How'd the Ann Arbor picnic go?

[pilotguy]

How was it?:)

[dougwg]

Went great!

2 LEO's stopped by, we BS'ed about all kinds of stuff.
Talked to some news paper guys.
Had a hotdog.

Then we went for a walk, right down town with all the coffee shops and such.

No problems at all.

The LEO's let us know that IF they got a MWAG call they would show up....after we left the park and went for out walk, I didn't see any cops for the rest of the time we were in AA (approx 3 more hours)...so I guess NO ONE CALLED 911

[fbuckner]

Congrats guys! I am really suprised considering it was Ann Arbor

[ChrisBWJ]

Wish I could have joined you guys!!! Too busy catching fish in Northern Minnesota in the rain this weekend.

But I'll be there at the next one!

[Ricebrnr]

http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/news/index.ssf/2008/10/attendees_at_ann_arbor_picnic.html

Attendees at Ann Arbor picnic pack more than their lunches
by Tom Gantert | The Ann Arbor News
Monday October 13, 2008, 7:11 AM

Eliyahu Gurfinkel | The Ann Arbor News
Randy Graham of Burton tends to the grill while wearing his Glock handgun at a picnic at Wheeler Park in Ann Arbor on Sunday afternoon. The picnic was hosted by proponents of the open carrying of firearms.
In many ways, it was a typical picnic on a beautiful Sunday in an Ann Arbor park - hot dogs, potato chips and hamburgers.

Except for the fact it was BYOG.

That's BYOG as in bring your own gun.

For Julian Lizzio, a 21-year-old University of Michigan student, that meant packing a nickel-plated Colt .38-caliber pistol.

Lizzio helped organize a rally for about 50 people at Wheeler Park at Sunday at 1 p.m. in favor of exercising their legal right to openly wear a firearm in public. About 20 people wore weapons in holsters. In Michigan, it's legal to carry a loaded pistol openly, but a concealed weapons permit is needed to carry a gun that's hidden.


Eliyahu Gurfinkel | Ann Arbor News
Julian Lizzio, a University of Michigan senior, talks to a reporter during a picnic at Ann Arbor 's Wheeler Park that he helped organize to promote the open carrying of handguns."When people say, 'Why do you carry a gun?' I'm a little speechless," Lizzio said. "Why wouldn't you?"
Sgt. Ed Stuck said Ann Arbor police received one call Sunday from a citizen reporting there were people in Wheeler Park with guns.

Stuck said the city attorney's office ruled that it is legal to have a weapon in a holster in the open. Many of the advocates Sunday refused to take their weapon out of their holster when asked.

"The only time you draw that weapon out in public is if you use it," said Brian Jeffs of Bath. "That's why you won't see anyone handling their gun."

Doug Holloway made the trip to Wheeler Park from his home in Westland. Most of the people who attended were members of the OpenCarry.org, a national organization formed in 2004, to promote the right to carry a gun in the open.

Holloway said he carries his Sig Sauer 4SW handgun for protection.

When asked when he felt threatened enough to need a gun, Holloway said last winter when a man was "aggressively" approaching him outside a party store.

"He asked me for change and he kept getting closer and closer," said Holloway, who was unarmed at the time. "He had his hands down by his side. I just told him to back up and stay away. He backed up."

Holloway said if he had been openly carrying his handgun, the man never would have approached him.

Lizzio said he was caught weaponless two years ago in Ann Arbor when he was chased by a drunken homeless person waving a broken bottle.

"Muggers can say, 'This looks a little riskier than I would like,'" he said.

Lizzio says he does not carry his gun to school, but feels his group would win in court if he challenged U-M over its ban on carrying weapons.

Jeffs has been a regular at the gun picnics since they started in Brighton last December. He said four people showed up openly armed at the McDonalds in Brighton and "never had a problem."

But the open gun advocates have their tales of harassment.

