United We Stand, Divided We Fall

[dougwg]

I see this as no different than when the "Evil Black Rifle" crowd sought the approval of the hunters (Elmer Fudd's).

They preached that we should all stand together, brothers in arms.

I think it VERY hypocritical, elitist and bigoted for the black rifle crowd, Hunters and the Concealed Carrier's to shun the OC crowd.

I also find it funny that some hunters think they have a Right to a hunting rifle. No where in the Bill of Rights does it mention Hunting.

What if the "Military Weapons" guys said that we should ban all hunting arms?

The artical of Jim Zumbo

Assault Rifles For Hunters?
As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."


This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

We now have the Concealed Carry and Evil Black Rifle crowds condemning the rightful act of Open Carry.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

I ask that if you wish others to stand with you in defense of the rights that you hold dear, that you also stand in the defense of others as it pertains to the rights that they hold dear.

[Kimberguy1371]

That article make me sick coming from a gun owner. As i'm sure most of you who have read anything i have written, know i'm par of the OC crowd. I also love my Black rifles. I respect your method of carrying, and you methods for hunting, and if I disagree with you or not, you will always hve my support when it comes to ALL firearm rights!

[HK USP]

What happened to Zumbo? after his recant he sort of disappeared.

[dougwg]

Maybe he bled out after shooting himself in the foot. :clap:

[Made_in_Michigan]

Lets not forget that early Supreme court decision (which gave us the "EVIL sawed off shotgun") That the 2nd amendment ONLY protects military weapons as one would use to depose a corrupt government, NOT hunting arms... Lets see you depose any modern government with a 3 shot 12 gauge pump...

[seif5034]

That article make me sick coming from a gun owner. As i'm sure most of you who have read anything i have written, know i'm par of the OC crowd. I also love my Black rifles. I respect your method of carrying, and you methods for hunting, and if I disagree with you or not, you will always hve my support when it comes to ALL firearm rights!


Amen brother!

[skoltuniak]

I'm blown away by the ignorance that is illustrated in this article. Is this a joke? "Terrorist" rifles? Seriously?

Well, Mr. Zumbo, biased, ignorant, idiots, such as yourself, have no business in journalism (I know that there is no shortage of them though). Brainwash your readers by using the term "Terrorist", I don't even know what to say.

[Joeywhat]

I'm blown away by the ignorance that is illustrated in this article. Is this a joke? "Terrorist" rifles? Seriously?

Well, Mr. Zumbo, biased, ignorant, idoits, such as yourself, have no buisness in journalism (I know that there is no shortge of them though). Brainwash your readers by using the term "Terrorist", I don't even know what to say.

He has no business holding a gun, either...as far as I'm concerned.

[who dat]

I see this as no different than when the "Evil Black Rifle" crowd sought the approval of the hunters (Elmer Fudd's).

They preached that we should all stand together, brothers in arms.

I think it VERY hypocritical, elitist and bigoted for the black rifle crowd, Hunters and the Concealed Carrier's to shun the OC crowd.

I also find it funny that some hunters think they have a Right to a hunting rifle. No where in the Bill of Rights does it mention Hunting.

What if the "Military Weapons" guys said that we should ban all hunting arms?

The artical of Jim Zumbo



We now have the Concealed Carry and Evil Black Rifle crowds condemning the rightful act of Open Carry.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

I ask that if you wish others to stand with you in defense of the rights that you hold dear, that you also stand in the defense of others as it pertains to the rights that they hold dear.

Being as you are all over the CC crowd that doesn't care for OC, I'm surprised that you would post this crap. This letter is old, and since then, JZ has recanted his position, taken tutelage your buddy Ted Nugent. He has evolved.

Following is a portion of his biography:

My career moved along nicely. I had written 23 books on hunting and fishing, was on a nationwide seminar circuit, and had written about 2,000 magazine articles, and I had a TV show, Jim Zumbo Outdoors. Then, on February 16, 2007, I wrote a blog in my Outdoor Life page about assault rifles that created an instant firestorm among America's gun owners. Within a few days, I was radioactive in the industry. There was an editorial in the Washington Post that was carried by several hundred newspapers around the country, an editorial in the New York Times, a satire about me on the Comedy Channel, and countless articles by gun and hunting writers. Less than a week after the firestorm started, most of my sponsors pulled out of my TV show, and the editors who I worked for backed off. Todd Smith, editor-in-chief of Outdoor Life magazine, asked me for my resignation, and I was suddenly without employment. I was done writing, and my TV show was on hiatus. Many of the companies that supported me in the past issued severance statements with me on their websites, as did shooting and firearms organizations such as the NRA and NSSF. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation was the only organization to express a positive statement on their website.

Ted Nugent immediately came to my rescue, and I flew to his ranch in Texas to learn about the so-called black rifles. Ted wanted to use my ignorance as an example of an avid hunter who was unaware of the popularity and uses of these firearms. He taught me a great deal. I went on to work with the Second Amendment Foundation, denounced a statement by an anti-gun senator and exposed his strategy to continually work his flawed words in the Congressional Record, and attended a three day assault rifle course, which I immensely enjoyed. I wrote about that experience in an article in SWAT magazine.

On July 3, 2007 my TV show went back on the air, and some sponsors began coming back. Over the last few years I've been focusing on wounded soldiers who suffered severe injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan, taking them on all-expense paid hunting trips. I'm doing that even more so now, with several hunts with our military heroes last year, this year, and many more planned in the future.

[Fred]

It looks like Mr. Zumbo saw the error in his ways. He recanted and has since moved on to a very admirable pursuit. I say let's all stick together.

[skoltuniak]

I'm blown away by the ignorance that is illustrated in this article. Is this a joke? "Terrorist" rifles? Seriously?

Well, Mr. Zumbo, biased, ignorant, idiots, such as yourself, have no business in journalism (I know that there is no shortage of them though). Brainwash your readers by using the term "Terrorist", I don't even know what to say.
If he is genuine in admitting his error, I retract my statement. I just hope that it is not just a facade to get his income back.

[KayL]

....I just hope that it is not just a facade to get his income back.
Ted would have called him on it immediately.

[who dat]

If he is genuine in admitting his error, I retract my statement. I just hope that it is not just a facade to get his income back.
Everybody makes mistakes. The ones who learn from them usually end up stronger in their beliefs. I think he may be one of them.

All it takes verify stuff like this is a little search. I get very frustrated when people post old news for nefarious purposes when contrary information is readily available.

[dougwg]

I posted this to show the parallels between the two.

I posted this to show how the stance of some is illogical and bigoted.

I posted this to get some people to think about their words and actions.

I hope I was successful.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

[mitunnelrat]

I get very frustrated when people post old news for nefarious purposes when contrary information is readily available.

I didn't get that impression from his posting this article at all. When you put it in context with the rest of his post it illustrates that there are divisions among gun owners that shouldn't be there.

Zumbo's article was widely spread, and exposed a weakness within the gun culture to its opponents. His reversal received little to no media attention, rendering it ineffective in mitigating the damage of his original comments. In fact, I believe DD said it best here:
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18116&page=2&highlight=Zumbo
Zumbo blew it and there is no fixing the damage. He will be quoted forever.

Unfortunately for DD, he is quite opinionated, which makes him easy to quote as well.:poke: and allows me to exemplify the hypocrisy and divisions among gun owners. Since he has also said:
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27434&page=2
Ah yes....another reason to advocate open carry....everybody needs to look down the muzzle of a firearm being pointed at you (great training).

But, since it was mighty hot....standing out in the cooling rain (albiet in cuffs) must have been sooooooo refreshing.

Even though the young officer maybe over did things a bit....considering all you went through, can you blame him for wondering why anybody would want to go through that by open carry in a mall....especially if they had a CPL?

Wow....what an adventure.....

I'll pass....thanks.

Substitute: "black rifles" for the first "open carry"; "owning a black rifle" for "open carry in a mall", and; "sporting arm" for "CPL" in the above quote and the duality becomes obvious.

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - By Pastor Niemoller
As doug said: United We Stand, Divided We Fall

[dougwg]

Now where is that :knocked one outa the park: smiley

[Quaamik]

I have no problem with open carry and have done so (though rarely). I personally choose not to as I think there is little tactical advantage to it and I usually wish to avoid potential hassle.

I do think it is very unwise of us (gun owners of any stripe) to criticize OC where it is legal. Critiqueing(sp) it is different.

[Done Deal]

I have no problem with open carry and have done so (though rarely). I personally choose not to as I think there is little tactical advantage to it and I usually wish to avoid potential hassle.

I do think it is very unwise of us (gun owners of any stripe) to criticize OC where it is legal. Critiqueing(sp) it is different.


And critique we will, this is a forum for exactly that...discussing the issues.

BTW: I own a "black rifle" which I use primarily for hunting and...still believe that Zumbo the Dumbo really stuck his foot in his mouth on the quote heard round the gun community.

But, there are also people that just don't understand the point of discussion and, because that is the case....we will never be totally united. To believe it is possible is nothing but a dream....