Open carry in bars?

[SigP250Guy]

I frequent a local watering hole by my house thats technically considered a golf course. I seen a LE friend of mine in there the other day and asked him if I were able to carry inside the building. He responded with a no, but there was a catch he said. And that it was perfectly legal to OPEN carry inside any place that served alcohol. Even as the majority of its income. And that it is legal to open carry with a VALID CPL in any restricted pistol zone including bars. Now I was confused as you are, so I sat down with him and he made it perfectly clear that what he was saying was the gods honest truth. Now I dont know if he was a misinfomed cop or the guy was just blowing smoke up my ass or what. Any input would be greatly appreciated.. Thank you.

[detroit_fan]

:popcorn:

[Jim Simmons]

Legal? Technically, yes.

Smart. Absolutely not. That can go wrong in so many ways.

[dougwg]

Jim, Do you feel it's absolutely not smart to carry openly with a CPL in a 2500 seating place?

[.44Smith&Wesson]

Are you serious? I can open carry in a bar(not a wise choice for obvious reasons) but I can not carry concealed?:confused:

[Venator12]

Are you serious? I can open carry in a bar(not a wise choice for obvious reasons) but I can not carry concealed?:confused:
Yes. Two AG opinion said that you could. Because 750.234d allows CPL holders to have a firearm in gun free zones. The concealed carry law states you can't conceal in those places. So the AG said I guess we have to let those with CPLs OC in those places.

MOC has a member Has CPL) that has carried OC in all of these places except a school. I have OCed in bars without a problem. Now these places are private property and can ban weapons. But until they ask you to leave you are good. Also if you have a CPL or not if you have permission from the owner or his agent you can OC as well.

[Venator12]

Legal? Technically, yes.

Smart. Absolutely not. That can go wrong in so many ways.

Why is it not smart to follow the law? I no understand mean what you say.

[MINISFORME]

Why is it not smart to follow the law? I no understand mean what you say.


I believe what Jim is saying is just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it is the smart (or right) thing to do.
It does not appear to me he is saying to not follow the law----but that one can get into a hassle while following the law even if what one is doing is legal.

Here is an example from my world. About 3 months ago I asked my pastor if I could conceal carry (I obviously have a CPL) in the church he pastors. He personally said "Absolutely, I don't have a problem with that". He then went on to say but first I want to check with the church board. He got back to me with the answer in a day or two.
All of the board gave permission for me to carry concealed in the church EXCEPT one member. This member happens to be a Judge in the area I live. The Judge didn't want anyone who wasn't LEO to carry concealed in the church. His reasoning was that only LEO are trained for hostage situations and are trained in stressful shooting situations blah..blah...blah......
Not to brag-----but I am willing to bet I can out shoot most of the LEO in my area....... whatever.
So........I have been denied the ability to carry concealed in that church. But I have the option to OPEN CARRY (with my CPL in possesion) in that church and there is NOTHING the Judge or any cop can do about it.
So my personal dilemma is ----do I want to carry openly and upset the Judge and probably many of the parisheners??????? Even though I have considered doing just this, I have decided not to.
Of course another option is to carry concealed anyway and no one would probably ever find out. I'm not doing that either.

Jeff

[Remax]

I believe what Jim is saying is just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it is the smart (or right) thing to do.
It does not appear to me he is saying to not follow the law----but that one can get into a hassle while following the law even if what one is doing is legal.

Here is an example from my world. About 3 months ago I asked my pastor if I could conceal carry (I obviously have a CPL) in the church he pastors. He personally said "Absolutely, I don't have a problem with that". He then went on to say but first I want to check with the church board. He got back to me with the answer in a day or two.
All of the board gave permission for me to carry concealed in the church EXCEPT one member. This member happens to be a Judge in the area I live. The Judge didn't want anyone who wasn't LEO to carry concealed in the church. His reasoning was that only LEO are trained for hostage situations and are trained in stressful shooting situations blah..blah...blah......
Not to brag-----but I am willing to bet I can out shoot most of the LEO in my area....... whatever.
So........I have been denied the ability to carry concealed in that church. But I have the option to OPEN CARRY (with my CPL in possesion) in that church and there is NOTHING the Judge or any cop can do about it.
So my personal dilemma is ----do I want to carry openly and upset the Judge and probably many of the parisheners??????? Even though I have considered doing just this, I have decided not to.
Of course another option is to carry concealed anyway and no one would probably ever find out. I'm not doing that either.

Jeff

Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. If the pastor said no to cc, why would you open carry? Do you really feel the need to upset people because you absolutely need a gun in church? Not trying to be rude, but this seems like common sense to me. If the pastor says no, then just keep it in the car. If it were me and I absolutely had to have a gun in church, I would conceal it and keep it to myself. You risk going to jail though, so the choice is yours.

[Roger Roney]

I asked my pastor if I could conceal carry (I obviously have a CPL) in the church he pastors. He personally said "Absolutely, I don't have a problem with that"......All of the board gave permission for me to carry concealed in the church EXCEPT one member.How does your church operate when one person overrules the super-majority? :hide: :lol: I take it this request was on your behalf only? I suggest recruiting other members* w/CPL's and sitting down with the judge and address his concerns, or schedule a meeting with the board. Ask that it be made a (written) policy for any member w/CPL. I don't know of any church board that requires unanimous voting, so the board should be able to set policy even if the judge still disagrees.

*members of your church, another of the same or similar faith, or even from here of same or any faith.

Sorry to continue the drift from open carry in bars. You may now continue your regular snipi... errr... discussion.

Roger

[_DK_]

IMO, Not all LEO's know the laws and the OP happened upon one who did...

Personally I do not have the time nor money to defend myself in court for doing nothing wrong should I happen upon an LEO who
A)doesn't know the law
or
B) doesn't care about the law and has their own agenda.


Selfish of me? Absolutely... but thats my right as well. :poke:

[gjgalligan]

I frequent a local watering hole by my house thats technically considered a golf course. I seen a LE friend of mine in there the other day and asked him if I were able to carry inside the building. He responded with a no, but there was a catch he said. And that it was perfectly legal to OPEN carry inside any place that served alcohol. Even as the majority of its income. And that it is legal to open carry with a VALID CPL in any restricted pistol zone including bars. Now I was confused as you are, so I sat down with him and he made it perfectly clear that what he was saying was the gods honest truth. Now I dont know if he was a misinfomed cop or the guy was just blowing smoke up my ass or what. Any input would be greatly appreciated.. Thank you.


Does the golf course make most of its income from the alcohol sales?
If not then I would guess that CC would be allowed there.

[Venator12]

I believe what Jim is saying is just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it is the smart (or right) thing to do.
It does not appear to me he is saying to not follow the law----but that one can get into a hassle while following the law even if what one is doing is legal.

Here is an example from my world. About 3 months ago I asked my pastor if I could conceal carry (I obviously have a CPL) in the church he pastors. He personally said "Absolutely, I don't have a problem with that". He then went on to say but first I want to check with the church board. He got back to me with the answer in a day or two.
All of the board gave permission for me to carry concealed in the church EXCEPT one member. This member happens to be a Judge in the area I live. The Judge didn't want anyone who wasn't LEO to carry concealed in the church. His reasoning was that only LEO are trained for hostage situations and are trained in stressful shooting situations blah..blah...blah......
Not to brag-----but I am willing to bet I can out shoot most of the LEO in my area....... whatever.
So........I have been denied the ability to carry concealed in that church. But I have the option to OPEN CARRY (with my CPL in possesion) in that church and there is NOTHING the Judge or any cop can do about it.
So my personal dilemma is ----do I want to carry openly and upset the Judge and probably many of the parisheners??????? Even though I have considered doing just this, I have decided not to.
Of course another option is to carry concealed anyway and no one would probably ever find out. I'm not doing that either.

Jeff

Legal yes, but the church is private property and they can ban firearms.

[Venator12]

I believe what Jim is saying is just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it is the smart (or right) thing to do.
It does not appear to me he is saying to not follow the law----but that one can get into a hassle while following the law even if what one is doing is legal.

