Jeff,
Thank you for introducing yourself. As to the things you listed:
If public institutions can "opt out" it guts preemption and we start down a road where every city has thier own rules as to whether they honor CPLs. If the State of Michigan insists certain public institutions be out of bounds for carry, then force them to list those. Any other way and we face death by a thousand cuts trying to fight every city council, every school board and every county seat.Originally Posted by Barrettone
Let me get this straight. Your proposing 3 levels of CPLs now? Four if you count that fact of the various "exempted classes" we already have?Originally Posted by Barrettone
1) basic CPL
2) Enhanced CPL needing additional training (more money)
3) extra special enhanced CPL with added training and a favor from the sherriff
4) "exempted classes" such as retired cops, PIs and such.
1st off, the school issue was the latest line of excuses from the govenor. He does not support carrying in the "pistol free zones" and likely never will. We should plan on having to get the support needed to override a veto, and pushing the legislature to act early enough thatthey have time to do so.
2nd, taking schools out of the equation gaurantees that we will NEVER be able to carry in a school (open or concealed). The govenor will not sign it and most of the legislature will not support it without addressing the loophole that allows OC with a CPL. We may be able to keep that in PFZs where we changed the law to be able to carry concealed. We are highly unlikely to keep it in a PFZ where its been reinforced that we still can't carry. Asking the sherriffs permission is a joke. They are unlikely to grant that without a "official" reason (such as for a school superintendant or school security with the permission of the school board). For us mere mortals, and for teachers who want to carry, the answer will always be "NO" (unless you have deep pockets and your sherriff is willing to trade favors for donations - somethign that was not uncommon before shall issue).
3rd, I don't know about anyone else, but I cannot suport ANY push or ANY bill that allows someone in the government to exercise "may issue" again.
I agree the bill should take the legal liabilities away from the sheriffs department, provided they meet the requirements in the law. Legal and financial liabilities should be in place if they fail to issue in a timely fasion, if they fail to perform the duties required to issue licenses, or if they add local requirements to it.Originally Posted by Barrettone
The "legal liabilities" related to granting the exemptions for school zones you propose are a red herring. Sheriffs may use them as a smokescreen, but the reality is they are not going to support your average CPL holder carrying in a school zone anyway. They have a different mindset. A cop with a gun is good and safe no matter what and a private person is a shooting waiting to happen.
To give an example of the mindset difference, I saw an incident at a local high school football game. A couple of kids, joking with an officer outside the game made as if to climb the fence to get in. He partially drew his sidearm at them. To him it was a joke. To me (behind and to his side), and to the kids, it was less funny and somewhat more serious.
if you think it is best to take an incremental approach, we can do that in much better ways. Examples:Originally Posted by Barrettone
- Go after individual PFZs instead of all of them.
- Clarify that the Church PFZ is only the buildings, not the parking lots and Church owned property.
- Remove Churches and Day Cares from the "automatic" PFZ and make them PFZs only if they post at each and every entrance.
- Take the wind out of companies that ban firearms by pushing a bill that your car is an extension of your domicile and what is in it, out of sight, they cannot prohibit. They can either let you park on company parking lots or not, but they can't search your car or fire you for whats in it.
- Propose a school PFZ exemption for teachers and staff that work in the school district and parents with students enrolled in the district only.
- Propose that if the school is the location for voting for the area, the school grounds and voting area of the school is not a PFZ on election day. If the school district doesn't like it, they can have the kids stay home that day.
There are other ideas as well.
(please forgive the spelling / typos)