Metro park a CEZ????

[gjgalligan]

In a email annoucing the meeting was this

Note: Kensington Metropark is a CEZ, no carry zone. We apologize and
promise to select a more friendly place next year!


How can this be? It is a public owned and operated property.



Read this from their website:



THE HURON-CLINTON METROPOLITAN AUTHORITY, METROPARKS, is a regional special park district encompassing Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Washtenaw and Livingston counties.


It was sanctioned by the Michigan State Legislature in Act No.147 of the Public Acts of 1939, and was approved in 1940 by the residents of the five counties. The Board of Commissioners held its first meeting in 1941 and funding for the Metroparks became available in 1942.

The governing body of the HCMA is a seven-member Board of Commissioners. Two of the members are selected by the governor to represent the district at large, and the other five are selected by the Board of Commissioners from each of the five member counties.

The Metroparks are funded principally by a property tax levy, limited to one-quarter of one mill (the rate for 2003 is .2176 mills), and by revenues from vehicle entry fees and other user fees for various facilities such as golf courses.

Currently, 13 Metroparks covering almost 24,000 acres, serve about 9.5 million visitors annually. The Metroparks are located along the Huron and Clinton rivers, providing a greenbelt around the Detroit metropolitan area. The parks are generally more than 1,000 acres each, with Stony Creek and Kensington being more than 4,300 acres.


Do they have the same power the DNR use to have?

[45 acp]

Also from thier website : www.metroparks.com/global/rules_regs.php#

FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun, pistol or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, within written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to permitted hunting area.

It wil take a law suit to change this.

Any one arrested for carrying would be a good test case. Do you think they would actually arrest over 200 members of MGO?

I am not advacating anything I cant make the meeting. So please
dont flame me for suggesting that everyone carry because I am not.I am just think out loud on the board.

[Jim Simmons]

Someone needs to make the Metropolitan Park Authority aware of the preemption law and MCRGO v. Ferndale.

[G22]

Someone needs to make the Metropolitan Park Authority aware of the preemption law and MCRGO v. Ferndale.

Jim your a mind reader!!!
I am awaiting a responce from them on this and included the Fenrdale decision...

I dont expect to receive a responce before the meeting though. :(

Perhaps more people could ask as well. Let them know its not just one person who opposes this "rule".

gjgalligan wrote:
Do they have the same power the DNR use to have?

Technally no, IF the Ferndale verdict sets a presedent.
Reguardless the "rule" is in place and you would probably have to deal with the police/courts as a test case to get it changed.

[Kimber45]

It has been awhile since I've been out to Kensington but I do know that they, as did the other Metro Parks, removed their signs posting the park as a CEZ after Ferndale.

I suspect that they just never updated the web site.

[bluethunder]

It has been awhile since I've been out to Kensington but I do know that they, as did the other Metro Parks, removed their signs posting the park as a CEZ after Ferndale.

I suspect that they just never updated the web site.

Ah, good, John. A 'ray of sunshine' after all. :D

[G22]

Update:

Dear Mr. Xxxxxx:

Please be advised that I am in receipt of your communiqué in regard to the
possession of firearms within the confines of the Metroparks. I am
forwarding your message to the Metroparks Chief of Park Police Howard
Chanter for a more accurate and timely response to your request for
information.

Thank you for checking ahead in regard to this regulation. Have a great day!

Dick Shafer
Superintendent.

Hopefully we will know soon for sure.
I will keep everyone up to date.

[Jim Simmons]

Well done, Mr. Xxxxxx!

Betcha a nickel you don't hear from them again.

[Ken P]

I thought this was resolved after the law went into effect...

I remember the conversation on the MFMCRGO board and that it was ok to carry

[G22]

Well done, Mr. Xxxxxx!

Betcha a nickel you don't hear from them again.

Your on!! :D

This may have nothing to do with CCW but I found meeting minutes that state:

Mr. Howard Chanter, Chief Park Ranger for Huron-Clinton Metroparks stated that he and Mr. Greg Almas were attending as a result of the letter from the MCOLES they received indicating the action the board had taken on April 11, 2002. This action ceased the activation of certification for new officers employed by his agency. As a result, his staff and legal counsel have been working with Mr. Gary Ruffini of the MCOLES staff. He stated that Mr. Ruffini’s assistance was very helpful and thanked him for a great job. He reaffirmed his position on the letter that was sent by the Director of Huron-Clinton Metroparks indicating their desire to seek legislation enabling them to function as an independent law enforcement agency. He stated that he had spoken to the five sheriffs in his area and they have all sent letters of support and will assist in any way they can. He asked that the Commission consider options to give his agency relief while they are
seeking this legislation.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/comm8-20-02_48050_7.pdf

[G22]

I thought this was resolved after the law went into effect...

I remember the conversation on the MFMCRGO board and that it was ok to carry

Ken, can you provide some sort of documentation on this?

I would like to take it to the meeting with me.

Not that I dont trust you...Just like to be extra sure!! :P

[G22]

Jim,
Just to clarify...I will collect my nickel as soon as Mr. Howard Chanter, Chief Park Ranger for Huron-Clinton Metroparks replies to my question. :lol:


I sent it to the Chief Executive Officer for the HCMA, the Chief of Interpretive Services & Public Relations, and the Kensington Park Superintedent. I have received notification from 2 of the 3 stating they have forwarded my question to Mr. Howard Chanter and should hear from him soon. :lol:

(As I take a deep breath & hold it). :lol:

[Ken P]

I thought this was resolved after the law went into effect...

I remember the conversation on the MFMCRGO board and that it was ok to carry

Ken, can you provide some sort of documentation on this?

I would like to take it to the meeting with me.

Not that I dont trust you...Just like to be extra sure!! :P

No...you may want to contact fleadick at the old org (or even neva...she saves every frickin communication ever made by man)...I'm sure they have copies of all the old mess boards before they took them down

[Slatherd]

I used to work at the Indian Springs Golf Course for a summer. I asked the resident ranger there and he didnt know. So I wrote to the head office. They told me that that verbage on the website does not apply to CCW holders.

Problem is, I dont have the original.

I have never seen a no weapons sign at any metro park.

[45 acp]

Well done, Mr. Xxxxxx!

Betcha a nickel you don't hear from them again.

Your on!! :D

This may have nothing to do with CCW but I found meeting minutes that state:

Mr. Howard Chanter, Chief Park Ranger for Huron-Clinton Metroparks stated that he and Mr. Greg Almas were attending as a result of the letter from the MCOLES they received indicating the action the board had taken on April 11, 2002. This action ceased the activation of certification for new officers employed by his agency. As a result, his staff and legal counsel have been working with Mr. Gary Ruffini of the MCOLES staff. He stated that Mr. Ruffini’s assistance was very helpful and thanked him for a great job. He reaffirmed his position on the letter that was sent by the Director of Huron-Clinton Metroparks indicating their desire to seek legislation enabling them to function as an independent law enforcement agency. He stated that he had spoken to the five sheriffs in his area and they have all sent letters of support and will assist in any way they can. He asked that the Commission consider options to give his agency relief while they are
seeking this legislation.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/comm8-20-02_48050_7.pdf



Then again it might have a lot to do with CCW


2004 House Bill 5906 (Authorize new law enforcement agencies ):
Introduced by Rep. William Van Regenmorter on May 13, 2004. Passed in the House
(85 to 16) on July 14, 2004, to authorize new law enforcement agencies for the
Detroit and Grand Rapids school districts, and for multicounty metropolitan
park districts.
Details and Comments: http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=126015

This would make the park rangers LEO's and we would be required to disclose to them if we were carrying.

[G22]

This would make the park rangers LEO's and we would be required to disclose to them if we were carrying.

That dosen't bother me in the least, as long as were able to carry. :wink:

Still...holding...breath...waiting...for...responce...

[Jim Simmons]

Still...holding...breath...waiting...for...responce...

{Clearing a place in my pocket for the brand new nickel I'm gonna get.} :biggrin:

[Kouger]

Still...holding...breath...waiting...for...responce...

{Clearing a place in my pocket for the brand new nickel I'm gonna get.} :biggrin:


but Jim.... I didnt see a thing about it being brand NEW

[G22]

Jim, dont get too ahead of yourself now.
Technnically, I did get a "responce" from Chief Chanter...:

Kevin,
I am in receipt of your correspondence. I have pulled up the MCL and read it over. I have printed off a copy and am sending it off to our legal staff for a quick review. I can assure you I will get back with you as soon as I hear from them. I can also assure you that if any changes need to be taken in this matter we will do so.

Thank You,
Howard Chanter
Chief of Police

I won't collect until I actually get an answer to my question though. :D

I hope I didn't open a can of worms here getting his "legal staff" involved with my question. :?

[Jim Simmons]

Kouger; it'll be brand new to me; it'll be a nickel I didn't have before.

That is, if I win.

[Kouger]

Kouger; it'll be brand new to me; it'll be a nickel I didn't have before.

That is, if I win.

ok.you wint his one.rofl

[45 acp]

This would make the park rangers LEO's and we would be required to disclose to them if we were carrying.

That dosen't bother me in the least, as long as were able to carry. :wink:

Still...holding...breath...waiting...for...responce...

What Bothers me is that someone from out of the area could get charged for failing to disclose. Simply because he thought he was talking to a Park ranger or a school security guard.
This makes school security guards LEO'S in only two school districts in the state. The rest are just security guards. The same for Metro parks all other parks in the state the are only rangers.

How are we as CCW holders suppose to keep up on this.

[G22]

I hear what your saying 45acp.

Jim, is that the sound of a nickel getting closer!!?
I only hope this comes out in a positive way. :?

Kevin,
Just a quick update on your request. I have sent copies of the MCL to all our Metroparks. The area commanders are going to have it reviewed by the local prosecuting attorney's that prosecute all our court cases. Upon their review which may take three or four days I will let you know what their opinions are in its regards.

Thanks again,
H. Chanter
Chief of Police

[mkls0]

I was ther today and it was not posted .....

[G22]

Mr. Simmons, please put the nickel you owe me into my rainy day legal fund!!! :lol:

Kevin,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Busy time of year. Anyways, I have contacted our District commanders and they in turn have contacted their local prosecutors. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that the City of Ferndale ruling does supercede local ordinance reference where a firearm can be legally carried. Most of the prosecutors were agreed that we shouldn't change the ordinances pending any challenges that may arise.
The question you asked, I believe, was "Can I carry a concealed weapon with a legal CCW permit within the boundaries of any Metropark without concern of arrest or ticket issued based on local ordinances?" The answer is "YES".
Are commanders have not had one single incident with a licensed CCW holder since the new law has been put into effect. They stated that on occasion park patrons have seen guns on people and called for police. After insuring they are properly licensed we have asked them to keep the weapon out of sight of other park patrons to alleviate any potential problems. To the last person that has happened. As long as that type of cooperation is there we anticipate no problems.
I hope this answers your questions. If you continue to have questions in this matter please feel free to call me (248 685-1561) or stop by the Kensington Park office and I would be happy to talk to you.

Thank you

Howard Chanter
Chief of Police

Metroparks are not CEZ's :D :D :D

[Ken P]

cool...so next years picnic/election/meeting can be at a metropark....

[sprink]

WOW!

[Jim Simmons]

I'll be danged.

One nickel, credited to Kevin.

Heck, I'm so suprised . . . make it . . . SIX cents.

[Kouger]

Kouger; it'll be brand new to me; it'll be a nickel I didn't have before.

That is, if I win.

well now.I guess thats something we dont have to debate anymore right Partner

[Roger Roney]

Kevin,

Thanks for the good work!!

You should frame or mount that six cents, as a reminder that for once, we were glad to see Jim lose. :D :D

Roger

[bluethunder]

Kevin,

Thanks for the good work!!

You should frame or mount that six cents, as a reminder that for once, we were glad to see Jim lose. :D :D

Roger

Here, here! Great job, Kevin. Hate to see Jim lose one, but if he has to, I'm glad it was this one.

[Jim Simmons]

I don't think of it as a loss if justice is served.

Well done, Kevin.

[G22]

Nobody looses on this one, Its a win win for all!!

Except the bad guys. :D

[bluethunder]

Glad we got that settled. Now for the important stuff, Kevin, whatcha gonna do with your new windfall? :D

[Tallbear]

Nobody looses on this one, Its a win win for all!!

Except the bad guys. :D

Does that mean I get a nickel, too?? :roll:

[G22]

Nope sorry, but I will give you my .02!!! :P