OCing Soccer MOM on TV talk show debate.

[Venator12]

Penn soccer mom lost her CPL because of OC. The CPL was reinstated by a judge. The anti-gun crowd reiterates the same rhetoric used against CC. Just replace OC and CC and it's the same crap.

http://www.lildobe.net/gallery2/v/PAFOA/Meleanie/SFN+on+Lyn+Doyle.flv.html

[Done Deal]

Penn soccer mom lost her CPL because of OC. The CPL was reinstated by a judge. The anti-gun crowd reiterates the same rhetoric used against CC. Just replace OC and CC and it's the same crap.

http://www.lildobe.net/gallery2/v/PAFOA/Meleanie/SFN+on+Lyn+Doyle.flv.html


Not exactly.....

When carrying concealed....all the soccer moms don't have any reason to get excited about it.

And, when was the last time that you saw a segment about carrying concealed to a soccer game?

Not the same at all....



That being said, I watched the first half....she could really hold her own. You could tell that she hhad really done her homework prior to the segment. I loved it how she jammed the Detective with the innocent victim of shootings statistics (11% for cops and only 2% for civilians).

[Venator12]

Not exactly.....

When carrying concealed....all the soccer moms don't have any reason to get excited about it.

And, when was the last time that you saw a segment about carrying concealed to a soccer game?

Not the same at all....

That being said, I watched the first half....she could really hold her own. You could tell that she hhad really done her homework prior to the segment. I loved it how she jammed the Detective with the innocent victim of shootings statistics (11% for cops and only 2% for civilians).

Yes the same. The argument that having a gun at a soccer field is somehow wrong and unsafe. Why would you need a gun at a soccer meet? Yet if the same person has a gun concealed everyone is safe. This is what I can't understand. The topic, if you listen to the whole thing and closely was about firearms in the hands of the average person not whether they are concealed or open. Open carry is seldom mentioned. Watch again.

How many segments where there when CC was proposed in Michigan, my God it's exactly the same, children will die and be scared, you will shoot people in arguments, yadda, yadda, yadda. It's the same poor argument.

And you saw how fast they shut-up when she said that (11%-2% or over 500% more likely to shoot a bystander).

[dougwg]

It's exactly the same and damn near word for word.

[Done Deal]

Yes the same. The argument that having a gun at a soccer field is somehow wrong and unsafe. Why would you need a gun at a soccer meet? Yet if the same person has a gun concealed everyone is safe. This is what I can't understand. The topic, if you listen to the whole thing and closely was about firearms in the hands of the average person not whether they are concealed or open. Open carry is seldom mentioned. Watch again.



I don't need to "watch again". I finished watching and the exchange between the cop and Melanie (20 lb sack of potatoes) was all about open carry. The cop felt that she should carry concealed. She said that it adversely effected her ability to draw.

And....if this wasn't about open carry as you suggest, I don't think the OC fans would be all over it, do you?

BTW: She did good....but, I still don't envision a slew of OC pistol packin momma's hitting the streets....because....OC creates issues for some folks who would just as soon avoid conflict of any kind.

[sixhundredrr]

She did well in the argument.


I wouldn't OC there, but that's just my opinion.

[Made_in_Michigan]

Seeing that women are 100s of % more likely to be victimized, I do see the easy argument for women to OC. How many muggers, rapists, robbers etc. are going to target an obviously armed woman when they can wait 2 min and find one that isn't... I'll bet a full paycheck that number is zero.

Now, I prefer to CC 99% of the time, but with all of my hunting gear on, I've OC'd this weekend several times. I've not had a second look in my camo gear in my little home town...

[Done Deal]

Seeing that women are 100s of % more likely to be victimized, I do see the easy argument for women to OC.

She made a good argument for OC, it probably is tough for a female to CC during the summer, especially toting that bag of potatoes.

Still....

[dougwg]

"conflict of any kind"

Most if not ALL conflict comes from cops. It was a cop that created all the fuss at the soccer game.

[pyzik]

Second Caller
Stop toating your rights.

:banghead:

ETA: She had some good arguments and I liked the guy next to her, but she was difficault to listen to, she did interupt alot and I can't stand that.

[DickTracy1953]

I have seen people open carrying handguns in my city on a limited basis. My first thought is that the person must be a plain clothes law enforcement officer, court officer, or probation officer. If they are not one of the above then certainly they are not a criminal. The though that they might be a criminal makes no sense. Criminals tend to conceal carry then brandish their firearms as needed. Has anyone ever heard of a situation where a felon was out walking the streets with his/her handgun holstered and in plain sight. If you have please chime on in because I am more concerned with those that conceal carry and I think that many criminals have the same concern.

[dhaas]

I agree with DickTracy

Also

open carry is fine by me, I have NO problem with it at all. However, the vast majority of people are freaked out by guns, the very site of a gun causes hysteria.

By that and that alone, I believe if you have the permits required then you should CC, if for some reason that is not a option for you, then you should OC.

just my 2 cents.

The girl in the video did a good job defending her position. A very interesting video for sure. Thanks for posting.

[springerdave]

dhaas, the "very site of a gun" freaks out a VOCAL minority, not a vast majority.springerdave.

[dougwg]

dhaas, the "very site of a gun" freaks out a VOCAL minority, not a vast majority.springerdave.

That has been my exact personal experience also.

[knu2xs]

Indeed, and it always seems that the squeaky wheel(s) tend to get the grease......

[dougwg]

Maybe that why we are starting to squeak a bit :)

[Karl]

Ahh, the ongoing debate. I CC every day. There are times when I OC because it is conveinient for me to do so. I'll not get into where and when because it doesn't matter, it's my right just about any where in the state. I've heard the argument of "it makes people nervous". So what? There are alot of things that make me nervous but I don't see anybody running to fix those for me. I've heard (from my grown, liberal daughter) "What about peoples right to feel comfortable in their surrounding?" what right of comfort? I've read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and can't find any where a right to comfort. I have found the 2A and I've found the right to the pursuit of happiness but nothing says you'll catch it. I've heard the gun grab argument but nobody can show where that has actually happened. I've heard the "you'll be a target to the BGs" Nobody can show where that has happened. Look, I'm not a rabid OCer or CCer. What I am is a rabid supporter of our collective and individual rights. You want to OC, fine by me. You prefer CC, fine by me. Just don't allow sheeple to trample on the rights of either one just because you don't do one or the other. The soccor mom in PA was well within her rights and everyone of us should support her or eventually there won't be anyone to support us. End rant here:twocents:

[dougwg]

You bring up a great point.

I have yet to see an OC'er "trample" on a CC'er for their method of carry.
The other way around... well.

Togather we stand.

[Done Deal]

You bring up a great point.

I have yet to see an OC'er "trample" on a CC'er for their method of carry.
The other way around... well.

Togather we stand.


"Trample"....prolly not likely.

"Bad mouth"-----time and time again.

You call that "squeaking"?????

[dougwg]

I used trample for lack of a better term. I think I got the message across.

MOST OCer have their CPL in Michigan. You're trying to say that OC'er bad mouth CCer's which is simply not true. Why would we bad mouth ourselves?

As far as the squeaking, lets keep that in the other thread please.

[Done Deal]

I used trample for lack of a better term. I think I got the message across.

MOST OCer have their CPL in Michigan. You're trying to say that OC'er bad mouth CCer's which is simply not true. Why would we bad mouth ourselves?

As far as the squeaking, lets keep that in the other thread please.

Ok, so your terminology is lacking. I understand.

What I stand behind is my assertion that time and time again, OC fans have bad mouth those that call into question the wisdom of doing certain OC things. And, I don't have the time nor the inclination to fool around quoting examples of how many times that has happened. I am sure readers already know.

As far as the squeaky wheel....that is in this thread sir, not any other that I am aware of.

Gotta run....enjoy.

[dougwg]

Ok, so your terminology is lacking. I understand.

What I stand behind is my assertion that time and time again, OC fans have bad mouth those that call into question the wisdom of doing certain OC things. And, I don't have the time nor the inclination to fool around quoting examples of how many times that has happened. I am sure readers already know.

As far as the squeaky wheel....that is in this thread sir, not any other that I am aware of.

Gotta run....enjoy.

Thanks for the dig.

Some feel that calling into question the wisdom of others is bad mouthing.

So someone bad mouths an OC and then when the OCer bad mouths the person who started the bad mouthing you all of a sudden have issue with that?

"Don't start nuttin, won't be nuttin!" Will Smith quote from Men in Black

Squeaky wheel: Yes, you are right about that, sorry. Too many threads to keep up with for how busy I am right now. I guess thats a good thing considering the economy eh?

The main problem some of us OCer's have with the people on the other side is that many spout off and state things as FACT when in reality it is simply opinion.

Example:
1) You will be shot first!
2) You will scare the soccer moms!
3) You will put your eye out kid!

These are not facts but merely opinions, feelings, fears and remote possibilities not facts and have nothing to do with probabilities.

If perhaps they would state these ideas as the possibilities that they are we might be able to get beyond this and on to better things.

Examples:
A) You might be shot first if you run across some BG that is serious even though the probability is small.

See I agree with "A" but "1" is simply not true.

[Done Deal]

Categorical oversimplications are seldom accurate, no matter where they originate.

But, CC or OC....chance are, he who decides to draw first has the best chance of getting the first accurate round off. And, chances are, if somebody decides to kill you, there is a pretty good chance you could be a dead man drawing.


Soccer Moms are a pain in the azz but, they are mouthy pains so...a force to be reckoned with---like it or not.

Dunno how to respond to the last one, and dunno what you were doing when somebody said you were gonna go blind if you kept it up. I don't think we want to know either....

[Venator12]

But, CC or OC....chance are, he who decides to draw first has the best chance of getting the first accurate round off. And, chances are, if somebody decides to kill you, there is a pretty good chance you could be a dead man drawing.


Soccer Moms are a pain in the azz but, they are mouthy pains so...a force to be reckoned with---like it or not.




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