AR piston carbines UNDER 900 [Archive]

Buzzcat

09-19-2009, 10:39 AM

Just got that e-mail myself.

What's the poop on the CMMG AR's? Good? Bad?

Interesting that CDNN and others seem to be dropping their prices on ARs almost every week. Has production caught up with demand and created a "surplus" situation? I wonder how low they'll go?

pkuptruck

09-19-2009, 10:56 AM

cmmg are not bad... rate them between average and best...

As far as price? Doubt you'll see them go lower than 750....

:ak2:

Batman

09-19-2009, 11:05 AM

What's the poop on the CMMG AR's? Good? Bad?These are considered by many in the trade to be hobbie guns and not for serious operators (or one to stake your life on). You get what you pay for. Cheap price=cheap quality. Sometime you don't get what you pay for but you rarely get something for nothing.

mini4m3

09-19-2009, 11:10 AM

These are considered by many in the trade to be hobbie guns and not for serious operators (or one to stake your life on). You get what you pay for. Cheap price=cheap quality. Sometime you don't get what you pay for but you rarely get something for nothing.

I had a CMMG that I ran (non-chrome lined) about 3,000 rounds of misc wolf, brass, etc in little over 3 weeks. No problems, never cleaned it once and functioned flawlessly the entire time.

pgaplayerless

09-19-2009, 11:11 AM

These are considered by many in the trade to be hobbie guns and not for serious operators (or one to stake your life on). You get what you pay for. Cheap price=cheap quality. Sometime you don't get what you pay for but you rarely get something for nothing.

eh those are the same brand-wagonees that back in the days were praising Colt and dissing RRA as "cheap hobby guns". Look how it has changes now....

You can stake your life on any mainstream AR-15 be it Colt, RRA, Stag, CMMG, Armalite, Noveske, etc etc. I'd stake my life on my "cheapo" Model 1 Sales kit AR and it has reliability proven in K's of wolf fired without a stoppage.

CMMG is just as good as any. 99.9% of civi's will never use an AR-15 in a way of "serious operators".

Buzzcat

09-19-2009, 11:32 AM

As far as price? Doubt you'll see them go lower than 750....

:ak2:

Well, at $769 we're basically already at the $750 mark.

IIRC, CDNN was selling the same CMMGs for about $900-$1000 only a couple/few months ago. :shock:

Barring any mayhem occurring that would cause another run on guns, I'll go out on a limb and bet that we'll see $650 or less by Xmas. At some point, these dealers are going to have to move these guns off their books to recoup all the money they have tied up in inventory.

pkuptruck

09-20-2009, 05:48 AM

Well, at $769 we're basically already at the $750 mark.

IIRC, CDNN was selling the same CMMGs for about $900-$1000 only a couple/few months ago. :shock:

Barring any mayhem occurring that would cause another run on guns, I'll go out on a limb and bet that we'll see $650 or less by Xmas. At some point, these dealers are going to have to move these guns off their books to recoup all the money they have tied up in inventory.

Thats a great dream... and I hope it comes true... only because some of these clowns ( retailers and private sales) went a little overboard when the hysteria hit, and mortgaged the farm on buying at 650 and wanting to sell at 1200 + in some cases.... :bfg:

But, even before the hoopla, an above average AR platform was about $700, give or take a few either way. Even "kits" were in the $475 range, with an added $125 to 170 for the bolt/carrier....

Also, can't wait for the AK weinnies that are trying to dump their WASR they bought for $299 and are STILL trying to sell them at $600 - 800 to get it in the rear end as well! :rofl:

JohnJak

09-20-2009, 08:53 AM

CMMG's are good to go. It is a great setup and I would let it protect and depend my life with it.

Oh by the way, The ones bashing it are the ones trying to get full retail plus for their AR's.(sorry no disrespect to anyone here.)

pkuptruck

09-21-2009, 06:36 AM

pkuptruck

09-21-2009, 12:05 PM

eh those are the same brand-wagonees that back in the days were praising Colt and dissing RRA as "cheap hobby guns". Look how it has changes now....

You can stake your life on any mainstream AR-15 be it Colt, RRA, Stag, CMMG, Armalite, Noveske, etc etc. I'd stake my life on my "cheapo" Model 1 Sales kit AR and it has reliability proven in K's of wolf fired without a stoppage.

CMMG is just as good as any. 99.9% of civi's will never use an AR-15 in a way of "serious operators".

Glad to hear it. Most folks think paying "more" will yield a much more superior weapon. Me? like you, not so much.... :brow:

RSF

09-21-2009, 01:08 PM

So ok for then experts then

Oh many high round count high intesity classes have you run these guns through.

How many of these or others have you seen in said classes

how many of these have run these durations without part changes. cleaning lubing etc..

how many have rounds have they actually seen? not made up figures
how many classes have you been to and see these systems. run and break and fail and have to loan out your own kit

oh by the way a brand new stag that had about 400 rounds down range gave up the ghost at a bennie cooley class this week on day 1

and over the long haul yes the more costly guns will give you better performance and service life.

I have been to 4 top tier classes this years with carbine use and 3 more to take in the next few weeks beisdes teaching 5 carbine classes this year myself.

get off the errorent and go train then get back to us,.

PS one of my RRA ars went back to facotry 4 times. along with several of the DEA's on guns that were failing horribly at a class in CHI town

or the DPMS guns that had to stop the class to be re reamed to true 556 specs froma dept SRT Team

see I get to these thing i dont read and play them on the internet, and its not some Watered down LEO class either we are talking 3 day 2500 round count classes in some cases 2 days 2500 rounds. and more .

yes i have seen noveske gun's and LMT go bad as well but in less numbers. than others.

deskjockey

09-21-2009, 01:49 PM

RSF, if you were going to build an AR what would you use?

I based my build on this article:

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=81462

Now I am building another, what is your ideal build?

Perfect timing too, I am in the market for an upper

RSF

09-21-2009, 02:16 PM

I dont build anymore

ideal means different to many others i have a lot of double digit numbers of around in many different set ups

my favorits are MP guns with fsc 556 comp with PRI or JP guards followed by larues/DD I just dont need 3000 feet of rail on my gun

but if i did it would be larue /dd
giessle triggers are bar none the best

I liek a Lwt barrel magpull stocks followed by SOPMOD

1x9 or 1x7 your call to each is own. is it a duty gun or plinker or gammer gun

Batman

09-21-2009, 05:43 PM

CMMG is just as good as any.I have a RRA that I've had for many, many years and run about 10k rounds worth of ammo through and it has never failed me. That said it is not as good as a Colt. Colt is the standard by what all other are measured against. Colt IS mil. spec. CMMG does not measure up to the specifications of Colt. This is verified by measurements. Does this mean that there guns don't work? NO. Here is the link to the chart:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

99.9% of civi's will never use an AR-15 in a way of "serious operators".
Very True! But that's not something I'm comfortable sleeping with. YMMV and as Steve has pointed out experience dictates that odds are a CMMG will fail way before a Colt or LMT or other gun high on the list will. But make no mistake, they all will fail.

pgaplayerless

09-22-2009, 02:43 PM

Thats a great dream... and I hope it comes true... only because some of these clowns ( retailers and private sales) went a little overboard when the hysteria hit, and mortgaged the farm on buying at 650 and wanting to sell at 1200 + in some cases.... :bfg:

But, even before the hoopla, an above average AR platform was about $700, give or take a few either way. Even "kits" were in the $475 range, with an added $125 to 170 for the bolt/carrier....

Also, can't wait for the AK weinnies that are trying to dump their WASR they bought for $299 and are STILL trying to sell them at $600 - 800 to get it in the rear end as well! :rofl:

Say it ain't so! $669.95.....

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/DEL-TON_DTI-4_.223_5.56_Rifle.html

NavyDoc8425

09-22-2009, 02:58 PM

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

Found this surfing one day, pretty in depth and a good read...The 2 together should point you in any direction you want to go!

r/

Doc

Buzzcat

09-22-2009, 03:27 PM

Say it ain't so! $669.95.....

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/DEL-TON_DTI-4_.223_5.56_Rifle.html

Oh yeah! Maybe I should lower my prediction to $550 by Xmas. ($500?)

pkuptruck

09-23-2009, 12:15 PM

Oh yeah! Maybe I should lower my prediction to $550 by Xmas. ($500?)

hmmmm. looks like oil futures....:thup:

Imagine the look on SOME "dealers" faces when they find that out.....
Guess their $2,000,000 generic AR aint worth it anymore.... LOL

Now if it would just happen as quickly with the "ammo hoarders.." :bash:

Batman

09-23-2009, 02:41 PM

What I find to be interesting is a seller or dealer claiming that because there gun is "pre-ban" it's now or going to be worth more, lots more and even more than the same gun made today!

pkuptruck

09-23-2009, 02:50 PM

What I find to be interesting is a seller or dealer claiming that because there gun is "pre-ban" it's now or going to be worth more, lots more and even more than the same gun made today!

:shock:

now you went and took away ANY excuse they have to try to rape and pillage
some un-informed buyer .... great... just great! :cry:

:rofl:

pgaplayerless

09-23-2009, 02:53 PM

:shock:

now you went and took away ANY excuse they have to try to rape and pillage
some un-informed buyer .... great... just great! :cry:

:rofl:

I have "US Property" marked AR lower....it's really rare gubmit lower it's worth a lot more then normal lower....

Got some rare "LEO only" marked mags too, those are special too :lol:

Buzzcat

09-23-2009, 05:33 PM

hmmmm. looks like oil futures....:thup:

Imagine the look on SOME "dealers" faces when they find that out.....

The big trick to predicting is to know how low they'll go is knowing what the dealer price is on these things, and even better, any further discount given to dealers for large purchases.

Like I said, a lot of these companies bought huge stockpiles (likely on credit), and not many can afford to keep their money (working capital) tied up on the shelves.

Similarly, the manufacturers have been making the things 24/7 and perhaps have overshot the demand curve, leaving huge amounts of rifles on their shelves as well. They want their working capital back too.

Nobody will sell at a loss, but as time goes on, it makes business sense for both dealers and manufacturers to whittle down their profit margin closer to their cost in order to move the inventory and at least get their working capital back.

On a similar note, anyone see the latest American Rifleman? They reviewed the new Ruger 5.56 AR variant. I had a nice chuckle when I saw the MSRP is $1995.

David in MI

09-28-2009, 11:26 PM

pkuptruck

09-29-2009, 06:00 AM

Thanks for posting this. I picked one up and am expecting delivery this week. I bought the CMMG gas piston version, 8 mags, sling, case and 800 rounds of Remington 55 grain ammo for just under $1400 delivered.

thats what makes this such a great forum....:smoke: :clap:

now, quit singing "kum-by-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and finish loading
those magazines for me! :cheers:

David in MI

09-30-2009, 12:22 AM

lol, I think I had the tracking number memorized day 1! Should be here tomorrow. Magazines will be loaded promptly. You have my word on that!

Heading down to Target Sports in Royal Oak to try some optics. Thanks again for posting! :cheers:

thats what makes this such a great forum....:smoke: :clap:

now, quit singing "kum-by-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and finish loading
those magazines for me! :cheers:

TFin04

09-30-2009, 12:41 AM

Even the best AR's break more than the crappy AK's.

Let's see where that one gets me... :doh:

mini4m3

09-30-2009, 02:43 AM

Even the best AR's break more than the crappy AK's.

Let's see where that one gets me... :doh:

My expirence says otherwise lol

TFin04

09-30-2009, 01:33 PM

Not mine.

TeamAFX

09-30-2009, 08:41 PM

Even the best AR's break more than the crappy AK's.

Let's see where that one gets me... :doh:

I had an AK with over 30,000 rounds through it (Not just a made up number) and it ran till the day I sold it. The bore was dark and the finish was almost gone. It did not break any time that I had owned it!

AK will out last an AR!

hopeitsfast

09-30-2009, 08:46 PM

What I find to be interesting is a seller or dealer claiming that because there gun is "pre-ban" it's now or going to be worth more, lots more and even more than the same gun made today!Why would a 'pre-ban' not be worth more? There are still some states where those are the only one that can be owned. Or am i completely wrong as usual?

Archon-ep

09-30-2009, 09:54 PM

Even the best AR's break more than the crappy AK's.

Let's see where that one gets me... :doh:

Not in my experience, because I have this problem that I don't manage to break either platform. Weird huh? Send me over 100k of ammo and I'll report back on which one breaks more often. :D :D :D

TFin04

09-30-2009, 11:07 PM

I had an AK with over 30,000 rounds through it (Not just a made up number) and it ran till the day I sold it. The bore was dark and the finish was almost gone. It did not break any time that I had owned it!

AK will out last an AR!
I have a documented 19,xxx (in the middle of an open case right now) rounds of corrosive 5.45 through an AK74 that was built on a used surplus parts kit with who knows how many rounds through it.

Still shoots 2moa and other than a rare hard primer, has never malfunctioned. AK FTW.

RSF

09-30-2009, 11:38 PM

And i have One ar with actual over 30k Not made up either since i log all this ****)that has had nothing more than a extracator change......My mp ar in 545x39 has 6k now no cleaning no nadda just lube

the ak is more durable to a degree as far as smaller maintanable parts go

pkuptruck

10-01-2009, 05:34 AM

Even the best AR's break more than the crappy AK's.

Let's see where that one gets me... :doh:

How does this relate, even marginally , to the original post?

Nice hijack!

TFin04

10-01-2009, 01:23 PM

How does this relate, even marginally , to the original post?

Nice hijack!
It doesn't at all, which is why I put the disclaimer in. Back to your regularly scheduled piston driven AR's...

Archon-ep

10-01-2009, 01:27 PM

I'm still waiting for my "wankel" rotary driven AR15.

Until then, anyone notice that thing inside the bolt carrier with the gas rings looks and operates kinda like a piston? :)

pkuptruck

10-01-2009, 02:48 PM

I'm still waiting for my "wankel" rotary driven AR15.

Until then, anyone notice that thing inside the bolt carrier with the gas rings looks and operates kinda like a piston? :)

Huh...

I am sure there are more than few "WANKERS" on this board....
not sure of the Wankels......

:crazy: