LEO Interactions

[Jim Simmons]

We haven't done a survey of CPL interactions with LEOs in a while. It's been long enough the bugs should mostly be worked out. If you've been stopped by a LEO while carrying a concealed pistol since July 1, 2004, please report it here.

I'll start, since I finally got caught. I was in the U.P. on Easter Sunday, on one of those roads that goes straight for a thousand miles, and there was no one else on it; so naturally, I was sorta letting it all hang out. The MSP trooper came over the hill, and by the time I passed him, he was on the berm to U-turn; I had my car pulled over before he completed his turn.

I had my window open by the time he got to me; before he said anything I said "Officer, I have a concealed pistol license and I am carrying a pistol, [located on my person]." He asked me to repeat where the pistol was, and I told him. He asked me where my wallet was (in my vest pocket.) He told me to keep my hands away from where the pistol was located. He asked me for my driver's license and CPL first, then asked for the registration and proof of insurance. I told him they were in the glove box, and specifically asked permission to lean over and get them. He told me to go ahead, so I got them and he took them all back to his car. (Interestingly, he then pulled his car back to about 50 yards behind my car.) A few minutes later, he pulled back up, and came back and gave me my documentation back, along with my citation.

By the time he radared me, I was down to 85 (no I won't say where I came down to 85 from :oops: ), but he wrote me for 69/55. He then sent me on my way.

Very polite, very professional, no tension or problems.

How have other interactions gone?

[Knimrod]

A month or two ago I was pulled over for speeding on I-96 near Howell. It was a classic speed trap with a half dozen sheriff's cars and 2 MSP Troopers manning laser guns on motorcycles. I was behind another car in the left lane who was slowing down, and then changed into the right lane. I accelerated past just in time to see the trap.

A Deputy pulled me over and when he got to my window, I already had my wallet on the dash in front of me. I informed him I had a CPL and I was currently armed. He asked where the weapon was and I told him. He informed me I was clocked doing 81 in a 70 MPH zone. He then asked what I was carrying and we got into a brief, casual conversation about the XD-9 SC and how I liked it, etc..

He was very friendly and I don't think he even looked at my CPL. He went back to his car for 2-3 minutes, came back with my DL and said, "Go forth and sin no more. Have a good day!", all with a smile. That was it. I can only hope they all go that well.

[jr-vass]

(SNIPS) I'll start, since I finally got caught. I was in the U.P. on Easter Sunday, on one of those roads that goes straight for a thousand miles, and there was no one else on it; so naturally, I was sorta letting it all hang out. (SNIPS)

M-28? The "Seney Stretch"? Be happy you didn't see a close-up of a moose in your windshield!

About 20 years ago my brother got nailed doing about 110mph there picking me up at NMU, and he handed the MSP his W. Germany drivers license. They made him pay the fine on the spot with a credit card. He then had the nickname... Captain Autobahn.

They don't screw around in the wilderness. You need to practice your 50-yard shooting! :lol:

James

[Roger Roney]

<snip> I was down to 85 (no I won't say where I came down to 85 from :oops: )<snip>Aaawwww, C'mon Jim, tell us the truth. You CAN'T say 'cause the needle was pegged!! :twisted: :D :D :D

Roger

[Divegeek]

Ah yes, the infamous Seney Stretch. Try hitting it at about 4 or 5 in the morning while wired on caffeine, and listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. It gets kind of surreal. I can say that in all of my jaunts back and forth to school in Houghton, I never got busted on the Seney Stretch. But then again this was in the days before Laser Speed detectors and my Radar Detector saved my butt a number of times.

Haven't had any roadside discussions with our esteemed members of law enforcement in a few years so I don't have any stories to add at this time.

[bluethunder]

I got stopped at mile marker 212? West Branch outlet mall exit( spped trap). Going up hunting. I knew I was had and pulled over imediately. He was a Deputy with the Ogemaw Co SD? Had my CPL and DL in my hand when he approached, on the LEFT (I was looking for him to be on the drivers side ,so he took me by surprise)side of the truck. Asked where it was, I told him, no biggie never wanted to see it or anything. Asked a couple of weird questions though, #1 "Is this a original or a renewal license." Since I have a few extra endorsements, he asked if my chauffers license was work related. I found them strange as I've never been asked them before. Any ideas as to why? Jim? Then asked me where I was going(hunting), etc. Went back to his car(didn't back up :P , Jim). Came back with my 'souvineer' and we went our seperate ways. All in all a very smooth stop. I wish the same to all who have a encounter with Michigan's Finest.

[Autumnlovr]

My encounter with the MSP was on M-59, someone had rear-ended my truck (poor sucker slid under the trailer hitch and put a crease up this hood...not a scratch on my truck). We (me and the poor sucker) were standing outside of our vehicles when the trooper pulled up. Poor sucker handed over his license, I handed over my license & CPL and told the trooper that my pistol was locked in the truck. The trooper just nodded and not another word was said about it. The poor sucker's jaw dropped and I just knew I could read "Holy Crap! I just hit a woman who carries a gun!" on his face. No tickets were issued and we all went on our way. Overall, a very polite encounter on all parts. :wink:

[hd1.]

Got stopped by a Waco Sheriff deputy on Hines Drive about midnight. His opening statement was "What's your hurry?" (I already had my wallet on the dash board, window down, and hands back on the wheel.) I ignored his question and informed him that I was licensed to, and indeed was, carrying a concealed weapon. He said "uh-huh, let me have you drivers license and proof of insurance". He went back to his car and returned with a speeding ticket for me. He advised me to appear in court to avoid points against my driving record. He showed no concern about the gun.

In court, several other people were appearing for speeding tickets in Hines Park (different days, but around midnight in each case). The magistrate was changing the charge to a no-point offense for all who appeared. Still, all told, it cost each $110. Caution: Hines Drive after dark is a money maker for Waco. (The deputy accused me of going 55mph in a 40mph zone. My cruise was set at 45mph, and he wrote me for 45mph.)

[Jim Simmons]

My encounter with the MSP was on M-59, someone had rear-ended my truck (poor sucker slid under the trailer hitch and put a crease up this hood...not a scratch on my truck). We (me and the poor sucker) were standing outside of our vehicles when the trooper pulled up. Poor sucker handed over his license, I handed over my license & CPL and told the trooper that my pistol was locked in the truck. The trooper just nodded and not another word was said about it. The poor sucker's jaw dropped and I just knew I could read "Holy Crap! I just hit a woman who carries a gun!" on his face. No tickets were issued and we all went on our way. Overall, a very polite encounter on all parts. :wink:

A comment about interactions like Lauren's: if at all possible, inform the LEO outside the other person's earshot. There are people out there who, upon hearing you have a pistol, will immediately accuse you of waving it at them. Especially in an accident situation.

[45 acp]

About mid July 2004 I changed from the left lane into the right lane there was a motorcycle in the right lane riding in my blind spot.
( I drive a full size pickup with a club cab and a 8 foot box with a topper IE Big bling spot on the right rear) Any way I just about had the motorcycle in to the curb before I saw him . The motor cycle was a police Harley the officer was not happy.
I pulled over and had my license and cpl in my hand and the window down.

The officer approached the window and said " DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ALMOST KILLED ME?"
I handed him my CPL and said I was carrying the gun in a holster on my
right hip.
He said I dont need that I need your damn drivers license he never looked at my CPL. He wrote a citation for improper lane change.
CPL was not a problem with that stop.
Maybe he was more concerned about changing his underware than my CPL.

Then in Febuary 2005 my son the 17 year old had his first accident. He used the cell phone to call me and I arrived about 10 min before the police did.
My son's car had the raidator crunched and lost all the coolant it was about minus 15 degrees that morning so we were sitting in my truck to keep warm when the police arrived.
The officer came up to the drivers window and asked what happened?
I said I have a CPL and that I am armed. He got this weird puzzled look on his face and the he said " Why are you telling me that sir?" I just kinda said well duh the law says I have to.
He never asked to see my CPL he just wanted my son to get his License insurance and registration and come back to the patrol car.
I waited in the truck while he did his thing and issued my son a ticket for too fast for conditions. My son got in the truck and I drove him to school.
No problem with having a CPL that time.

[bluethunder]

[: if at all possible, inform the LEO outside the other person's earshot. There are people out there who, upon hearing you have a pistol, will immediately accuse you of waving it at them. Especially in an accident situation.


:thup: And that is a very important thing to remember. They could certainly put a spin on their account of the events of the crash(and before).

[keyjockey]

Jim Simmons wrote:
<snip> I was down to 85 (no I won't say where I came down to 85 from )<snip>
Aaawwww, C'mon Jim, tell us the truth. You CAN'T say 'cause the needle was pegged!!


Yeah, C'mon Jim.........was the speedo pegged. :shock: You can tell us. :D :D

[M1911A1]

My last encounter was rather pleasant, all things considered.
I had been traveling in the early morning last fall during a light drizzle. Not exceeding the speed limit by any respectable margin, very early for my destination with plenty of time to spare, in numbers about 71-72 MPH in a 70 zone. The pavement was just damp enough to be slick.
I noticed headlights flash in my rearview and saw, about forty car lenghts back a small (white) car and a large (white) SUV (excursion sized) engaged in what I would call a road rage incident. i don't know who did what to whom as when I saw it the bungholery was already in progress. I assessed my situation and noted a green mini van about eight cars ahead and to the right of me in the center lane and a small red car in front of me in the left lane about twelve car lengths ahead. The road rage pair approached in the center lane, The little white car cut in front of me with barely a car length to spare and the big white SUV wedged into that spot. The little white car jammed on his brake as did the big SUV and so did I! I also cut to the right, knowing the green mini van was far enough ahead to not be a problem although my line of sight to it was now obstructed by the SUV. My tail began to skid so I steered into the skid then I began to skid the other way steering back and forth while sliding across three lanes on to the right shoulder where my rear wheel hit gravel and my car slid sideways to a halt on the grass off of the freeway where it promptly stalled. I took a moment to collect myself and restarted the engine, started to pull forward and noticed the thump of a flat tire. Upon inspection I discovered that both right tires had been stripped from the wheels and were flat. I began calling to arrange for my impending absence and during those calls a female state trooper approached the right side of my car and asked if I was all right. I immediately disclosed, in the manner that Jim prescribes in his legal lecture. The lady trooper said, Ok thanks. Then asked about the incident. After all the reports were written up, she then said, as almost an after thought that she should see my CPL. I gladly accommodated her. She then offered me a ride back to Livingston county where I could make arrangements for my car. I thanked her and accepted. She informed me that I would need to give her control of my pistol and I answered "No problem. I'm glad you can take me someplace off of this freeway!"
She informed me that her partner was still in the troopermobile and that she has informed him of me CPL status. so I could take my pistol out. I explained that I carry a 1911 in condition 1 and that I felt it would be best if I simply unsnapped my belt loops and let her remove the pistol complete with the holster for the best in possible safety. She agreed and the transaction went smoothly. She gave charge of the holstered pistol to her partner and we were off towards "home" During the ride, the radio came back with the plate they had gotten as a report for the big SUV and it was an invalid plate reported stolen about two months prior. The troopers dropped me off at a restaurant and the partner suggested that I reconceal my pistol while sheltered from view with his car door as to not alarm any patrons in the eatery that might be viewing the transaction. I thanked him for his consideration and thanked the lady trooper once again for being understanding and for the ride.
They were very nice about it and quite friendly about the entire encounter.
I must admit to being a bit out of sorts with the adrenaline pumping after the road incident but remembered to try to keep calm and disclose first thing. The troopers made it much easier with their professional and understanding demeanor.

[Toxie]

I've cought several people, all have been polite and upfront about it. Haven't had to violate anyone yet- Even though I could have twice (ignorant instructors are your enemy). Im such a big softie.

[Fiddler]

My encounter with the MSP was on M-59, someone had rear-ended my truck (poor sucker slid under the trailer hitch and put a crease up this hood...not a scratch on my truck). We (me and the poor sucker) were standing outside of our vehicles when the trooper pulled up. Poor sucker handed over his license, I handed over my license & CPL and told the trooper that my pistol was locked in the truck. The trooper just nodded and not another word was said about it. The poor sucker's jaw dropped and I just knew I could read "Holy Crap! I just hit a woman who carries a gun!" on his face. No tickets were issued and we all went on our way. Overall, a very polite encounter on all parts. :wink:

I had a similiar experience, except that after the guy hit me and we pulled over and called the police, he proceeded to berate me and my driving up one side and down the other with a long string of expletives. Once I saw where the conversation was going I told the guy I would wait in my car until the police arrived. Once the officer arrived, I got out of my car and calmly approached the officer and other driver, who was still showing a great deal of anger, primarily because as it turned out, that was his wife's car he had just messed up, and he had just gotten it out of the body shop.:shock: (You have to wonder about a guy like that). I quietly disclosed to the officer. It was my intention to only tell the officer, but as I did, the other driver, the same guy who had just exhausted every profanity known to man, turned as white as a ghost. His jaw hit the floor as he looked at me in disbelief and he took about 4 steps back, while the police officer just smiled and thanked me for telling him. The other driver had a whole new attitude for the remainder of the encounter. The officer gave the guy his citation and sent him on his way first, and then complimented me on how calmly I handled the situation, "especially for a woman." He said a lot of women in my situation would have been crying or hysterical, but nothing else was said about the fact that I was carrying a gun. :wink: The Leo interaction was by far the most pleasant part of the encounter.

[bluethunder]

I've cought several people, all have been polite and upfront about it. Haven't had to violate anyone yet- Even though I could have twice (ignorant instructors are your enemy). Im such a big softie.



You're a good man for being understanding. :thup: I'm curious, Toxie. What is it that they're saying to get the students (almost) in trouble? PM or e-mail if you prefer.

[Kouger]

All of us instructors would like to know please

[Toxie]

Some Jackass forgot to tell them that if you have your gun in the car (For example: you put in under your seat because you went into the mall which is a CEZ, then left it under there for the ride home) it's still considered concealed and carried.

That one twice, and I forgot to ask where they were tought. Had one guy argue with me about giving me his gun so I could see who it was regestered to. He wasn't told that either. Thats a rather big deal and a potentially dangerous sitiuation for some people (you ALL know how some people are).

[WhoIsJohnGalt]

I thought Michigan didn't have handgun registration. :shock: 8)

[G22]

8. What are the steps necessary to purchase and legally possess a pistol in Michigan without a concealed pistol license?

MCL 28.422 & MCL 28.429 The prospective purchaser must successfully pass (70%) a basic pistol safety questionnaire and obtain a License to Purchase, which is valid for 10 days, from the local law enforcement agency. The purchaser must sign a notarized sworn statement that they meet the Michigan qualifications to purchase/obtain a pistol. At the time of the purchase, the purchaser and the seller complete the form. The License to Purchase, along with the pistol, must be returned to the local law enforcement agency within 10 days to obtain a Safety Inspection Certificate (registration).

In every instance that the MSP uses the phrase "Safety Inspection Certificate", (registration) always follows.

They openly admit what it really is.

As far as LEO encounters,
I was pulled over last fall by a Warren cop at 5:30am on my way to work.
Actually he pulled me and another guy over at the same time for speeding. I did all the right things, light on, ID ready, hands on the wheel.
He came up and asked for my ID, reg... I told him I had a CPL and that I was not carrying at the time. He said ok & took my info & went back to the other guy and got his info. When he came back, he gave me a warning, said slow it down, gives me my info back & says have a nice day, i thank him & am on my way. No ticket.

[bluethunder]

Hey Toxie, what kind of guff was he giving you? He wasn't claiming citizenship from his own country, was he? :wink: But seriously, the more feedback we(LEO's and Instructors) get the smoother it will be for all parties concerned.

[Toxie]

Something about the local Tim Horton's. Big tip: Don't be a ********. That one should be blatantly obvious :).

Just ahhh, stay cool. I beleieve the correect term is professional. To omany people seem to think that OLNY the police have to be professional. ABout 95% of the officers you meet will care less about your gun, 3% will want to talk with you about it, and the other 2% are Cheifs and hate guns.

[bluethunder]

and the other 2% are Cheifs and hate guns.


Sad, but true. :x It does appear that the 95% "care less", in a good way, according to our informal poll. Personally, not being a ******** is top of my priorities list(unless you ask the wife :shock: ) And you've got a great point, both parties need to be professional. Thanks for the tips.

[Ken P]

wow..not one account of a LEO being a jackass about it...

can't say i'm surprised...our LEO's do us proud..

I've had 4 or 5 encounters all no issue...you can read them on Barb's site if you really need to hear of my exploits...LOL

[Dave]

My only experience came a couple years ago while they were working on I69 here in Flint.

Stop signs were posted at the top of the on ramps due to construction. I was on my way to have my new .45 "safety inspected" when I was hit from behind while waiting to get on the expressway.

When the officer arrived I immediately handed him my drivers license, registration, insurance cert, and my cpl as I informed him of the fact that I had a gun. His response was "I don't blame you, living in Flint" as he handed my cpl back to me. :lol: He got my side of the story and went back to his car. A short time later he returned my stuff to me and sent me on my way.

[ZIPGRAVER]

wow..not one account of a LEO being a jackass about it...

can't say i'm surprised...our LEO's do us proud..

I've had 4 or 5 encounters all no issue...you can read them on Barb's site if you really need to hear of my exploits...LOL

Oh yeah??? Well I had a nice incident yesterday. It didn't involve a CPL buy it did involve and new cop in Sylvan Lake that apparently doesn't know or care about the law. I was driving my little Honda Ruckus...which is a moped... around my village when I noticed the cop slide in behind me and start following me. I didn't think much of it because they all know me or so I thought. Well as I was leaving Sylvan and entering Keego this moron hits the siren. When riding a scooter that can be very disconcerting. :evil: So I pulled over not knowing what the hell was wrong. This wise guy comes up and says "I don't see you license plate" I said "This is a moped I don't have a license plate I have a sticker and it's right on the back fender" Him "Yeah I see it" Me "Why did you stop me" Him "I thought this was a motor cycle" Me "Well it's not" Him "Your lights and everything are working OK. I'm not going to write you a ticket but I'm giving you a heads up... better wear your helmet" Me "In Michigan no helmet is requires for riding a moped" Him "In Michigan?" Me "Don't know the law huh?" Him "How many CCs?" Me "49.9" Him "HAH" Me "The state titled it I didn't" Him "Show me your license. When I find out about that helmet I'll be in touch" Me "OK but you better find out who I am" With that he got back in his car and drove off. I will be meeting with the Chief today. Little punk. He owes me an apology and I'll get it. I live in a very small burg 2800 people and we all tend to know each other. This was a new cop.

[M1911A1]

Well Gary, I have to say you are correct for your situation.
The laws governing mopeds ARE very different from those governing motorcycles.
Mpeds are defined by michigan law as a motor driven cycle with an engine displacement of less than 50 cc, and less than two brake horsepower, having a gearing system that does not require the operator to manually shift gears and can attain a speed of not greater that 30 mph on a straight and level mile using a mile to accelerate.
In Michigan, a youth may get a license to operate a moped at the age of fifteen (15) No cyclist endorsement is required to operate a moped if the operator has a valid Michigan operators license. Moped operators under the age of nineteen (19) are required to wear a DOT approved helmet. Over the age of 19 a helmet is optional.
Mopeds are not entitled to a full lane like a motorcycle (or a car0 and may not ride two abreast. Moped traffics rules are similar to bicycles. They share the lane with traffic and are to stay to the right of traffic. No passeneger may be carried on a moped.
Mopeds are licensed by an elongated stcker that MUST be displayed on the rear fender of the moped. It is good for three years.

Gary, I know you are about 26 or 27, like me, :roll: so it IS legal for us to ride mopeds without a bucket!

I will say that I see a lot of kids who are WAY under fifteen riding them in either a reckless or cavalier manner. I also see youths with passengers and trying to act like they are on motorcycles (two abreast, out in traffic lanes.) I have seen them pass Law Enforcement Officials unmolested. I often wonder why the LEOs let those youths slide on such flagrant safety violations. I am dumbfounded that the parents of those children will provide an illegal motor vehicle for them, allow them to operate said vehicle without a license and allow the children to be so reckless.

[ZIPGRAVER]

Well that's true Marty... my grandson got a permit for my moped when he was 15 and he WORE a helmet. This cop was just being a plick. :shock: :P

[Quaamik]

Not a real "stop" but......

Background:
I was not carrying (too many issues with me carrying at work) and I don't like leaving it in my vehicle for 10 - 12 hours a day so I didn't have my pistol with me at the time.


I managed to lock my keys in my truck after work. With the engine running. Called Auburn Hills police and asked for their assistance. Took them under 10 minutes to get there (that's a compliment).

They asked for my liscense and registration to make certain the vehicle was mine. When I opened my wallet to get my license, the first thing the officer saw was my CPL. His partner (younger) saw it as well, and shot a questioning glance at the officer I was handing my paperwork to. Nothing was mentioned regarding the CPL and I wasn't asked if I had a firearm with me. They worked a bit and managed to open the truck. I thanked them and they (and I) left.