Solicitation of Illegal Gun Sales

[Knimrod]

Please be advised that we have received several credible reports of attempts to use this forum to purchase guns illegally. If you are aware of any such activity, please report it to the administrator (admin@migunowners.org) immediately. Thank you to all the members who brought this to our attention. We greatly appreciate your honesty and integrity.

[who dat]

Please be advised that we have received several credible reports of attempts to use this forum to purchase guns illegally. If you are aware of any such activity, please report it to the administrator (admin@migunowners.org) immediately. Thank you to all the members who brought this to our attention. We greatly appreciate your honesty and integrity.
There were several that I was curious about, but with asking the right questions and having ALL the proper paperwork, we should be OK.

[CyborgWarrior]

Well that answers that question.
Roger that. I have turned down a couple that bothered me. I'm not sure of the intent, just didn't feel right.

[who dat]

Well that answers that question.
Roger that. I have turned down a couple that bothered me. I'm not sure of the intent, just didn't fell right.
I just figure if there is anything wrong, it's all wrong.

[Maranatha]

and it could be a set up to stop the dreaded Gun Forum Loophole

[Caribou]

For the benefit of naive people like myself, could one of you share what clues were given, so I know what to look for in the future?
I'm still pretty new to this hobby, and tend to be pretty trusting in general, and I don't want to get caught up in illegalities.

[Joeywhat]

For the benefit of naive people like myself, could one of you share what clues were given, so I know what to look for in the future?
I'm still pretty new to this hobby, and tend to be pretty trusting in general, and I don't want to get caught up in illegalities.

If someone wants to buy/sell a handgun without a permit/CPL, run away. If someone wants to do a deal "no questions asked", be very cautious (sometimes just means no paperwork with a long gun sale, perfectly legal).

[who dat]

For the benefit of naive people like myself, could one of you share what clues were given, so I know what to look for in the future?
I'm still pretty new to this hobby, and tend to be pretty trusting in general, and I don't want to get caught up in illegalities.
I need a gun...
I have cash...

You won't get caught up in illegalities if you don't do anything illegal. If you sell a handgun, you need to fill out a pistol sales record, an RI60. You must also own the gun and have a green card showing such.

If your buyer doesn't have a CPL, he/she must have a purchase permit. You will then fill out an RI60 and sign the purchase permit, keeping a copy for yourself. If they have a CPL, it acts as a purchase permit. You then fill out the same RI60. You should check ID in either case.

If you sell a long gun, you must ask if there is any reason that the buyer is ineligible to own it, and check ID for age. No other paperwork is needed.

If I missed anything, I'm sure someone will comment.

[CyborgWarrior]

FTF should mean Face To Face.
Never send a gun out for inspection.
Never send cash out withou product in hand.

ATF could have sat on my shoulder, every deal has been above board.

[Knimrod]

And if anyone ever asks you to deface the serial number on the gun, you have to know something is not right.

[customizedcreationz]

And if anyone ever asks you to deface the serial number on the gun, you have to know something is not right.


LOL I know to me its a given, but I guess you have to mention it.

I just find that one funny, but you know how many people have asked me to scratch the # off for them ........ that when I just start moving along my way.

:twak: :twak: :cop:

[CyborgWarrior]

And if anyone ever asks you to deface the serial number on the gun, you have to know something is not right.

You mean it's not a cleaning accident?

[fbuckner]

It obvious to me some people dont remember their oath to uphold their Core Values.

[Caribou]

Thanks all. I knew about the purchase permit/CPL and the RI60, and the rest of the things seem pretty obvious to me. Just wanted to make sure I don't miss some small detail I should know about.

"Scratch off the serial number for me"? Wow. Either they were ignorant, or thought you were!

[Shyster]

You must also own the gun and have a green card showing such.