Jeffs said he was kicked out of Barnes and Noble in East Lansing on Saturday for openly carrying his .357 Magnum revolver at a Ted Nugent book signing. Jeffs said he demanded a refund for Nugent's book.

Jeffs said he thinks he could go his whole life without needing a firearm for protection. He carries it because it is his right. "I'm sick and tired of being told what to do by a police state," Jeffs said.

Sometimes it is the police. Other times, it is just business owners, as Lizzio found out Sunday before the picnic.

Lizzio went into Main Street Party Store to buy items for the picnic wearing his gun on his hip.

The manager told him not to do it anymore.

Dave Breher, manager at Main Street Party Store, said he'd rather give up the money if an armed robber came into the store than risk a gunfight happening in his store.
"It makes me uncomfortable," Breher said. "Why would anyone carry a firearm except to use it?"

"But you got to remember," Lizzio said. "No guns. No money. ... And I spend a lot of money there." When Breher was told he could lose a gun-toting customer, he said, "That's fine."

Tom Gantert can be reached at tgantert@annarbornews.com or 734-994-6701.

[TFin04]

I'm in favor of the OC cause. I think anything we can do to show gun ownership in a good light is a victory.

However, time and time again the quotes these people say are just hurting the idea. Can't OC.org make up at least some scripted lines or only allow certain people to speak to the press? Any gains made by the demonstration are quickly squashed by the resulting articles.

Just my opinion.

[Garbo]

Ann Arbor was the last place I thouht you guys would not get harassed.

[dougwg]

TFin04, I was mis-quoted...... but yes I agree with you.

Garbo, I was suprised also. The 2 officers were very cool. We bs'ed for atleast 2 hours.

I wish more of you guys would come out to the picnic's and see what doesn't happen.

[fbuckner]

TFin04, I was mis-quoted...... but yes I agree with you.

Garbo, I was suprised also. The 2 officers were very cool. We bs'ed for atleast 2 hours.

I wish more of you guys would come out to the picnic's and see what doesn't happen.

It was a nice day for it but my wife had some stuff she wanted to see happen around here. To much work to be done before the snow flys.

[CnA]

I would of been there, but this was a bow hunters dream weekend with the great weather.

Bagged a nice doe 12 yards away broadside :banana:

[dominus]

I'm also impressed by the fact that it was Ann Arbor. This was the only part of the article that stuck out in my mind as a little... eh..:


Jeffs said he thinks he could go his whole life without needing a firearm for protection. He carries it because it is his right. "I'm sick and tired of being told what to do by a police state," Jeffs said.

Not the kind of statement that can help the cause.

[dougwg]

Pistols Make for Picnic in the Park
Picnickers advocate for open carry by openly carrying
By Dave Askins
October 13, 2008 (http://annarborchronicle.com/2008/10/13/pistols-make-for-picnic-in-the-park/)

[dougwg]

It was a nice day for it but my wife had some stuff she wanted to see happen around here. To much work to be done before the snow flys.
I understand Honey do's, hopefully you can make it out to one in the future.


I would of been there, but this was a bow hunters dream weekend with the great weather.

Bagged a nice doe 12 yards away broadside :banana:
Hunting>*

Congrats!


I'm also impressed by the fact that it was Ann Arbor. This was the only part of the article that stuck out in my mind as a little... eh..:


Jeffs said he thinks he could go his whole life without needing a firearm for protection. He carries it because it is his right. "I'm sick and tired of being told what to do by a police state," Jeffs said.

Not the kind of statement that can help the cause.

What he ment by that is LEO and such making up the law as they see fit.
I do understand what you mean though.

[Raspberrysurprise]

With enough notice and if it's resonably close to the EUP I'll try and show up to at least one picnic. I'd have gone to the Ann Arbor one if I'd been able to afford it and get the day off since I have no fixed schedule.

[Kimber45]

I'm also impressed by the fact that it was Ann Arbor. This was the only part of the article that stuck out in my mind as a little... eh..:


Jeffs said he thinks he could go his whole life without needing a firearm for protection. He carries it because it is his right. "I'm sick and tired of being told what to do by a police state," Jeffs said.

Not the kind of statement that can help the cause.

This from an Obama supporter who doesn't care if the state tells him what kind of gun he can own and how many rounds it can hold?

[dougwg]

Not here please.

[Done Deal]

Not here please.

Why not???? Maybe he was talking about the fact that the statement in bold wouldn't be viewed as particularly friendly to the cause....

[dougwg]

My point being is that I didn't want this tread to turn into another obama thread (we have enough on here already) and I didn't want Kimber to start bashing dominus about his choice in upcoming election in this thread.

If he wants to discuss dominus' choice and the reasoning behind that choice, I think he should start another thread.

[Leader]

I'm in favor of the OC cause. I think anything we can do to show gun ownership in a good light is a victory.

However, time and time again the quotes these people say are just hurting the idea. Can't OC.org make up at least some scripted lines or only allow certain people to speak to the press? Any gains made by the demonstration are quickly squashed by the resulting articles.

Just my opinion.

You might have something here...
Maybe we can set up a place where you have to send your posts for MGO before it shows up here. That way we wouldn't have people suggesting things like censorship and have some REASONABLE limits on the 1st amendment.:shocked:

[KayL]

Jeffs said he was kicked out of Barnes and Noble in East Lansing on Saturday for openly carrying his .357 Magnum revolver at a Ted Nugent book signing. Jeffs said he demanded a refund for Nugent's book.
Why didn't Jeff return his gun to his car, come back, wait in line and tell The Nuge, the great supporter of 2A rights, what happened, and see if Ted would say something about it... and he would say it right in front of the entire crowd waiting in line and the whole bookstore!!

[dougwg]

Why didn't Jeff return his gun to his car, come back, wait in line and tell The Nuge, the great supporter of 2A rights, what happened, and see if Ted would say something about it... and he would say it right in front of the entire crowd waiting in line and the whole bookstore!!

The possibilities are endless.

[KayL]

Yup, but somehow I don't think he (Ted) would really do anything about it. He was there to make $$.

[dougwg]

Agreed, and maybe thats why Brian Jeffs did what he did.

[dougwg]

:D

[Kimber45]

My point being is that I didn't want this tread to turn into another obama thread (we have enough on here already) and I didn't want Kimber to start bashing dominus about his choice in upcoming election in this thread.

If he wants to discuss dominus' choice and the reasoning behind that choice, I think he should start another thread.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy. If I hijacked your thread to bash a celebrity, sorry. There's a lot of that going on.

[dougwg]

I understand and agree with you about dominus but I asked nicely because I could see this thread in the specific forum of "Open Carry Issues" turning into another obama thread.

The other post was posted in "General" and one of my reasons to attend the book signing was to ask Ted about OC.

It's not really that big of a deal and I'm not sure why you are making such a big deal of it.

Back on topic please.

[TFin04]

You might have something here...
Maybe we can set up a place where you have to send your posts for MGO before it shows up here. That way we wouldn't have people suggesting things like censorship and have some REASONABLE limits on the 1st amendment.:shocked:

You're off base.

My point was some people quoted in the article (whether misquoted or not) sound just how the left wants them to, radical gun nuts who have no business carrying a firearm. Nobody is calling for censorship, I'm saying that if you're going to talk to the press, you need to be able to put together a coherent thought and understand that it will be read by people who do NOT like this idea. It needs to give them an opening to consider it. Gun people probably agree with every word quoted in that article, but we are not the ones OC.org is trying to convince.

Then again, maybe you were one of the ones quoted and just don't like that I crapped on your speaking ability. Either way, if this is to be taken seriously public relations needs to be #1 priority. Isn't that the whole idea here?

Whatever. I'll keep a shirt over my gun and my mouth shut. Seems to work just fine that way.

[Leader]

You're probably right, only collage educated people should be able to own guns...Where should I turn mine in at?
Just add the words "with a degree" to the 2nd amendment.
Ever think that the general public might be smarter then you give them credit for?

