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gjgalligan
12-28-2004, 08:26 PM
I was surprised to see Shotguns and .22s for sale at the Lapeer store today.
Any of the other stores I have been in lately did not have any guns.

Jim Simmons
12-28-2004, 09:24 PM
I'm not sure if the Meijers in Shelby Township has pistols, but they do sell long guns -- shotguns for certain, and hunting rifles, I'm pretty sure.

I have ocassionally bought ammo there, usually when I've let myself run short. They are more expensive than Kurt.

mkls0
12-28-2004, 09:31 PM
[quote="Jim Simmons"]I'm not sure if the Meijers in Shelby Township has pistols, but they do sell long guns -- shotguns for certain, and hunting rifles, I'm pretty sure.[quote]

Same in Westland Meijers

Fiddler
12-28-2004, 10:11 PM
The Meijers in Howell and Brighton have rifles, shotguns and ammo, but this is Livingston County. :D

Slatherd
12-29-2004, 01:30 AM
No guns bigger than pellet guns at Waterford. All the ammo you need though.

Too close to Pontiac I guess. :?

Scoop
12-29-2004, 07:36 AM
The Meijers in Howell and Brighton have rifles, shotguns and ammo, but this is Livingston County. :D
That's one of the reasons why I live there ... gotta love it! :)

Divegeek
12-29-2004, 09:14 AM
The Meijer store on Ann Arbor-Saline Rd. in Ann Arbor doesn't carry rifles or shotguns anymore and there selection of ammo is pathetic. I think it all has to do with how many the store has sold over the years as to whether or not they keep selling them. Ann Arbor is Gun Fearing Wussy central so I am sure that they didn't sell too many.

Augie
12-29-2004, 09:23 AM
The Meijer at 23 Mile and Gratiot does not carry anything but Paint Ball and Pelet guns, They carry ammo. They also carry kids Bow and arrow sets.

garyjt
12-29-2004, 09:53 AM
It must be a store manager decision? Which is good because Kmart went into bankrupcy when it centralized decision making into its home office and took authority away from its store managers so the store manager no longer had authority to decide what to carry or when to restock his shelves.

Ken Cooper
12-29-2004, 10:59 AM
[...] Kmart went into bankrupcy [...]

...and now has Sears under their umbrella.

MrSmithMSU
12-29-2004, 12:22 PM
I have seen real long guns in Lansing at the W. Saginaw and Lake Lansing Rd. stores. Not much selection (maybe 8 different models combined) but for a basic Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 Express, or a 30/30 levergun, it's another place to check.

I'm glad to see Meijer back in the firearms business, even at this low a level.

jeff s
12-29-2004, 06:03 PM
If I remember correctly, a few years ago Meijers got rid of all their firearms - I remember their closeout sale on shotguns. All they had where blackpowder and pellet guns. But last year I noticed my local store in Grand Haven started to again carry shotguns. Maybe with Wal-Mart planning on building across the road from them, they wised up.

Slatherd
12-29-2004, 08:14 PM
Its the same reason everyone else is bringing back guns. It's money. Same when stores ban CCW. They realize money is being missed out, so they drop it.

bensonj
12-30-2004, 08:21 PM
In many areas, Meijers now has to compete with Walmart, hence the latest firearms additions. In Okemos, not only has the Meijers store had to face Walmart competition, but also had the opportunity to compete with Dick's who took over the Gaylan's location in the mall across the street. With Dick's not carrying handguns(as Gaylan's did), Meijers offering some long guns is a smart move considering its competition.

While Gaylans was hi priced for many things, it's hand guns were quite a deal compared to other local gun stores. IMO, Dick's Okemos location will be a looser.

garyjt
12-30-2004, 08:23 PM
[...] Kmart went into bankrupcy [...]

...and now has Sears under their umbrella.

... and Sears got rid of their guns too. I quit going to Sears and Montgomery Wards after they both got rid of their guns, and we all know what happened to Montgomery Wards after they got rid of their guns. The best thing about
Sears was all the Ted Williams items, Ted Williams guns, reels, etc. We dont have any baseball players who endorse sporting goods anymore,a and by "sporting goods", I mean hunting and fishing equipment - not chinese clothes.

Kouger
12-30-2004, 08:45 PM
its more than just not selling guns that made them go under

gjgalligan
12-31-2004, 11:48 AM
I was in the Oxford Meijers today, in the 2.5 years I have lived up this way it is the first time I have seen real guns in this store.
Shotguns, .22s, a 30/30, and a Rem 710 in 30.06.

gjgalligan
12-31-2004, 12:01 PM
[...] Kmart went into bankrupcy [...]

...and now has Sears under their umbrella.

Did Kmart take over Sears or did Sears take over Kmart???

Ken Cooper
12-31-2004, 12:18 PM
[...] Kmart went into bankrupcy [...]

...and now has Sears under their umbrella.

Did Kmart take over Sears or did Sears take over Kmart???

The former.

Kmart bought Sear Roebuck for $11B, and now the new name is "Sears Holdings."

Divermaster
01-05-2005, 05:25 AM
Both Meijers in Jackson sell rifles and shotguns.

polishnightmare
01-12-2005, 10:08 PM
how did Kmart buy Sears when Kmart is in bankruptcy?

Roger Roney
01-13-2005, 02:14 AM
how did Kmart buy Sears when Kmart is in bankruptcy?Kmart left bankruptcy almost a year ago, and, among many other questionable actions, emerged as a "new" corporation, with new shares, that made any old shares, including any originals and successors from its days as S.S.Kresge, absolutely worthless.

Roger

polishnightmare
01-13-2005, 02:18 PM
I wonder how long it will be before Sears goes down the tube as well.

garyjt
01-13-2005, 09:50 PM
how did Kmart buy Sears when Kmart is in bankruptcy?Kmart left bankruptcy almost a year ago, and, among many other questionable actions, emerged as a "new" corporation, with new shares, that made any old shares, including any originals and successors from its days as S.S.Kresge, absolutely worthless.

Roger

They did not have to do that. They could have emerged from bankruptcy with the same old shares, without leaving the origianal stockholders penniless. They chose to make the old stock worthless, and create new shares, so the executives who decided that could personally make 200 million dollars on the new shares instead of 100 million dollars by keeping the old shares. Global Crossing did the same thing. Issuing new shares, instead or reemerging with the old shares is very rare, most companies that go bankrupt, come back with the same old shares. Neither Kmart nor sears has anything to attract consumers, or has any reason to attract any customer or employee loyalty. The kmart headquarters in michigan will not last long, nealry all the Kmart jobs in michigan/troy will be gone within a couple of years. Too bad, because if Mr Kresge was still alive and if he had bought sears, he would have combined the 2 companies and move all central operations to Troy. Of course, Mr Kresge was a nice man, who never laid off anyone, and who sold handguns and such.

Roger Roney
01-14-2005, 02:24 AM
I was aware of that. I was only giving a short answer to p-n's question, since this thread started as "Meijer's."

Since we're already drifting off topic, how about this trivia? S.S.Kresge's first delivery truck, that he personally drove, is sitting in a warehouse at 9 Mile and I-94.

Roger

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-14-2005, 03:39 AM
The old stock was virtually worthless before the bankrupcy, so the contention that issuing new shares made old investors "penniless", is a stretch and sounds like the same old drum beating of "evil corporate greed".

Nearly three years ago, Kmart was considered a lost cause.

In the days leading up to the Troy-based retailer's Jan. 22, 2002, bankruptcy filing, nervous investors unloaded shares, sending the price down 48 percent in a day. On Jan. 16, 2002, shares were trading at $1.26.

In the 15 months Kmart spent in Chapter 11, it lost billions in sales, most top executives were fired and some ended up in court. Kmart's sales never recovered. For its most recent quarter, Kmart reported a 12.8-percent decline in sales at stores open at least a year.

The old Kmart shares were wiped out when the company emerged from bankruptcy in May 2003. New Kmart Holding shares were issued and trading began on the Nasdaq on June 10, 2003. It closed that day at $19.60 a share. The stock has risen 409 percent since then.

I still wouldn't shop there or at Sears.

But why not state all the facts? 8)

garyjt
01-14-2005, 08:56 AM
The old stock was virtually worthless before the bankrupcy, so the contention that issuing new shares made old investors "penniless", is a stretch and sounds like the same old drum beating of "evil corporate greed".

In the 15 months Kmart spent in Chapter 11, it lost billions in sales, most top executives were fired and some ended up in court.

The old Kmart shares were wiped out when the company emerged from bankruptcy in May 2003. New Kmart Holding shares were issued and trading began on the Nasdaq on June 10, 2003. It closed that day at $19.60 a share. The stock has risen 409 percent since then.

But why not state all the facts? 8)

YOu dont understand.

Kmart did not have to issue new stock, it could have came out of bankruptcy with the old shares, so the original stockholders would have gotten their money back when Kmart shares rose after it came out of bankrupcy.

It also is not true that most of its executives were fired. It is hard to tell now many were asked to leave, but it really doesnt matter since all of them were given huge sums of money and severance packages when they left. Most of the executives were not there very long, they just came for a while, took the money and left.

Kmarts corruption in giving away money to executives was so bad it was Kmart who had the problems with the court- because the court could not understand why kmart would give away so much money to executives who did so badly and who werent there anymore. None of the executives were convicted of anything, and although the bankruptcy court temporarily withheld some severance pensions, in the end, I dont know of any who actually lost their severance payments or who had to pay back the millions in the money/"loans" which kmart gave away. Joe Antoninni, who destroyed kmart -taking it from being a very profitable company which outsold walmart 7-1 into bankruptcy, got a $100 million as a bonus when he left, plus an additional pension of several millions a year.

It sounds like you are not at all familiar with the corruption of kmart in giving away so much money to its exeuctives while at the same time making its stockholders lose all their money and while kmart was firing laying off so many of its regular working men and women.

If anyone else has any information if any of those executives who were given all those millions, who had to pay back anything of the money given away, then provide a list of who paid back how much - I dont know of any who actually had to pay back any of the kmart payolla.

Frankly, I would have been willing to drive kmart into bankruptcy for just half of what Antonnini was paid to do it for.




----------------------------------
" The details about Kmart's executive awards emerged in documents filed as part of Kmart's reorganization under U.S. bankruptcy law.

Throughout the bankruptcy proceedings, Kmart's creditors and the U.S. Trustee supervising the case have questioned how cash-strapped Kmart could afford the expensive executive packages it handed out, including salaries and bonuses.

In addition to the loans to 24 executives authorized late last year and early this year, the board in May 2001 endorsed a similar $5-million loan to former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Charles C. Conaway. That loan was forgiven, according to company documents. Conaway also received $4.5 million in severance payments. The company declined to give details of severance packages for other executives.

Such loans can be handled in various ways. In Kmart's case, the loans apparently were made up front, with the executive then expected to earn the right to have them forgiven over a period of time, said Gary Giumetti, president of McTevia & Associates in Eastpointe, a corporate turnaround specialist. In addition, such loans can be forgiven if the executive is fired without cause or leaves for reasons spelled out in his employment contract.
The number of retention loans and the amounts made by Kmart appear to be higher than those made by other companies

In addition to Conaway, retention loans went to Kmart's six most senior executives. Five of them have since departed. They are: Mark S. Schwartz, former president, $3 million; Anthony B. D'Onofrio, former executive vice-president, David Rots, former chief administrative officer, and John T. McDonald, former chief financial officer, $2.5 million each; and Hector Dominguez, former executive vice-president, $750,000.
Other loans went principally to senior vice-presidents and division presidents. Two of them have left: Lorna Nagler and John Owen, both senior vice-presidents, $750,000 each. But two vice-presidents who have since departed also got loans: Timothy Crow, $640,000; and Leo Anguiano, $500,000.

The severance package and forgiven loans for Conaway -- totaling $9.5 million -- have been widely criticized as overly generous. "To shareholders and employees and wage earners, it's an absolutely staggering number," Giumetti said.

Court records show Kmart made more than $30 million in loans to 63 executives last year. One of the executives is repaying his loan now, a company lawyer said.
Kmart spokesman Michael Freitag said in one case Kmart wants to recover a loan made to a top executive who resigned. The merchandising executive is Lorna Nagler, who received a $750,000 "retention loan," left in April to join Catherines Stores Corp., a plus-size women's apparel company.
Separation packages from Kmart that include what were intended to be "retention loans" have ranged from $200,000 up to $750,000, records show.

Adamson, who attended the hearing clad in a gray pin-striped suit, did not comment during the court's proceedings. Under his new agreement, he is eligible to receive a maximum severance package of three years' base pay and one year of bonus compensation. Previously, Kmart executives received a guaranteed severance package of three years' salary and bonuses.
Sonderby also approved employment agreements for Kmart's top five executives along with a Key Employee Retention Plan, which sets up a bonus schedule for the company's top 10,000 employees.

Sonderby allowed all of Kmart's proposed agreements with top managers. They include President Julian C. Day, who will receive a salary and sign-on bonus of $775,000. Chief Restructuring Officer Ronald Hutchison will receive $475,000 in base pay and a $250,000 signing bonus.
The court also allowed Kmart to proceed with the employment agreements of Al Koch and Ted Stenger, Kmart's chief financial officer and treasurer, respectively. The two executives are "on loan" to Kmart from their jobs at Southfield-based turnaround firm Jay Alix & Associates. They are both paid hourly wages for their work at Kmart. Koch bills $640 per hour and Stenger charges $620.

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-14-2005, 10:18 AM
The old stock was virtually worthless before the bankrupcy, so the contention that issuing new shares made old investors "penniless", is a stretch and sounds like the same old drum beating of "evil corporate greed".

In the 15 months Kmart spent in Chapter 11, it lost billions in sales, most top executives were fired and some ended up in court.

The old Kmart shares were wiped out when the company emerged from bankruptcy in May 2003. New Kmart Holding shares were issued and trading began on the Nasdaq on June 10, 2003. It closed that day at $19.60 a share. The stock has risen 409 percent since then.

But why not state all the facts? 8)

YOu dont understand.
No. YOU don't understand.

Kmart did not have to issue new stock, it could have came out of bankruptcy with the old shares, so the original stockholders would have gotten their money back when Kmart shares rose after it came out of bankrupcy.
When they came out of bankrupcy should the BoD have been expected to issue shares at $1.00 a share? If the investors that held onto their shares as they went belly up wanted to gamble on them again, they could have bought the new shares.

It also is not true that most of its executives were fired. It is hard to tell now many were asked to leave, but it really doesnt matter since all of them were given huge sums of money and severance packages when they left. Most of the executives were not there very long, they just came for a while, took the money and left.
Your "facts" are wrong. Most of the old executives WERE fired. Do some homework instead of speculating.

Kmarts corruption in giving away money to executives was so bad it was Kmart who had the problems with the court- because the court could not understand why kmart would give away so much money to executives who did so badly and who werent there anymore. None of the executives were convicted of anything, and although the bankruptcy court temporarily withheld some severance pensions, in the end, I dont know of any who actually lost their severance payments or who had to pay back the millions in the money/"loans" which kmart gave away. Joe Antoninni, who destroyed kmart -taking it from being a very profitable company which outsold walmart 7-1 into bankruptcy, got a $100 million as a bonus when he left, plus an additional pension of several millions a year.

It sounds like you are not at all familiar with the corruption of kmart in giving away so much money to its exeuctives while at the same time making its stockholders lose all their money and while kmart was firing laying off so many of its regular working men and women.

If I was not familiar with the situation at KMart I may have been one of those shareholders who lost their shirts hanging onto this dog.

If anyone else has any information if any of those executives who were given all those millions, who had to pay back anything of the money given away, then provide a list of who paid back how much - I dont know of any who actually had to pay back any of the kmart payolla.

Frankly, I would have been willing to drive kmart into bankruptcy for just half of what Antonnini was paid to do it for.




----------------------------------
" The details about Kmart's executive awards emerged in documents filed as part of Kmart's reorganization under U.S. bankruptcy law.