Here is an example from my world. About 3 months ago I asked my pastor if I could conceal carry (I obviously have a CPL) in the church he pastors. He personally said "Absolutely, I don't have a problem with that". He then went on to say but first I want to check with the church board. He got back to me with the answer in a day or two.
All of the board gave permission for me to carry concealed in the church EXCEPT one member. This member happens to be a Judge in the area I live. The Judge didn't want anyone who wasn't LEO to carry concealed in the church. His reasoning was that only LEO are trained for hostage situations and are trained in stressful shooting situations blah..blah...blah......
Not to brag-----but I am willing to bet I can out shoot most of the LEO in my area....... whatever.
So........I have been denied the ability to carry concealed in that church. But I have the option to OPEN CARRY (with my CPL in possesion) in that church and there is NOTHING the Judge or any cop can do about it.
So my personal dilemma is ----do I want to carry openly and upset the Judge and probably many of the parisheners??????? Even though I have considered doing just this, I have decided not to.
Of course another option is to carry concealed anyway and no one would probably ever find out. I'm not doing that either.

Jeff
I know what Jim is saying.

[who dat]

Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. If the pastor said no to cc, why would you open carry? Do you really feel the need to upset people because you absolutely need a gun in church? Not trying to be rude, but this seems like common sense to me. If the pastor says no, then just keep it in the car. If it were me and I absolutely had to have a gun in church, I would conceal it and keep it to myself. You risk going to jail though, so the choice is yours.

Apparently you missed the news story of the woman who was carrying in church and took out a well armed intruder bent on killing hundreds of church attendees. She single handedly stopped a massacre.

Also note that most of the recent mass murders have occurred in No Gun zones.

[zigziggityzoo]

Legal? Technically, yes.

Smart. Absolutely not. That can go wrong in so many ways.

Yeah, because, you know, when a gun enters a bar it SPONTANEOUSLY STARTS SHOOTING THINGS AT RANDOM!

Seriously? You really think something's going to happen?

Remember, When you're in possession of a gun, there is ZERO TOLERANCE for being under the influence.

I've OC'd into plenty of bars and no one's gotten hurt feelings, let alone gotten hurt.

Putting a 14 year-old kid behind the wheel of an SUV can go wrong in so many ways as well, but hey, if he's got his permit, it's perfectly legal.

[Done Deal]

So my personal dilemma is ----do I want to carry openly and upset the Judge and probably many of the parisheners???????


Why not explain things to the presiding official and let him/her know that come Sunday, you intend to sit right next to the Judge and see how cordial he is.

Then...open carry and be sure and say Good Morning to the guy....

After church...be sure and tell him to "go in peace".

[Done Deal]

Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. .


Since when did "need" enter the equation? Heck, you don't even need to enter the church to hear the sermon but, most of us do it that way.

[thefrazzz]

i thought when you were granted a cpl you kind of gave up the right to open carry in any situation ,the way the instructor made it sound was you are given the right to conceal it must be kept concealed at all times when on your person (or it would not be legal) ????????????/

[fr3db3ar]

The ONLY problem I see with OC in a bar is, you're putting yourself in a place where others may be intoxicated, they know you have a gun, somebody gets mad at somebody else and somehow manages to aquire your gun.

[Venator12]

i thought when you were granted a cpl you kind of gave up the right to open carry in any situation ,the way the instructor made it sound was you are given the right to conceal it must be kept concealed at all times when on your person (or it would not be legal) ????????????/
Yeah we at MOC hear that a lot. With a CPL you do not give up your RIGHT to OC, the CPL gives you the paid PRIVILEGE to conceal it. go to www.miopencarry.org to learn more about the wonderful free world of OC.

[Venator12]

The ONLY problem I see with OC in a bar is, you're putting yourself in a place where others may be intoxicated, they know you have a gun, somebody gets mad at somebody else and somehow manages to aquire your gun.
WOW what kind of places do you frequent? Awareness and retention holster. I would hate to be the guy that let a drunk get the drop on me.

[AMSProcessing]

Regarding the church thing, there are a couple ways to handle this. Keep in mind, I'm a former youth pastor, a preacher's kid, and currently Safety Director at my church. Before anything below, talk to the board member in question, and see if you can get him to be reasonable. If not - see below:

1. Play politics. Make your dissatisfaction known. If your church is like the vast majority of others and periodically elects board members, talk to the Judge, and let him know that you will do your darnedest to make sure he is not re-elected to the board. Talk about complaining to the denominational body/board/office that governs your church (if there is one). If none of that works, withdraw your financial support (stop giving/tithing) and swicth churches to one that cares about you, and is willing to let you defend yourself, your family, and your church against bad guys.

or

2. Quietly accept it for now. Slowly withdraw, and never let the pastor know why you are leaving. (NOTE: This is the most common option taken today).

or

3. OC. Be prepared to get the cops called on you. Be prepared to offend the sheeple. Be prepared for the backlash.

just my 1.25 cents (adjusted for Obamassiah's inflation...)

[MINISFORME]

Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. If the pastor said no to cc, why would you open carry? Do you really feel the need to upset people because you absolutely need a gun in church? Not trying to be rude, but this seems like common sense to me. If the pastor says no, then just keep it in the car. If it were me and I absolutely had to have a gun in church, I would conceal it and keep it to myself. You risk going to jail though, so the choice is yours.

The VAST majority of shootings occur in SCHOOLS AND CHURCHES!!!!! So , therefore it seems to me to be a very wise choice to carry a handgun in those places. But the law says these are Carry Exemption Zones. Really they are CRIMINAL EMPOWERMENT ZONES!

Hey Remax, you ought to read a newspaper or listen to the news on tv sometime. You might just pick up on some of these truths.

Jeff

[tom-n8ies]

The pastor said "no problem" that should be good enough.

Isn't that what the law says?

tom

[AMSProcessing]

The pastor said "no problem" that should be good enough.

Isn't that what the law says?

tom

the law says the "governing body". In most churches, the pastor is the leader (the President of the company in business terms), however the board is the actual governing body - where the pastor derives their authority from. Think of the board as a corporate Board of Directors. Typically, they give the pastor tons of authority, however the final authority usually rests with the board.

[goldwing2000]

I thought the law said "presiding official" not "governing body". No?
That's what it says on MSP's web site under Pistol Free Areas (http://www.mi.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html):
Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

If so, then would not the presiding official be the pastor and his word would be good enough for law?

Except for the fact, in this case, that he basically rescinded his permission after the judge gave a veto.

And by the way... where does that judge, judge? Want to make sure I never go there. :hang:

[AMSProcessing]

You're right. It's not "governing body", it's actually "presiding official or officials" (MCL 28.425o (1)(e). My point was that in most churches, the pastor is not actually the official, it's a board of people.

[Scoop]

Why is it not smart to follow the law? I no understand mean what you say.Technically, openly carrying is NOT "following the law". You can't follow a law that doesn't exist (which is what the premise of open carry in MI is based upon).

Obtaining a CPL, carrying concealed, and following the requirements as outlined in MCL and federal law is "following the law". Openly carrying is the act of doing something that not defined as illegal, but that doesn't mean you are "following the law". It simply means you are doing something that not IN the law.

Regardless, doing something that isn't illegal or 'following the law' doesn't necessarily make it right/smart. It only means you can't be charged criminally with a statutory crime.

[zigziggityzoo]

Technically, openly carrying is NOT "following the law". You can't follow a law that doesn't exist (which is what the premise of open carry in MI is based upon).

Obtaining a CPL, carrying concealed, and following the requirements as outlined in MCL and federal law is "following the law". Openly carrying is the act of doing something that not defined as illegal, but that doesn't mean you are "following the law". It simply means you are doing something that not IN the law.

Regardless, doing something that isn't illegal or 'following the law' doesn't necessarily make it right/smart. It only means you can't be charged criminally with a statutory crime.

Oh, but it is in the law:

Michigan State Constitution:

§ 6 Bearing of arms.
Sec. 6. Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.


It doesn't get much clearer than that.

[Venator12]

Technically, openly carrying is NOT "following the law". You can't follow a law that doesn't exist (which is what the premise of open carry in MI is based upon).

Obtaining a CPL, carrying concealed, and following the requirements as outlined in MCL and federal law is "following the law". Openly carrying is the act of doing something that not defined as illegal, but that doesn't mean you are "following the law". It simply means you are doing something that not IN the law.

Regardless, doing something that isn't illegal or 'following the law' doesn't necessarily make it right/smart. It only means you can't be charged criminally with a statutory crime.

I disagree. You can not have a firearm in a place that has a liquor license unless you meet certain exemption's, a CPL, Permission, security, or LEO, etc., so there's your law. Now if someone is OCing in a bar under a CPL as is allowed by statute, he is following the law. Am I wrong?

As for what is right or smart, well that's a personal choice now is it not?

[Jim Simmons]

<snip>As for what is right or smart, well that's a personal choice now is it not?

It involves the application of good judgment.

[hunt-n-fool]

perhaps you should pledge a larger amount of money this year, then quit and tell them (the board) that you reconsidered, and that perhaps they should reconsider a vote :D

just a thought !

[Venator12]

It involves the application of good judgment.
And good judgment is subjective.

[Done Deal]

I would hate to be the guy that let a drunk get the drop on me.


So then....are you saying that you have more sense that to even attempt a stunt like OC in a crowded bar?


Have you ever experienced the thrill of getting in a knock down drag out in a bar while open carrying? Until you have....well....

[zigziggityzoo]

So then....are you saying that you have more sense that to even attempt a stunt like OC in a crowded bar?


Have you ever experienced the thrill of getting in a knock down drag out in a bar while open carrying? Until you have....well....

Part of carrying ...PERIOD... Is to not put yourself into situations that could potentially escalate into needing your firearm.

I'd say 90% of bars aren't going to have a brawl in them on a regular basis. There aren't really many of them at all here in my part of the world, and Ann Arbor has A LOT of bars.

Situational Awareness is key.

[Venator12]

So then....are you saying that you have more sense that to even attempt a stunt like OC in a crowded bar?


Have you ever experienced the thrill of getting in a knock down drag out in a bar while open carrying? Until you have....well....

And you did when you where in uniform and there in an official capacity dealing with some bad boys. I heard the story. Can it happen yes.

How I carry is my personal choice. All I'm saying is you can do it legally with a CPL.

I have a greater chance of dying in a car crash, then having my gun taken or being shot first in the greatest bank robbery of the century, but I still drive my car...a lot.

[Done Deal]

Part of carrying ...PERIOD... Is to not put yourself into situations that could potentially escalate into needing your firearm.


True but....I really hate spending all day under the covers.

Most folks don't go looking for trouble but....there certainly isn't much to stop trouble from finding them.

Open carry in a bar....any bar....is in my opinion, needlessly paving the way for making the news.

While I don't think a bar should be a pistol free zone for CPL holders, openly strapping on your six guns and sauntering into the local watering hole is just something that should be avoided for alot of reasons.

[MINISFORME]

True but....I really hate spending all day under the covers.

Most folks don't go looking for trouble but....there certainly isn't much to stop trouble from finding them.

Open carry in a bar....any bar....is in my opinion, needlessly paving the way for making the news.

While I don't think a bar should be a pistol free zone for CPL holders, openly strapping on your six guns and sauntering into the local watering hole is just something that should be avoided for alot of reasons.

I am as much of a pro-second Amendment person as you will EVER FIND but......open carry in a bar is asking for trouble.
Concealed carry is another matter, bars should not be exemptions for CPL in my opinion. In fact there should not be ANYWHERE that a citizen with a CPL should not be able to carry.

Jeff

[countryboy3248]

Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. If the pastor said no to cc, why would you open carry? Do you really feel the need to upset people because you absolutely need a gun in church?


:lolup: Yea, your completely right. Why exercise your rights if it upsets people? that's ridiculous. The point of doing it, even though it upsets others is because IT IS HIS RIGHT. Regardless of who gets upset. But by the way your talking, why have a CPL? it might "upset" people that you have a gun. Think before you type, please.

[Done Deal]

:lolup: Yea, your completely right. Why exercise your rights if it upsets people? that's ridiculous. The point of doing it, even though it upsets others is because IT IS HIS RIGHT. Regardless of who gets upset. But by the way your talking, why have a CPL? it might "upset" people that you have a gun. Think before you type, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remax
Now sure why you would need to carry a gun in a church. If the pastor said no to cc, why would you open carry? Do you really feel the need to upset people because you absolutely need a gun in church?



Yea, your completely right. Why exercise your rights if it upsets people? that's ridiculous. The point of doing it, even though it upsets others is because IT IS HIS RIGHT. Regardless of who gets upset. But by the way your talking, why have a CPL? it might "upset" people that you have a gun. Think before you type, please.
__________________



I gotta disagree somewhat....nobody has the right to carry were the property owner says you can't. One right cannot trump another right....their is no hierarchy of rights.

[zigziggityzoo]

Having carried numerous times into a bar openly, I can easily say that no one has decided to pick a fight with me, no one's kicked me out of the bar, and no one's died as a result of my carry.

No news organizations have run a story about me. No gun jumping out of the holster.

I don't see bars being any more dangerous than your local Applebee's restaurant. People don't just suddenly go crazy on you just because you're carrying.

[Done Deal]

Having carried numerous times into a bar openly, I can easily say that no one has decided to pick a fight with me, no one's kicked me out of the bar, and no one's died as a result of my carry.

No news organizations have run a story about me. No gun jumping out of the holster.

I don't see bars being any more dangerous than your local Applebee's restaurant. People don't just suddenly go crazy on you just because you're carrying.


And maybe you had unprotected sex with somebody you picked up in that bar and never had a problem with that either but....it still doesn't make it a smart choice.

[countryboy3248]

I gotta disagree somewhat....nobody has the right to carry were the property owner says you can't. One right cannot trump another right....their is no hierarchy of rights.

You are right here DD. There is no trump.

I was trying to get the point across to REMAX that it doesn't matter how others feel about you carrying. It is the carriers right to bear arms, either open or concealed.

[Thanis]

i thought when you were granted a cpl you kind of gave up the right to open carry in any situation ,the way the instructor made it sound was you are given the right to conceal it must be kept concealed at all times when on your person (or it would not be legal) ????????????/

You know, I was told this as well. I'm not sure it is correct. Here are my thoughts. Be careful as you transition from CC to OC and OC to CC. If you OC, make sure it is clearly an OC.

IMO (so no legal fact), if you are clearly OC, then as a CPL holder, you would be safe (because there are times in MI law that it refrences a CPL holder transitioning from CC to OC and per MI law you have the right to bear arms). However I'm wondering (and have been told some tales) that you could run into trouble as a CPL holder if you carry in some type of in between method. For example IWB vs OWB.

OWB holster for OC, so as long as the hoster and firearm can be reasonable be seen, then your good.

However if you OC an IWB holster, you may be in violation of your CPL.

I have also been told without a CPL, IWB holster may not be a valid OC method.

Hopefully I don't get yelled at for the post, as I'm just sharing what I was told.

[Done Deal]

You
Hopefully I don't get yelled at for the post, as I'm just sharing what I was told.


Do you care to provide a source?

[LivoniaDan]

You know, I was told this as well. I'm not sure it is correct. Here are my thoughts. Be careful as you transition from CC to OC and OC to CC. If you OC, make sure it is clearly an OC.

IMO (so no legal fact), if you are clearly OC, then as a CPL holder, you would be safe (because there are times in MI law that it refrences a CPL holder transitioning from CC to OC and per MI law you have the right to bear arms). However I'm wondering (and have been told some tales) that you could run into trouble as a CPL holder if you carry in some type of in between method. For example IWB vs OWB.

OWB holster for OC, so as long as the hoster and firearm can be reasonable be seen, then your good.

However if you OC an IWB holster, you may be in violation of your CPL.

I have also been told without a CPL, IWB holster may not be a valid OC method.

Hopefully I don't get yelled at for the post, as I'm just sharing what I was told.Let's also realize the 4 types of law..
1) The "letter" of the law
2) The "spirit" of the law
3) The "interpretation" of the law
4) The "application" of the law

And who it is that is using these.

[MLG]

And you did when you where in uniform and there in an official capacity dealing with some bad boys. I heard the story. Can it happen yes.

How I carry is my personal choice. All I'm saying is you can do it legally with a CPL.

I have a greater chance of dying in a car crash, then having my gun taken or being shot first in the greatest bank robbery of the century, but I still drive my car...a lot.


This is true, but it's true even if you don't carry at all.

[zigziggityzoo]

OWB holster for OC, so as long as the hoster and firearm can be reasonable be seen, then your good.

However if you OC an IWB holster, you may be in violation of your CPL.

I have also been told without a CPL, IWB holster may not be a valid OC method.

Hopefully I don't get yelled at for the post, as I'm just sharing what I was told.

I'm not going to yell at you for this post. But I am going to clarify.

If you have your CPL, you may carry as you wish. You have successfully expanded your rights to carry a firearm by granting the ability to carry how you see fit in most places.

If you don't have your CPL, and you carry IWB, you may be charged with carrying concealed (as some have been in the past). This has yet to be brought to trial, so we don't know the potential effects of carrying in such a manner.

HOWEVER, if you have your CPL, feel free to carry openly in an IWB holster. You cannot be charged for carrying concealed with an IWB because you have your CPL UNLESS you're carrying in a Pistol-Free-Zone listed on the back of your CPL. (If this is considered concealed, not open, you would be violating the terms of the license)

[Thanis]

Do you care to provide a source?

I'm lost on the request.

I do not have a source, and clearly I'm no expert. It is just what I've been told. I posted only to share I had a similiar experience as you (what a CCW instructor stated).

Reading the relevant laws (MCL 28.425 and MCL 750-234) I just don't see how a charge would stick if a CPL holder were to OC (there is no law against it, so what would the charge be) if the CPL holder was clearly OC. From what I understand, there has to be a law on the books before you can be charged with doing something illegal.

With that said, I'm with the crowd that understands, simply doing what is legal (but out of the norm) can lead to question from law-enforcement.

In the end, if they just get rid of pistol-free zones for CPL holders, a lot of this mess would be made simple.

[Taurus850cia]

You know, I was told this as well. I'm not sure it is correct. Here are my thoughts. Be careful as you transition from CC to OC and OC to CC. If you OC, make sure it is clearly an OC.

IMO (so no legal fact), if you are clearly OC, then as a CPL holder, you would be safe (because there are times in MI law that it refrences a CPL holder transitioning from CC to OC and per MI law you have the right to bear arms). However I'm wondering (and have been told some tales) that you could run into trouble as a CPL holder if you carry in some type of in between method. For example IWB vs OWB.

OWB holster for OC, so as long as the hoster and firearm can be reasonable be seen, then your good.

However if you OC an IWB holster, you may be in violation of your CPL.

I have also been told without a CPL, IWB holster may not be a valid OC method.

Hopefully I don't get yelled at for the post, as I'm just sharing what I was told.

Um, where, exactly, does it reference this?

[Done Deal]

I'm lost on the request.

I do not have a source, and clearly I'm no expert. It is just what I've been told. I posted only to share I had a similiar experience as you (what a CCW instructor stated).




I will restate.

What is the name of the "CCW instructor" that is filling your head with such nonsense? It is easy to see why you clearly are no expert based on the instruction that you reportedly received.

Please....warn others... so they can avoid wasting their money.

[robertgreen]

Yeah, because, you know, when a gun enters a bar it SPONTANEOUSLY STARTS SHOOTING THINGS AT RANDOM!

.

I think this is great! I have used it before myself. Hell i know that even a lorcin wont do that:smoke:

[gmc52789]

:yeahthat: lol maybe tho!