Firing Line blew it....

[Karl]

My wife didn't grow up around guns and was/is a bit nervous (sp?) about them. Seeing me carry every day and everywhere helped a lettle. Seeing all the rifles out and about at deer season or when we go stump hunting in the woods up north helped too. So when she said that she might want to learn more about firearms I was elated. Went to Firingline where I took my CPL class and lo and behold they had a ladies niite on wedsdays. Talked to one of the guys there and he said it would be perfect for my wife. He said they get initial instruction on the operation of weapons and safety then hit the range and if they need help someone is there for them. On top of all that it's run by women. Perfect! I signed my wife and her buddy up at $14.00 apiece and on the 8th they went.. What a joke. Showed the class a blob and said "that's what a sight picture should look liike ' and that's about it. When my wife asked about what the various parts are, how does it work etc. she was told "You get that in the CPL class, we have to get people on the range." What kind of crap is that? My wifle is not a dumb woman, she runs a brain injury hospital for cryin out loud. This was sold to me as a class/nite for beginning ladies, a CPL class is not the place to begin to learn basic functions. My wifle and her buddy didn't even know how to load a magazine. The figured it out, shot 2 round apiece and spilit. The instructors might be champian shooters but as far as I'm concerned they are loser instructors. If women are going to be part of our armed future the maybe they should be instructed and introduced properly rather than trying to impress everyone with how good the instructors are. What a wasted oppertunity , Thanks Firingline.

[dominus]

Take them yourself, and teach them. I teach all my female friends myself, I don't trust others to do it, even if they are "certified" or whatever. I know my friends better.

[dougwg]

It's generally known that it's better to have someone else teach your "wife".

GF's might be different though.

http://www.corneredcat.com/

Karl, I'm sorry your wife had a bad experience at FL. Might I suggest Top Gun in Taylor. They always seem very helpful to new comers in the sport.

[KayL]

....On top of all that it's run by women. ....
Who were the women instructors? Or any instructors names?

[Karl]

I know it was a rant. Poorly spelled rant at that. I think the name my wife gave me was Diane but I will check and post tomorrow morning> I know who she's talking about as this young lady spoke at my CPL class breifly also. Good shooter, IDPA champion I beleive.

[KayL]

Yes, I know Diane and her husband. They do shoot IDPA. Were there any other instructors?

[RSF]

LOL.

I had 2 new female shooters walkout of that shoot of recent for the same reasons and dianes talking down to them. one was also stopped going to IDPA shoots due to Diane and her talking down to her.

to bad.

[fbuckner]

Bottom line dont let one bad experience poil it for you or her. Go in and talk to Don or Tommy they are reasonable and if you do they will respect that more than anything you post on this board.

[johnzilla]

Bottom line dont let one bad experience poil it for you or her. Go in and talk to Don or Tommy they are reasonable and if you do they will respect that more than anything you post on this board.

I agree.

As far as I know none of the Ladies' Night instructors are managers or owners/co-owners of the store. If I was there and had a bad experience I would never have just split, I would have talked straight to one of the managers. They don't get all of my business for various reasons but they do get a lot, and based on my experiences at the store they would have made it right.

[wishn-i-was-fishn]

I am sorry to hear about your negative experience.

We regularly offer an NRA First Steps Pistol Class at Fenton Lakes Sportsman Club. This 3-4 hour class cost only $30 and includes everything a student will need incluiding use of a pistol and ammo (.22cal).
The course covers firearms safety, pistol & revolver components, how to load your handgun, fundamentals of shooting, ammunition, possible ammunition malfunctions and how to identify and deal with them, one hour of range time, handgun cleaning (hands-on cleaning exercise), sport shooting and safe storage. Upon completion students receive a certificate suitable for framing.

Class size is small for good student to instructor ratio.

This class is perfect for anyone new or inexperienced. We have students from 10 years old to 70+. We regularly get very positive feedback from students.

Send your wife & her friend to us, she will not regret the experience.

Advance registration is required. Seating is very limited. Class is on an indoor range. Next class dates are Nov. 9 and Dec. 14. If you are interested contact me for registration information.

[Fiddler]

Sorry to hear that. K&M Tactical Response Academy and the Livingston Gun Club also offer a full schedule of women's classes and shooting events. K&M Academy specializes in instruction for women, and we are having a shoot this Saturday at LGC. More details can be viewed here. http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?p=285695#post285695

You can also visit the K&M http://www.kmtacticalresponseacademy.com and LGC http://www.livingstongunclub.org/club/
websites for more information on upcoming classes and shoots.

[Karl]

Thank you for all the replies and info. I'll show this to my wife so she can see what type of folks are in this community of sorts. I do want to say that I plan on addressing this with the mgmt at FL, if this is for experienced shooters, great, I'm glad the ladies have a chance to shoot and get together but sell it that way. Also please understand that I was not speaking to anyones character at all. I'm sure everyone involved is an upstanding person. Training is not easy. I'm a retired Army NCO where I trained trainers. It's just not everyones cup of tea. KayL, there were three other range officers for a total of four. 32 customers/shooters,

[DodgeBoy]

Karl,
My fiance went to this at the firing line awile ago. She had an awesome time. One of the instructors (Robin) was extremely nice, and worked with her throughout the time in the range. Any idea what the names of the instructors were that taught the class?
-Kyle

[gun girl]

So sorry your wife had a bad experience, but for you not being there yourself, you are only going on what she is saying! I have been twice to ladies night at the FiringLine, and plan on going back, and had an AMAZING time, and NOONE made me feel like they didn't have time for me. Also, ladies night isn't to learn all about the gun, your wife should have checked into it a little better if that is what she was looking for. The class is only a class for ladies to learn about gun safety before they go out onto the range. To get used to the way a gun shoots. They do have private lessons if your wife needs them. Also, can't you explain parts of a gun to her?

The ladies there at the FiringLine are very professional. I as well as hundreds of other women who take took the class, have nothing to complain about, and if we did, we most certainly wouldn't have left without confronting it with the instructors, or mngt. Sorry to say, but that is your wifes fault. They explain every time how to load the mag...she should have paid better attention. She should have filled out the questionaire they provide, and dealt with this like an adult instead of running home crying claiming that she didn't get special attention. There are 30+ women.....they cannot give us one-on-one attention. BUT, like I said, there are private lessons she can get, and she can have all the attention on her, and I am positive they would answer her questions. They are good people there at the FiringLine, and to come on a forum to bash someone's business is childish.

FiringLine fan!!!

[dominus]

and to come on a forum to bash someone's business is childish.

FiringLine fan!!!


What about someone's first post being to defend that business?

[dougwg]

thats what I was thinking too

[TFin04]

and to come on a forum to bash someone's business is childish.
You're not fooling anybody, Jane Bond.

[snakebyte]

Kinda sounds like she works there... :?

Or maybe is a part owner :razz:

:whistle: Sorry, carry on...

[Rara]

I've never dealt much w/ the ladies at Firing Line, but I've talked w/ Tommy and Grant a decent bit, including a class with Tommy, and they are both really great to deal with. A friend of mine that spends a lot of time there, and "sorta" works there is Kevin, a younger black gentleman, and he is an excellent teacher. If he's not tied up helping a bunch of people, he is generally more than happy to step out to the range with new shooters and help them out. He may not be an IDPA champ, but he's a good shooter, and he is rock solid on the fundamentals, and can really drive them home with someone learning while not sounding condescending at all. Just know ahead of time that he'll try to talk everyone into a 1911 ;)

btw, I haven't talked w/ Kevin in a couple months, so hopefully he is still hanging out over there, lol. I've known him for a few years though, we both used to work together at the same automotive OEM in engineering.

[Karl]

My wife didn't "come home crying" . She left because she was not enjoying herself and without that, what's the point? Secondly, if you would have read my OP you would have seen that what I truely disliked was the way it was sold to me. I said if it was for expierienced shooters, GREAT. I'm all for that for the ladies. Just sell it that way. I have dealt with the other guys at FL and some are OK some are not. Just like everywhere else in the world. As for your running home crying comment and whatever else you think is childish, I really don't give a damn what you think, my guess is you are the wife/GF of one of the guys that works there. Alot of high horses in there and you seem to be riding one of them.

[Trebor]

I haven't been to any of the Women's Night's at The Firing Line so I can't say anything specifc about how they run their event.

I will say though that I've ran or assisted at many Women On Target clinics where we've had a lot of new shooters to work with and there is never enough time to cover everything. This kind of event is really only a very brief intro to firearms and is primarly geared towards getting people to actually try shooting for the first time.

An into class like this is what it is. A chance for people to try a gun under supervision with some minimal instruction. It's not the NRA Basic Pistol class by any means.

[rodneykazz]

Sorry about the experince your wife had at the FL. Take the advice of the other members and get her in some place that will teach her the basics of firearms safety and use. Don't let this bad experince keep her off the range or away from firearms.:twocents:

[RAO]

Frankly I am amazed by the initial comments. I was there and it was not as portrayed. My experience with firing line has been great.

Initially, there was a 45 minute class which included basic safety instruction and operation of the gun including how to load a magazine to the extent that the flat end of the bullet goes to the back of the magazine. In all fairness the "how to load" instructions came after the "experienced" ladies were allowed to go to the range. This came at about the 15 minute mark of the 45 minute classroom session. I have my cpl and I stayed for the extra class time. I always pick up something that makes it worthwhile. If she left with the experts at the 15 minute mark then she missed out. Her choice. Also if she went with the "experts" then she should have known how to load a mag before hand.

As I stayed in the class i can't directly say how much assistance was on the range. But during the "beginner's" practice time the instructors were available and actively helping the shooters. I was the last one to leave and they were with me to the end.

I certainly don't want to turn this into a confrontation. I am truly sorry that the class did not meet the individual's expectation. I would hope that she not become discouraged and pursue additional training. Also I have always found Don to bend over backwards to help a customer and would suggest she contact him directly. I don't think that any class can be all things to all people but I would not hesitate to go again and recommend it to friends.

[fbuckner]

Like I said talk to Don. This program was designed to give the ladies a comfortable atmosphere to learn in. It isnt a money grab or a recruiting tool it is women teaching women to inspire more women to not be afraid and learn firearms are not bad things. I would give them a second chance before going elsewhere they are good people who stick their neck out for folks.

[RifleGuy]

I see that Gun Girl has not followed through after her first volley; I wonder if she (he?:whistle: ) hit the posts for the sole purpose of defending a venture she is partnered to?
I hope she will return to further participate in this discussion, and others as well; an increased representation of the ladies viewpoint would be a nice addition to MGO.

[fbuckner]

RG - I dont blame her for defending them they are a good bunch of guys. I enjoy going down there and I dont work for them.

[Karl]

I'm not bashing everyone at FL. There are some good people there. This particular thing was near and dear and I expected more I guess. The fact of the matter is,that although I was trying to avoid it, I will be taking my lovely wife stump hunting but we are going to start at the work bench with disassembly/assembly, function of individual parts, etc. Then out to the woods to my favorite shooting stump. I just thought it might be better if she got the basics from someone other than her spouse. Poeple tend to listen better if they pay for it. Back to FL. I was angry about the sale of one class. Period. Not the whole shop/range. They do have some good people there. They also have some that are riding around on some very tall horses. Same way it is in almost every gun shop. I expect it when I walk thru any gun shop door and am pleasently suprised when I don't find it. If the thing with my wife was a fluke or whatever, GREAT. I'm glad for the ladies that attend those nites and enjoy them. Just sell them for what they are.

P.S. Thanks to everyone who responded. Yes even those who disagreed with me. :grin:

[RifleGuy]

I have never been to the Firing Line, but based upon the largely positive reviews here I shall certainly make a point of stopping in for a visit.
I wasn't passing judgement on the Firing Line, or even Gun Girl, but I am disappointed that Gun Girl made but a single post and seemingly disappeared. Again, I hope she will return and continue to contribute.

[sse]

FWIW - I, too, took a "renewal" course and was seperated from $25 for about two hours of totally worthless BS. But I did get a certificate.

[Combat Commander]

FWIW - I, too, took a "renewal" course and was seperated from $25 for about two hours of totally worthless BS. But I did get a certificate.

This is not required by law so you also have a worthless BS certificate.

[sse]

This is not required by law so you also have a worthless BS certificate.
That would be correct. :banghead:

[fbuckner]

To be honest other than the one neeed to get our CPL's they are all BS certificates. I dont care ifthey came from that joint in nevada or the TDI. They dont mean a thing in the real world I mean really do they. Other than another bragging right in a signature line. Big deal

[sse]

To be honest other than the one neeed to get our CPL's they are all BS certificates. I dont care ifthey came from that joint in nevada or the TDI. They dont mean a thing in the real world I mean really do they. Other than another bragging right in a signature line. Big deal
Not sure what your point is, but for those who carry, good training is worth every bit of one's time and expense.

[Combat Commander]

Not sure what your point is, but for those who carry, good training is worth every bit of one's time and expense.


Well said, I was just busting your B***S.
Certificates also look good on the wall,and you can brag to all of your buddys too.:lol:

[fbuckner]

I agree any training is good. But the paper they give you doesnt mean a thing other than like CC said to hang on the wall and look pretty.

[shooter45acp]

Silver Bullet Firearms is a good place to get the first steps training

[dhrith]

Stack of papers might come in handy in a court of law when the fancy pants lawyer starts trying to question your knowledge/capability. ....might also portray you as a "gun nut" or "rambo"... depends on how intelligent and articulate you are with them. For me I'd rather have them then not although I don't get all caught up in them as if they truly mean much.... kind of like those college degrees....too many jackasses waving them around like it proves their intelligence/capability.

Oh forgot to mention, I generally consider the FL guys pretty good to go. I'd chalk it up as a bad day or something off the wall adding up to cause the event either as it happened or was perceived. Go in talk with them and I think they'd square you away with another class or something to keep you happy.

[gun girl]

I am not a gf/or wife , nor am I a partner....just a faithful customer. I wrote what I wrote to stick up for people who I know are good people and to see them get bashed by one person who was judging something on hearsay, was upsetting to me. I didn't mean to come on here and offend anyone, so sorry if I did! Hopefully you will give FiringLine a second thought and maybe take it as you misunderstood them as opposed to coming on here and saying they give bad classes and have "loser" instructors. As much as you keep saying you didn't bash them, or people.....you should re-read your first post, cause you most definatley did> Anyhow, hopefully your wife will go back and give them a try again, I will guarantee she would have fun. I love ladies night, and think they are great for women to feel comfortable shooting without feeling uneasy of experienced shooters maybe intimidating them as they shoot.

Oh, and by the way..... I ride my own high horse! LOL

[fbuckner]

Do they still drop the iron curtains when the ladies are shooting? There is a good story behind that.

[gun girl]

They do. What is your good story???