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  1. #1
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    .410 000 patterns

    I understand that the .410 is generally thought to be a poor HD/SD chambering. Out of something like the judge I would have to agree

    But after reading about Dixie Slug's Triball, it got me thinking about patterns.

    Does anyone have any experience with shooting .410 000 buck (three pellets stacked vertically in the shell, very little potential for interfering with each other) out of a "normal" barrel length? say 18-28"?

    I imagine it would pattern very well out of something like an 870 with almost zero recoil....could be an overlooked HD option for the recoil sensative.

    let the flaming begin...

  2. #2
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    While some gun is better than no gun.....

    my thoughts would be for "recoil sensative" folks to go to a 9mm or similar carbine for HD so as to have the tools adequate to get the job done.

  3. #3
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    20 gauge

    AR15 (much more expensive)
    AK74

    or basically any kind of semi-auto rifle

    .410 just doesn't pack enough punch.

  4. #4
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    OK guys, I appreciate the responses but try and read the OP thoroughly before responding. The question was about pattern size, not whether the .410 is the best choice for HD.

    That said, the Winchester SuperX 3" .410 000 shell (first one that came up when I searched) is loaded with 5 (not 3 as I first thought) 000 pellets stacked vertically. Published velocity is 1135fps. This is almost identical, maybe a few FPS slower, to a low recoil 12 gauge 000 or 00 buck round commonly used for HD.

    Now, since I could blow off 2 or 3 .410 rounds out of a pump in very short order, and if all 5 of those pellets stayed as tight as I suspect they would, I'd say the .410 has been unfairly maligned.

    Please note, I have 3 870 12 gauges loaded with low recoil 00 scattered (ha) around the house. I am not saying the .410 is a replacement for a more capable caliber. It is just so often bashed and dismissed I thought I would do a little investigation. I guess the only way to know for sure is find a .410 and test it myself...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Done Deal
    my thoughts would be for "recoil sensative" folks to go to a 9mm or similar carbine for HD so as to have the tools adequate to get the job done.
    I'm thinking less for recoil sensative than I am for someone who wants a VERY tight pattern out of a shotgun. The TriBall load can be covered with a palm at 40 yards...inside of that its even closer. Now a properly set up 12 gauge can also achieve very nice patterns if you know what you're doing, but if the .410 patterns as well as i suspect given that the shot is stacked vertically, I might rather have that than a 20 or 12 that throws a 12" pattern at 15 yards. IMHO, keeping all the pellets inside a torso is the name of the game for HD. Just food for thought.

  6. #6
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    I don't know much about the .410, but I did get one a few months ago. With my first box of shells, I looked at the target and saw the pattern, plus a big hole as part of the pattern. I guess they put one or more discs in there. That's quite a combination. I have seen ads for I believe Winchester .410 ammo that does mention the shot plus inclusion of the larger disc of copper plated lead. Also, I see there are wheel guns chambered in a .410. At close range that may be prettty effective.

  7. #7
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    http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwbuck.html

    I'd like to see what it patterns like at 5-10 yards.

    Some penetration tests would be nice too.

  8. #8
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    Mine is a singe shot, 28" barrel shot gun. 10 yds or less the pattern looked pretty good. I'd like to see the pattern out of a short barrel wheelgun.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulB84
    Now, since I could blow off 2 or 3 .410 rounds out of a pump in very short order, and if all 5 of those pellets stayed as tight as I suspect they would, I'd say the .410 has been unfairly maligned.
    Unfairly maligned as far as patterns or performance? Everybody knows that a .410 shoots everything tight....that is why they make such a lousy first shotgun for kids trying to learn how to wingshoot. Granted, they are hell on bunnies but....

    So, for smooth bores....it is the mini gun of the group and the big brothers do things better so, why spend good money on .410 ammo (which never goes on sale) to come up with a load that will always be inferior for killing power?

    And, isn't it really lethality you are thinking about rather than pattern?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sse
    I don't know much about the .410, but I did get one a few months ago. With my first box of shells, I looked at the target and saw the pattern, plus a big hole as part of the pattern. I guess they put one or more discs in there. That's quite a combination. I have seen ads for I believe Winchester .410 ammo that does mention the shot plus inclusion of the larger disc of copper plated lead. Also, I see there are wheel guns chambered in a .410. At close range that may be prettty effective.
    What .410 did you get? I'd be very interested to see how 000 buck loads perform out of a full length barrel.

    the problem with guns like the judge (or any rifled barrel firing a shotshell) is that the rifling "slings" the shot in a doughnut shape with a big empty spot right in the middle. Now, again, the .410 is unique in that the shot is stacked vertically which somewhat eliminates the issue, but with birdshot it still sucks.

    An interesting fact is that some of the long range predator and turkey chokes for 12 gauge have rifling but with no twist, just straight lands and grooves parallel to the barrel. They claim this lines the shot up in neat rows as it exits the barrel, giving tighter patterns. I have always wondered if it was possible to apply this principle to the entire length of the barrel and have a VERY tight patterning gun. AFAIK I've never heard of a gun that utilizes this.

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