Throughout the bankruptcy proceedings, Kmart's creditors and the U.S. Trustee supervising the case have questioned how cash-strapped Kmart could afford the expensive executive packages it handed out, including salaries and bonuses.

In addition to the loans to 24 executives authorized late last year and early this year, the board in May 2001 endorsed a similar $5-million loan to former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Charles C. Conaway. That loan was forgiven, according to company documents. Conaway also received $4.5 million in severance payments. The company declined to give details of severance packages for other executives.

Such loans can be handled in various ways. In Kmart's case, the loans apparently were made up front, with the executive then expected to earn the right to have them forgiven over a period of time, said Gary Giumetti, president of McTevia & Associates in Eastpointe, a corporate turnaround specialist. In addition, such loans can be forgiven if the executive is fired without cause or leaves for reasons spelled out in his employment contract.
The number of retention loans and the amounts made by Kmart appear to be higher than those made by other companies

In addition to Conaway, retention loans went to Kmart's six most senior executives. Five of them have since departed. They are: Mark S. Schwartz, former president, $3 million; Anthony B. D'Onofrio, former executive vice-president, David Rots, former chief administrative officer, and John T. McDonald, former chief financial officer, $2.5 million each; and Hector Dominguez, former executive vice-president, $750,000.
Other loans went principally to senior vice-presidents and division presidents. Two of them have left: Lorna Nagler and John Owen, both senior vice-presidents, $750,000 each. But two vice-presidents who have since departed also got loans: Timothy Crow, $640,000; and Leo Anguiano, $500,000.

The severance package and forgiven loans for Conaway -- totaling $9.5 million -- have been widely criticized as overly generous. "To shareholders and employees and wage earners, it's an absolutely staggering number," Giumetti said.

Court records show Kmart made more than $30 million in loans to 63 executives last year. One of the executives is repaying his loan now, a company lawyer said.
Kmart spokesman Michael Freitag said in one case Kmart wants to recover a loan made to a top executive who resigned. The merchandising executive is Lorna Nagler, who received a $750,000 "retention loan," left in April to join Catherines Stores Corp., a plus-size women's apparel company.
Separation packages from Kmart that include what were intended to be "retention loans" have ranged from $200,000 up to $750,000, records show.

Adamson, who attended the hearing clad in a gray pin-striped suit, did not comment during the court's proceedings. Under his new agreement, he is eligible to receive a maximum severance package of three years' base pay and one year of bonus compensation. Previously, Kmart executives received a guaranteed severance package of three years' salary and bonuses.
Sonderby also approved employment agreements for Kmart's top five executives along with a Key Employee Retention Plan, which sets up a bonus schedule for the company's top 10,000 employees.

Sonderby allowed all of Kmart's proposed agreements with top managers. They include President Julian C. Day, who will receive a salary and sign-on bonus of $775,000. Chief Restructuring Officer Ronald Hutchison will receive $475,000 in base pay and a $250,000 signing bonus.
The court also allowed Kmart to proceed with the employment agreements of Al Koch and Ted Stenger, Kmart's chief financial officer and treasurer, respectively. The two executives are "on loan" to Kmart from their jobs at Southfield-based turnaround firm Jay Alix & Associates. They are both paid hourly wages for their work at Kmart. Koch bills $640 per hour and Stenger charges $620.

Just out of curiosity-Do you believe most U.S. corporations operate this way?

garyjt
01-14-2005, 08:33 PM
Most of the old executives WERE fired.

YOu have a strange definition of "fired". Joe Antonini was given almost $100 million dollars to leave ($87? million plus pension) Kmart. Ditto with all the other executives - some of them knew when they came in it would only be for long enough to be given a load of money, loans that would not have to be given back, and huge severence payments. Lots of people would choose to be fired from their jobs if they were given 100 million dollars to leave. YOu being confused and not understanding the words "corruption" and "fired". As I posted above from the court records, noone said anything about "fired", the allegations were that Kmart was giving money away to executives. The court didnt care about firing any executive that was not effective, what it didnt like was giving away so many millions of dollars to executives and their cronnies.

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-15-2005, 02:52 AM
"Just out of curiosity-Do you believe most U.S. corporations operate this way?"

