Shotgun deer hunting

[balrog006]

You're not plinking with these guns, so no need to worry about recoil.

Negative perception of and reaction to recoil can and does effect accuracy negatively, for a one shot chance at a trophy or meat for the freezer, responsible hunters should try to be their most accurate.

[xtrema312]

Calculations only tell some of the story. Don't forget to include the sabot as part of the initial projectile weight. Then there is powder burn rate, recoil pad, stock flex, muzzle break..... i have 870 slug guns in 12 and 20, 1100 slug gun in 12, AR 450, 44 mag rifle, and 450 Ruger American to name some of my southern Michigan deer guns. The Ruger 450 with break is more comfortable to shoot than all but the 44 and maybe the 20 870, but I didn't shoot that one recently to compare. I actually think the RA is real close to the 20 870 for perceived recoil. It has less than the AR 450 for me. Less than any 12 I have. I have shoot the SST's and other very comparable slugs for velocity and projectile weight so the calculated recoil with the listed loads is something that I've had hands-on experience with. I also shoot a fast SST/ shockwave 250 I the inline. RA is Hands down the most accurate. It would be the cheapest to shot of I didn't load 44. Once I get enough 450 brass, I'll start reloading it, and it'll blow away slug gun ammo costs. No more high-dollar slug gun loads that I have to test every time somebody changes the load, discontinues my favorite one, a new lot doesn't perform like the old lot, or I get a new slug gun rig in hopes of producing even close to the almost boringly repetitive accuracy of the RA. Now I just have to figure out to what to do with all the time and money that I spent fiddling around with slug guns for the last 40 years. I am sure I will figure out something.

[Johnny Reb]

Well, I shot my Rem 870 12 gauge with Remington high velocity 3 inch 7/8 ounce loads at 1875 fps. Let's just say at 6'1 and 230 lbs, it rocked me back, and It felt like Mike Tyson slugged me in the shoulder. Zero fun, one and done. Next year will be using a different slug, or my new 20 gauge.

[Leader]

Well, I shot my Rem 870 12 gauge with Remington high velocity 3 inch 7/8 ounce loads at 1875 fps. Let's just say at 6'1 and 230 lbs, it rocked me back, and It felt like Mike Tyson slugged me in the shoulder. Zero fun, one and done. Next year will be using a different slug, or my new 20 gauge.

As much as I dislike my Mossberg 695, I didn't even notice the recoil or sound when I took the one shot that put venison in the freezer this year.
Target shooting (or sighting in as I call it) it is BRUTAL with 2.75" Remington Sluggers as is my 20ga.

This has been my experience when hunting for the last 60 yrs.

[xtrema312]

Well, I shot my Rem 870 12 gauge with Remington high velocity 3 inch 7/8 ounce loads at 1875 fps. Let's just say at 6'1 and 230 lbs, it rocked me back, and It felt like Mike Tyson slugged me in the shoulder. Zero fun, one and done. Next year will be using a different slug, or my new 20 gauge.

Shooting a slug gun testing ammo and sighting in is not fun most times. I usually like to put on a little heavier jacket or toss some padding under my shirt to replicate what I'll be wearing for hunting when possible. It helps. I've never seen the advantage of 3 inch slugs. I've personally never tested one any more accurate than 2 3/4" slugs. I've also found that I've gotten my best accuracy with slugs running in the 1500 to 1700 velocity. Real high velocity stuff has never really outperformed other options in accuracy, and I've never really seen where I need to get that last couple hundred feet per second at reasonable shotgun slug hunting ranges.

I do personally like 20 gauge slug gun now that slug load technology for them has improved greatly over the years. I personally see no need for using a 12 now unless you're planning on using one shotgun for everything you could hunt in Michigan, and then it makes sense.

[trucker3573]

If you are going to spend 450 at dunhams I surely wouldn't do it on a slug gun that is for sure.

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[steve77]

Recoil is figured with a formula that uses bullet wt, velocity, charge weight and speed, and gun weight.
V = ( b*v + c*p ) / W
where b is the bullet's weight, v the muzzle velocity, c the charge weight, p the average velocity of the escaping propellant gases, and W is the rifle's weight.
The NRA Fact Book 1988 gives some estimates for p. For small arms, the gas velocity is about 4000 fps for smokeless

According to Hornady their 20 slug load drives a 250gr SST @ 1800 fps and their 450 bushmaster load the same 250gr SST @ 2200 fps. Powder charge runs around 25gr for the 20ga and 35gr for the 450.
A 12 ga Hornady SST load has a 300gr bullet @ 2000fps

A Ruger American Ranch rifle weights 5.5lbs empty. A Remington 870 depending on stock weighs between 7 and 8 lbs.

The calculator on this page figures the 20 ga @~13.5 ft/lb, the 12ga @ 23.5 and the 450 @ 27.5ft/lbs free recoil using these numbers with 7# for the shotty. http://handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Now that the fun is gone from the argument...

How does the muzzle brake on the Ruger .450 affect the calculation?

[Ol` Joe]

How does the muzzle brake on the Ruger .450 affect the calculation?

The formula itself remains valid, but the gas and powder ejecta mass and its speed are diverted to some degree from the muzzle to the ports in the side of the muzzle. The amount of diverted gases and just what direction they escape the porting offsets some of the rearward recoil. The higher the muzzle pressure and amount of gas the higher the amount of recoil reduction.

[miked]

My 450BM (AR) without a muzzle break does not beat me up nearly as bad as my 12g slug gun (semi) or my muzzleloader.

But thats just my perception, no mathematical facts to back it up.

[Johnny Reb]

Has anyone ever used any of the low velocity slugs for hunting? If you have, what were the results as far as accuracy and lethality?