Actually, there is NO requirement by the State of Michigan that an owner keep the green card. Of course, I wouldn't purchase a pistol from someone who didn't have one or who would not be willing to go with me to the cop shop to register it :)

[customizedcreationz]

There are a few things that have surprised me with getting my ffl and talking with ATF. Alot of the myth behind buying and selling from the internet. And whats funny is people will PM me or email me and tell me I am wrong. That they just read someplace on the internet that blah blah blah..... and that with my just having the ATF at my house still meant I was wrong. But I guess the idea behind my post is that you should check with the local, state and atf of your state to make sure what you think might be wrong or right. Dont go net surfing and say hmmmmm if Johnny says its ok , then it must be ok.

As always if things sound fishy, they probably are.

[wwjmaj]

It obvious to me some people dont remember their oath to uphold their Core Values.Or maybe Rick they just don't share our "core values". Some people are bred, born, and will remain that way generation after generation. As my father often said mixing puddin' with puddin' just guarantees more puddin'.

[who dat]

Actually, there is NO requirement by the State of Michigan that an owner keep the green card. Of course, I wouldn't purchase a pistol from someone who didn't have one or who would not be willing to go with me to the cop shop to register it :)
Yep, you are right. I knew someone would catch something!

[moosefisher]

I know there is no paper work involved with selling and buying long guns. They are very hard to keep track of. My question is, is there any web site that we can go to to see if a long gun was stolen? Just wondering.
Good Shooting, MOOSE

[Shyster]

I know there is no paper work involved with selling and buying long guns. They are very hard to keep track of. My question is, is there any web site that we can go to to see if a long gun was stolen? Just wondering.
Good Shooting, MOOSE
No. I bought one on gunbroker last year and ended up with a call from the cops. Stolen down in Indiana and they tracked it through the FFL dealer

[who dat]

No. I bought one on gunbroker last year and ended up with a call from the cops. Stolen down in Indiana and they tracked it through the FFL dealer
Then what happened?

[thumbody]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knimrod
And if anyone ever asks you to deface the serial number on the gun, you have to know something is not right.


LOL I know to me its a given, but I guess you have to mention it.

I just find that one funny, but you know how many people have asked me to scratch the # off for them ........ that when I just start moving along my way.



Sounds like someone trying to pull a Randy Weaver situation on you!

[Hockey9019]

And if anyone ever asks you to deface the serial number on the gun, you have to know something is not right.


Or when they ask if it can penetrate walls and body armor you kinda figure something isn't "right" :confused:

[Cedmonds]

Sounds like someone trying to pull a Randy Weaver situation on you!
Its true! they had someone befriend him for damn near a year at arien nation then asked him to file the barrel of a shotgun so he did without hesitation then he told him your underarrest unless you help us spy on arien nation, and randy told them basicly to **** off, and you know the goverment is bout that....

They put up a crazy documentary about it on Google video if you google "Ruby ridge" with interviews of the family and randy.

I can't post the URL, im too noob tastic. BUT SERIOUSLY google Ruby ridge, best documentary of my life.


Poor vickey weaver

Holding her baby.

[JSP]

If your buyer doesn't have a CPL, he/she must have a purchase permit. You will then fill out an RI60 and sign the purchase permit, keeping a copy for yourself. If they have a CPL, it acts as a purchase permit. You then fill out the same RI60. You should check ID in either case.


I am about to sell a revolver to a guy with a purchase permit. I thought if we filled out the purchase permit the RI60 form was not needed. I thought RI60 was if the buyer had a CPL. Could someone clarify this for me...thanks

[Tallbear]

I am about to sell a revolver to a guy with a purchase permit. I thought if we filled out the purchase permit the RI60 form was not needed. I thought RI60 was if the buyer had a CPL. Could someone clarify this for me...thanks

RI60 is for CPL holders and Purchase Permit is for everyone. CPL holders can also use a purchase permit if they choose.

[langenc]

Local sporting goods store will not trade/buy handgun without you turning in the green card. Had to drive 30 mi home to get it on one occasion-w/ CPL.

[mkls0]

Local sporting goods store will not trade/buy handgun without you turning in the green card. Had to drive 30 mi home to get it on one occasion-w/ CPL.

Then dont buy from them !!!
But tell them why..

[Talus]

Its true! they had someone befriend him for damn near a year at arien nation then asked him to file the barrel of a shotgun so he did without hesitation then he told him your underarrest unless you help us spy on arien nation, and randy told them basicly to **** off, and you know the goverment is bout that....

They put up a crazy documentary about it on Google video if you google "Ruby ridge" with interviews of the family and randy.

I can't post the URL, im too noob tastic. BUT SERIOUSLY google Ruby ridge, best documentary of my life.


Poor vickey weaver

Holding her baby.

This guy showed me the video, and it really opened my eyes to the world. Not even the gov't plays by their own rules..

[who dat]

I am about to sell a revolver to a guy with a purchase permit. I thought if we filled out the purchase permit the RI60 form was not needed. I thought RI60 was if the buyer had a CPL. Could someone clarify this for me...thanks
That's right. Mine was wrong. Sorry.

[who dat]

Local sporting goods store will not trade/buy handgun without you turning in the green card. Had to drive 30 mi home to get it on one occasion-w/ CPL.
Dumb management decisions will result in lost sales. They have the means to deal with this. It should be no problem for them.

[Shireman]

Never send cash out withou product in hand.

Why would the seller send their gun/item without receiving payment first?

[JMB19]

Actually, there is NO requirement by the State of Michigan that an owner keep the green card. Of course, I wouldn't purchase a pistol from someone who didn't have one or who would not be willing to go with me to the cop shop to register it :)
So are you saying you'll never buy another pistol unless from a dealer? I ask this because there is no such thing as a green card anymore, only if the person owned it before the yellow cards came out. I think doing away with the green card was stupid on States part.

[karcent]

So are you saying you'll never buy another pistol unless from a dealer? I ask this because there is no such thing as a green card anymore, only if the person owned it before the yellow cards came out. I think doing away with the green card was stupid on States part.

You're correct in saying that green cards will no longer be issued and the ones we may have in our posession are now meaningless pieces of paper.
Doing away with them is a small step in the right direction (it was NOT stupid!).......now we need to do away with the whole registration scheme.

Very few States issue registration cards or require handgun registration at all and they seem to do just fine without them.

We've grown so used to them because it's all any of us have ever known and now we feel a little naked without them. Too bad.

[wishn-i-was-fishn]

You're correct in saying that green cards will no longer be issued and the ones we may have in our posession are now meaningless pieces of paper.
Doing away with them is a small step in the right direction (it was NOT stupid!).......now we need to do away with the whole registration scheme.

Very few States issue registration cards or require handgun registration at all and they seem to do just fine without them.

We've grown so used to them because it's all any of us have ever known and now we feel a little naked without them. Too bad.

+1

[remingtondude58]

+1


I concur!

[JMB19]

You're correct in saying that green cards will no longer be issued and the ones we may have in our posession are now meaningless pieces of paper.
Doing away with them is a small step in the right direction (it was NOT stupid!).......now we need to do away with the whole registration scheme.

Very few States issue registration cards or require handgun registration at all and they seem to do just fine without them.

We've grown so used to them because it's all any of us have ever known and now we feel a little naked without them. Too bad.
I agree. What I meant as stupid was getting rid of green card for BIGGER yellow one! It made no sense! At least the green card was small a carriable.

[DickTracy1953]

This tread is off topic. What does the discussion of Michigan's new and improved pistol permit purchasing process have to do with the "solicitation of Illegal Gun Sales".

[Tedfs]

This tread is off topic. What does the discussion of Michigan's new and improved pistol permit purchasing process have to do with the "solicitation of Illegal Gun Sales".


I think it was a natural progressing to bring up the green card issue in this thread. Many people have relied upon those green cards for years to know a deal was legit and the firearm was not stolen.

Now they have to trust people on their word. That's rather hard to do in this day and age.

[jdixon22]

I know shipping long guns out of state require that they be sent to an FFL dealer.

I had heard that it is legal for a MI resident to ship a long gun to another MI resident (provided receiver is legal own). Can anyone cite this?

I see alot of things I want but they always are on the other side of the state...

[dumetre]

I know shipping long guns out of state require that they be sent to an FFL dealer.

I had heard that it is legal for a MI resident to ship a long gun to another MI resident (provided receiver is legal own). Can anyone cite this?

I see alot of things I want but they always are on the other side of the state...

My FFL has told me that it is legal to ship a long gun within michigan but that is second hand information...

[jdixon22]

My FFL has told me that it is legal to ship a long gun within michigan but that is second hand information...

It makes some sense to me. Someone here researched this, hopefully he pipes in....

[Byron]

My FFL has told me that it is legal to ship a long gun within michigan but that is second hand information...
My FFL told me that it is legal, but that it is safer and a better idea to ship only to an FFL, since you can't really know who you are dealing with otherwise. Apparently it's a personal decision how to handle it.

[Another supporter]

Getting back towards topic a little bit, on illegal gun sales.

When I bought a long gun from someone via this board. It is long winded story sorry

1st thing I did was a phone call, we talked I asked him things like where and why he bought gun. what did he use it for and I PAID ATTENTION TO EVERY WORD. I set up a time place to see gun, we set it up to be his house

2nd When I went to his house I took nothing more then a deposit and I asked the same questions again to make sure the story stayed the same, because he let me come to his house I looked around to make sure setting matched story.

Example he said he bought it for his son and to bird hunt, when at house son was there and house looked like kids lived there full time.

when looking gun over I noticed a ware mark on the barrel, him and the son started talking about the hunt and how mark got there.

since he was local to me I asked if I could give him a deposit and pick it up on pay day. He said yes and we wrote out 2 deposit receipt. one for each of us. He and I both put our DL# on it and signed it, we looked at each other DL.

3rd when I picked the gun up I asked him some more questions basically the same as before this was to make sure story stayed the same and we did another receipt again with DL. KEEP RECEIPT FOR EVER just put it in a file or safe place. I have green cards & paperwork from guns my dad sold in the sixties.



I know this is long winded but the bottom line is to go with your gut feeling and ask questions. asked the same question different ways MAKE SURE story stays the same, if people are lying it is hard for them to keep the story straight. Also you are trying to cover your butt.

I know this is not the perfect way and things could have gone wrong with me going to his house, but it also comes down to sizing up everything as you go.

[BlueWing]

Want to hear something scary. A few years ago I had a MI State Trooper order a cheap pistol from me. I have a FFL. Then when it came in he refused to fill out the paper work. He tried telling me because he was a State Trooper he did not need to fill out any paper work. Plus he want to pay in cash. I told him there is was NO WAY IN HELL I would sell him a pistol without him filling out the paper work. Boy, was he pissed. But, so was I. I am not going to sell a police officer or ANYONE a pistol with NO paper work done on it. Then if he used if for a drop gun, guess who would be the one going to jail? Yep, me!!!
You can never be too careful no matter who you are dealing with.
After that I lost all respect for this person!!!

[who dat]

Want to hear something scary. A few years ago I had a MI State Trooper order a cheap pistol from me. I have a FFL. Then when it came in he refused to fill out the paper work. He tried telling me because he was a State Trooper he did not need to fill out any paper work. Plus he want to pay in cash. I told him there is was NO WAY IN HELL I would sell him a pistol without him filling out the paper work. Boy, was he pissed. But, so was I. I am not going to sell a police officer or ANYONE a pistol with NO paper work done on it. Then if he used if for a drop gun, guess who would be the one going to jail? Yep, me!!!
You can never be too careful no matter who you are dealing with.
After that I lost all respect for this person!!!
Did he buy it?

[Cherokee]

I know shipping long guns out of state require that they be sent to an FFL dealer.

I had heard that it is legal for a MI resident to ship a long gun to another MI resident (provided receiver is legal own). Can anyone cite this?

I see alot of things I want but they always are on the other side of the state...

Yes, perfectly legal. Its been cited here a few times, a couple by myself. Do a quick search.

[Cherokee]

1st thing I did was a phone call, we talked I asked him things like where and why he bought gun. what did he use it for and I PAID ATTENTION TO EVERY WORD. I set up a time place to see gun, we set it up to be his house

Guess you wouldnt buy a firearm from me. Where, what, how is my business, not yours. As long as I'm willing to sign a receipt stating it was my lawfully owned firearm, thats all you need.

2nd When I went to his house I took nothing more then a deposit and I asked the same questions again to make sure the story stayed the same, because he let me come to his house I looked around to make sure setting matched story.

I'd never let you meet me at my home. We can meet someone in public.

Example he said he bought it for his son and to bird hunt, when at house son was there and house looked like kids lived there full time.

What if he was divorced and his son lived with his Mom?

I know this is not the perfect way and things could have gone wrong with me going to his house, but it also comes down to sizing up everything as you go.

So you would not buy from a guy by his looks alone? If thats so, your going to miss out, there are some ugly mug's around here, who are perfectly safe to buy from :)

..

[who dat]

..
...and you would never, I repeat never, write down my license number.

[M5NSX]

Anyone got any RPG's for sale??? Have cash in hand.

[Another supporter]

...and you would never, I repeat never, write down my license number.


Well I would never buy from you guys and you would not get my cash. Only thing a licience does is give me a way to make sure you are giving me your right name and if you say no makes me think you have something to hide. he got my licence also.

If cops knock on my door saying a gun I used to own was used in crime. I can show proof I sold it and give them a way to track guns travels.

I do same with cars, motorcycles, or anything that I sell and if used incorrectly could cause me to loose everything I own in court because of some dirt ball.

[Made_in_Michigan]

Anyone got any RPG's for sale??? Have cash in hand.

Sure, I have an extensive Roll Playing Game collection ;) I could part with maybe something...

[Made_in_Michigan]

Well I would never buy from you guys and you would not get my cash. Only thing a licience does is give me a way to make sure you are giving me your right name and if you say no makes me think you have something to hide. he got my licence also.

If cops knock on my door saying a gun I used to own was used in crime. I can show proof I sold it and give them a way to track guns travels.

I do same with cars, motorcycles, or anything that I sell and if used incorrectly could cause me to loose everything I own in court because of some dirt ball.

Looking at a license, and copying/writing down the #s are two drastically different things...

[who dat]

Well I would never buy from you guys and you would not get my cash. Only thing a licience does is give me a way to make sure you are giving me your right name and if you say no makes me think you have something to hide. he got my licence also.

If cops knock on my door saying a gun I used to own was used in crime. I can show proof I sold it and give them a way to track guns travels.

I do same with cars, motorcycles, or anything that I sell and if used incorrectly could cause me to loose everything I own in court because of some dirt ball.
There is no legal requirement to take any ID for a long gun sale. The more you push for things like this, the sooner more regulation will be foisted upon you. You will get a receipt, you may even have my name, but that is already more than the law requires. To cover your own rear, all the law requires is that you ask if the buyer is eligible to buy the gun.

Our comment about something to hide is the same one cops will use to usurp your 4th amendment right to freedom from illegal search. Do you want to so casually give that up, too?

[Garbo]

...and you would never, I repeat never, write down my license number.


I've never been asked,, typically we glance one another ID and thats it. If you have a CPL I believe its good, otherwise you'll have purchase permit and as long as it matches names you're good. I'll already have record on the slips of who you at least said you were. Long guns are different but unless i bought it new ther is no record of me owning it at all right? Not saying I would intentionally seel to a felon but unless i have reason to believe otherwise what can I do. I do know a guy that makes people get a PP for long guns. I guess its not entirely a bad idea if you're concerned. No they dont have to register it but its an easy way to get a backround check on your buyer.

[Another supporter]

Looking at a license, and copying/writing down the #s are two drastically different things...

When you write a check in a store a lot of times they check and write licences down. there is a reason.

[who dat]

When you write a check in a store a lot of times they check and write licences down. there is a reason.
What does that have to do with the transfer of a long gun?

[Another supporter]

What does that have to do with the transfer of a long gun?

It is just a way to CYA

Ex: If I am a dirt ball and use gun in crime or never title car and hit some one and leave the car, it get traced back to you some how? you show receipt with license number, now cop come after me.

