Carrying where alcohol is sold??

[xd9sc]

I was wondering about being able to carry in someplace that sells alcohol? I understand that you can't open carry without a cpl, in any place that serves alcohol, but what about in a gas station, or meijer or something, that sells beer, but doesn't sell it for the purpose of you consuming it on their property? I have heard both ways on gas stations, and I would like to find an answer, and what the actual laws says about it. Thanks in advance.

I found the law, it states "where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises."

So wouldn't that mean that you could open carry in a gas stations, or store that sells alcohol, but not a restaurant that sells alcohol by the glass, or bottle, to be consumed on the premises??

1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

(c) A sports arena or stadium.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

[Garbo]

Basicly if it iss the primary source of income is the selling of beer, liquour etc for consumption on the property then no. Basicly stay out of bars. You'll hear debates about resteraunts such as applebees but personally I think they are OK I just wont sit at the bar. (thats a personal choice ).

[Rugergirl]

I'm not sure I believe the 51% rule, the Michigan law states:
"A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises"
Now for the sake of arguement let's say a business, like a bowling alley, makes 49% percent from the sale of alcoholic beverages, 26% from bowling fees and 25% from other sources of income. Now they don't make 51% from alcohol sales but they make more than they do from other sources. making the "primary" source of income from sales of alcohol.
The law does state primary, but not a specific percent, I'd use caution in if you're in doubt.

If it is a place that does not sell alcohol to be "by the glass consumed on the premises", such as a gas station or other retailer it should be fine to carry.

[Garbo]

I'm not sure I believe the 51% rule, the Michigan law states:
"A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises"
Now for the sake of arguement let's say a business, like a bowling alley, makes 49% percent from the sale of alcoholic beverages, 26% from bowling fees and 25% from other sources of income. Now they don't make 51% from alcohol sales but they make more than they do from other sources. making the "primary" source of income from sales of alcohol.
The law does state primary, but not a specific percent, I'd use caution in if you're in doubt.

If it is a place that does not sell alcohol to be "by the glass consumed on the premises", such as a gas station or other retailer it should be fine to carry.



I agree,, I dont know where the 51% came from but I think a better rule would be the "largest single source of income" may be more accurate. For example a store sells beer , widgets, goballs and handnuts and the income is broken down like this

beer = 38%
goballs = 25%
handnuts =19%
widgets =18%

one would have to say the "primary source of income" is beer.

[dougwg]

Sorry Garbo he's talking about without a CPL. As such "Carrying" without a CPL means Open Carrying.

xd9sc,

There are 2 sections of law that you must read not just that one. Again this is carrying without a CPL.
Here they are:
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

Again, if you don't have a CPL you can't carry (OC) in ANY PLACE that sells alcohol, even if it's not to be consumed in that business.

This means ANY PLACE that sells alcohol! ANY PLACE!

I hope that I've been clear.

[dougwg]

I'm not sure I believe the 51% rule, the Michigan law states:
"A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises"
Now for the sake of arguement let's say a business, like a bowling alley, makes 49% percent from the sale of alcoholic beverages, 26% from bowling fees and 25% from other sources of income. Now they don't make 51% from alcohol sales but they make more than they do from other sources. making the "primary" source of income from sales of alcohol.
The law does state primary, but not a specific percent, I'd use caution in if you're in doubt.

If it is a place that does not sell alcohol to be "by the glass consumed on the premises", such as a gas station or other retailer it should be fine to carry.

That is ONLY for CPL holders!

Having a CPL and not having a CPL are totally different and we MUST differentiate between the two.

[Garbo]

I misread his OP,,

what Doug said if you dont have a CPL.:whistle:

[Garbo]

That is ONLY for CPL holders!

Having a CPL and not having a CPL are totally different and we MUST differentiate between the two.

Think thats my fault for turning this in the wrong direction.

[dougwg]

Well this is in the open carry forum.... :)

No problem. I've made the mistake of not seeing the forum name when I have posted before also. We're human after all.

I just want to make sure he gets it and doesn't wind up in trouble.

[Garbo]

I thought it was a two part type question I just forgot to answer the other part?

[Rugergirl]

Sorry Garbo he's talking about without a CPL. As such "Carrying" without a CPL means Open Carrying.

xd9sc,

There are 2 sections of law that you must read not just that one. Again this is carrying without a CPL.
Here they are:
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

Again, if you don't have a CPL you can't carry (OC) in ANY PLACE that sells alcohol, even if it's not to be consumed in that business.

This means ANY PLACE that sells alcohol! ANY PLACE!

I hope that I've been clear.

Ooops missed the "open carry" part, sorry another blonde moment:yikes:

[UPSIDE-DOWN-FACE]

Sorry Garbo he's talking about without a CPL. As such "Carrying" without a CPL means Open Carrying.

xd9sc,

There are 2 sections of law that you must read not just that one. Again this is carrying without a CPL.
Here they are:
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

Again, if you don't have a CPL you can't carry (OC) in ANY PLACE that sells alcohol, even if it's not to be consumed in that business.

This means ANY PLACE that sells alcohol! ANY PLACE!

I hope that I've been clear.

what about all the stories of people OC'ing in say mijiers or walmart? just curious.

[dougwg]

It was illegal and they are very lucky the didn't get busted.

[Garbo]

Illegal without a CPL that is.

[RevDerb]

:deadhorse: :popcorn: :whistle:

[dougwg]

:deadhorse: :popcorn: :whistle:

Just because you already knew about the legality's doesn't mean everybody else does.

Should we ask you before posting to make sure it's acceptable?

Hell I guess you know everyfrickinthing so we can just go ahead and shut down the message board because nothing more needs to be said.... right?

[who dat]

Just because you already knew about the legality's doesn't mean everybody else does.

Should we ask you before posting to make sure it's acceptable?

Hell I guess you know everyfrickinthing so we can just go ahead and shut down the message board because nothing more needs to be said.... right?
So you're saying that you can't carry OC in a place that sells alcohol for take out. Is that right?

What about the guy who got jacked by the LEO in the party store? That was an OC deal, but did the guy have a CPL?

[Garbo]

I only felt the need to clarify because I accidently distorted the thread in the beginning so I was just helping keep it on the right track. But Doug is right, if you know the answers great for you but dont jump on someone stating or restating what is obvious to you as not everyone has been out here for months/ years / etc. And every now and then something comes out that some of us may not have known, realized or thought of in a particular subject.

Edit for Spell Check :)

not enough coffee yet

[dougwg]

So you're saying that you can't carry OC in a place that sells alcohol for take out. Is that right?
With a CPL you can carry CC or OC.
Without a CPL, according to the law as written, it would be illegal.

What about the guy who got jacked by the LEO in the party store? That was an OC deal, but did the guy have a CPL?

I pretty much already answered this.
Without a CPL he was very lucky he didn't get busted.
With a CPL it would have been legal so no worries. ..

I am unaware of "the guy who got jacked by the LEO in the party store". Gotta link?

[dougwg]

I only felt the need to clarify because I accidently distorted the threar in the beginning so I was just elping keep it on the right track. But Dound is right, if you know the answers great for you but dont jump on someone stating or restating what is obvious to you as not everyone has been out here for months/ years / etc. And every now and then something comes out that some of us may not have known, realized or thought of in a particular subject.

Zaktlee !

[who dat]

..

I am unaware of "the guy who got jacked by the LEO in the party store". Gotta link?
Maybe it was a C store at a gas station. Up north somewhere recently when the LEO was standing behind him in line and grabbed for the gun.

I just figured they would be selling alcohol, lots of them do.

[dougwg]

Ok,
That was a gas station (I'm not sure if the sell alcohol) and he has his CPL. Therefore no laws were broken.

[who dat]

Ok,
That was a gas station (I'm not sure if the sell alcohol) and he has his CPL. Therefore no laws were broken.
That's what I thought. Thanks.