NO CROSSBOW

[Webb]

:hot: :hot: I am reluctant to share this for I absolutely dont want to advertise. You people that are capable, better be shooting a compound during archery season. We the bow hunters need to get this removed!!!!!! DNRE what are you trying??
Its not even about game management anymore its all about the cash!!!!
BULLS!!! Early doe seasons , youth season before open archery and legalized crossbow and 5 doe tags a day!!!. There is not going to be any deer left!!! So go ahead people 5 does a day with a crossbow hell you can shoot the baby spike horn too. WTF DNRE REALLY
:gavel:

[pkuptruck]

:hot: :hot: I am reluctant to share this for I absolutely dont want to advertise. You people that are capable, better be shooting a compound during archery season. We the bow hunters need to get this removed!!!!!! DNRE what are you trying??
Its not even about game management anymore its all about the cash!!!!
BULLS!!! Early doe seasons , youth season before open archery and legalized crossbow and 5 doe tags a day!!!. There is not going to be any deer left!!! So go ahead people 5 does a day with a crossbow hell you can shoot the baby spike horn too. WTF DNRE REALLY
:gavel:



good morning! glad you finally woke up to this.... :tsk:

you also forgot to mention the new "trophy" style rules.... and of course the
forced indoctrination into QDM....

The DNRe is no longer a conservation/management authority... it is rather a
cash generation machine...

[miked]

Have you ever shot a crossbow? And honestly, how many people are going to harvest 5 deer a day?

Crossbows are bulky, heavy and are not that much more accurate then a decent compound bow shooter. They also do not have any more range then a normal bow, in some cases less due to the bolts weighing less than a full length arrow.

I've been an archer my whole life (shooting target, 3D, etc) and was very reluctant about them at fist, until I shot one. Once I realized that I can't shoot it much better than I can my other bows, my opinion of them changed. (actually the one I shot, a Parker Enforcer, wouldn't shoot as accurately or as consistently for me as my compound bow.)

[pkuptruck]

Have you ever shot a crossbow? And honestly, how many people are going to harvest 5 deer a day?

Crossbows are bulky, heavy and are not that much more accurate then a decent compound bow shooter. They also do not have any more range then a normal bow, in some cases less due to the bolts weighing less than a full length arrow.

I've been an archer my whole life (shooting target, 3D, etc) and was very reluctant about them at fist, until I shot one. Once I realized that I can't shoot it much better than I can my other bows, my opinion of them changed. (actually the one I shot, a Parker Enforcer, wouldn't shoot as accurately or as consistently for me as my compound bow.)


+1 on the crossbows..

I got one, just for Sh**s and giggles... 150lb compound type..

these are HEAVY, and in a tree stand... a real PITA to cock ( although a crank MAY be a slight bit easier..)

I dont see any real ADVANTAGE.... to using one.... but I tend not to crap on someones caliber choice of rifles either....:score:

[Webb]

Have you ever shot a crossbow? And honestly, how many people are going to harvest 5 deer a day?

Crossbows are bulky, heavy and are not that much more accurate then a decent compound bow shooter. They also do not have any more range then a normal bow, in some cases less due to the bolts weighing less than a full length arrow.

I've been an archer my whole life (shooting target, 3D, etc) and was very reluctant about them at fist, until I shot one. Once I realized that I can't shoot it much better than I can my other bows, my opinion of them changed. (actually the one I shot, a Parker Enforcer, wouldn't shoot as accurately or as consistently for me as my compound bow.)
telling me that you cant get more yardage and accuratcy from a bolt with heaver broad head at 350 fps? thats it hunters wont be in the tree they will be in ground blinds

[enigmatical]

Cross bow 'hunters' no longer need to become proficient with a bow and certainly have an advantage in a typical tree stand---even shanties (at grade or elevated) that were not previously compatable with normal archery equipment.

Combine that with optics of one sort or another and there will be a ton of bolt blasters that think they can shoot deer as far as they now can hit the target.

It is going to take a few years of unrecovered deer to make a point but, meanwhile, the DNRE has made its money in licenses and retailers have reaped the profits of selling additional gadgetry to hunters.

I can see cross bows for some people but, far too many 'hunters' have simply gone to them because of the ease of shooting accurately.

Bottom line is, it is about the dollars that change hands and not about the health of the herd.

[RSF]

how does worry abouyt nyour own yard how you hunt and not others i supoise ar-15/ak have no purpose either you sound like those *******s at MBHA


I hunt with recurve. compound and crossbow so what and have done so indifferent states and countries.... Ohio seams to have no issue with it or many others and have much better deer herds and bucks oh yah there DRNE is smart and well run unlike ours dont blame the gear blame those running the show

also i have seen more guys and gals this year in the woods getting back into hunting due to allowance of crossbows and many new hunters its good to see and it has zero effect on my hunts go spout your ******** on M-sportman along with the other greedy *******s that thinnk they own the woods

[RSF]

wow same thing the stick bow guys said about compounds too......

[enigmatical]

Hunters spent money to get out there, and that was the plan.

I have no issue with a crossbow, what I take exception to is the way that the state is handling the deer herd.

Michigan 'hunters' just don't seem to have a clue and the state isn't helping with that at all.

A crossbow will only be in the same league as a wheelie, a recurve, or a stick bow when you have to draw it at the time you want to shoot it.

Cocked and locked is not bow hunting, it is bolt hunting and there is a major difference in the eyes of many.

[pkuptruck]

Cocked and locked is not bow hunting, it is bolt hunting and there is a major difference in the eyes of many.


and a "semi-auto" is not hunting.... it is reckless shooting".. only single shots, or bolt actions should be used... "

Sort of high-brow opinion, aint it? What if someone wants to remove your OPTIONS to hunting? Would that be ok as well?

While I sort of agree with you on the DNRe mishandling of the seasons....
I cannot agree to the specialization of hardware.....

[Webb]

Hunters spent money to get out there, and that was the plan.

I have no issue with a crossbow, what I take exception to is the way that the state is handling the deer herd.

Michigan 'hunters' just don't seem to have a clue and the state isn't helping with that at all.

A crossbow will only be in the same league as a wheelie, a recurve, or a stick bow when you have to draw it at the time you want to shoot it.

Cocked and locked is not bow hunting, it is bolt hunting and there is a major difference in the eyes of many.
amen save it for rifle or blackpowder seasons

[miked]

I'll ask again, has anyone making negative comments on crossbows ever shot one?


Cross bow 'hunters' no longer need to become proficient with a bow and certainly have an advantage in a typical tree stand---even shanties (at grade or elevated) that were not previously compatable with normal archery equipment.

I can shoot my compound/recurves from a lot more shanties/blindsstands than I can a crossbow. Crossbows require a lot of horizontal space.


Combine that with optics of one sort or another and there will be a ton of bolt blasters that think they can shoot deer as far as they now can hit the target.

I can't argue with that but you have that now with guns and bows


It is going to take a few years of unrecovered deer to make a point but, meanwhile, the DNRE has made its money in licenses and retailers have reaped the profits of selling additional gadgetry to hunters.

That will remain to be seen.


I can see cross bows for some people but, far too many 'hunters' have simply gone to them because of the ease of shooting accurately.

Just like people went from stuck bows to compounds or compounds to rifles. People are always looking for an easy out but whatever tool you use, practice is required. How many hunters only shoot their bows once before the season starts? How many gun hunters never take their rifle to the range after their initial sight in? How may hunters have never shot their rifle that the gun shot sighted in for them?


Bottom line is, it is about the dollars that change hands and not about the health of the herd.

I don't doubt that that was a factor.



I hunt with compound, recurve or longbow during the archery season, depending on my mood. I don't currently hunt with a crossbow. I have no vested interest in them but I'll be damned if I'm going to bash it just because it's not for me at the moment. The "I don't like them so no one should use them " mentality is counterproductive to the whole fight and the very reason that the anti's are even as effective as they are. That fact that people don't see that frustrates the hell out of me.

[Webb]

I'll ask again, has anyone making negative comments on crossbows ever shot one?



I can shoot my compound/recurves from a lot more shanties/blindsstands than I can a crossbow. Crossbows require a lot of horizontal space.



I can't argue with that but you have that now with guns and bows



That will remain to be seen.



Just like people went from stuck bows to compounds or compounds to rifles. People are always looking for an easy out but whatever tool you use, practice is required. How many hunters only shoot their bows once before the season starts? How many gun hunters never take their rifle to the range after their initial sight in? How may hunters have never shot their rifle that the gun shot sighted in for them?



I don't doubt that that was a factor.



I hunt with compound, recurve or longbow during the archery season, depending on my mood. I don't currently hunt with a crossbow. I have no vested interest in them but I'll be damned if I'm going to bash it just because it's not for me at the moment. The "I don't like them so no one should use them " mentality is counterproductive to the whole fight and the very reason that the anti's are even as effective as they are. That fact that people don't see that frustrates the hell out of me.

Dont bash crossbows they just should not be used during archery season

[miked]

Dont bash crossbows they just should not be used during archery season


Have you shot one or are you making you decision based on perception and media hype?

They are not the end all be all deer killer and archery season ender that a lot of people believe they are.

[Webb]

Have you shot one or are you making you decision based on perception and media hype?

They are not the end all be all deer killer and archery season ender that a lot of people believe they are.
yes I shot one a friend has on with a 150# pull that cocks and locks and you just pick it up, safty, squeeze. has a scope and penatrates my block at 50 yards

[enigmatical]

I'll ask again, has anyone making negative comments on crossbows ever shot one?

Yes, a bullseye every time I squeezed the trigger. Benchrests are wonderful things.

I can shoot my compound/recurves from a lot more shanties/blindsstands than I can a crossbow. Crossbows require a lot of horizontal space.

Can you shoot your compound/recurve from a benchrest? Compounds and recurves and stick bows require a lot of vertical space and the ability to draw the bow without getting busted by the intended target.

I don't currently hunt with a crossbow. I have no vested interest in them but I'll be damned if I'm going to bash it just because it's not for me at the moment. The "I don't like them so no one should use them " mentality is counterproductive to the whole fight and the very reason that the anti's are even as effective as they are. That fact that people don't see that frustrates the hell out of me.

I don't bow hunt with a cross bow either. When the time comes that I cannot draw a bow, then it will be time to go afield cocked and locked.

You seem to be missing the "mentality" of the issue to some degree. What many hunters have an issue with is the states continued focus on revenue and certain public impressions than it really does on creating an environment for a deer herd that can actually produce mature white tails in huntable numbers.

Meanwhile, we have gone from a bucks only mentality to if it is brown it is down with little regard for many of the factors that seem to be successful for other states. Why do you suppose that is?

[GPintheMitten]

Bows? Real hunters use spears. J/K

To each his own. I don't think it is the hunter's gear choice that matters but rather his practices in the field.

[dougwg]

yes I shot one a friend has on with a 150# pull that cocks and locks and you just pick it up, safty, squeeze. has a scope and penatrates my block at 50 yards
So you're saying it's "more deadly"?

GOOD!

I'm sick and tired of downing a dear only to find out later that it had 1 or 2 or 3 broad heads stuck in it.

Oh.... and quitchurbichin

[dougwg]

Bows? Real hunters use spears. J/K

To each his own. I don't think it is the hunter's gear choice that matters but rather his practices in the field.
Very much so!

Great post!

[Webb]

So you're saying it's "more deadly"?

GOOD!

I'm sick and tired of downing a dear only to find out later that it had 1 or 2 or 3 broad heads stuck in it.

Oh.... and quitchurbichin

SO your saying from OCT 1 to Jan 1 use whatever weapon you want?

[dougwg]

SO your saying from OCT 1 to Jan 1 use whatever weapon you want?
Hell no!

I'm sure some moron will try to use a sling-shot or BB gun.

My point is don't piss on someone else's parade if you don't like people pissing on yours.

You get all upset about crossbows and complain about them so I complained about bow's.

Trying to get you to think, we're all brothers, start treating others that way.

If you have a problem with the MDNR and DMU's then make a post about that but don't mix the 2 subjects.

People should be able to hunt with anything that is safe and effective.

[miked]

yes I shot one a friend has on with a 150# pull that cocks and locks and you just pick it up, safty, squeeze. has a scope and penatrates my block at 50 yards

:thumbup:


I don't bow hunt with a cross bow either. When the time comes that I cannot draw a bow, then it will be time to go afield cocked and locked.

My point is that fighting them now may mean that there is not even the option when "you" need it.


You seem to be missing the "mentality" of the issue to some degree. What many hunters have an issue with is the states continued focus on revenue and certain public impressions than it really does on creating an environment for a deer herd that can actually produce mature white tails in huntable numbers.

I'm not missing the mentality of the issue. The states focus on revenue and the effectiveness of the crossbow or two separate issues. I have the same effective range and lethality with my bow as another has with a crossbow. I'm just failing to see where the crossbow is such a bad thing given that fact.


Can you shoot your compound/recurve from a benchrest? Compounds and recurves and stick bows require a lot of vertical space and the ability to draw the bow without getting busted by the intended target.

No I cannot shoot from a bench, nor do I need to. Yes I need I little more vertical space, but not that much for my compact compounds and recurves.



Meanwhile, we have gone from a bucks only mentality to if it is brown it is down with little regard for many of the factors that seem to be successful for other states. Why do you suppose that is?

I'm not a rack hunter nor am I a "if it's brown it's down " type of hunter. I hunt for the joy of being in the woods, seeing things that most never do and for the opportunity to put food on the table. I've gone deerless more seasons than not. Many of the arguments made today against crossbows are the same ones made against compounds when they gained popularity.

I won't disagree that the DNRE has made some decisions that appear to be based in money rather than the game/resources best interest. But I think that is a different discussion.



Hell no!

I'm sure some moron will try to use a sling-shot or BB gun.

My point is don't piss on someone else's parade if you don't like people pissing on yours.

You get all upset about crossbows and complain about them so I complained about bow's.

Trying to get you to think, we're all brothers, start treating others that way.

If you have a problem with the MDNR and DMU's then make a post about that but don't mix the 2 subjects.

People should be able to hunt with anything that is safe and effective.

:yeahthat:

[Tom Fineis]

Man has always used the best technology at their disposal to take game. First knives and spears, then atlatl's, then stick bows, then recurves, then crossbows (hint- crossbows were invented thousands of years before compounds), then firearms, then compounds, etc....

And at every stage I'm sure there was somebody standing on his soap box about how his way of hunting is the only acceptable way. It's the same every time...

Get out and hunt your own hunt. Quit worrying about what everyone else is doing. We are our own worst enemy...

[hammer dan]

yes its about the money Its always been about the money everything any branch of government does is about the money get a clue

[mechredd]

While I haven't bow hunted in years, I have shot recurves compounds and crossbows. I find that all 3 have their merits and problems. I feel that regular bows are the most fun and satisfying to shoot, but I also feel that crossbows are a legitimate hunting tool and should be allowed during deer season. I also agree that the DNRe's main goal isn't conservation or wildlife protection, but revenue generation. As for the BB gun comment above, google the "dragon slayer" pellet rifle. I'd deer hunt with that.

[enigmatical]

Man has always used the best technology at their disposal to take game. First knives and spears, then atlatl's, then stick bows, then recurves, then crossbows (hint- crossbows were invented thousands of years before compounds), then firearms, then compounds, etc....

And at every stage I'm sure there was somebody standing on his soap box about how his way of hunting is the only acceptable way. It's the same every time...

Get out and hunt your own hunt. Quit worrying about what everyone else is doing. We are our own worst enemy...

Again, part of the point of this is not so much the use of crossbows as an effective tool to get the job done but, the way that the DNR has chosen to regulate the taking of game. One cannot overlook that the Michigan hunter mentality is not well received everywhere. We have some lousy weapons laws and some lousy game laws. Until we recognize that fact and make a concerted effort to change the perceptions, things are not going to get better.

Meanwhile, the whack 'em and stack 'em crowd has another tool to take as many deer as the DNR will sell them licenses and quite possibly more due to people trying to stretch their arr...er....bolts.

We need to look at the big picture, not just crossbows or bag limits or sex by themselves if we are going to get new hunters and retain the ones that we have. Unfortunately, we just don't seem to have the people in place that will make the difficult decisions.

[Bad Monkey]

The new crossbow regulation has messed up my sesion. My wife went out and bought a Parker Stinger. Not only is it pink, but now she thinks she should go to deer camp with me:cuss:


Really I hope she does well, more meat in the freezer. I don't see the advantage over a compound. Up close it has more power it, but seems to lose it faster then a bow and arrow. If it gets more people in to hunting its a good thing.

Remember the more people that stop hunting the better PETA does, lets get more hunting and on our side.

[TomE]

I should have bought 1 less pistol , and with that money bought a X-Bow . Until then I hate X-Bows

[enigmatical]

The new crossbow regulation has messed up my sesion. My wife went out and bought a Parker Stinger. Not only is it pink, but now she thinks she should go to deer camp with me:cuss:


Really I hope she does well, more meat in the freezer. I don't see the advantage over a compound. Up close it has more power it, but seems to lose it faster then a bow and arrow. If it gets more people in to hunting its a good thing.

Remember the more people that stop hunting the better PETA does, lets get more hunting and on our side.

The only real advantage I see (aside from the muscle, practice thing) is the fact that less movement is required to send a projectile and that means less chance of getting busted. While that may be a good thing (like somebody said, many hunters don't practice enough to be truly proficient) that can also lead to more wounded game as a result of poor decisions made prior to squeezing the trigger. It may take awhile for all these hunters with their new fangled cross bows to realize that they might not be able to effectively kill and recover deer any further away.

Oh well, we are where we are and, the DNR has been very instrumental in forming the deer hunting mentality that Michigan hunters have. C'est la vie.

[AMG08]

i would rather see some yokel with a crossbow shoot and actually kill a deer, than get his $5 garage sale bow out the day before season, shoot it, and call it good for the year. im in a unique position to see that everyday. so are you going to put your own personal feelings over the fact that they give more ethical kills? crossbows are easier to be consistant with, thats about where the benefits end for most people. i will shoot at a deer out to 50 yards with my bow. with my crossbow, i limit it to 40. past that, it gets to iffy.

ive seen numerous women, and 10-14 year olds, who were not strong enough to pull a bow, shoot a crossbow and realize they too can hunt. these young people are the future of hunting, no matter what weapon they use. so you want to limit them, because of uneducated, selfish reason? good going.

all the evidence you need is at our friendly neighbors to the south in ohio. full inclusion there has been going on for many years. funny how OH produces more P&Y bucks than michigan. so much for crossbows wiping out there herd.

your "holier than thou" attitude will kill this sport and lifestyle, not crossbows.

[zigziggityzoo]

Why should the government have a say, anyway?

Especially for private property...

[bad86ta]

Why should the government have a say, anyway?

Especially for private property...

Kinda hard to disagree with this....

I can understand having to pay and wouldn't mind paying to hunt on state land but it always burns me a little when I have to spend money on countless hunting licenses to hunt on MY OWN property....

I understand that my dollars "supposedly" go to animal and land managment and that's why it not a real big deal to me, but I also believe I should be able to do whatever I want to on my land...

[enigmatical]

Why should the government have a say, anyway?

Especially for private property...

If you want to flip for a fenced in enclosure for your private property and pay for your own herd, then you won't be bound by the hunting regulations established by the state.

Meanwhile, the rest of us recognize the fact that those deer are NOT private property and regulations obviously need to be in place. The trouble is, the guiding force behind the regulations does not always demonstrate sound management practices.

[wadevb1]

I bought a BowTech Stryker. Amazing crossbow that is quiet,fast and accurate. I don't know why I bought the thing...I have an excellent Mathews SB XT that put WTs' in the freezer at thirty yards.

I must admit, I'm a lil ashamed carrying it.
Those who say they are no more deadly are trying to fool you.

The Xbow is here to stay. You can't put the genie back into the bottle.

[zigziggityzoo]

If you want to flip for a fenced in enclosure for your private property and pay for your own herd, then you won't be bound by the hunting regulations established by the state.

Meanwhile, the rest of us recognize the fact that those deer are NOT private property and regulations obviously need to be in place. The trouble is, the guiding force behind the regulations does not always demonstrate sound management practices.

Deer aren't Private property, but they shouldn't be "public property" either.

They should be no one's property.

[enigmatical]

Deer aren't Private property, but they shouldn't be "public property" either.

They should be no one's property.

Thehy are no one's property. They are everybody's property.

And as such, the State has the responsibilty for proper management which obviously includes the drafting, implementating, and enforcement of certain regulations.

The question becomes, what interests are being served.

[wadevb1]

Deer aren't Private property, but they shouldn't be "public property" either.

They should be no one's property.

My property once transferred to the freezer.

[PDinDetroit]

For me, crossbows are great. I am left-handed with right-eye dominance and could never get past that to be accurate with a bow, no matter if I shot a compound bow righty or lefty (and I will not hunt without being ethical on my shots). When I started hunting 11 years ago, I thought about going to Ohio to bow hunt with a crossbow but never did (I wanted to bow hunt BADLY). I went with firearm instead, which I am plenty accurate with and have taken 10 deer in 10 hunting seasons.

With a crossbow, I can place 3 arrows inside a quarter at 25 yards. I taught my nephew to use and be accurate with a crossbow in 10 minutes and his results are posted in the 2010 Hunting Pictures on MGO (double-lung shot). He is now "hooked" on hunting and will go anytime I have available.

Here is the "beast" I use:

http://www.barnettcrossbows.com/product/predator

It has less of a horizontal footprint and I have used it to hunt from a blind, still-hunt, and a climbing tree stand. I now have basically 3 months of deer hunting season instead of 15 days, which means more time in the woods and money spent helping the economy in the local hunt areas.

[sparkman10mm]

Thank you Tommy,
Articulate , as always.

I have harvested literally over hundred deer in 35 years of hunting,
most have been with either a bow (compound) or my trusty Knight MK85
Grand American. Due to a bout of tenidinitis ,, I am relegated to
using my TenPoint crossbow for archery hunting. I utilized the crossbow last year to take two bucks, one a 123 5/8 P&Y. Both were taken at less than
20 yds. Does this make me less of hunter?...I don't think so.....Anybody
who believes these are "killing machines" is sadly mistaken. I have owned my
Tenpoint for 15 years or so, but only started hunting with it last year.
Acccurate to 50plys yard..oh yeah....are you going to kill a deer at 50?
I doubt it highly. 40 yds is as far as I feel comfortable shooting, and I have taken several at 40 yds w/ my Hoyt compound. The crossbow is heavy, cumbersome, and noisy. I would really rather use my Hoyt, but unfortunately
pyhsically unable to do so. The crossbow enables me to stay in the woods.

AS TF stated...hunt your own hunt..if it is a legal weopen for the season.
use it.....



Man has always used the best technology at their disposal to take game. First knives and spears, then atlatl's, then stick bows, then recurves, then crossbows (hint- crossbows were invented thousands of years before compounds), then firearms, then compounds, etc....

And at every stage I'm sure there was somebody standing on his soap box about how his way of hunting is the only acceptable way. It's the same every time...

Get out and hunt your own hunt. Quit worrying about what everyone else is doing. We are our own worst enemy...

[Dabears!]

Man has always used the best technology at their disposal to take game. First knives and spears, then atlatl's, then stick bows, then recurves, then crossbows (hint- crossbows were invented thousands of years before compounds), then firearms, then compounds, etc....

And at every stage I'm sure there was somebody standing on his soap box about how his way of hunting is the only acceptable way. It's the same every time...

Get out and hunt your own hunt. Quit worrying about what everyone else is doing. We are our own worst enemy...

This
so sick of hearing people bitch about crossbows

[Dansjeep2000]

how does worry abouyt nyour own yard how you hunt and not others i supoise ar-15/ak have no purpose either you sound like those *******s at MBHA


I hunt with recurve. compound and crossbow so what and have done so indifferent states and countries.... Ohio seams to have no issue with it or many others and have much better deer herds and bucks oh yah there DRNE is smart and well run unlike ours dont blame the gear blame those running the show

also i have seen more guys and gals this year in the woods getting back into hunting due to allowance of crossbows and many new hunters its good to see and it has zero effect on my hunts go spout your ******** on M-sportman along with the other greedy *******s that thinnk they own the woods
Well Said :thup:

[ninjatoth]

I think for the general non land owner population,the crossbow thing is no big deal:But for the landowner-it would be very easy and inexpensive to forget about all the camoflauge gear,treestands,and all the needed things for an archer hunter and go sit your fat butt in your groundblind with a $150 crossbow and wipe out your county's population of antlerless deer in 3 months.

[TRT]

Just to fan the flames a bit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6jCNceHT8o

[Skinner 2]

I go sit your fat butt in your groundblind with a $150 crossbow and wipe out your county's population of antlerless deer in 3 months.


Really how so??? Please explain this and why Ohio has used crossbow now for what 33 yaers or more and yet their deer heard and hunting season keep increasing. Where do you get your information from?

Skinner

[pkuptruck]

Really how so??? Please explain this and why Ohio has used crossbow now for what 33 yaers or more and yet their deer heard and hunting season keep increasing. Where do you get your information from?

Skinner



obviously .... he gets his info from the "internets".... that, and his pals that, between them, know everything....

oh, and BTW... I have heard crossbows lead to global warming....:coocoo:

[papabear]

go sit your fat butt in your groundblind with a $150 crossbow and wipe out your county's population of antlerless deer in 3 months.

Well I have been paying taxes on my private property for 26 years so I think I will just sit my fat butt anywhere on the property I want maybe even in a tree stand and wipe out the whole deer herd,and why take 3 months I got me one of them new super crossbow's should be able to get them all with one shot:stirpot:

[PDinDetroit]

obviously .... he gets his info from the "internets".... that, and his pals that, between them, know everything....

oh, and BTW... I have heard crossbows lead to global warming....:coocoo:

Yes, all that increased air friction due to the speed of those crossbow bolts flying at break-neck speeds... That, and all the "Hot Air" from people spewing nonsense about crossbows...

[pkuptruck]

Well I have been paying taxes on my private property for 26 years so I think I will just sit my fat butt anywhere on the property I want maybe even in a tree stand and wipe out the whole deer herd,and why take 3 months I got me one of them new super crossbow's should be able to get them all with one shot:stirpot:


LMAO...

from the tone of his posts.... I would imagine you dont even need to SHOOT the crossbow..... I guess the sheer power of OWNing one, makes every deer within 50-80 yards of it, suddenly DIE.....

let me know if you need help gutting them all! :biggrin:

[papabear]

A little off topic but was sitting in my blind and had a doe come out with a button buck had the evil crossbow locked and cocked and dead on her at 15 yards. I put it down pulled out the camera and took a picture instead and still never spooked her.If I new how I would post the pick.

[TRT]

It cracks me up hearing all the railing against crossbows, as if they're some new super slayer, or any more powerful than modern compound bows.

If I hear "WUT?? 150 LB DRAW WEIGHT? OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!1111" one more time, I'm going to murderize a whole litter of kittens.

Yes, the draw weight is 150lbs, but that weight is being applied to the arrow over a much shorter distance than a vertical bow. Therefore, roughly the same amount of cumulative force is being applied to a crossbow arrow, as is to a vertical bow arrow, producing roughly the same arrow speeds.

150# over 15.5" ...vs... 60# over 23"

[WoW]

Apparently, what concerns some people is the mentality exhibited by some hunters with their new fangled arrow shooter that think they can do more than they really can. Those misconceptions may be more of a problem than crossbow itself.

Nice site.

[miked]

Apparently, what concerns some people is the mentality exhibited by some hunters with their new fangled arrow shooter that think they can do more than they really can. Those misconceptions may be more of a problem than crossbow itself.

Nice site.


Those people exist in every discipline. I know people that will pull their bow out the day they plan on leaving for deer camp, shoot one arrow into a plate and 10 yards and call it good. You can't fix stupid

And Welcome to MGO.

[greg4]

I'm no expert on bowhunting. Far from it but it all boils down to knowing your equipment and its limitations plus your own. This happens everytime something new comes along. Now its the crossbows. Before it was compounds, then overdraws, scope systems, faster,etc. I started bowhunting in the late 60's with the recurve and then switched to a compound in the early 80's. In fact I still use the Darton 50M I bought in 81. Seems like every year they come out with something new. Is it better. Who knows. It doesnt really matter. The crossbow has been hyped up to where hunters think they are capable of doing anything.

I've talked to 3 friends already this year who went to the crossbows and were pretty disappointed with them. Missed deer, wounded deer. The one common complaint from them all is that the crossbows are noisy. Maybe so, I've never shot one.

I'm a firm believer in knowing your limitations. I don't care what you use for equipment. Too many hunters shoot farther than they should, take risky shots or just plain can't hit what they are shooting at. There is NOTHING worse than wounding game and not being able to find it. Personally I don't shoot very far. The closer the better. Love those straight down shots. 15 yds is my limit. I know at that distance I can put an arrow where I want it to go. I have passed up more bucks than some hunters will probably ever see simply because I wasn't comfortable with the shot. I've also killed more bucks then alot will see. Alot of hunters will shoot farther than that and thats great if they can hit the mark everytime. I raised my 3 boys the same way as far as waiting for the right shot and they take nice bucks every year.

I'm getting long winded and starting to ramble. Guess I could have said this in one statement.

Know YOUR equipment and YOUR ability. Greg

[Skinner 2]

Apparently, what concerns some people is the mentality exhibited by some hunters with their new fangled arrow shooter that think they can do more than they really can. Those misconceptions may be more of a problem than crossbow itself..

Like these guys?
"Out of the quiet purple shadow of the forest one evening there stepped the most stately buck I ever saw. His noble crest and carriage were superb. On a grassy hillside, some hundred and fifty yards away, he stood broadside on. With a rifle the merest tyro might have bowled him over. In fact, he looked just like the royal stag in the picture.

Two of us were together--a little underbrush shielded us. We drew our bows, loosed the arrows and off they flew. The flight of an arrow is a beautiful thing; it is grace, harmony, and perfect geometry all in one. They flew, and fell short. The deer only looked at them. We nocked again and shot. This time we dropped them just beneath his belly. He jumped forward a few paces and stopped to look at us. Slowly we reached for a third arrow, slowly nocked and drew it, and away it went, whispering in the air. One grazed his withers, the other pierced him hrough the loose skin of the brisket and flew past."

The two hunters described in that paragraph were Saxton Pope and Art Young, the namesakes of the Pope & Young Society and they were using wooden long bows with Cedar arrows. This excerpt is from "Hunting with the bow and arrow" by Saxton Pope.

It's not the equipment but "Some" people and they come in all groups!

Skinner

[Ferd]

For anyone who thinks crossbows are automatic deer killers, have you forgotten the 100's of things that can go wrong before you ever get to place the shot? If your hunting skills aren't up to par, the chances of getting a deer within 50yds are slim at best. What ever you choose to launch the arrow with, at that point, is up to the individual. I've hunted with recurves and moved to a compound because of the benefits it offered. I'll probably buy a crossbow to experiment with too. Its just another tool to use.

[Ferd]

obviously .... he gets his info from the "internets".... that, and his pals that, between them, know everything....

oh, and BTW... I have heard crossbows lead to global warming....:coocoo:

Ohio has allowed crossbows since 1976, and continues to see a record number of deer harvested year after year. They've even extended the archery deer season to keep the herd in check. On average, the harvest has increased 7-10% per year.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/pdf/pub304.pdf

yep, the "internets" is a great source for fact and some fiction.

[RSF]

We could only wish to have the quality and the heard they do......

[pkuptruck]

We could only wish to have the quality and the heard they do......


or..

We could only wish to have the quality of the DNR they do....

[Combat Commander]

how does worry abouyt nyour own yard how you hunt and not others i supoise ar-15/ak have no purpose either you sound like those *******s at MBHA


I hunt with recurve. compound and crossbow so what and have done so indifferent states and countries.... Ohio seams to have no issue with it or many others and have much better deer herds and bucks oh yah there DRNE is smart and well run unlike ours dont blame the gear blame those running the show

also i have seen more guys and gals this year in the woods getting back into hunting due to allowance of crossbows and many new hunters its good to see and it has zero effect on my hunts go spout your ******** on M-sportman along with the other greedy *******s that thinnk they own the woods

Well said, and just for that I'm going to shoot 5 doe's this weekend.
It's ok I'm going to use a compound bow, I don't want to piss anyone off.

[sullyxlh]

or..

We could only wish to have the quality of the DNR they do....The MI DNR doesn't give a flying ** about anything but the almightly dollar and sucking political dk.
We're the laughing stock for other states in regards to game laws and management.

[GregK]

Isn't that about the same thing that was said when we became those "awful" compound bow users, instead of staying traditional or recurve shooters? Are you old enough to remember that? It's the same battle over traditional or modern type muzzleloaders. Crossbows are no more deadly or accurate than any other weapon. It still requires patience & practice. I've shot compounds for years, have been a competitive staff shooter as well & I can tell you that I can shoot either bow equally well, but the guy who doesn't practice can wound & lose deer after deer with whatever weapon he chooses...from bow to gun.

To my knowledge there is no special "crossbow only" season. I don't agree with the way the DNR handles deer season either, but in this case all we can do is educate other people & police ourselves to do the right thing.

[pkuptruck]

Isn't that about the same thing that was said when we became those "awful" compound bow users, instead of staying traditional or recurve shooters? Are you old enough to remember that? It's the same battle over traditional or modern type muzzleloaders. Crossbows are no more deadly or accurate than any other weapon. It still requires patience & practice. I've shot compounds for years, have been a competitive staff shooter as well & I can tell you that I can shoot either bow equally well, but the guy who doesn't practice can wound & lose deer after deer with whatever weapon he chooses...from bow to gun.

To my knowledge there is no special "crossbow only" season. I don't agree with the way the DNR handles deer season either, but in this case all we can do is educate other people & police ourselves to do the right thing.



well said.
:scholar:

[rein1]

Its all about the dnre selling as many tags as possible,I hunt in the thumb the past 25 yrs and the past 3 or 4 yrs the deer heard has taken a big hit at least where i hunt. i never shot a deer last year not even a doe.I went from seeing 30 or 40 deer in a day down to 1 or 2 if your lucky.

[fr3db3ar]

Well said, and just for that I'm going to shoot 5 doe's this weekend.
It's ok I'm going to use a compound bow, I don't want to piss anyone off.

I'm going to do it with a long bow.....cause the long bow has proven itself a more effect weapon in history than the crossbow. :P

[GregK]

well said.
:scholar:
Thanks pkup!

[GregK]

As I sat in my blind this morning I started noting my likes & dislikes of crossbows. Here's what I came up with.
Dislikes; Heavy,
Unbalanced,
Awkward,
Cumbersome,
Next to impossible to get a second shot
Not user friendly like any long or compound bow,
Cost of everything you need.

Likes;
Crank reduction cocking device,
Allows someone like me that had to give up archery in 2003 due to failing joints that won't allow me to draw & hold a bow anymore to be back in the woods hunting deer & enjoying nature.

The dislikes outweigh the likes........at first appearance, but let me tell you something. The single fact that I can be out there again enjoying what God has created for all of us outweighs any dislike!

[mideerslayer]

Crossbow's are not going to ruin the deer herd,the dnre is going to ruin it.

I here people say this and that about crossbow's,but the same people are using .300 ultramags for a 50 yard shot.

When it comes down to the weapon it should be up to the hunter,and we as hunters have to stand together and do what is right.

Taking 5 does a day if you choose,is just the insurance companies trying to cut down car/deer claims

I think One doe and one buck should be enough but that is just my opinion

[jeffy351]

Have you ever shot a crossbow? And honestly, how many people are going to harvest 5 deer a day?

Crossbows are bulky, heavy and are not that much more accurate then a decent compound bow shooter. They also do not have any more range then a normal bow, in some cases less due to the bolts weighing less than a full length arrow.

I've been an archer my whole life (shooting target, 3D, etc) and was very reluctant about them at fist, until I shot one. Once I realized that I can't shoot it much better than I can my other bows, my opinion of them changed. (actually the one I shot, a Parker Enforcer, wouldn't shoot as accurately or as consistently for me as my compound bow.)
I agree.

[Quack Addict]

I agree.

It's all about people wanting the rules to benefit the way they hunt... "I don't hunt that way so nobody else should."

"Damn bow hunters keep spooking MY deer"
"EAS and LAS should be banned because it educates MY deer"
"Damn youth season, kid shot MY buck!"
"Baiting should be illegal (but leave MY 20ac foodplot alone)"

Me, me, me... Blah, blah, blah

[TomE]

Did anyone else recieve the 2010 Michigan Deer Harvest Survey ? If you did ,fill it out and help our DNRE do their job . At least give them correct info to start with.

[pkuptruck]

Did anyone else recieve the 2010 Michigan Deer Harvest Survey ? If you did ,fill it out and help our DNRE do their job . At least give them correct info to start with.


one has nothing to do with the other! :hick:

( but I agree... at least give them accurate info to mess up and ignore...) :computer:

[miked]

I forgot about this thread until it popped up today.

FYI, the guy that owned the crossbow I shot last fall missed 3 deer with it during the season, at least two were at 15 yards. He didn't tell me how far the third was.

At least in the hands of my friend, it's not the end all be all deer slayer.

[RSF]

Hummm my excalibers are very accurate accurate enough to take a deer at 53 yards clean pass through..........

but then again practice does help

my mathews is very accurate bow as well the get equal time

[TomE]

at 53 yards deer are able to jump the string noise generated by a compound

[RSF]

Really they are.... funny i shot a doe in Iowa that didnt at 50 yards with my bow tech

good quiet bow fast bow relaxed deer and wind in the right direction easy day

the buck i shot this year at 53 yards never knew what hit it till it fell over

[Quack Addict]

Really they are.... funny i shot a doe in Iowa that didnt at 50 yards with my bow tech

good quiet bow fast bow relaxed deer and wind in the right direction easy day

the buck i shot this year at 53 yards never knew what hit it till it fell over


I have had deer "jump" (actually duck) the string inside of 25 yards, and my compound launches the arrows I shoot at 317fps; my bow is pretty quiet for the most part. Deer "jumping" the string depends on the individual situation.

A while back I saw a youtube video of some asshat sighting in his x-bow at 100 yards; I know a guy that took a buck this past season with a 12ga slug at 202 yards too. 50+ yard shots are possible with an x-bow - even with a compound - but they're not for everyone AND it's pointless to debate the fact that xbow/bow shots at that range come with MUCH INCREASED risk of not getting the desired outcome - - - a clean, ethical kill.

Bottom line is an x-bow is not some magical deer hammer. Maximum range is about the same as a good compound. FWIW, I carried a TenPoint x-bow afield one time this past October and it was like carrying a boat anchor through the woods.

[RSF]

I have had deer "jump" (actually duck) the string inside of 25 yards, and my compound launches the arrows I shoot at 317fps; my bow is pretty quiet for the most part. Deer "jumping" the string depends on the individual situation.

A while back I saw a youtube video of some asshat sighting in his x-bow at 100 yards; I know a guy that took a buck this past season with a 12ga slug at 202 yards too. 50+ yard shots are possible with an x-bow - even with a compound - but they're not for everyone AND it's pointless to debate the fact that xbow/bow shots at that range come with MUCH INCREASED risk of not getting the desired outcome - - - a clean, ethical kill.

Bottom line is an x-bow is not some magical deer hammer. Maximum range is about the same as a good compound. FWIW, I carried a TenPoint x-bow afield one time this past October and it was like carrying a boat anchor through the woods.


pretty much

but really only 202 yards with a 12 gauge.....
again operator and gear and practice

anything can result in a bad hit and lost animals... i have seen guys wound deer at 10 yards nothing is 100% unless care practice and time and effort are applied and common sense

[miked]

Hummm my excalibers are very accurate accurate enough to take a deer at 53 yards clean pass through..........

but then again practice does help

my mathews is very accurate bow as well the get equal time


I've seen you shoot, I can pretty confidently say that your skill level far exceeds that of my friends.

[TomE]

Really they are.... funny i shot a doe in Iowa that didnt at 50 yards with my bow tech

good quiet bow fast bow relaxed deer and wind in the right direction easy day

the buck i shot this year at 53 yards never knew what hit it till it fell over
I didn't say they wouldn't , just that they are able to, so the greenhorns don't try stupid shots. I do also know about XCals

[bone]

switched to a crossbow this year myself after hunting with a compound for years. the new law and a shoulder injury pushed me into the decision

i can say for a fact that even being "cocked and locked" from a tree stand or my ground blind i had half the shooting capability i had with my compound. its wide, awkward, and heavy. i had to remove alot more cover from my treestands to be able to swing it around to shooting lanes. unless you have it sitting on sticks infront of you and the deer walks into that select shooting window it takes alot more movement to bring a crossbow into ready than it would to draw my bow. i wouldnt take a shot over 35 yards. even though it can shoot 50. theres a high probability that the deer will flinch or duck and the bolt wont go where i want it because of how noisy it is. the chances are too great of a bad shot for me.

i hate my crossbow. but unless i wanna hunt at 35lb draw its the only way im gonna be able to bow hunt for a while.

[mattl]

Ban all weapons made after rocks and pointy sticks for hunting!
Sounds just as dumb. I now use a crossbow because 30+ years of painting has sort of chewed my joints to bits and consistancy is questionable.
I wouldn't consider taking a shot past 35 yards with my crossbow but aside from that I take offense to your statements...but how's this:


oct 1-oct 15 traditional archery, oct16-oct30th compound bows, oct 31- nov 14th xbows and then nov15th-nov30 gun season.

I won't tell you what to hunt with or when so don't try and tell me.

[TomE]

I can imagine if you are shooting at tame , captive deer they wopuldn't move or flinch because they think you are coming to feed or groom them .I did write for my school newspaper though

[RSF]

I can imagine if you are shooting at tame , captive deer they wopuldn't move or flinch because they think you are coming to feed or groom them .I did write for my school newspaper though


Don,t know never hunted tame captive deer but, you seam to have some experience at with them sounds like....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s4J0HskCLs Not tame there


also very common for many outfitters and guides out west for mule deer and speed goats to tell you practice shots to 40-50 yards even 60 if your confident and proficient in your gear

Preach to your own shoot what you like at what distances you like and are skilled at.... and leave the rest that are skilled enough to there's

Shooting sticks are great to have with a crossbow....

[fbuckner]

Steve you know as well as I do that some of those animals out west dont have the fear of a human as whitetail do here. It would be pretty darn rare for a Michigan whitetail to stand still long enough to take that shot with the hunting pressure we have here. But none the less if you own it practice with it and become one with it.

[TomE]

Steve you know as well as I do that some of those animals out west dont have the fear of a human as whitetail do here. It would be pretty darn rare for a Michigan whitetail to stand still long enough to take that shot with the hunting pressure we have here. But none the less if you own it practice with it and become one with it.
****WINNER****

[Daniels]

Why not be mad at anyone using a rifle or a scope instead of a muzzle loader? To be honest, I just tackle the deer and cut it's throat with a butter knife and some people hate that I use a knife.

[RSF]

Steve you know as well as I do that some of those animals out west dont have the fear of a human as whitetail do here. It would be pretty darn rare for a Michigan whitetail to stand still long enough to take that shot with the hunting pressure we have here. But none the less if you own it practice with it and become one with it.


key word is some

my last trip out this year that wasn't the case but yes in some more remote location they aren't as keen but then again i don't hunt heavy pressured areas

I have 3 good lands that I hunt that are very limited on pressure, except for one until the Ohio gun season starts

and i agree practice practice practice


TomE you have different thoughts and skill sets etc... than others to each is own, not all animals are the same or react the same but again out west or not

body alarm response and survival instincts are the same from Africa to MI
if you fool 2 of there sensory items you have won( sight smell hearing)

[TomE]

Like Kris said B4 :bow:

[Ferd]

In order to form a more informed and well-rounded opinion, I just purchased a crossbow.

<sarcasm> The deer population in Michigan is surely headed for decimation now!!! </sarcasm>

[oldskoolford427]

Have you ever shot a crossbow? And honestly, how many people are going to harvest 5 deer a day?

Crossbows are bulky, heavy and are not that much more accurate then a decent compound bow shooter. They also do not have any more range then a normal bow, in some cases less due to the bolts weighing less than a full length arrow.

I've been an archer my whole life (shooting target, 3D, etc) and was very reluctant about them at fist, until I shot one. Once I realized that I can't shoot it much better than I can my other bows, my opinion of them changed. (actually the one I shot, a Parker Enforcer, wouldn't shoot as accurately or as consistently for me as my compound bow.)

+1

[wardog6t]

First and foremost you have to see Deer to shoot them. Second until the DNR numbers come in for this year I really would'nt comment on its effect. 3rd it did boost hunting economy here in Michigan. 4th Wounded deer create great substanance for the coyote population which we all love to hunt. 5th More drunks in the woods with crossbows means more bumped deer. 6th most that have bought crossbows will give up hunting for deer with them because there still not seeing deer. 7th Crossbows have been legal in other states for years with no real effect to the heard. 8th Hunter Orange will, in the future be mandated for crossbow hunters. 9th there over rated! They dont hit as hard as most compound bows although the speed is there the weight isn't. Finally killing more does is a good thing in my opinion and experiance. In which it creates a higher bbuck to doe ratio. I have seen this first hand in the TB zone. Altough there me less deer your chances of seeing a quality buck get higher and higher the less does there are.

[mattl]

Glad to see this has remained a logical, level headed, informative debate...
:lolup:

[JHill]

If people want to use crossbows more power to them. I personally don't but if thats your thing great. What needs to be undertood is the fact is the range of a crossbow is actually considerably less than that of a compound bow, not saying they can't shoot as far, but the kinetic energy of said bolt diminishes drasticaly faster due to shorter draw cycles, and lighter bolts, thus less penetration at greater distances. So to say they are the killing machines of killing machines is ludicris. I can shoot just as many deer with my mathews as someone with a crossbow, you still have to have them in range to have the opportunity.

This early doe season is far more damaging than someone using a crossbow, I'm all for the kids getting out before bow season because they are going to see deer and that will keep their interest. The early season before the youth hunt turns deer nocturnal before the kids have a chance and I thought the whole point of the youth hunt was to get them interested, not seeing deer sure wont do that.

[chevyman]

+5 For JHILL !!!!!!!!!!!! You are right on about the early doe season !!!!!!! :yeahthat:

[CnA]

First and foremost you have to see Deer to shoot them. Second until the DNR numbers come in for this year I really would'nt comment on its effect. 3rd it did boost hunting economy here in Michigan. 4th Wounded deer create great substanance for the coyote population which we all love to hunt. 5th More drunks in the woods with crossbows means more bumped deer. 6th most that have bought crossbows will give up hunting for deer with them because there still not seeing deer. 7th Crossbows have been legal in other states for years with no real effect to the heard. 8th Hunter Orange will, in the future be mandated for crossbow hunters. 9th there over rated! They dont hit as hard as most compound bows although the speed is there the weight isn't. Finally killing more does is a good thing in my opinion and experiance. In which it creates a higher bbuck to doe ratio. I have seen this first hand in the TB zone. Altough there me less deer your chances of seeing a quality buck get higher and higher the less does there are.
You have no clue to what you are talking about.

A typical 20" crossbow bolt is only about 25 grains lighter than a regular compound bow arrow. But it will fly 50-70 fps faster than an average compound. It's going to hit harder and it's a lot more accurate than the average bow hunter who does not practice on a regular basis. As far as hitting harder, broadheads kill by causing blood loss and trauma, not by shock energy like a bullet.

Paragraphs are your friend.

[mideerslayer]

You have no clue to what you are talking about.

A typical 20" crossbow bolt is only about 25 grains lighter than a regular compound bow arrow. But it will fly 50-70 fps faster than an average compound. It's going to hit harder and it's a lot more accurate than the average bow hunter who does not practice on a regular basis. As far as hitting harder, broadheads kill by causing blood loss and trauma, not by shock energy like a bullet.

Paragraphs are your friend.

The average "new" bow's are just as fast if not faster then new crossbows.

As for being more accurate, I disagree unless you are using shooting sticks.

I have shot Re-curves,Hi-end compounds and crossbows.

I will stick to a compound because I am more comfortable and accurate ,but to tell someone that a crossbow is faster and more accurate is misleading.

It takes practice with what ever you use and I can bet money that you can not pick up a cross bow off the shelf and walk into the woods and be ready to take a humane shot.

It is like any weapon, practice practice and practice.

[mattl]

All I know is I've aimed and shot my quad400 at 2 deer so far with incredible pass through hits. Neither deer went past 80 feet.

[costanza]

:hot: :hot: I am reluctant to share this for I absolutely dont want to advertise. You people that are capable, better be shooting a compound during archery season. We the bow hunters need to get this removed!!!!!! DNRE what are you trying??
Its not even about game management anymore its all about the cash!!!!
BULLS!!! Early doe seasons , youth season before open archery and legalized crossbow and 5 doe tags a day!!!. There is not going to be any deer left!!! So go ahead people 5 does a day with a crossbow hell you can shoot the baby spike horn too. WTF DNRE REALLY
:gavel:
Do not tell me what I'd better be using to hunt-crossbow or otherwise. If it is legal, you have no right to tell anyone what to do. I used a crossbow during the rifle season and guess what? I did not take a deer. And, while you are at it, do some research into the range, velocity, and accuracy of a crossbow compared to a compound bow at distances over 30 yards. Search YouTube or google and you will be suprised.