JAM]

They still take prints on your first Purchase Permit, don't they?

I didn't get mine taken back in late 90's on my first purchse permit or "safety" inspection.

[mkls0]

They still take prints on your first Purchase Permit, don't they?


Nope no prints

[dougwg]

No, not more stringent . But all you have to do to be able to OC is be able to BUY a gun. Being the legal owner is all that is required. No 8hr class, no fingerprints, no picture on a card.......

Correct.
There isn't very many restriction just as a RIGHT should be.

[Made_in_Michigan]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/sec750.gif

[KayL]

Oh, very nice.......saving.

[fbuckner]

Im not asking for cute things to be added to an avatar collection re read my question and please give a valid answer. Basically if you cant carry with a CPL because you are under a doctors care for multiple personalities or being a shcizo you can OC. That just isnt right Not by any sense of the means no f-ing way.

[dougwg]

Have you read the law yet? If you are a schizo you can't own a handgun, therefore because you can't legally own one you can't carry it openly.

All of your fears seem to be based on not knowing the laws that we already have.

We don't need ANY MORE LAWS! What you describe are already covered.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(nfijnheczoloje45hl0udf45))/mileg.aspx?page=shortlinkdisplay&docname=mcl-28-422

FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 372 of 1927
***** 28.422 THIS SECTION IS AMENDED EFFECTIVE JANUARY 7, 2009: See 28.422.amended *****



28.422 License to purchase, carry, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

Sec. 2.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

(2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.

(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

(i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

(ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

(iii) Section 2950(9) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

(iv) Section 2950a(7) of 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

(v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

(vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed pursuant to section 6b(3) of chapter V of 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

(vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

(b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed pursuant to section 923 of title 18 of the United States Code, 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

(d) A felony charge against the person is not pending at the time of application.

(e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

(f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

(g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

(i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the basic pistol safety review board and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.

(4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols shall be executed in triplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Three copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority.

(5) Upon the sale of the pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol sold, together with the date of sale, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to the licensee. The licensee shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the sale of the pistol. The licensee shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days following the purchase of the pistol.

(6) One copy of the license shall be retained by the licensing authority as an official record for a period of 6 years. The other copy of the license shall be forwarded by the licensing authority within 48 hours to the director of the department of state police. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date of its issue.

(7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.

( 8 ) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:

(a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.

(b) Safe storage of pistols.

(c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.

(d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.

(9) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b.

(10) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (8) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.

(11) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(12) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (6).


History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927 ;-- CL 1929, 16750 ;-- Am. 1931, Act 333, Imd. Eff. June 16, 1931 ;-- Am. 1941, Act 112, Imd. Eff. May 21, 1941 ;-- Am. 1943, Act 51, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 1943 ;-- CL 1948, 28.422 ;-- Am. 1949, Act 170, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1957, Act 259, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957 ;-- Am. 1964, Act 216, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 1967, Act 158, Eff. Nov. 2, 1967 ;-- Am. 1968, Act 301, Eff. Nov. 15, 1968 ;-- Am. 1972, Act 15, Imd. Eff. Feb. 19, 1972 ;-- Am. 1986, Act 161, Eff. Aug. 1, 1986 ;-- Am. 1990, Act 320, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 219, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 220, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 1994, Act 338, Eff. Apr. 1, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 101, Imd. Eff. May 13, 2004
Constitutionality: The Michigan Court of Appeals held in Chan v City of Troy, 220 Mich App 376; 559 NW2d 374 (1997), that the citizen requirement, now MCL 28.422(3)(c), for a permit to purchase a pistol contained in MCL 28.422(3)(b) violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and is unconstitutional.
Popular Name: CCW
Popular Name: Concealed Weapons
Popular Name: Right to Carry
Popular Name: Shall Issue

[Garbo]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/sec750.gif

oh yeah, thats a nice one,, who is going to make that their avatar??

[Leader]

I agree Garbo... nice poster???

Easy Dougwg... Mister Buckner is just questioning how someone can be able to carry a handgun in Michigan *WITHOUT* taking classes on how to shoot, the law, safe storage,...etc. And at NO additional cost.
You MUST have that to carry concealed so you must NEED it to keep the average citizen from killing himself and all the rest of the people he comes in contact with.
The Anti's have preached this forever... it MUST be true.
Looking at states that don't have these rules, doesn't show any more problems then we have but * IT MUST BE UNSAFE*

Fred... Aren't you involved in teaching the CPL classes? Was this question just to get people thinking ????

[fbuckner]

No my question was since doctors are obligated under patient client privies. Couldnt joe blow buy a handgun and just carry Open? There are a few laws on the books that prevent CC but would allow a person to carry OC isnt there. They may not be a felon but maybe have pled out to a simple misdomenor. That is why I am asking ? Im not trying to get Dougs pants in a bunch but it seems they have been for days anyhow. Just a simple question

[Leader]

And all sarcasm aside the answer is yes.
If you can get a permit to purchase, you can openly carry in Michigan.

Now... that being said... I don't think you should need a permit to purchase or to carry in any fashon.
N.H. doesn't have any such laws & no more problems with guns then we do if as many.

[fbuckner]

I dont think you should have to jump thru hoops either. If your above board you should be able to carry whatever way you choose.

[dougwg]

The real problem is how do we get info on people that shouldn't be carrying much less owning any guns at all, yet still not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding citizen?

I guess we should pass a law wherein if you are a felon or a crazy you get your name posted in a national data base that LEO and retailers selling guns and average citizens can look you up to check you out.

Slippery slope if you ask me.....

[ghostrider]

The real problem is how do we get info on people that shouldn't be carrying much less owning any guns at all, yet still not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding citizen?

I guess we should pass a law wherein if you are a felon or a crazy you get your name posted in a national data base that LEO and retailers selling guns and average citizens can look you up to check you out.

Slippery slope if you ask me.....

That’s funny; I thought the real problem was getting the criminals to stop breaking the law. Isn’t that why we passed these laws in the first place? We needed more laws because the criminals were breaking the ones already in place. After all, passing a law preventing felons from having guns makes so much sense since those felons will be all too happy to turn in their guns now that they know it’s illegal for them to have those guns. Of course those nasty felons already know that they aren’t allowed to carry those guns (they already turned in) in a concealed manner, because that would be illegal. Maybe we should make more laws preventing them from having or carrying guns.

[dougwg]

lol

[fbuckner]

I have a neat list at work put out by Homeland security that list people and companies not to do business with. I just have this feeling there are more than a few that should be allowed to carry a stick let alone a gun. And the word Ignorant is such a strong word and offensive maybe i am unaware of all the laws but then again I never claimed to attend Cooley law school. I would ask that some refrain from being so rude. I am abrasive and when I find someone abrasive they must put a lot more off than myself and it isnt helping your crusade.

[dougwg]

The word ignorant just mean that you don't know about something. It's not offensive in anyway shape or form.

I will agree, it's a strong word though.

I have edited my post as seen here. link (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=266761&postcount=49) It says the same thing just in a different way.

P.S. wanna post or PM the list? :)

[ltdave]

Couldnt joe blow buy a handgun and just carry Open?

yes. the way the Constitution for the united States and the constitution for the state of Michigan say they can...

[Venator12]

I have a neat list at work put out by Homeland security that list people and companies not to do business with. I just have this feeling there are more than a few that should be allowed to carry a stick let alone a gun. And the word Ignorant is such a strong word and offensive maybe i am unaware of all the laws but then again I never claimed to attend Cooley law school. I would ask that some refrain from being so rude. I am abrasive and when I find someone abrasive they must put a lot more off than myself and it isnt helping your crusade.
I could say the same for some people that drive cars, operate machinery, and are police officers, what's you point.

[fbuckner]

The word ignorant just mean that you don't know about something. It's not offensive in anyway shape or form.

I will agree, it's a strong word though.

I have edited my post as seen here. link (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=266761&postcount=49) It says the same thing just in a different way.

P.S. wanna post or PM the list? :)


It would have to be emailed because it is very large.

[dougwg]

k

dougwg@comcast.net

[Imshootin]

k

dougwg@comcast.net

Should that be OK or is k some kind of cryptic message we're supposed to understand?

[dougwg]

It's short for Ok which is an acronym for All Correct. :wink:

[Imshootin]

Wouldn't that be AK?

[dougwg]

You have the whole internet at your finger tips yet you're asking me. :-|

You look up "ok" and I'm gunna get some sleep.

nite nite

[Brian]

I'll be willing to bet that Post-Picnic transportation of firearms will be looked at. Not sure how.... but....

How would one go from OC to CC with a CCW?

Just put on a jacket or some type of cover garment?

