What paperwork do you carry on you when you O/C?

[DetroitStyle]

Just trying to cover all of my bases before I try this out...

Are you required to carry your pistol registration?

If not, do you carry it just in case? Or one of those pamphets/letter to LEOs from opencarry.org?

Thanks :)

If it matter, I do have my CPL

[who dat]

For newly registered handguns since the new law took place in Jan. of this year, you are required to carry the registration copy for 30 days. After that, you can trash it or not.

[DetroitStyle]

For newly registered handguns since the new law took place in Jan. of this year, you are required to carry the registration copy for 30 days. After that, you can trash it or not.
Thank you for the quick reply.

:)

[dougwg]

I transition from CC to OC all the time. In and out of my car and such so I always carry both my Drivers license and my CPL.

pocket knife
cell phone
debit card
some cash
health insurance card

If I feel there is a high probability of me being stopped while open carrying then I also carry my voice recorder.

[ltdave]

i would think a photocopy of the proper MCL regarding open carry, maybe reduced 50% would be nice to have...

just my $0.02

[dougwg]

You want people to carry around a 50% reduced copy of the law that doesn't even exist?

Here... you can have your $0.02 back....:twocents:

[who dat]

You want people to carry around a 50% reduced copy of the law that doesn't even exist?

Here... you can have your $0.02 back....:twocents:
Well, it sure wouldn't take up a lot of room in your wallet.:-P

[dougwg]

Well, it sure wouldn't take up a lot of room in your wallet.:-P

True dat!

And for that reason alone it just might be a good idea.

[zigziggityzoo]

:whistle:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/21688.html

[giqcass]

I think a voice recorder is an absolute for anyone trying to OC or CC. Police and security guards are not Lawyers they are regular people (sometimes idiots on a power trip). Unless OC becomes more popular in this state we are going to have a lot of idiots that don't understand it. I'd rather have a tape instead of my word against yours. Especially when everyone is being barraged by terrorist and school shootings on 24/7 news.

[Raspberrysurprise]

Anytime I plan on OC'ing I carry my voice recorder.

[Done Deal]

Anytime I plan on OC'ing I carry my voice recorder.


Why, so you can record your plans?

[ltdave]

there are MCLs that apply to where you can NOT carry openly without a permit, or where you CAN carry with no permit required...

i dont have the numbers in front of me but if someone acting under color of law were to say, "you cant carry openly here" then you could produce the MCL and ask them if there is anything in it that would preclude open carry wherever you happen to be...

[zigziggityzoo]

there are MCLs that apply to where you can NOT carry openly without a permit, or where you CAN carry with no permit required...

i dont have the numbers in front of me but if someone acting under color of law were to say, "you cant carry openly here" then you could produce the MCL and ask them if there is anything in it that would preclude open carry wherever you happen to be...

Anyone acting under color of law to knowingly lie in order to deprive you of your civil rights provided by the Constitution or laws of the United States is committing a federal felony. (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/242fin.php) :gavel:

So, if someone were to say that to me, I would say "You are aware that lying to me to deprive me of my rights is a felony, correct?"

The MCL that states where you *are not* allowed to carry is here: MCL 750.234d (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d). Note that CPL holders are exempted from these restrictions, and we are speaking STRICTLY about Open Carry.

[Wizeguy]

You hang out here too! :banana:

Just trying to cover all of my bases before I try this out...

Are you required to carry your pistol registration?

If not, do you carry it just in case? Or one of those pamphets/letter to LEOs from opencarry.org?

Thanks :)

If it matter, I do have my CPL

[Guy de Loimbard]

I carry the same paperwork that I do when carrying concealed, driver's license, CPL, and anything else that happens to be in my wallet.

[Venator12]

This was posted on opencarry.org A member carries this. If they continue to violate his rights, the LEO can't say he wasn't aware of this violation.

***WARNING TO POLICE***
Without probable cause, a Terry stop is illegal. Mere
Possession of a firearm where legal is not probable cause,
and I do not consent to any searches. If you are forcibly
Terry stopping or otherwise detaining me merely because
of open carrying, you are clearly violating the following
Federal and State laws:
-42 USC 1983- Mi Const. art. 1 sec 6
-Title 18, Sec 242, USC-Terry v Ohio
-2, and 4 Amd. B.O.R.-JL v Florida (SCOTUS) 2000
Refer questions to Dean Greenblat, firearms attorney-248 644 8760

[ColonelKurtz]

I think a voice recorder is an absolute for anyone trying to OC or CC.

I assume you have to inform the LEO that you're recording, and even openly holding the recorder in front of you so the he / she knows and you get a clear recording? I ask, b/c in Michigan isn't it the case that unless [I]both/I] parties are aware of and / or consent to the recodring, it won't be admissable in court?

[Fatboycykes]

I assume you have to inform the LEO that you're recording, and even openly holding the recorder in front of you so the he / she knows and you get a clear recording? I ask, b/c in Michigan isn't it the case that unless [I]both/I] parties are aware of and / or consent to the recodring, it won't be admissable in court?

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49320

[Venator12]

I assume you have to inform the LEO that you're recording, and even openly holding the recorder in front of you so the he / she knows and you get a clear recording? I ask, b/c in Michigan isn't it the case that unless [I]both/I] parties are aware of and / or consent to the recodring, it won't be admissable in court?

No, we have recorded many LEO encounters without their knowledge and then sent an audio to the chief as part of a complaint. No arrests for eavesdropping.

LEO's are public servants and can be recorded in public when they are conducting business. Otherwise every news camera, every video camera recordings of police working would be eavesdropping. We have discussed this ad nauseum. There is no expectation of privacy when out in the public.

If you know of any case law supporting what you claim please post it.

[TAC]

Anytime I plan on OC'ing I carry my voice recorder.


It won't do much good after they stomp on it. They'll just say it fell out of your pocket in the scuffle and someone must have accidentally stepped on it.

[dougwg]

It won't do much good after they stomp on it. They'll just say it fell out of your pocket in the scuffle and someone must have accidentally stepped on it.


So you're saying a LEO will willfully destroy evidence of a crime?

[TAC]

So you're saying a LEO will willfully destroy evidence of a crime?

Are saying that never happens?

[Venator12]

It won't do much good after they stomp on it. They'll just say it fell out of your pocket in the scuffle and someone must have accidentally stepped on it.

True, but that happening hasn't been posted by an OCer either on the Michigan forum or the national forum. It certainly could happen and may have happened, just not reported yet. Upon an arrest the likelihood of them finding a device increases and the possibility of it getting lost is greater.

Not sure what scuffle you are talking about. Most encounters so far have been scuffle free. In every encounter we have had in Michigan so far the person was free to go.

The purpose of the recorder is to have some evidence of inappropriate and non-professional behavior on the part of the LEO. It helps to back up any complaint that might be filed. It also may establish the reason for the detainment and whether that reason was lawful.

I'm sure most savvy LEO's are aware of the increase in personal recording devices, i.e., cell phones, audio, digital video and still cameras, etc., carried by more and more people. The chance of them being recorded in their duties has increased exponentially.

[dougwg]

Are saying that never happens?


Oh heeeeell no.

But those LEO are criminal and need to be removed.

[ColonelKurtz]

No, we have recorded many LEO encounters without their knowledge and then sent an audio to the chief as part of a complaint. No arrests for eavesdropping.

LEO's are public servants and can be recorded in public when they are conducting business. Otherwise every news camera, every video camera recordings of police working would be eavesdropping. We have discussed this ad nauseum. There is no expectation of privacy when out in the public.

If you know of any case law supporting what you claim please post it.

Cool, thanks. Must have missed those other discussions, and I guess what I heard was either in another state I lived in and/or only applies where there's an expectation of privacy.

[TAC]

True, but that happening hasn't been posted by an OCer either on the Michigan forum or the national forum. It certainly could happen and may have happened, just not reported yet. Upon an arrest the likelihood of them finding a device increases and the possibility of it getting lost is greater.

Not sure what scuffle you are talking about. Most encounters so far have been scuffle free. In every encounter we have had in Michigan so far the person was free to go.



There were a couple incidents in St. Clair County awhile back. One was physically grabbed by the police, had his gun forcibly removed. The other was sitting on the lawn, Border Patrol tossed him on his face, forcibly removed his gun, then picked him up like a dog and dragged him to the command post. This was back when the boat races were going on.

[Venator12]

There were a couple incidents in St. Clair County awhile back. One was physically grabbed by the police, had his gun forcibly removed. The other was sitting on the lawn, Border Patrol tossed him on his face, forcibly removed his gun, then picked him up like a dog and dragged him to the command post. This was back when the boat races were going on.

I did say most encounters. There will always be some, but less than some people seem to think.

[mastiff]

I carry toilet paper on me, just in case they ask for my Papers, never know when the police are going to need to wipe themselves off, after they are updated on the rights that they about to violate.-Federal Law Oops !