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View Full Version : I'm in an arguement on another forum about firearms, and....



Cherokee
04-28-2005, 05:55 PM
And wonder if you thought I handled it with enough facts:



He said:
I've never had occasion to use the word "pistol" and the word "safe" in the same sentence!

I said:
Any pistol is "safe". Its the idiot handling it thats not too safe at times. Anyways, this is not ment to be a firearms thread, please dont turn it into one.

He said:
So sorry I may have offended you with my post. Perhaps if you volunteered your services at a large children's hospital as I do you might understand my feelings better. Sometimes the "idiots" are merely the innocent offspring of other "idiots" -- but I guess you would know best.

Then I said:
I knew I was going to get goated into this.
First, you did not offend me. I was mearly correcting your wrong statement.

I would know best about idiots? I did not start this thread with a firearm debate in mind, But...since you seem to not know anything about this world, I'll be happy to inform you.

I, in fact, have volunteered my time a 2 large major hospitols. I know for a fact, your not going to find a childrens ward full of gun shot victims. Sure, it happens, but not like you would want others to think.

Fact:
According to the National Safety Council,
0.1% of all deaths for children in the U.S. between ages 0-14 are from firearms.
Suffocations 42.6%
Other 35.1%
Transportation (not automobiles) 6.0%
Poisoning 6.0%
Struck by (beatings, bludgeoning, accidentals) 5.3%
Natural/environmental 3.7%
Motor Vehicle 0.6%
Drowning 0.3%
Fire/hot substance 0.2%
Firearms 0.1%

Fact:
The Center for Disease Control. According to them, in 1999 kids 0-14 years died from the following causes in the U.S.:
Automobiles 2608
Drowning 1010
Pedestrian 675
Bicycle 201
Firearms 142

Whats this? I guess we should ban all Bicycles? After all, more died from them than a firearm.

Fact:
According to the National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics Report,
Children are 12 times more likely to die in an automobile accident than from gun-related homicides or legal interventions (being shot by a cop, for example) if they are age 0-14.

Uhoh, ban all automobiles!!!!!!!!!

Fact:
According to Centers for Disease Control,
In 1996, there were only 21 accidental firearm deaths for children under age 15. Contrast this with 40 kids under age five that drowned in buckets and 80 that drowned in tubs (i.e. parents could have prevented six (6) times as many drowning deaths as they could firearm deaths).

Twice as many drown in a bucket of liquid than a firearm...BAN ALL BUCKETS!!!

Fact:
U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, NCJ-143454, "Urban Delinquency and Substance Abuse," states,
Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use and are even less delinquent than non-owners of guns.

Fact:
According to Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention , “Kids and Guns”, 2000,
Eight times as many children die from non-gun violent acts than from gun crimes. This indicates that the problem is violence, not guns.

Fact: Fatal gun accidents for children ages 0-14 declined by almost 46% from 1975 to 1995, and 60% for all ages – all while the number of guns per capita increased by almost 40%.

Fact:
According to the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics,
82% of homicides to children age 13 and under were committed without a gun.

Next time, maybe you should think twice about starting a debate about something you know little about. But then again, I'm more than happy to school you on the truth.

Happy Camping.......

These were taken from Gun Facts 3.0. I hear there is a newer version, but I dont have it.
Do you think I got the point across?

BigDaddy40
04-28-2005, 06:15 PM
i think the guy is still smokin lol

good job 8)

M1911A1
04-28-2005, 06:19 PM
About the only nit I could pick is that any pistol is safe. I would qualify that with any properly operating pistol. Some rusted relic from the attic might not be safe.
Then again, that's among gun people. For non gun types, they'd never understand a safe pistol versus a malfunctioning pistol.

Cherokee
04-28-2005, 06:31 PM
Good nic-pic, but the wording of his opening barb lead me to believe he wasnt a gun person.

ANIMAL
04-29-2005, 02:22 PM
You forgot how many doctors kill folks compared to firearms.

goldwing2000
04-29-2005, 02:42 PM
I'd love to see the response (if he dares to even post one).

Kimber45
04-29-2005, 03:13 PM
You forgot how many doctors kill folks compared to firearms.

That study is often cited but is greatly flawed. One error in the typical citation is that it is about deaths caused by physicians. In fact the study was about medical error, e.g., a pharmacists error in filling a prescription or a nurses error in giving the wrong drug not just physician error.

More importantly though is the fact that the data set that the numbers were drawn from was unreliably small. See below:



These figures for deaths due to medical error are not real numbers at all, but represent extrapolations from extraordinarily small samples. For example, the figure of 98,000 deaths nationally is conflated from a controversial analysis of only 180 actual deaths that occurred among more than 30,000 acutely ill, hospitalized patients.

...

Given these serious deficiencies in their test methods, it comes as no surprise that when the same group attempted to replicate their study in Colorado and Utah using the same methods, they came up with a calculation suggesting 44,000 deaths due to medical error. It is thus just as plausible to infer that preventable medical deaths actually fell by 55% (98,000 to 44,000) from 1984 to 1992.

See also: -
http://www.thedoctors.com/reference/1996-2002/iomresponse.asp

Cherokee
04-30-2005, 04:04 AM
No, he never responded.

M1911A1
04-30-2005, 07:04 PM
Hey Cherokee, I saw that thread. I'm on that forum too.
I added a comment. By the way, the one I'm looking at is at The Firing Line but I didn't think it wise to mention that over there

HkP7
05-15-2005, 06:20 PM
Goodjob Cherokee!

garyjt
05-19-2005, 06:10 PM
You forgot how many doctors kill folks compared to firearms.

That study is often cited but is greatly flawed.

Yes, it is greatly flawed, but probably true.

Who knows the real numbers, but I tend to think the numbers are actually low. We will never know today, because of all the security/privacy with patient records - even other hospital staff cannot look at a patient records unless they are invovled directly in that patients care.

There are too many people involved in the care of patients to really find out just who was the one responsible for a death, nurse, techician, physican, whatever, and what really caused the death, and would he have died anyways. Most accidental deaths caused by carelessness or by an intern who has been working for 36 hours without sleep, is not going to be recorded in the hospital chart in a way that shows the doc goofed up. A lot of deaths is just caused by over worked and understaffed hospitals. There just are not enough nurses to provide safe care and monitoring.

Doctors and nurses kill a lot of people, and hospitals are very dangerous places, but the odds are , that you will be helped, not hurt.