A Story

[TRoebs00]

I thought I’d share a story that illustrates the both a gaping hole in the anti-cc argument, and yet another reason why campuses as a PFZ make no sense.

A year after Virginia Tech, so the spring of 2008, I was finishing my last semester at Michigan State. I was in a class in Berkey Hall, an enormous four-story stone building built in the 20’s with classrooms, offices, and lecture halls. I was in a class of about 30 people on the second floor when someone decided it would be hilarious to light off a string of firecrackers in the hallway on the first floor.

Having spent enough time around both guns and pyrotechnics, usually I can tell the difference between the two. However, when you hear them echoing off stone walls and tile hallways from some distance, it’s hard to tell the difference. Add to that the recent thoughts of massacre in the back of your head, any you’ll convince yourself real quick that you just heard gunshots.

And that’s what everyone did; all of the sudden we were all on the floor scrambling for cover. My professor was literally running around like a chicken with her head cut off, having had no training for such a situation (and being an English professor in her late 70’s likely didn’t help).

So there I am: on the ground trying to cover the girl next to me, waiting for some kid to come by and execute me. I can tell you there is no greater feeling of helplessness. And where was my gun? Sitting at my house half a mile off campus, because the law says I can’t be trusted to carry it in the classroom.

Happy ending, it was a prank. There was no gunman, and no one got hurt. But it raises an interesting question; the antis always say that you wouldn’t be able to stop a gunman anyway, and they even rig studies to show it, but what about the second classroom. The gunman at Virginia Tech shot students in 5 separate rooms, and I’m pretty sure after room one they knew something was coming.

So here’s the question: even if it’s not possible to stop the killing of that first group (and that’s a big if) what about everyone else?

[Dansjeep2000]

You should send this story to some local papers, maybe get it run as an editorial.

[SpaceOddity]

It IS stupid. If you don't want to break the law, what are other options?

I've always figured you could carry a big ass canister of bear spray or OC spray. If they have no experience with it, they're going to have a hard time carrying on the massacre once you hosed them down (even if you died in the process).

[jeepinrrt]

It IS stupid. If you don't want to break the law, what are other options?

I've always figured you could carry a big ass canister of bear spray or OC spray. If they have no experience with it, they're going to have a hard time carrying on the massacre once you hosed them down (even if you died in the process).

Per may student handbooks, and the OFFICIAL position of campus PD at my university, any personal defense spray is NOT allowed. I asked them why, and the OFFICIAL response was "We find that people if they have to use it, may actually end up hitting themselves instead of an attacker" :shake:

great story BTW and I second the editorial suggestion.

[OX SMASH!!]

ive never got the whole pepper spray thing, no matter how strong or not strong you are, a quick strike with the palm of your hand to the nose of an attacker can make their eyes well up just as reliably as pepper spray, getting you enough time to get away, and they will also have two beautiful black eyes to show off for their next parole hearing

[Will-IB-Ready]

ive never got the whole pepper spray thing, no matter how strong or not strong you are, a quick strike with the palm of your hand to the nose of an attacker can make their eyes well up just as reliably as pepper spray, getting you enough time to get away, and they will also have two beautiful black eyes to show off for their next parole hearing
Sure, getting popped in the nose stings, but that is not advice that I would give to young ladies. If you can touch them, they can touch you. I can block a strike to my face, I can't block a chemical. A face full of pepper, if delivered effectively, is going to put them out of action long enough for you to get away.

I think it's ridiculous that our campus policy, like Brad's, does not permit OC spray to be carried. Fortunately the female students are largely unaware of this as I see them carrying it all the time. We are actually going to be holding some OC and self defense classes over the next couple of months, to help the students to better understand the proper use of OC, and how to handle themselves in an attack.

[Will-IB-Ready]

I thought I’d share a story that illustrates the both a gaping hole in the anti-cc argument, and yet another reason why campuses as a PFZ make no sense.


Excellent story. Thanks for sharing it. Maybe I could write up an editorial (I'm working on it anyway) and use this story as an illustration?

[bandit_ad22]

Good story I got to SVSU and have my class scheduled for Dec. 5th.

I'm sure I could get this answer elsewhere, but a few people who I have classes with have their license and leave it in their car while going to class.

I believe this is legal but not sure

[jeepinrrt]

Good story I got to SVSU and have my class scheduled for Dec. 5th.

I'm sure I could get this answer elsewhere, but a few people who I have classes with have their license and leave it in their car while going to class.

I believe this is legal but not sure

Yes per state law the parking lot of a university is not a PFZ. However, keep in mind that as a student, you must also follow the student handbook or student code and many if not all have subsections prohibiting firearms on campus property.

[Howard000003]

Good story I got to SVSU and have my class scheduled for Dec. 5th.

I'm sure I could get this answer elsewhere, but a few people who I have classes with have their license and leave it in their car while going to class.

I believe this is legal but not sure

I had a friend (in National Guard) routinely carry his M&P 9mm with him back and forth to the the range (Duncans) and clean it in SVSU's and Delta's parking lot in-between classes. He had the police show up many times, but they did not do anything outside of verbally harass him. I'm not sure if why the officer's did not invoke the handbook rules (yes they do have a policy about no guns/knives on campus at SVSU).

[durus5995]

I had a friend (in National Guard) routinely carry his M&P 9mm with him back and forth to the the range (Duncans) and clean it in SVSU's and Delta's parking lot in-between classes. He had the police show up many times, but they did not do anything outside of verbally harass him. I'm not sure if why the officer's did not invoke the handbook rules (yes they do have a policy about no guns/knives on campus at SVSU).

When I talked to a couple officers at one of the tail gates they said they enforce the Michigan law not the University handbook on the matter.

[langenc]

ive never got the whole pepper spray thing, no matter how strong or not strong you are, a quick strike with the palm of your hand to the nose of an attacker can make their eyes well up just as reliably as pepper spray, getting you enough time to get away, and they will also have two beautiful black eyes to show off for their next parole hearing

I dont get the pepper spray thing either. I have had tear gas a few times and it is --------. I cant even think of a good word to describe it-stifling perhaps. The nose thing would hurt, but tear gas just keeps on burning till you rub it, then it really kicks in..

Try it and perhaps you will better understand it-pepper.

[pamopar]

Not Having enough Tactical Experience myself I agree that you should at least have the chance to defend yourself. It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Ferveo]

good point!

[Michaelk]

I dont get the pepper spray thing either. I have had tear gas a few times and it is --------. I cant even think of a good word to describe it-stifling perhaps. The nose thing would hurt, but tear gas just keeps on burning till you rub it, then it really kicks in..

Try it and perhaps you will better understand it-pepper.
Tear gas is not pepper spray.

[langenc]

It IS stupid. If you don't want to break the law, what are other options?

I've always figured you could carry a big ass canister of bear spray or OC spray. If they have no experience with it, they're going to have a hard time carrying on the massacre once you hosed them down (even if you died in the process).

Some dean or VP of something will probably say that bear spray is not allowed.

[somebody]

Some dean or VP of something will probably say that bear spray is not allowed.

I realize this is a dead thread risen from the grave, but I want to quote this statement and clarify: at least at MSU, there's already an ordinance that prohibits bear spray. They would consider it a "weapon" and "weapons" are banned. They consider everything a weapon from a multi-tool with a knife on it, to ORM-D small arms cartridges, to whatever they want to say is a weapon.

[Frisco_AZMI]

Did anyone think to lock the door?

Did anyone think to grab the fire extinguisher? (Spray them in the face with the white foam, then beat the **** out of them with the big red canister?).

Did anyone have a knife?

Did anyone take a leadership position and get people to act?

I an NOT criticizing...but there is an impetus to act, and a necessity to look at every one of the rooms you enter and identify potential weapons and objects that will lock/block/barricade the door.

It is not "your" responsibility to protect the sheep, it is your responsibility to survive...and often the by-product of your own survival will be the survival of those around you.