Ex 2: I sell a car or gun and it is used in crime, they run car or gun and come to me. I show them paper work with number gives a path to travel.

Ex 3: I am out hunting with long gun, doing nothing wrong cross path with DNR who is in shitty mod, for some reason he run my info and long gun. It comes up stolen. I get them paper work cop now have someone else to ask how they got gun. The seller I got it from may have got it from bad guy or maybe he was bad guy.

Bottom line it covers my butt and everything I have worked for in life.

[78CJ]

When you write a check in a store a lot of times they check and write licences down. there is a reason.

Yeah, so they verified who you were and they can find you when the check does not clear.........totally different than the situation you are talking about, if you are giving or getting the money and you verified age you need nothing more for a long gun sale and I concur, this just gives more reason to make long gun sales the same as handguns.

Ryan

[who dat]

It is just a way to CYA

Ex: If I am a dirt ball and use gun in crime or never title car and hit some one and leave the car, it get traced back to you some how? you show receipt with license number, now cop come after me.

Ex 2: I sell a car or gun and it is used in crime, they run car or gun and come to me. I show them paper work with number gives a path to travel.

Ex 3: I am out hunting with long gun, doing nothing wrong cross path with DNR who is in shitty mod, for some reason he run my info and long gun. It comes up stolen. I get them paper work cop now have someone else to ask how they got gun. The seller I got it from may have got it from bad guy or maybe he was bad guy.

Bottom line it covers my butt and everything I have worked for in life.
Do you carry an umbrella all the time because the sky might fall on you?

Sorry, but those reasons are not reasons. They are slippery paths to more regulation and do not reflect your chosen screen name. There are legal ways to do things, and there is overkill. You have chosen overkill.

You may look at my license, but for me to give out ID that can be used against me in ID theft would be just as careless.

I repeat, you do not get to write down my DL #. It puts me at risk and I, too, want to cover my butt and everything I have worked for.

[Done Deal]

I repeat, you do not get to write down my DL #. It puts me at risk and I, too, want to cover my butt and everything I have worked for.

Only a fool would give out PII to somebody that he/she has never met before and may never meet again. That is flat out tempting fate and anybody that demands that sort of unnecessary information in a transaction with me is not going to have a transaction with me either.

[Thor77]

...and you would never, I repeat never, write down my license number.


Indeed.

[Thor77]

If cops knock on my door saying where did those firmarms go I used to own. I can then give up my own and other's 2A rights in fear and show proof I sold it and give them a way to track guns travels.

There, I fixed it for you....:naughty: But I lost those guns in a boating accident anyway....

[jdixon22]

People worry too much. On private long gun transfers, the average person has no way of knowing if the buyer or seller is legally allowed to own such long gun anyhow (unless your name is Osama Bin Ladin or similar in notoriety). The gun may be stolen and the buyer would never know. With long gun transfers between private citizens, there is an amount of "trust" between the buyer and seller that everything is legit.

If it is not legit, how is the "unaware or unknowing" side of the transfer to be held liable based on the current laws?

Edited for content...

[sullyxlh]

Getting back towards topic a little bit, on illegal gun sales.

When I bought a long gun from someone via this board. It is long winded story sorry

1st thing I did was a phone call, we talked I asked him things like where and why he bought gun. what did he use it for and I PAID ATTENTION TO EVERY WORD. I set up a time place to see gun, we set it up to be his house

2nd When I went to his house I took nothing more then a deposit and I asked the same questions again to make sure the story stayed the same, because he let me come to his house I looked around to make sure setting matched story.

Example he said he bought it for his son and to bird hunt, when at house son was there and house looked like kids lived there full time.

when looking gun over I noticed a ware mark on the barrel, him and the son started talking about the hunt and how mark got there.

since he was local to me I asked if I could give him a deposit and pick it up on pay day. He said yes and we wrote out 2 deposit receipt. one for each of us. He and I both put our DL# on it and signed it, we looked at each other DL.

3rd when I picked the gun up I asked him some more questions basically the same as before this was to make sure story stayed the same and we did another receipt again with DL. KEEP RECEIPT FOR EVER just put it in a file or safe place. I have green cards & paperwork from guns my dad sold in the sixties.



I know this is long winded but the bottom line is to go with your gut feeling and ask questions. asked the same question different ways MAKE SURE story stays the same, if people are lying it is hard for them to keep the story straight. Also you are trying to cover your butt.

I know this is not the perfect way and things could have gone wrong with me going to his house, but it also comes down to sizing up everything as you go.
Sounds Anal..............

[tdbrown1969]

I had never purchased a firearm FTF until a month or so ago.I have since bought a couple of rifles and a couple of handguns.I have a CPL so the handguns requiered Pistol Sales Record.The rifles I was never ask for any info.I am plenty old enough to own rifles and did not present or be ask for ID.If ask for ID I would have showed my CPL not my drivers license.I will not show any ID that has my home address on it and I would never invite anyone to my home for a sale.I also agree that we should not have to fill out special paper work for pistols,it is registration plain and simple.The state can call it what they like but it is a form of registration,td

[Another supporter]

Well for all you people that think I am nuts for my requirements and asking for DL#

Here is a link to gun talk a national radio show. go 34minute into the show.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=499619

enjoy

[who dat]

Well for all you people that think I am nuts for my requirements and asking for DL#

Here is a link to gun talk a national radio show. go 34minute into the show.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=499619

enjoy
It would certainly be easier for you to post a quote rather than us have to sit and count minutes...

[cmr]

Question-
What about selling a muzzleloader rifle? Specifically an in-line and not a flint lock or percussion?
Thanks in advance, new to this sort of thing. :bash:

[who dat]

Question-
What about selling a muzzleloader rifle? Specifically an in-line and not a flint lock or percussion?
Thanks in advance, new to this sort of thing. :bash:
Strangely enough a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in Michigan.

I think this got brought up in another recent forum.

[Missahba]

Strangely enough a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in Michigan.

I think this got brought up in another recent forum.

This is only partially true. Basically anything that launches a projectile can be fit into the Michigan definition of firearm, including pellet guns and black powder. Rifled or .22 cal. air, gas or spring guns, and most black powders arms, are firearms in MI.

There are exceptions for:

- smooth bore .177 bb guns;

- antique or antique replica black powder;

- antique cartridge arms whose caliber is no longer commercially available.

[langenc]

Never buy one with serial # filed off.

[newlyclassic]

NEVER buy one with the serial number filed off, I know I wouldn't

[RayMich]

You can download the Pistol Sales Record Form (RI-060) from the Michigan.gov website and save it to your computer.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ri-060_6454_7.pdf

You can fill out the form on the computer and print it, but you cannot save the filled out form. Only the blank form for can be saved.
________________________________________________

Looks like I may have posted this information OFF TOPIC -- SORRY!

I was reading all the posts about the requirements for purchasing/selling a handgun and didn't realize they were OFF topic.

Could a moderator move this post to an appropriate location or if you feel necessary DELETE IT.

Thanks.

[Tophe]

Sorry if I am reposting info that has already been posted....but is this correct?

If I sell a pistol to someone with a PP, then that is the documentation required.

If I sell a pistol to a CPL holder, then I need to fill out one of those RI-060 forms and mail it in? Or do I just need to keep a copy for myself?

I have a CPL myself.....I am asking because I am trying to sell one of my handguns, but want to make sure I do everything legal.

Chris

[sse]

Strangely enough a muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in Michigan.
Its the feds that exclude muzzleloaders from the definition of firearm.

[PhotoTom]

Sorry if I am reposting info that has already been posted....but is this correct?

If I sell a pistol to someone with a PP, then that is the documentation required.

If I sell a pistol to a CPL holder, then I need to fill out one of those RI-060 forms and mail it in? Or do I just need to keep a copy for myself?

I have a CPL myself.....I am asking because I am trying to sell one of my handguns, but want to make sure I do everything legal.

Chris

As the seller (to a CPL holder), you just keep one copy of the RI-60 and you're done, the BUYER has to get two copies to their local PD. Here is a thread that covers the process in detail:
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59135

Good Luck! :)