I know, I know, why would I want to OC with a CCW and all the controversy that goes with that question.

But just say I wanted to attend an event like this and CC on my way there, once arrived could I get out of my car remove my cover garment and OC until it was time to leave and then just put my cover garment back on?

[ghostrider]

How would one go from OC to CC with a CCW?

Just put on a jacket or some type of cover garment?

I know, I know, why would I want to OC with a CCW and all the controversy that goes with that question.

But just say I wanted to attend an event like this and CC on my way there, once arrived could I get out of my car remove my cover garment and OC until it was time to leave and then just put my cover garment back on?
Yep.

[dougwg]

If you are in your car, it's concealed already, even if it's on the dash board.

I have a CPL
I attanded the picnic
I drove my car
I had my sidearm @3:00 right side
OWB holster
1 shirt tucked in
Gun fully expossed

When I pulled into the parking lot I saw Ron talking with 2 LEO's.
I parked and got out of my car to see what they were talking about.
I got out of my car and walked over to them.

The Captian commented on me by saying, "Now see, I have to assume he has a CPL because he got out of his car with his gun".

He was a pretty cool, normal kinda guy. We talked several times Saturday.

[Jim Simmons]

I have a neat list at work put out by Homeland security that list people and companies not to do business with.

Can you post that list, or a link to it? These are the people and companies that I will make a point of doing business with, or for. Kinda like I hope I would have volunteered to help folks blacklisted by HUAC.

Kinda like I also buy banned books, even if I never intend to read them.

[dougwg]

Can you post that list, or a link to it? These are the people and companies that I will make a point of doing business with, or for. Kinda like I hope I would have volunteered to help folks blacklisted by HUAC.

Kinda like I also buy banned books, even if I never intend to read them.


I already asked that in this thread. He said it was to big to post or PM and said that it would have to be e-mailed.

I posted my e-mail 2 days ago and still nothing. Although he has made around 10 posts in that time.

[fbuckner]

Well the list is password protected here at work so that must mean I wont be posting them. The list was givin to our parent company whic is German owned. Jim if you want to do business with companies of people who have ties to terrorist find it on your own. i want no part of someon making a name for themselves helping out a jihad scumbag. doug I know you asked and i looked into it if I could have I would have emailed it to you. Thanks for the short and paying attention to my post count it really means alot to me. in short get the next size up hanes they are not so snug.

[dougwg]

Calm down Francis :)

I just thought it was funny that you said that you have this neat little list of "bad guys". Then when I asked for you to post it, you offered that if was to large of a list to post and suggested that it possibly could be e-mailed. Then, when offered an e-mail address to send it.......nothing......crickets chirping...... :-?

After 2 days it is common to think that possibly a person has not been online to respond so I squashed that thought by checking if you had been online. This was after Jim made the same request. I figured he must have missed my post requesting the list. Thats all, not a big deal.

Thanks for the advise on my underwear. I didn't know you cared so much. ;-)

[fbuckner]

LOLnobody likes wedgies

[dougwg]

Wrong, EVERYONE loves wedgies..... unless they are on the receiving end of one. ;)

[fbuckner]

http://www.funrestarea.com/pages/snl_robert_deniro.shtml

[dougwg]

Deniro rocks!

[who dat]

http://www.funrestarea.com/pages/snl_robert_deniro.shtml
One of the few items I've ever forwarded. Great!

[Jim Simmons]

Jim if you want to do business with companies of people who have ties to terrorist find it on your own.

I really don't. But if the US government, using criteria that they keep secret, makes a decision, using a process that is unknown and cannot be challenged or reviewed, to place a person or a company on a blacklist and say, "This is a bad person. Shun him." they get no play from me. They need to accuse the person or firm of committing a crime, go before a real court -- not one of those Gitmo kangaroos, but a real court with a real judge (and where applicable, a real jury) -- and prove it. Our government has proven repeatedly that it cannot be trusted to accurately gather intel, process it, and then apply such labels fairly and objectively -- and that inability goes back to WWI. Bush just does it better (or worse, depending on your sarcasm level) than most.

If the Homeland Security goons can put Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) and Ted Kennedy on the no-fly list, then they can sure get this other list wrong, too.

[ltdave]

yeah but Jim, KENNEDY SHOULD be on the no fly list...

[Samurai Jack]

yeah but Jim, KENNEDY SHOULD be on the no fly list...

and the no drive list too :o