[fotophocus]

There's a difference between being "college-educated" and being able to string together a sentence that promotes your cause when being interviewed.

[RifleGuy]

...collage educated people ....
Ever think that the general public might be smarter then you give them credit for?
No, but your misused word may be depictive of the problem; most people these days are only smart enough to look at the pretty pictures, very few are capable of readin', rightin', and 'rifmatic.

[Ricebrnr]

Leader, I can't figure out why you're taking an antagonistic tone. We're all freinds here and all believe in our rights.

We may differ on our opinions in the efficacy of open carry but I don't see anyone saying you can't or shouldn't if YOU choose to nor that those who advocate it shouldn't talk about it. That would be censorship. What you have here is constructive criticism.

I believe we're just discussing the way some of the message is coming across to the masses. Articulating a point so that its palatable to the masses has nothing to do with higher education (although that can certainly be helpful). It has to do with being able to frame your points in a context so that those who are opposed to your ideas are at least willing to consider them. Yes this is spin in a manner of speaking but without it you're only preaching to the choir.

Isn't the whole point of any demonstration to present your point of view to a wider audience with the hope of understanding?

[Leader]

I'm in favor of the OC cause. I think anything we can do to show gun ownership in a good light is a victory.

However, time and time again the quotes these people say are just hurting the idea. Can't OC.org make up at least some scripted lines or only allow certain people to speak to the press? Any gains made by the demonstration are quickly squashed by the resulting articles.

Just my opinion.

I shouldn't be one of the chosen ones.

[Venator12]

I'm in favor of the OC cause. I think anything we can do to show gun ownership in a good light is a victory.

However, time and time again the quotes these people say are just hurting the idea. Can't OC.org make up at least some scripted lines or only allow certain people to speak to the press? Any gains made by the demonstration are quickly squashed by the resulting articles.

Just my opinion.

Are you volunteering as spokeperson? Because we need people like you to help the cause. PM me for details.

[TFin04]

No, I wasn't.

[dominus]

...collage educated people ....

only smart enough to look at the pretty pictures

Was that intentional? ;)

[RifleGuy]

Was that intentional? ;)
Aye, 'twas.

[Venator12]

No, I wasn't.
I understand...that's what I figured, it's much easier to be critical on the sideline. If you change your mind and want to contribute, PM me.

[who dat]

I understand...that's what I figured, it's much easier to be critical on the sideline. If you change your mind and want to contribute, PM me.
:banghead:

[TFin04]

I understand...that's what I figured, it's much easier to be critical on the sideline. If you change your mind and want to contribute, PM me.
Assumptions will get you about as far as the bad press will. This is a forum for discussion and last time I checked, we're all allowed to still have opinions. I have no desire or time to be a poster boy for any organization, and furthermore have no intention of my full name and the fact that I carry a gun daily plastered over a bunch of newspapers. Sure, people could find the information if they really wanted it but I'm not going out to advertise either.

I OC very rarely and in select spots. I like what OC.org is trying to accomplish, but frankly I'm not willing to stick my neck out for possible legal issues and telling the world that I own and carry a gun. I wish you good luck in your cause.

[johnzilla]

Ever think that the general public might be smarter then you give them credit for?

You're kidding, right? If not, what newspapers do you read, what radio stations do you listen to, and what TV shows do you watch? Because they're obviously not the same as mine!

The general public is the dumbest group of people by definition. As in lowest common denominator.

I think it would be great if there were wallet-sized cards that had the relevant MI (and other state) laws, as well as a list of brief counterpoints to common arguments. Maybe someone already has these, I don't know. I wouldn't consider anything like that to be censorship or anything else impinging on free speech. As others have posted, public relations is the point of these get-togethers.

[pyzik]

Man I wish I would have found this site sooner. I would have jumped at the opportunity.

I recently moved and haven’t really found any other gun owners around me to mingle with.
All my gun buddies are an hour away.