You have answered my question(s) with your reply.
Corruption such as this could never have occurred in Cuba, right? :wink:
(At least not in the corporate environment)

http://www.detnews.com/2002/specialreport/0208/11/a01-559244.htm

The Fabulous goodbye package:
When a CEO gets fired for poor performance, he often gets rewarded with a mammoth severance package. And this makes the shareholders fume. After Lews Alberthal was shoved out from EDS, it was declared that the quarter’s earning shall come down by 12% because of the exit payment. The former CEO Dean Buntrock got a $ 14 million goodbye package while waste management crashed.

In many a case, directors abide by the contracts negotiated months and years earlier. Severance packages were negotiated earlier for John Watter (who left At&T with $ 25 million) and Michael Ovitz (who left Disney with $ 100 million). Both of them were hired as presidents and lasted less than a year.

According to Attorney Joe Bachelder, America’s No 1 negotiator of CEO employment deals, most of the Fortune 500 CEOs work on the basis of contracts; and they realize that the ideal time to negotiate severance is when the board is in their favour and sacking them has the least possibility.

A going away party
At times the severance package is worth every penny. The shareholders want to do away with the CEO - whatever be the prize. When GM fired Bob Stempel, Bill Smithbury left Quaker Oats and Joe Antonini departed from Kmart, the stock jumped immediately even before a successor was named. This shows how desperate the investors were get rid of them.

Source: Why CEOs fail, Charan, Ram, and Colvin, Geoffrey, Fortune, June 21, 1999

Antonini left four years before K-Mart filed for bankrupcy.
The real crooks and looters came later.
So you see, facts DO matter as does the understanding of them.

Question#2: In your opinion, Mr. jt, is the problem with Corporate Criminals or Capitalism itself?

Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation's troubles and use as a justification of its own demand for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen.

-- Ayn Rand, "America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business," Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

garyjt
01-17-2005, 01:00 PM
Antonini left four years before K-Mart filed for bankrupcy.
The real crooks and looters came later.
So you see, facts DO matter as does the understanding of them.


What you need to understand is that Antoninni was the "first" crook. He was also the first incompetent executive, and the one who hired/brought in and promoted all the other incompetent executives/crooks that were to follow. Antoninni was the one who got rid of all the competent managers, buyers and store managers, including the grandson of SS Kresge. Antonnini was the one who took authority away from the store managers and instituted centralized decision making instead of letting store managers run the stores. Antonnini instituted the 20-40-60 rule to get rid of competent people in any position. Antonnini took power when Kmart was 10 times the size of walmart, and the biggest discount chain in the world. It only took Antonnini and his cronnies 8 years to destroy the great company and the wealth that SS Kresge accumulated/built up. All the top executives after Antoninni left were all his cronnies who just finished what antonnini started. It was Antonninis policies that drove the company into bankrupcy, and after he left, the people he put in charge to take over just finished what he started. Antonnini never moved anyone up who was moral or (more) competent than antonnini - so kmart never had a chance after him.

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-17-2005, 01:35 PM
I'll try again:
Question#2: In your opinion, Mr. jt, is the problem with Corporate Criminals or Capitalism itself?

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-21-2005, 02:04 AM
:sleep:

joen
01-21-2005, 06:46 AM
Well, getting back to Meijer's....

I have noticed that chain outlets tend to have more of a firearm inventory in the more rural areas where the local population has more of a tendency to be firearm friendly. Most hardware stores in the northern part of the state sell ammo as well as County Farm and Fleet in West Branch.

The Oxford Meijer's does have a few standard rifles and shotguns and a pretty good supply of standard shotgun, rifle and pistol ammo(pretty good price,too!)but I see these things going away as more and more urbanites are moving out our way. The Meijer's in Rochester has too many soccer moms to be bothered with much of a firearm sports inventory.

The GCA of 1968 and subsequent Brady Act, with all the paper work and other hassles involved, has made it unprofitable for these outfits(Meijer's, Kmart, etc.)to fool around with firearms especially since their core business is housewares, food and stuff like that.

WhoIsJohnGalt
01-23-2005, 02:03 AM
Well, I think I got my answer..........
:roll: