assisted opening knives legal?

[opr1945]

I understand that switch blades, knives that are opened by pushing a button or other mechanical device, are illegal in Michigan.

but what about assisted opening knives, where you move the blade and then the knife opens it the rest of the way?

Are these legal? is there a court case or attorney generals opinion or something?
thanks,

[kframe357]

They are legal, either that, or there are lots of stores breaking the law by selling them

[who dat]

Full front exit knives or switchblades are still illegal. Spring assist knives from Kershaw and others are legal. Somewhere around 2002 or 2003 Kershaw issued a letter explaining the case they were involved in with the State of MI. In it, they said they got MI to accept that assisted opening knives were legal.

There is probably more to it, but at the time I was retailing Kershaw, and remember that it took some doing to get it to happen.

[Scoop]

It's been a while (a couple years), but our county prosecutor sent all the LE agencies a letter stating that he WOULD prosecute re: the Kershaw assisted-opening knives. I've never come across one, though.

Guess it might be a good idea to see if he's changed his mind, eh? :)

[who dat]

Kershaw letter of approval from the State of MI requested. Should be here in a couple days.

[kdogg]

It's been a while (a couple years), but our county prosecutor sent all the LE agencies a letter stating that he WOULD prosecute re: the Kershaw assisted-opening knives. I've never come across one, though.

Guess it might be a good idea to see if he's changed his mind, eh? :)

Actually, it's my understanding such a case did already happen in Michigan...?

I thought I heard someone was already prosecuted but that it was thrown out by the judge who agreed that assisted opening knives did NOT fit the category of a automatic knives.

Update, found googling:

There is District Court Judge from the east side of the State who authored a written opinion that the Kershaw Ken Onion knife is not a switchblade, however it has no binding legal effect as legal precedent.

The District Court Judge in Grand Haven (Ottawa County) ruled that the same knife is a switchblade and found a guy guilty, however did not author a written opinion. It likewise has no binding effect on other judges.

No idea if that is correct.

[who dat]

Well, I have 3 files here from Kershaw. Take them for what they are worth, but Kershaw has offered to provide legal assistance if needed.

My question to them followed by the files:

In Michigan as a SnapOn dealer, I recall issues with legality with the assisted opening knives. Now a County Prosecutor is threatening legal action against Kershaw knife carriers. Do you have a copy of the agreement with the state of Michigan that I can give him?

Thanks.
who_dat

Yes we did have an opinion only against us back in 2001, but in 2002 we won a case and set some precedence that our assisted opening knives are not considered switchblades.

I have attached the paperwork that should help. Please keep me posted on this or have a defense lawyer contact me if you have been charged.
Sincerely,
Jeff Goddard
Director of Sales & Marketing-Sport Division
Kai USA, Ltd.
Kershaw Knives, ZT Knives, Shun Cutlery
18600 SW Teton Ave
Tualatin, OR 97062
503-682-1966
503-682-7168fx
jeff@kai-usa.com NEW EMAIL ADDRESS


Legal Michigan case.pdf

As soon as I figure out how to copy and paste a .pdf, I'll show them!

[dougwg]

I may be able to help if you send me the pdf

dougwg at comcast dot net

[who dat]

Sent. Thanks, Doug.

[dougwg]

Let me know if you can access this file without downloading or installing anything..

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=d8314656-5454-47a9-a02d-106c0a4f7725

All I had to do is sign up with e-mail addy and password.... no fee or download.

[who dat]

Let me know if you can access this file without downloading or installing anything..

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=d8314656-5454-47a9-a02d-106c0a4f7725

All I had to do is sign up with e-mail addy and password.... no fee or download.
Both come in loud and clear.

[opr1945]

In the file it states:

"...could adopt a strict, inclusive construction of the statute and ruloe that the knives do violate the statute. the basis of such a ruling would be that the knives are opened by means of a 'mechanical contrivance'....Since the knives are sold, and are to be only used for utilitarian purposes, they are not illegal in Michigan."

The last two sentences seem inconsistent to me. the next to the last one saying a could could rule they violate the law. then the next one saying because of their use for "utilitarian purposes" they are legal.

seems pretty shakey to me.

But I appreciate the information....but I think I want more before I carry one.

[Bilge]

Hi, new here but this thread is what brought me to the forums.

Here's the short version of my story. My wife and kids gave me a Kershaw 1620H3 Scallion for Father's Day last year. My knife was stolen from my home. The police said once the case made it's way through the courts I could have it back. That's done, so I go to claim my knife...nope! The officer starts in about he can't find it right now and keeps interjecting "it's spring loaded, right?","isn't it a switchblade?" and so forth...fishing basically. I came away with the definite impression that my knife wasn't "found" because he's stalling on his misguided assumption that I was in possession of a switchblade. He even through in the comment that sometimes people think they can just come in and reclaim items that are illegal. Okaaaay!

So, I came home and started doing my research. And so far the best info I've found has been from this thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please (I want to be very sure on these points).

First off, these types of Kershaw knives clear the federal definition of a "switch blade" and are perfectly legal on that level.

Secondly, in the State of Michigan this type of knife also does not fit the definition of a "switch blade" as found in the case of The People of the State of Michigan vs. Nicolas Ryan Mata. Basically boiling down to the fact that the torsion bar (spring) does not open the knife but only assists in the full deployment of the blade after the knife has been opened manually (approximately 36 degrees in this case) by the operator.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here though. I've never been all that good with politics. And seeing as how this officer seems unsure of his position, the last thing I want to do is to put him on the defensive, that will surely entrench him into an oppositional position.

[who dat]

Hi, new here but this thread is what brought me to the forums.

Here's the short version of my story. My wife and kids gave me a Kershaw 1620H3 Scallion for Father's Day last year. My knife was stolen from my home. The police said once the case made it's way through the courts I could have it back. That's done, so I go to claim my knife...nope! The officer starts in about he can't find it right now and keeps interjecting "it's spring loaded, right?","isn't it a switchblade?" and so forth...fishing basically. I came away with the definite impression that my knife wasn't "found" because he's stalling on his misguided assumption that I was in possession of a switchblade. He even through in the comment that sometimes people think they can just come in and reclaim items that are illegal. Okaaaay!

So, I came home and started doing my research. And so far the best info I've found has been from this thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please (I want to be very sure on these points).

First off, these types of Kershaw knives clear the federal definition of a "switch blade" and are perfectly legal on that level.

Secondly, in the State of Michigan this type of knife also does not fit the definition of a "switch blade" as found in the case of The People of the State of Michigan vs. Nicolas Ryan Mata. Basically boiling down to the fact that the torsion bar (spring) does not open the knife but only assists in the full deployment of the blade after the knife has been opened manually (approximately 36 degrees in this case) by the operator.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here though. I've never been all that good with politics. And seeing as how this officer seems unsure of his position, the last thing I want to do is to put him on the defensive, that will surely entrench him into an oppositional position.
Your points are correct as stated.

It may help if you took a copy of the case into the PD. They may not know about it. You also could, and probably should, call the guy in the letter from Kershaw before doing anything. He and his attorney could call the PD and explain it to him. He did offer to provide some assistance if needed. It sounds to me like it's needed.

Good luck and be sure to post your results.

There may be help in the Legal Updates section. I'll post it if I can find it.

[RPMO6]

Very interesting, and good luck.

I've had a Buck Rush with a spring assist for many years and I too found this post and was encourged by it. I've always felt that a LEO could certainly give me a hard time about it if they wanted.

I'll be watching this thread for a good outcome and hoping you prevail.

[Bilge]

Your points are correct as stated.

It may help if you took a copy of the case into the PD. They may not know about it. You also could, and probably should, call the guy in the letter from Kershaw before doing anything. He and his attorney could call the PD and explain it to him. He did offer to provide some assistance if needed. It sounds to me like it's needed.

Good luck and be sure to post your results.

There may be help in the Legal Updates section. I'll post it if I can find it.

Thanks. I'll make that call Monday after I find out if they've "found" my knife or not. I was kind of leery about taking a copy of the case in to the officer. I don't want to have him take it personally as an "I'm right an you're wrong" kind of a thing. I'm also hoping that after he gets some time over the weekend to talk to some fellow officers (many of them I've met through friends) he'll do a little research on his own and come to the right conclusion. I gave him a little food for thought (tactfully I hope) about the fact that it was purchased at the local Wal-Mart and they have lawyers that research those things before they sell them to the public. After all, under Michigan law, they would be in a heap of trouble for selling "switchblades" to the public.

[who dat]

Thanks. I'll make that call Monday after I find out if they've "found" my knife or not. I was kind of leery about taking a copy of the case in to the officer. I don't want to have him take it personally as an "I'm right an you're wrong" kind of a thing. I'm also hoping that after he gets some time over the weekend to talk to some fellow officers (many of them I've met through friends) he'll do a little research on his own and come to the right conclusion. I gave him a little food for thought (tactfully I hope) about the fact that it was purchased at the local Wal-Mart and they have lawyers that research those things before they sell them to the public. After all, under Michigan law, they would be in a heap of trouble for selling "switchblades" to the public.
Although that makes perfect sense to you and me, unfortunately it isn't entirely true. There are many things that are perfectly legal to sell but illegal to purchase, own or use. Be very careful applying logic to law. :beer:

[Bilge]

Very true. But in this case I believe it's accurate. According to MCL Section 750.226a:

Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by the flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed 1 year or by a fine of not to exceed $300.00, or both.

[who dat]

Very true. But in this case I believe it's accurate. According to MCL Section 750.226a:
Well that certainly clears things up!:crazy:

Wouldn't it be nice if laws were easy to read and apply?

[Bilge]

Well, good news. I called today and talked with the officer. He was still in a stalling mood and said he'd make a few phone calls and get back with me tomorrow. Well, two hours later he called back and said the knife had been found! I guess he got all his questions answered since he seemed eager to have me pick the knife up this evening. It was a nice change from the stalling I had been getting.

All's well that ends well!8-)

[RPMO6]

Well, good news.
All's well that ends well!8-)

Nicely done! Congrat's on your patience and getting your knife back :thumbup: