HB 4009 & 4010 Eliminate no carry zones

[Tallbear]

HB 4009 of 2011 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2011-HB-4009)
Weapons; concealed; specified premises on which a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon may not carry that weapon; eliminate.
Last Action: 1/13/2011 referred to Committee on Judiciary

HB 4010 of 2011 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2011-HB-4010)
Criminal procedure; sentencing guidelines; crime of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place; delete from guidelines due to repeal of section establishing the violation. TIE BAR WITH: HB 4009'11
Last Action: 1/13/2011 referred to Committee on Judiciary

[pkuptruck]

now this is good news!

[Pyzik]

Woohoo!

I'll be watching this. Got my fingers ready for emailing.

[Melski]

Sounds great. Who do we contact to firmly recommend that this passes?

[mikeb32]

Good News......We need to Pushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[turbolag23]

sweet, hopefully this passes

[BOSS302]

Awesome news.

Please keep us updated so we know when to contact our Reps.

[CrimDoc]

I worked with Rep. LeBlanc on a similar bill during the last legislative session ... unfortunately, it died in committee.

I'll contact him to see who's ear we might be able to whisper in to get a better result this time 'round.

[Tallbear]

I worked with Rep. LeBlanc on a similar bill during the last legislative session ... unfortunately, it died in committee.

I'll contact him to see who's ear we might be able to whisper in to get a better result this time 'round.

Once committee's are set, we'll be ready to work on this.

[MP15TDriver]

So, what are the real chances we can get this through? It would be great.

[45 acp]

So, what are the real chances we can get this through? It would be great.
Every one contact your Reps and urge them to support this especially newly elected Reps now is the time to see if the newly elected Reps will hear our voices or ignore what we want and do what they "THINK"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is best.

[Leader]

:banana:

[dazednconfused75]

This is one bill that all of us need to do whatever we can to get it passed. I'll be patiently watching the progression.

[Chopper]

this is great news

[Melski]

Get on the phone, email and US Post Office. Gun free zones need to be eliminated.

Click on the bill to bring up the information then click on Legislators in the left hand column. Then click on "Contact your Legislator". You can list them all or find your specific representative.

Contact them all!!

[dazednconfused75]

Richard LebLanc is a Democrat. :whacko:

[Dansjeep2000]

Richard LebLanc is a Democrat. :whacko:
Glad to see he is pro gun and pro carry!!

[Dansjeep2000]

Once committee's are set, we'll be ready to work on this.
Please let us know when the time is right to start sending out the E-mails!

[DEVIL DOG]

JUST FYI, I SENT A NOTE TO BOTH OF MY REPS, URGING THEM TO SUPPORT THESE BILLS.
ALSO THE DUNDEE CABELAS IS HOSTING A 2D A CONFERENCE FEB,5&6. ON SAT. LT.GOV. CALLEY WILL BE THERE FOR A Q&A SESSION AT 1:00. MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO SEE HOW THE NEW ADMINISTRATION FEELS ABOUT OUR ISSUES.

[CoponPatrol]

There shouldn't be any PFZ's or CFZ's. Anyone rightfully carrying should not have to lock it in a car, keep it at home, or not go to any event because he or she is armed. Hope these bills pass.

[Quaamik]

Now this is a good bill!

[rigges]

I con cur this should be a good passage.

How many states have this now I know Colorado does they say legally armed students keep problems from happening rape is down 100% on campus and other crimes are down too.

Hope to hear more.

[TheQ]

On OpenCarry.org I've started a thread encouraging people to call everyone on the Judiciary Committee. Here is my post:

We should contact people to get this bill moving.

HB 4009 would repeal MCL 28.425o. Thereby making it legal for anyone with a CPL to carry concealed ANYWHERE in the State. No more PFZs. This would ALSO clear up ANY question about "legislative intent" of the "CPL Open Carry loophole", making it FAR less of a "loophole".

Therefore, let's make a day to call them -- everyone on the same day. Here's the plan -- On Thur. January 20, 2011 call as many of these Reps as you can. If you can't call them all then be sure to call the Chair and Vice Chairs. Tell them you'd like them to support HB 4009, which is presently in front of the Judiciary Committee on which they sit. If you get tongue tied, consider saying this:


Hello, I'd like to speak to the staff person who deals with issues related to the Judiciary Committee. (Wait to be connected) Hi, My name is, (insert your name) and I'm calling to urge Rep. (Insert the Representative's name here) to support HB 4009. HB 4009 allows lawful citizens who have a concealed pistol permit to carry their handguns concealed anywhere in Michigan so that they can better protect themselves, those they love, and others around them. I believe this will make us all safer. I believe if more people in Arizona carried firearms the recent tragedy wouldn't have had nearly as many victims. I hope (he/she) will consider supporting this bill and talk to Chairman Walsh about bringing the bill up for a vote at the committee. I hope during that vote (he/she) will vote to send it to the House Floor with a favorable recommendation.

If you are calling Chairman Walsh you can say:



Hello, I'd like to speak to the staff person who deals with issues related to the Judiciary Committee. (Wait to be connected) Hi, My name is, (insert your name) and I'm calling to urge Rep. Walsh to support HB 4009. HB 4009 allows lawful citizens who have a concealed pistol permit to carry their handguns concealed anywhere in Michigan so that they can better protect themselves, those they love, and others around them. I believe this will make us all safer. I believe if more people in Arizona carried firearms the recent tragedy wouldn't have had nearly as many victims. I hope Chairman Walsh will consider making this a priority for the committee and I hope he'll send it with a favorable recommendation to the House floor for a full vote.

If it is YOUR Representative that you're calling BE SURE to tell them you are from their district and you'll be watching how they vote.

It was referred to the House Judiciary Committee. Here's a list of people on the committee so you can easily contact them:


Rep. John Walsh - 517.373.3920 - Chairman - Republican - District 19
Rep. Kurt Heise - 517.373.3816 - Majority Vice Chair - Republican - District 20
Rep. Jud Gilbert - 517.373.1790 - Republican - District 81
Rep. Ken Horn - 517.373.0837 - Republican - District 94
Rep. Paul Scott - 517.373.1780 - Republican - District 51
Rep. Kurt Damrow - 517.373.0476 - Republican - District 84 - THE MAN HAS A GUN ON HIS SHOULDER ON HIS WEBSITE!
Rep. Paul Muxlow - 517.373.0835 - Republican - District 83
Rep. Brad Jacobsen - No Phone Listed (Email on website) - Republican - District 46
Rep. Peter Pettalia - 517.373.0833 - Republican - District 106
Rep. Patrick Somerville - 517.373.0855 - Republican - District 23
Rep. Mark Meadows - 517.373.1786 - Minority Vice Chair - Democrat - District 69
Rep. Bob Constan - 517.373.0849 - Democrat - District 16
Rep. Stacy Oakes - 517.373.0152 - Democrat - District 95
Rep. Lisa Brown - 517.373.1799 - Democrat - District 39
Rep. Jeff Irwin - 517.373.2577 - Democrat - District 53
Rep. Phil Cavanagh - 517.373.0857 - Democrat - District 17
Rep. John Olumba - 517.373.0144 - Democrat - District 5


Many of the Websites also have toll free #'s if you don't want to burn your own dime.

Please call, even if your representative isn't on the list. If you can call no one else, please call the Chairman. I've done the leg work for you. I hope you'll honor my work by taking the time to call on Thur. January 20, 2011. If you can't call on Thursday or you're reading this post after the 21st of January, please call them as soon as possible!

[Dansjeep2000]

On OpenCarry.org I've started a thread encouraging people to call everyone on the Judiciary Committee. Here is my post:

We should contact people to get this bill moving.

HB 4009 would repeal MCL 28.425o. Thereby making it legal for anyone with a CPL to carry concealed ANYWHERE in the State. No more PFZs. This would ALSO clear up ANY question about "legislative intent" of the "CPL Open Carry loophole", making it FAR less of a "loophole".

Therefore, let's make a day to call them -- everyone on the same day. Here's the plan -- On Thur. January 20, 2011 call as many of these Reps as you can. If you can't call them all then be sure to call the Chair and Vice Chairs. Tell them you'd like them to support HB 4009, which is presently in front of the Judiciary Committee on which they sit. If you get tongue tied, consider saying this:



If you are calling Chairman Walsh you can say:




If it is YOUR Representative that you're calling BE SURE to tell them you are from their district and you'll be watching how they vote.

It was referred to the House Judiciary Committee. Here's a list of people on the committee so you can easily contact them:


Rep. John Walsh - 517.373.3920 - Chairman - Republican - District 19
Rep. Kurt Heise - 517.373.3816 - Majority Vice Chair - Republican - District 20
Rep. Jud Gilbert - 517.373.1790 - Republican - District 81
Rep. Ken Horn - 517.373.0837 - Republican - District 94
Rep. Paul Scott - 517.373.1780 - Republican - District 51
Rep. Kurt Damrow - 517.373.0476 - Republican - District 84 - THE MAN HAS A GUN ON HIS SHOULDER ON HIS WEBSITE!
Rep. Paul Muxlow - 517.373.0835 - Republican - District 83
Rep. Brad Jacobsen - No Phone Listed (Email on website) - Republican - District 46
Rep. Peter Pettalia - 517.373.0833 - Republican - District 106
Rep. Patrick Somerville - 517.373.0855 - Republican - District 23
Rep. Mark Meadows - 517.373.1786 - Minority Vice Chair - Democrat - District 69
Rep. Bob Constan - 517.373.0849 - Democrat - District 16
Rep. Stacy Oakes - 517.373.0152 - Democrat - District 95
Rep. Lisa Brown - 517.373.1799 - Democrat - District 39
Rep. Jeff Irwin - 517.373.2577 - Democrat - District 53
Rep. Phil Cavanagh - 517.373.0857 - Democrat - District 17
Rep. John Olumba - 517.373.0144 - Democrat - District 5


Many of the Websites also have toll free #'s if you don't want to burn your own dime.

Please call, even if your representative isn't on the list. If you can call no one else, please call the Chairman. I've done the leg work for you. I hope you'll honor my work by taking the time to call on Thur. January 20, 2011. If you can't call on Thursday or you're reading this post after the 21st of January, please call them as soon as possible!
Thank You!!!

[langenc]

Woohoo!

I'll be watching this. Got my fingers ready for emailing.


Check and see when your rep/senator has office hours around the district.

Stop and see them is very good, in addn to email. The personal visit shows em you mean it.

Tell em we want to get rid of registration--that shows em-we mean it.

My guy is on the committee. He will get a visit.

[TheQ]

Thank You!!!

No. Thank you!

Will you be calling on Thursday?

This plan has been endorsed by MOC. They mass mailed the plan to their members and copied to the MGO leadership asked them to do the same -- I hope they do!

[rigges]

Very Interesting

I will be calling on Thursday I may e-mail too and if mine is in the area I will go see him or her I do not know who mine is but I will find out.


Thank you for working this out and sharring the info with MOC and MGO good JOB.:banana: :bounce: :clap: :woohoo1:

[TheQ]

Very Interesting

I will be calling on Thursday I may e-mail too and if mine is in the area I will go see him or her I do not know who mine is but I will find out.


Thank you for working this out and sharring the info with MOC and MGO good JOB.:banana: :bounce: :clap: :woohoo1:


Please get the word out about Thursday. Email all your friends who can help us with this. Feel free to use my post to help you make your email.

[45/70fan]

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

Sec. 5c. (1) A license to carry a concealed pistol shall be in

a form, with the same dimensions as a Michigan operator license,

prescribed by the department of state police. The license shall

contain all of the following:





(a) The licensee's full name and date of birth.

(b) A photograph and a physical description of the licensee.

(c) A statement of the effective dates of the license.

(d) An indication of exceptions authorized by this act

applicable to the licensee.

(e) An indication whether the license is a duplicate.

(2) Subject to section 5o and except Except as otherwise

provided by law, a license to carry a concealed pistol issued by

the county concealed weapon licensing board authorizes the licensee

to do all of the following:

(a) Carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person

anywhere in this state.

(b) Carry a pistol in a vehicle, whether concealed or not

concealed, anywhere in this state.

Enacting section 1. Section 5o of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.425o, is

repealed.








(d) An indication of exceptions authorized by this act

applicable to the licensee. Shouldn't this also be deleted as it will no longer be applicable?

[PhotoTom]

(d) An indication of exceptions authorized by this act

applicable to the licensee. Shouldn't this also be deleted as it will no longer be applicable?

Yes, you are correct.

[45/70fan]

Yes, you are correct.

Thank You, I've already contacted my rep and asked that he try to get it deleted.

[esq_stu]

We should contact people to get this bill moving. . . .Please call, even if your representative isn't on the list. If you can call no one else, please call the Chairman. I've done the leg work for you. I hope you'll honor my work by taking the time to call on Thur. January 20, 2011. If you can't call on Thursday or you're reading this post after the 21st of January, please call them as soon as possible!Really need an organized effort. Wish we had a way to contact individual MGO members by district the way the NRA does.

As it stands now, each of us needs to figure out who our representatives are, if we don't already know. Then get their contact info. Then get off our butts to contact our reps.

How about an e-mail campaign? Figure out who our reps are. Write an e-mail containing their contact info. and a message. Send it to like-thinking friends.

[esq_stu]

I'm sending a bulk e-mail to members of a shooting club I belong to. How about some kind of post or sticky in each the Affiliate Organizations forums? Those organizations could get the word out to their memberships.

[PDinDetroit]

Speaking of Mass Emails...

Complete List of Representatives: http://house.michigan.gov/replist.asp

Complete List of Senators: http://senate.michigan.gov/SenatorInfo/alphabetical_list_of_senators.htm

Not sure that these are all correct...

[XDM 40 cal]

Im all for this ... There is not need for PFZ....you should be under the 2a beable to defend one self...

[Tallbear]

Some of you need to be working on the Legislative liaison from the Michigan State Police. Unless you can get them to buy into this, it will never get the votes needed to pass.

The reason those no carry zones where put into the original bill is because that was the only way the MSP would not oppose the bill. Without the MSP "approval" it's dead.

[bsf]

I spoke to one of Rep. Walsh’s legislative aids to discuss 4009 and 4010. I could not get anything out of him on Rep. Walsh’s opinion of or plan for these bills. It is early though, so that does not bother me. I also asked about the townhall meetings that Walsh holds every 3rd Friday of the month in his district. I am not in his district, but he indicated I am more than welcome to attend to discuss the issue FTF.

Who wants to attend the meeting? I plan on attending. The following is the meeting location and time.

Civic Park Senior Center
15218 Farmington Road
Livonia, MI 48154
January 21, 2011
1100-1200


I want to get cracking on this. I think it important to start hitting this from every angle to convince our legislators and the executive branch that there is considerable support for these bills.

[esq_stu]

What am I missing? The proposed legislation only does part of the job.

Seems to me all of Section 5o needs to be fixed. Subsection (1) needs to be repealed or severely reduced in scope. Otherwise, there is still a civil infraction and misdemeanor under subsections 5(a) and 5(b) for cc in the PFZs.

[PhotoTom]

What am I missing? The proposed legislation only does part of the job.

Seems to me all of Section 5o needs to be fixed. Subsection (1) needs to be repealed or severely reduced in scope. Otherwise, there is still a civil infraction and misdemeanor under subsections 5(a) and 5(b) for cc in the PFZs.

Per the bill:

Enacting section 1. Section 5o of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.425o, is repealed.


Seems thorough enough of a "fix" to me...!

[PDinDetroit]

What am I missing? The proposed legislation only does part of the job.

Seems to me all of Section 5o needs to be fixed. Subsection (1) needs to be repealed or severely reduced in scope. Otherwise, there is still a civil infraction and misdemeanor under subsections 5(a) and 5(b) for cc in the PFZs.

HOUSE BILL No. 4009 repeals all of Section 5o. No need to fix it - it will all be gone.

[esq_stu]

got it - duh!

[bsf]

Note: Rep. Walsh has townhall-style meetings on the 3rd FRIDAY of every month. I originally posted that incorrectly above.

[Dansjeep2000]

Who is the Legislative liaison from the Michigan State Police? Anyone have contact info for that office?

[bsf]

Who is the Legislative liaison from the Michigan State Police? Anyone have contact info for that office?
I believe Trooper Chris Hawkins was "a" legislative liaison for MSP and has testified in committee for the MSP previously.

ETA
The following comes from the MSP website. The Executive Resource Section of the Executive Division of the MSP “acts as a governmental liaison representing the department and statewide law enforcement on proposed legislation affecting the criminal justice system. Members testify at hearings, provide technical information to legislators, and interact with other law enforcement groups to ensure that enacted criminal justice legislation will benefit the citizens of Michigan.”

[DEVIL DOG]

Just received a call from Doug Geiss, said he spoke to Richard LeBlanc this morning about this issue. Said it was as previousy stated and they are both pressuring tha Judiciary Commitee to hold a hearing on this to get it going.
Said the major objections seem to be coming from the "BIG THREE", seems as tho' they don't want guns on Company property. I worked at FOMOCO for over 30 yrs. and the policy was always NO GUNS. Guess that makes sense.
I told him we plan on calling John Walsh and he agreed that was the right move right now. So let us stay unified in our efforts, & maybe we can get this done.

[PhotoTom]

Said the major objections seem to be coming from the "BIG THREE", seems as tho' they don't want guns on Company property. I worked at FOMOCO for over 30 yrs. and the policy was always NO GUNS. Guess that makes sense.


The "Big Three" needs to understand that there is nothing in 28.425o that stops anyone from carrying on their property now...therefore, this proposed legislative change has no bearing on their standing policies, etc. Nothing would change for them...

[bsf]

The "Big Three" needs to understand that there is nothing in 28.425o that stops anyone from carrying on their property now...therefore, this proposed legislative change has no bearing on their standing policies, etc. Nothing would change for them...
I agree. This neither impacts local or national contracts with the UAW for hourly employees, nor impacts contracts with salaried employees.

[bsf]

Dansjeep2000 is on the right track also, I believe. I have been told more than once that never has firearms legislation passed when opposed by MSP. I frankly have no idea how to address that, though.

[45/70fan]

I believe Trooper Chris Hawkins was "a" legislative liaison for MSP and has testified in committee for the MSP previously.

ETA
The following comes from the MSP website. The Executive Resource Section of the Executive Division of the MSP “acts as a governmental liaison representing the department and statewide law enforcement on proposed legislation affecting the criminal justice system. Members testify at hearings, provide technical information to legislators, and interact with other law enforcement groups to ensure that enacted criminal justice legislation will benefit the citizens of Michigan.”

The legislature is for the people, by the people and of the people. The various agencies should have absolutely no say in the legislation being put forth by our representatives. For instance the executive resource section of the MSP is directly under the appointed director, thus they are not an elected official and do not represent the interest of the people, only their boss who appointed them. So who do they represent? Of course the person responsible for them having a job.
If 1000 citizens wanted a piece of legislation passed and one person representing an appointee didn't according to the above; the legislation would not pass. Who is going to determine that it will
"...benefit the citizens of Michigan.” and not the agency instead.
For instance the majority of handgun owners want the pistol registry and process eliminated but the MSP executive resource section acting on behalf of a democratic appointed director didn't, what would happen to the legislation for the 'benefit of the citizens'? Of course it would fail, it did and will again if the MSP doesn't want it to happen, regardless of what the citizens want. They use it to justify the departments existence to the benefit of nobody but those working the department and their bosses. I would like to see one crime that has been prevented or solved because of this registry.

[BOSS302]

For instance the majority of handgun owners want the pistol registry and process eliminated but the MSP executive resource section acting on behalf of a democratic appointed director didn't, what would happen to the legislation for the 'benefit of the citizens'? Of course it would fail, it did and will again if the MSP doesn't want it to happen, regardless of what the citizens want. They use it to justify the departments existence to the benefit of nobody but those working the department and their bosses. I would like to see one crime that has been prevented or solved because of this registry.

Maybe we should suggest eliminating pistol registrations as a cost cutting measure for the State.

[PDinDetroit]

Maybe we should suggest eliminating pistol registrations as a cost cutting measure for the State.

Already on it! Stay tuned!

[sprinklerguy28]

A petition to submit to the Michigan State Legislature in regards to House Bills 4009 and 4010 of 2011 has been started. This petition will be submitted to all members of the Michigan State Legislature and to the Governor. I ask that you sign this petition and forward it to everyone you know. Let us send a clear message to those who represent us.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MIHB4009/petition.html

[hopeitsfast]

A petition to submit to the Michigan State Legislature in regards to House Bills 4009 and 4010 of 2011 has been started. This petition will be submitted to all members of the Michigan State Legislature and to the Governor. I ask that you sign this petition and forward it to everyone you know. Let us send a clear message to those who represent us.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MIHB4009/petition.html
#7

[bsf]

A petition is not hurtful to the effort, and I urge people to sign it. I do not believe an online petition is even remotely as important as calling legislator’s offices or speaking with them face to face. Please support the petition IN ADDITION to contacting your reps directly and fostering grass roots support. Please discuss this issue with others likely to support this, assisting them if necessary in contacting our legislators. Thank you.

[scrapinby]

I was number 170 on the online petition. I also emailed my State Representative and Senator.

[kevins_garage]

Some of you need to be working on the Legislative liaison from the Michigan State Police. Unless you can get them to buy into this, it will never get the votes needed to pass.

The reason those no carry zones where put into the original bill is because that was the only way the MSP would not oppose the bill. Without the MSP "approval" it's dead.
Call me crazy, but I don't see anything in it for MSP for them to buy into it.

If it by some chance does pass, what would there be to prevent any of the current PFZ's from remaining a PFZ? If they are "privately owned businesses", could they not just put up a sign that says no guns?

It seems to me like a win on this would ring hollow shortly after the victory party ended...

[kevins_garage]

Maybe we should suggest eliminating pistol registrations as a cost cutting measure for the State.


Already on it! Stay tuned!
I'd be happy to help with that in any way that I can - feel free to e-mail me.

[bsf]

Call me crazy, but I don't see anything in it for MSP for them to buy into it.

If it by some chance does pass, what would there be to prevent any of the current PFZ's from remaining a PFZ? If they are "privately owned businesses", could they not just put up a sign that says no guns?

It seems to me like a win on this would ring hollow shortly after the victory party ended...
MSP can oppose, support, or remain neutral. I am content with neutrality. That is an important issue, but as already stated, I have no idea how to address it, yet. Others are working on it, though. It is still very early, and much work will need to be done. I think a good first step is convincing the legislature there is large public support for the bills. The effort will need to be sustained. If people quit contacting legislators after a week, or even a month, I will not be optimistic.

Yes, private businesses could still post. Then, if we remain committed, we direct our money to business’ that do not post. Passage of these bills is not some decisive, final victory, after which we spend the rest of our days drinking wine and singing songs.

[PDinDetroit]

I'd be happy to help with that in any way that I can - feel free to e-mail me.

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=119774

[PDinDetroit]

Call me crazy, but I don't see anything in it for MSP for them to buy into it.

If it by some chance does pass, what would there be to prevent any of the current PFZ's from remaining a PFZ? If they are "privately owned businesses", could they not just put up a sign that says no guns?

It seems to me like a win on this would ring hollow shortly after the victory party ended...

I believe this video contains the correct argument to address privately owned businesses... The JUDGE is RIGHT!

GP1Wgkh5MeE

[james_joshua]

A petition to submit to the Michigan State Legislature in regards to House Bills 4009 and 4010 of 2011 has been started. This petition will be submitted to all members of the Michigan State Legislature and to the Governor. I ask that you sign this petition and forward it to everyone you know. Let us send a clear message to those who represent us.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MIHB4009/petition.html

#338 Thanks for the link.

Sent a thank you to my State Representative for introducing HB4009, and being a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment.

[XDM 40 cal]

#345...

Looking up my rep...and sending a email...

[Al Lowe]

neener, neener, neener. :tapdance: I'm number 60. :biggrin:

Now, if I could only figure out if MY rep is pro-2a or not.

[45/70fan]

Apparently this piece of legislation is on the front burner.

[Caribou]

#616
Now to write my rep.

[sprinklerguy28]

Thank you to all who are signing and forwarding this on. I will be printing a copy of the petition off and delivering it to the judiciary committee and again when the house has a vote on the bills.

[Dansjeep2000]

TODAY IS THE DAY TO CALL YOUR REP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On OpenCarry.org I've started a thread encouraging people to call everyone on the Judiciary Committee. Here is my post:

We should contact people to get this bill moving.

HB 4009 would repeal MCL 28.425o. Thereby making it legal for anyone with a CPL to carry concealed ANYWHERE in the State. No more PFZs. This would ALSO clear up ANY question about "legislative intent" of the "CPL Open Carry loophole", making it FAR less of a "loophole".

Therefore, let's make a day to call them -- everyone on the same day. Here's the plan -- On Thur. January 20, 2011 call as many of these Reps as you can. If you can't call them all then be sure to call the Chair and Vice Chairs. Tell them you'd like them to support HB 4009, which is presently in front of the Judiciary Committee on which they sit. If you get tongue tied, consider saying this:



If you are calling Chairman Walsh you can say:




If it is YOUR Representative that you're calling BE SURE to tell them you are from their district and you'll be watching how they vote.

It was referred to the House Judiciary Committee. Here's a list of people on the committee so you can easily contact them:


Rep. John Walsh - 517.373.3920 - Chairman - Republican - District 19
Rep. Kurt Heise - 517.373.3816 - Majority Vice Chair - Republican - District 20
Rep. Jud Gilbert - 517.373.1790 - Republican - District 81
Rep. Ken Horn - 517.373.0837 - Republican - District 94
Rep. Paul Scott - 517.373.1780 - Republican - District 51
Rep. Kurt Damrow - 517.373.0476 - Republican - District 84 - THE MAN HAS A GUN ON HIS SHOULDER ON HIS WEBSITE!
Rep. Paul Muxlow - 517.373.0835 - Republican - District 83
Rep. Brad Jacobsen - No Phone Listed (Email on website) - Republican - District 46
Rep. Peter Pettalia - 517.373.0833 - Republican - District 106
Rep. Patrick Somerville - 517.373.0855 - Republican - District 23
Rep. Mark Meadows - 517.373.1786 - Minority Vice Chair - Democrat - District 69
Rep. Bob Constan - 517.373.0849 - Democrat - District 16
Rep. Stacy Oakes - 517.373.0152 - Democrat - District 95
Rep. Lisa Brown - 517.373.1799 - Democrat - District 39
Rep. Jeff Irwin - 517.373.2577 - Democrat - District 53
Rep. Phil Cavanagh - 517.373.0857 - Democrat - District 17
Rep. John Olumba - 517.373.0144 - Democrat - District 5


Many of the Websites also have toll free #'s if you don't want to burn your own dime.

Please call, even if your representative isn't on the list. If you can call no one else, please call the Chairman. I've done the leg work for you. I hope you'll honor my work by taking the time to call on Thur. January 20, 2011. If you can't call on Thursday or you're reading this post after the 21st of January, please call them as soon as possible!

[turbolag23]

Wanted to add another contact

Rep. Hugh Crawford:: District 38
(517) 373-0827
district includes Lyon Township, part of Northville city, Novi city, Novi Township, South Lyon city, Walled Lake city and Wixom city.
Crawford is a U.S. Marine Corps veteran

[45/70fan]

Damrow has been contacted.

[Dansjeep2000]

Well I sent a Email to every rep on that list. here is the form letter I used and I wrote " Please Support HB 4009 & HB 4010" in the Subject line of the Emails

Honorable Rep. (reps name)

I am writing you today to express my concern with Michigan's laws on designated pistol free zones, and to ask that you please consider changing these laws which take away peoples rights to defend themselves.

I understand the concern some citizens may have with people carrying firearms in places like colleges, hospitals, and other pistol free zones, but we must remember that only law abiding citizens follow these laws. The only people that pistol free zones protect are criminals. Pistol free zones serve to give criminals the upper hand, as they know these areas are populated by unarmed, law abiding citizens. This makes for easy targets for criminals, if you will.

By infringing on citizen's 2nd Amendment rights(1), we have created mass murder empowerment zones much like the one that was exploited at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007. Pistol free zones clearly take away the power to defend your gift of life, one of the core rights we as human beings and Americans should have.

Everyone who possesses a concealed pistol license (CPL) has already undergone a comprehensive back ground check and taken the required pistol safety training course to meet the requirements set forth by the State Of Michigan (2) to obtain a CPL.

You may be interested to know that Michigan Gun Owners, a grass roots non-profit organization, is in support of abolishing pistol free zones. This issue has become a main focus for the organization, and they plan on passing around many petitions on this issue.

So again, I ask that you please consider repealing the laws that disarm law abiding, tax paying and voting citizens. My fellow CPL holders and I will be paying close attention to issues such as this one, when election time comes around. Please, do the right thing and protect our rights as citizens of Michigan.

Thank you for your time.

(your name and address here)

Please Support HB 4009 & HB 4010


(1) Second Amendment states: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




 Please consider the environment when printing email. Thank you!

[Dansjeep2000]

Just called Rep. Walsh's office and urged him to support this bill.

[rigges]

Well I signed the Petition

I am # 668
Wife is 699 at least that is what it said?????

Hmm something strange is going on wife gets signed up her # is 699 and then her name does not show in the # slot it said and some one else gets her # whats going on there???

Well I am getting ready to make calls and E-mails on this matter.

[james_joshua]

My Dad was #720.

[rigges]

I know that Kenneth Kurtz of District 58 is going to support the Bill HB 4009 that is what I was told by his secretary.

And I called John Walsh's office and left a message with his staff member.

[Dansjeep2000]

I hope more people will call there is still time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bronson]

Emails sent and petition signed (#727).

Bronson

[Dansjeep2000]

let's make a day to call them -- everyone on the same day. Here's the plan -- On Thur. January 20, 2011 call as many of these Reps as you can. If you can't call them all then be sure to call the Chair and Vice Chairs. Tell them you'd like them to support HB 4009, which is presently in front of the Judiciary Committee on which they sit. If you get tongue tied, consider saying this:




If it is YOUR Representative that you're calling BE SURE to tell them you are from their district and you'll be watching how they vote.

It was referred to the House Judiciary Committee. Here's a list of people on the committee so you can easily contact them:


Rep. John Walsh - 517.373.3920 - Chairman - Republican - District 19
Rep. Kurt Heise - 517.373.3816 - Majority Vice Chair - Republican - District 20
Rep. Jud Gilbert - 517.373.1790 - Republican - District 81
Rep. Ken Horn - 517.373.0837 - Republican - District 94
Rep. Paul Scott - 517.373.1780 - Republican - District 51
Rep. Kurt Damrow - 517.373.0476 - Republican - District 84 - THE MAN HAS A GUN ON HIS SHOULDER ON HIS WEBSITE!
Rep. Paul Muxlow - 517.373.0835 - Republican - District 83
Rep. Brad Jacobsen - No Phone Listed (Email on website) - Republican - District 46
Rep. Peter Pettalia - 517.373.0833 - Republican - District 106
Rep. Patrick Somerville - 517.373.0855 - Republican - District 23
Rep. Mark Meadows - 517.373.1786 - Minority Vice Chair - Democrat - District 69
Rep. Bob Constan - 517.373.0849 - Democrat - District 16
Rep. Stacy Oakes - 517.373.0152 - Democrat - District 95
Rep. Lisa Brown - 517.373.1799 - Democrat - District 39
Rep. Jeff Irwin - 517.373.2577 - Democrat - District 53
Rep. Phil Cavanagh - 517.373.0857 - Democrat - District 17
Rep. John Olumba - 517.373.0144 - Democrat - District 5



Please call, even if your representative isn't on the list. If you can call no one else, please call the Chairman. I've done the leg work for you. I hope you'll honor my work by taking the time to call on Thur. January 20, 2011. If you can't call on Thursday or you're reading this post after the 21st of January, please call them as soon as possible!
Please call

[sprinklerguy28]

Dear Sprinklerguy28,

Thank you for your email regarding House Bill 4009. Truly, this is a very important issue to our state your opinion is appreciated.

As a member of the NRA and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO), I am a strong supporter of gun rights and the 2nd amendment. I look forward to legislation such as House Bill 4009 being considered in the 96th Legislature. Furthermore, I am excited to sit on the Committee for Judiciary and fully examine this bill with fellow legislators. Although at this time I am still analyzing and studying this bill, I promise to keep your thoughts in mind if and when this piece of legislation comes before me on the House floor.

Due to the volume of not just "spam," but also of legitimate "mass e-mail" from activist groups and others, it would greatly accelerate our response if we know you live in Alpena, Alcona, Montmorency, Crawford, Oscoda, or Presque Isle counties and you provide your name and address. If your original message did not include your full home mailing address, and you would like a response to your comments, please reply to this message with your name, full address, and phone number, and we will respond as soon as we are able.

In addition, please be aware that legislative courtesy requires me to refer individuals from outside my legislative district to the appropriate Representative. If you are not a constituent of my district, you may find contact information for your Representative at:

http://www.house.mi.gov/find_a_rep.asp

Your State Senator can also be found at:

http://senate.michigan.gov/SenatorInfo/find-your-senator.htm

Thank you again for your communicating your concern. If you have any further comments or questions, please email or call my office at (517) 373-0833.

Sincerely,

Peter Pettalia
State Representative
106th District

[sprinklerguy28]

Mr. Sprinklerguy28,

Thank you for your email. I support elimination of the no-carry zones, and appreciate knowing your position on the matter as well.

Sincerely,

Kenneth B. Horn
State Representative
94th District

[sprinklerguy28]

Thank you for contacting my office regarding House Bill 4009 and House Bill 4010. While I support the rights of gun owners, I believe that our current law makes sufficient provision for those wishing to carry a concealed weapon.

I look forward to learning more about the issue and will consider changes to the concealed carry law that will be favorable to gun owners by eliminating onerous provisions within the law. I however cannot support House Bill 4009 or House Bill 4010 in their current form.

Sincerely,


Jeff Irwin




Representative Jeff Irwin
53rd District
State of Michigan

517-373-2577
http://053.housedems.com
JeffIrwin@house.mi.gov

[adam9er]

If this was to pass and take effect would the check box for the PFZ exemption be removed from the CPL or would it just be ignored.

[Divegeek]

Probably just ignored. The state uses old outdated forms all the time rather than print new ones. I just filled out the form to pay my sales tax for work and it still has the spaces for the service tax that killed a few years ago.

[Brian D]

Jeff Irwin Does not support it...


Thank you for contacting my office regarding House Bill 4009 and House Bill 4010. While I support the rights of gun owners, I believe that our current law makes sufficient provision for those wishing to carry a concealed weapon.



I look forward to learning more about the issue and will consider changes to the concealed carry law that will be favorable to gun owners by eliminating onerous provisions within the law. I however cannot support House Bill 4009 or House Bill 4010 in their current form.



Sincerely,





Jeff Irwin



edit. beat me to it.

[NRGMan13]

Jeff Irwin Does not support it...



edit. beat me to it.

Exactly the problem with most legislators. I don't give a #2 what "he" believes. He should be only concerned with what his constituents believe and want him support. We don't elect them to make our decisions for us. They are there to listen to what we want and decide what the majority desires.

[Al Lowe]

Exactly the problem with most legislators. I don't give a #2 what "he" believes. He should be only concerned with what his constituents believe and want him support. We don't elect them to make our decisions for us. They are there to listen to what we want and decide what the majority desires.Maybe, if there are more than a few us here, who are in Mr. Irwin's district, could let him know that WE support the bills, and would like him to do so as well. My problem is, Barb Byrum is my rep. I doubt it will do much good with her either, but I will give it a whirl. :)

[Brian D]

Maybe, if there are more than a few us here, who are in Mr. Irwin's district, could let him know that WE support the bills, and would like him to do so as well. My problem is, Barb Byrum is my rep. I doubt it will do much good with her either, but I will give it a whirl. :)

Well, his views and the attitude on guns are two of the deciding factors that I don' go to school and/or live in Ann Arbor.

[dazednconfused75]

Emailed and called Bob Constan who is my rep and is on the Judiciary Committee. No response. I have a distinct feeling that I already know how he feels about the issue though.

[mudvr1212]

Exactly the problem with most legislators. I don't give a #2 what "he" believes. He should be only concerned with what his constituents believe and want him support. We don't elect them to make our decisions for us. They are there to listen to what we want and decide what the majority desires.

Amen!!! Not many, if there are any, vote how "we the people" tell them to vote and that is a sad fact these days.:thdown:

[nascarkent]

I signed it. And sent it to my Friends.

[hendo]

Amen!!! Not many, if there are any, vote how "we the people" tell them to vote and that is a sad fact these days.:thdown:

They don't care what "we the people" think, because we the people pee and moan about their lack of consideration for our wishes,
yet we don't turn out en masse to campaign AGAINST their re-election, and at the same time let their opponents know that we will back them "This time" but if they show the same lack of consideration for our wishes they will meet the same fate when they face re-election.
Many people come up with lame excuses for not voting EVERY TIME, even though this right is every bit as important as our 2A right since it is the ONLY way to ensure that we do not lose our our 2A right. Until we stand up, and let them know with our ACTIONS, I'm sad to say, it will continue this way. Just my :twocents:

[NRGMan13]

Maybe, if there are more than a few us here, who are in Mr. Irwin's district, could let him know that WE support the bills, and would like him to do so as well. My problem is, Barb Byrum is my rep. I doubt it will do much good with her either, but I will give it a whirl. :)

Same here. I doubt that Barb will support this either. Worth the phone call though.

[bsf]

Now, Judiciary Committee members know that some firearms owners in MI are aware of 4009 & 4010. This includes those that may support this legislation, and those that will oppose it. I suspect that the anti-2A members may now be formulating strategies to derail this. If this legislation is to have a chance at passage without being gutted, I believe there will need to be far more support than shown already. Those who have been working on positive legislative reform for years have stated that all firearms owners need to be lobbyists. We also need to foster grass roots support. Every person who is aware of this legislation and supports it needs to enlist the assistance of at least 5 other people who have not yet expressed support. Just look at the online petition. Last time I checked, there were ~1k signatures. There are over 200k CPL holders in MI though. Read through bills. Understand how the legislature works. Talk to others. A very large, organized effort with a very consistent message will be needed IMO, and we are not anywhere near achieving that yet. Please commit to a sustained effort.

How does a Bill become a Law? (http://house.michigan.gov/How%20a%20Bill%20Becomes%20a%20Law.pdf)

How Committees Work (http://house.michigan.gov/committees_how.asp)

[appliancebrad]

I know that Kenneth Kurtz of District 58 is going to support the Bill HB 4009 that is what I was told by his secretary.

And I called John Walsh's office and left a message with his staff member.

Rep Kurtz has a CPL and dislikes the CEZ's an much as anyone :)

Senator Caswell, our guy in the upper house is 100% pro gun-pro carry.

[DEVIL DOG]

Received an E-MAIL from John Walsh this am. Said he didn't know when these bills would be coming up for a hearing. Didn't come right out and say he would support them, but after speaking to Doug Geiss the other day, he thought they will pass. Will see.

[bigdog2k7]

From Rep. Walsh:




Thank you for taking the time to contact me in regard to your support of House Bill 4009. I will be sure to note your support of this legislation. I would also encourage you to contact your state representative to indicate your support.



As you know, House Bill 4009 seeks to eliminate the premises on which a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon currently cannot carry. As a supporter of our 2nd amendment rights I am mindful of all legislation that comes before the Michigan House of Representatives which could affect these rights.



I will carefully review this legislation, and consider bringing it before the House Judiciary Committee for debate. Please note that the House Judiciary Committee was just empaneled and recently began orientation. The committee will be holding informational meetings over the course of the next few weeks and begin considering legislation in the near future. I would encourage you go to www.legislature.mi.gov to see when committee hearings are scheduled. Meeting agendas are also available on the website. The Judiciary Committee meets on Thursdays, at 10:30 a.m.

[Al Lowe]

I've still not received a reply from my rep, except for the automated reply. It will be interesting if she does, I'm sure. :)

[kevins_garage]

...all firearms owners need to be lobbyists.
I don't necessarily agree with that, as lobbyists are generally one person or a few people that work on behalf of a much larger group to provide a unified front/message at all times. I think we need some real leadership in this state to direct legislative efforts, not 1K, or 5K, or even 10K individual "armies of one" all rushing to send letters or make phone calls when someone starts a new thread on a gun forum. I'm not saying the letters and phone calls aren't important, but i believe they would have more effect after a "lobbyist" has already served up the idea to a rep or group and wants them to see just how many people they can motivate to show support.


We also need to foster grass roots support. Every person who is aware of this legislation and supports it needs to enlist the assistance of at least 5 other people who have not yet expressed support.
Again, what I think is needed is a more organized effort. I think it would be better to have 1 person or a few people per district collecting actual signatures from supporters, consolidating them and forwarding them with a letter to the rep of each district. This is what I envision as "grass roots" support...


Last time I checked, there were ~1k signatures. There are over 200k CPL holders in MI though.
Without a concerted effort, I personally doubt the total will exceed more than a few K legit signatures on an online petition. By legit, I don't mean names like Jack Mehoff or people that aren't residents of MI. Besides, what's to stop people from signing an online petition multiple times using multiple names? While it may be fun to participate in various online petitions, the sad reality is that many/most (all?) are pretty much worthless and it gives people the false impression that they are actually doing something productive with their time.

Just my 2 cents - hopefully there may be something of use in there...


Here's a message from Rep. Walsh's office - seems sort of canned, but not really sure:

Chairman Walsh is aware of House Bills 4009 and 4010. He intends on carefully reviewing the issue and will consider bringing it before the House Judiciary Committee for debate. Please be aware that Chairman Walsh is a strong supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights, and is mindful of all legislation relative to the subject.

The House Judiciary Committee was just empaneled and recently began orientation. The committee will be holding informational meetings over the course of the next few weeks and begin considering legislation in the near future. Committee meetings and agendas are posted online at www.legislature.mi.gov.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions/updates on this or any other issue.

[MP15TDriver]

Free Press indicates it was introduced today in the State Senate.

They also have a front page link to the story here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110125/NEWS06/110125034/1318/Michigan-bill-would-allow-guns-in-churches-bars

TIME TO TAKE THE POLL!

[bigdog2k7]

Free Press indicates it was introduced today in the State Senate.

They also have a front page link to the story here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110125/NEWS06/110125034/1318/Michigan-bill-would-allow-guns-in-churches-bars

TIME TO TAKE THE POLL!

Looks like many disagree, what most people don't understand, is that establishments can deny carrying on premises... They just wont get visited by as many law-abiding citizens.

[Roundballer]

Free Press indicates it was introduced today in the State Senate.

They also have a front page link to the story here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110125/NEWS06/110125034/1318/Michigan-bill-would-allow-guns-in-churches-bars

TIME TO TAKE THE POLL!
I had to go look things up, I am sure Tallbear will catch these sooner or later, But.... SB-0058 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28bygn1s555i3fjp4543ikiu55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2011-SB-0058) Elimination of PFZs

AND
SB-0059 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28bygn1s555i3fjp4543ikiu55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2011-SB-0059) Moving the CPL process to the SoS.

[[ion] C2]

http://www.freep.com/article/2011012...-churches-bars (http://www.freep.com/article/20110125/NEWS06/110125034/1318/Michigan-bill-would-allow-guns-in-churches-bars)

TIME TO TAKE THE POLL!


Poll should read:
"Should we allow citizens to defend themselves anywhere in the state?"

The way it's worded now makes it sound scary to the anti-gunners.

[james_joshua]

Free Press indicates it was introduced today in the State Senate.

They also have a front page link to the story here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110125/NEWS06/110125034/1318/Michigan-bill-would-allow-guns-in-churches-bars

TIME TO TAKE THE POLL!

Just so you know, you can vote multiple times. Just in case you want to proxy family/friends votes you could.

[Unistat76]

Just so you know, you can vote multiple times. Just in case you want to proxy family/friends votes you could.

Rigged or broken. I tried to vote twice :P and noticed that the "yes" and "no" buttons were flipped. Following a hunch, I made not of the numbers and voted again. My "yes" vote was counted as a "no" vote.

[45/70fan]

I noticed that too:
Free press poll:
\The way the results are showing I'm wondering if they aren't reversed. Vote yes and it registers as a no.
Poll:

Should concealed weapons be allowed in churches, arenas and bars? Order of questions
No
Yes
Other:


order of results:

Yes 44.79% (2,174 votes)

No 53.73% (2,608 votes)

Other: 1.48% (72 votes)

Notice how the answers don't correspond to the order question:deal2:

[Al Lowe]

You have to reload the page. If that doesn't work, just choose the top option.

[indianajones]

emails sent. Rep. Haines, Sen. Robertson, and Gov. Snyder.

[anthonyt]

Sent the following today...

Message Content:
Subject: HB 4009 and 4010 of 2011

I would like to take a moment to STRONGLY urge your support of both of these bills. I am a registered voter in your district and I actively vote.
Laws should not infringe on a citizens rights and these two bills would correct an existing injustice contained in Michigans current laws. Please do whatever you can to support these bills.

[DEVIL DOG]

I had to go look things up, I am sure Tallbear will catch these sooner or later, But.... SB-0058 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28bygn1s555i3fjp4543ikiu55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2011-SB-0058) Elimination of PFZs

AND
SB-0059 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28bygn1s555i3fjp4543ikiu55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2011-SB-0059) Moving the CPL process to the SoS.
SB0058 SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. BUT IF YOU READ SB0059 ALL OF THE SAME BS IS STILL IN THERE. GUESS IF 58 GETS PASSED 59 WOULD BE NULL AS FAR AS PFZ'S GOES.

[Al Lowe]

SB0058 SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. BUT IF YOU READ SB0059 ALL OF THE SAME BS IS STILL IN THERE. GUESS IF 58 GETS PASSED 59 WOULD BE NULL AS FAR AS PFZ'S GOES.The bills generally show the area(s) of the law that would be changed by the individual bills. SB-0059 changes who would issue the CPL, not the PFZs, so that part is not changed in the bill. SB-0058 eliminates the PFZs, and does not affect who issues the CPL. In both instances, neither bill affects what the other is changing. So those changes will not appear until they happen.

[Dansjeep2000]

We need to keep working on this. I posted it on a small offroad forum that i'm on from time to time and look at the result.

http://wegotmud.com/forum/index.php?topic=61410.0

[Al Lowe]

We need to keep working on this. I posted it on a small offroad forum that i'm on from time to time and look at the result.

http://wegotmud.com/forum/index.php?topic=61410.0Well, that's nice, (I suppose) but I don't do off road, so there's no reason for me to register, just so I can see the results of your post. But I do hope it was good. :)

[Dansjeep2000]

Well, that's nice, (I suppose) but I don't do off road, so there's no reason for me to register, just so I can see the results of your post. But I do hope it was good. :)
Sorry I didn't realize you had to be logged in to see it. There are 20-30 guys who signed it on that one little site.

[Al Lowe]

Sorry I didn't realize you had to be logged in to see it. There are 20-30 guys who signed it on that one little site.It happens. But, Great work there! Every bit helps.

[indianajones]

From Gail haines.

Thank you for your email. I appreciate you taking the time to contact me.

As you know, I am a supporter of our 2nd amendment rights. I am a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and received an A- ranking and an endorsement from them this past year. I was also endorsed by the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO). With that said, I do care about the safety of our citizens and children. House Bill 4009 and House Bill 4010 are currently in the Michigan House of Representative Judiciary Committee, which I am not a member of. I will be sure to take your thoughts in to consideration should House Bill 4009 or House Bill 4010 come before me for a vote in the full Michigan House of Representatives.

Again, thank you for your correspondence. Please do not hesitate to contact me with any future comments, questions or concerns for state government.

Sincerely,

Gail Haines
State Representatives
43rd District

and a reply from Senator Robertson

wanted me to thank you for your civil-mindedness and your interest in public policy. He also wanted me to inform you that he is in complete agreement with you on this issue. Senator Robertson is a co-sponsor of Senate Bill 58 and 59 which is equivalent to HB 4009 AND 4010.

Senator Robertson is an enthusiastic supporter of gun rights and the second amendment. He is a member of the NRA, the MCRGO, and the Shooters Alliance. Dave is very glad to have constituents, like yourself, active in maintaining our constitutional rights. Please feel free to contact us again on any matters.

Sincerely,
Aaron K. Groh
Legislative Assistant
State Senator Dave Robertson

also signed the petetion and fired off an email to governor.

[scrapinby]

I just got a response from my state rep. I'm pretty sure between the lines it says "pound sand"

Dear scrapinby,

Thank you for getting in touch with my office. I am always happy to hear from engaged constituents.



I will certainly take your thoughts into consideration as I consider Representative LeBlanc's bills. They have been referred to the House Judiciary Committee where they will be taken up at the discretion of Committee Chair John Walsh. You can track the bills' progress online at www.legislature.mi.gov.



Thank you again for your e-mail, and please feel free to contact my office with any other concerns.



Sincerely,





Joan Bauer
State Representative
District 68- Lansing
517-373-0826

[bsf]

I just got a response from my state rep. I'm pretty sure between the lines it says "pound sand"

Dear scrapinby,

Thank you for getting in touch with my office. I am always happy to hear from engaged constituents.



I will certainly take your thoughts into consideration as I consider Representative LeBlanc's bills. They have been referred to the House Judiciary Committee where they will be taken up at the discretion of Committee Chair John Walsh. You can track the bills' progress online at www.legislature.mi.gov.



Thank you again for your e-mail, and please feel free to contact my office with any other concerns.



Sincerely,





Joan Bauer
State Representative
District 68- Lansing
517-373-0826
That might be a tough nut to crack. There is time though. It is very early in the legislative session, and the House Judiciary Committee has only just had its second meeting: basically just more orientation. AFAIK there is no timetable for scheduling committee hearings on 4009 & 4010. In addition, I am aware of no commitment by Walsh, the House Judiciary Chair to schedule a hearing at all. I think the budget will be given priority over this issue. Understand, Walsh is the one who will determine if and when there will be committee hearings on HB 4009 & 4010. If you want to work on Bauer, understand that she is, based on my experience, quite approachable. Consider actually calling her; requesting an individual meeting; or attending one of her monthly breakfast sessions should she resume them. She cannot set the Judiciary Committee schedule and agenda, but you can begin building a relationship with her in the hope that she will consider your opinion should this legislation actually make it to the full House for a vote.

[Dansjeep2000]

We need to keep calling, writing, and getting people to sign the petition. Eveyone should have it in their sig line like mine as well. Fight for it!!!

[race4fun]

I received this response today from my Senator.


Dear Mr. Race4fun,



Thank you for the email. Senator Hune supports legislation to lift Michigan’s gun free zones. If we can be of further assistance to you in the future feel free to email or call toll free at 855-Joe-Hune.



Sincerely,





Troy Tuggle

Chief of Staff

Senator Joe Hune

[daj86]

Just sent the following to my Representative will be sending similar e mails to the rest of the judiciary committee.


The Honorable Representative John Walsh,



I am writing to encourage you to support HB 4009 & HB 4010 which would eliminate the pistol free zones for conceald pistol license (CPL) holders. CPL holders are among society's most law abiding and responsible citizens and are subjected to a comprehensive background check and a State mandated pistol training course.



Laws are only followed by law aiding citizens. Therefore, having restrictions for the law abiding on where they may excercise their right to self defense only gives the criminal an upper hand and thus creates "empowerment zones" for the criminal whom by definition does not follow the law and does not subject himself to it.



I encourage you to support these bills in order to expand the rights of law abiding CPL holders and put and end to "Criminal Empowerment Zones" hence giving the law abiding a right to defend themselves and not be potential victims of criminal aggression.



Thank you for your time.

[Al Lowe]

That might be a tough nut to crack. There is time though. It is very early in the legislative session, and the House Judiciary Committee has only just had its second meeting: basically just more orientation. AFAIK there is no timetable for scheduling committee hearings on 4009 & 4010. In addition, I am aware of no commitment by Walsh, the House Judiciary Chair to schedule a hearing at all. I think the budget will be given priority over this issue. Understand, Walsh is the one who will determine if and when there will be committee hearings on HB 4009 & 4010. If you want to work on Bauer, understand that she is, based on my experience, quite approachable. Consider actually calling her; requesting an individual meeting; or attending one of her monthly breakfast sessions should she resume them. She cannot set the Judiciary Committee schedule and agenda, but you can begin building a relationship with her in the hope that she will consider your opinion should this legislation actually make it to the full House for a vote.At least you got an answer. I emailed my rep, Barb Byrum, and haven't gotten an answer yet.

[JPS]

I sent an e-mail to my Representative, Al Pscholka, 79t District and he sent me a typed letter saying that he will take my thoughts into consideration. On the bottom of the letter, he hand wrote a note saying he supports my position.
It looks like we can count on Al.
Jeff Shipe
Saint Joseph, MI

[anthonyt]

I received a response from Senator Anderson which stated that though he was supportive of gun rights he would not vote for the bills because he was fearful that the "ability to carry in these areas would present an increased risk to the public." I responded with the following reply:

Mr. Hendrickson:

If you would be so kind as to convey my appreciation to Senator Anderson, for his honest reply. However, I would like to take a moment to point out to Senator Anderson, that as the law is currently written, those who possess a valid CPL are NOT prohibited from carrying a firearm in a pistol free zone as outlined in the current law, but simply that we cannot conceal the pistol. For the senators information I have pasted the following excerpts of the law (emphasis added where bolded):

MCL 750.234d
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

Take special notice to Subsection 2(c) which exempts CPL holders from these restrictions.

A CPL holder is ONLY prohibited from concealing their pistols in the pistol free zones enumerated in the concealed pistol law, MCL 28.425o which states:

MCL 28.425o
28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.
(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
(3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.
(b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.
(c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the professional investigator licensure act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.
(d) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.
(e) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.
(f) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a member of a sheriff's posse.
(g) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is an auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.
(h) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.
(i) A state court judge or state court retired judge who is licensed under this act. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a state court retired judge to obtain and carry a letter from the judicial tenure commission stating that the state court retired judge is in good standing as authorized under section 30 of article VI of the state constitution of 1963, and rules promulgated under that section, in order to qualify under this subdivision.
(5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
(b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
(c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

As you can see sir, it IS currently legal for a person who possesses a valid CPL to carry a pistol in these locations. There are no other laws which restrict a CPL holder, except for Federal Law, which does not apply to these locations. I believe that it is very important for our elected officials to have a complete understanding of the laws they vote upon; anything less would be negligence. Negligence, is something that I think that we cannot tolerate in those we elect to represent the peoples will.

I would like to point out that since this law has existed in it's current incarnation, that there have not been any incidence of mass blood shed at the hand of a law abiding CPL holder in any of the institutions listed. No gun fights have erupted in the hallowed halls of education without our fine state, nor within any of the institutions deliniated in MCL 28.425o. So, it would seem that Senator Andersons fear, though understandable, is misplaced.

I vote religiously, sir. As do many of my friends and family. We are all watching this piece of legislation closely. Again, thank you for you time.

[firefox]

has there been an online petition created for the expanded preemption bill as well?

[SteakNEggs]

However, I would like to take a moment to point out to Senator Anderson, that as the law is currently written, those who possess a valid CPL are NOT prohibited from carrying a firearm in a pistol free zone as outlined in the current law, but simply that we cannot conceal the pistol.

Hello, first time poster. Been lurking for a while.

This is something I wanted to ask about since I can't seem to get local media to understand this position. They write their articles as "previously banned" and this is just not true and not only creates the wrong perception, it is a blatantly wrong.

It seems maybe bias is involved with NOT writing the correct information, even after emailing the reporter to point out, in a nice way, their errors.

What else can we do to get the information above to the masses? As it stands right now, no one around me is writing it truthfully.

[anthonyt]

Hello, first time poster. Been lurking for a while.

This is something I wanted to ask about since I can't seem to get local media to understand this position. They write their articles as "previously banned" and this is just not true and not only creates the wrong perception, it is a blatantly wrong.

It seems maybe bias is involved with NOT writing the correct information, even after emailing the reporter to point out, in a nice way, their errors.

What else can we do to get the information above to the masses? As it stands right now, no one around me is writing it truthfully.

I take almost every opportunity to post pro-gun stuff on social media sights like FB. And since I have a few friends on FB who also carry, every once in a while we'll have a "discussion" that tends to educate the GP.

[bsf]

The CPL PFZ elimination legislation will be discussed on Off the Record Friday (http://video.wkar.org/program/1476408288/), February 11. Senator Mike Green, sponsor of SB 57 & 58, the Senate versions of HB 4010 and 4009 respectively, will be the guest. The program should be available online ~noon Friday, and should be televised two or three times over the weekend. Check your local PBS station for television listings.

[tom-n8ies]

The CPL PFZ elimination legislation will be discussed on Off the Record Friday (http://video.wkar.org/program/1476408288/), February 11. Senator Mike Green, sponsor of SB 57 & 58, the Senate versions of HB 4010 and 4009 respectively, will be the guest. The program should be available online ~noon Friday, and should be televised two or three times over the weekend. Check your local PBS station for television listings.


Please someone post what channels this will be on or better yet upload a podcast or video to you tube. (never mind I mashed on the link above and it can be watched there)

I heard Senator Mike Green on WJR's Mitch Album show week before last and Mitch Beat him up prety bad and mike did not tell him people with CPL's can already carry in PFZ's so I emailed both Mike and Mitch.

Here is what I wrote:

"Hi MIke heard you on WJR just now and thought you should have told Mitch that people with CPL's can already carry openly in the pistol free areas mentioned, we just want to be allowed to carry concealed in those places.


Thanks for going to bat for CPL holders. "

I did get a response that this would be passed on to Senator Green.

t

[bsf]

Please someone post what channels this will be on or better yet upload a podcast or video to you tube……….
????? As I stated, it will be available for viewing online after ~1200 Friday. I provided a link.

[DEVIL DOG]

????? As I stated, it will be available for viewing online after ~1200 Friday. I provided a link.
PBS--CHANNEL 56 DETROIT--11:30 am--SUNDAY 02/13

[45/70fan]

????? As I stated, it will be available for viewing online after ~1200 Friday. I provided a link.

Don't bet on it, he may but it hasn't been established yet.

[Al Lowe]

Don't bet on it, he may but it hasn't been established yet.It hasn't aired yet. This coming Friday is the day, I believe.

[EricF517]

Dear Mr. F:

Thanks for clarifying what you wanted by sending this office a copy of the form letter you sent to the Attorney General's office requesting an Attorney General opinion.

Rep. Denby is a strong supporter of Second Amendment rights and would support legislation removing gun-free zones.

Sincerely,

Sue Dolato
Legislation and Policy



Office of
Cindy Denby
State Representative
47th District

517-373-8835
Toll free: 866-828-4863
cindydenby@house.mi.gov

[Al Lowe]

Would you believe, I've still not heard a word from my rep, Barb Byrum. :(

[bsf]

Everything I have heard so far points to these bills being scheduled for committee hearings “later” in the year, if at all. Governor Snyder had made it perfectly clear the budget is Priority 1, 2, and 3, and I do not necessarily disagree. The situation is very bad. IMO, that does not mean we do nothing now concerning concealed pistol license (CPL), pistol free zone (PFZ) elimination. Take the time to actually read the bills. Familiarize yourself with the process, at least as far as it reads on paper.

How does a Bill become a Law? (http://house.michigan.gov/How%20a%20Bill%20Becomes%20a%20Law.pdf)

How Committees Work (http://house.michigan.gov/committees_how.asp)

The relevant bills this session for PFZ CPL elimination are SB 57 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-SB-0057), SB 58 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-SB-0058), HB 4009 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4009), and HB 4010 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4010). SB stands for Senate Bill. HB stands for House Bill. In this case, SB 57 and HB 4010 are identical; same for SB 58 and HB 4009. When you read the bills, understand text to be added to Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL) is in bold, and text to be eliminated is struck through. Essentially, SB 58 and HB 4009 would repeal MCL 28.425o ( http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o), “Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.” SB 57 and HB 4010 would remove text from MCL that lists and classifies the felony specified in MCL 28.425o for carrying concealed in a PFZ.

The PFZ list in 28.425o contains the following.


A school or school property….
A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
A sports arena or stadium.
A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises……
Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
A hospital.
A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.


Notice that casinos are not included. Casinos are a PFZ, but the text addressing them is found elsewhere in MCL. They are not addressed by this legislation. Private property could still be posted as weapon/gun/pistol/firearm free zones, with a penalty of trespass. Furthermore, this proposed legislation does not repeal the prohibition of general firearm possession by non-CPL holders in the locations specified in MCL 750.234d ( http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-234d), “Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.” This is an entirely different firearm free zone list that existed prior to MI becoming “shall issue” for CPL’s in July 2001. This list would remain under the proposed legislation. It does not apply to CPL holders, though. This list contains the following locations.


A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
A church or other house of religious worship.
A court.
A theatre.
A sports arena.
A day care center.
A hospital.
An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


Please consider this very important fact. 28.425o, which creates the CPL PFZ’s, only applies to concealed carry of a pistol. The exact text is this: “shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises…..” It does not prohibit the open carry of firearms in those locations by those who possess a CPL. Some people are using this information in their arguments for elimination of the CPL PFZ’s.

Finally, ponder these statistics. Michigan has an estimated population of ~10 million, but only ~250000 (1/4 million) CPL holders. CPL holders are a minority. Most of the MI population does not understand this issue well. You, the person reading this post may or may not be all that familiar with concealed carry, concealed pistol licensing, or the issue of PFZ’s. Education and recruitment of new “political activists” will be necessary if this legislation is to become law. If you have any concerns about the wisdom of this proposed legislation, feel free to contact me through this forum. I would love to discuss the issue in detail with you. If you understand and support the legislation, please reach out to others in an attempt to enlist their support. There is no major effort currently organized by any of the major pro-RKBA groups to move this legislation forward as it is still early. Until then though, we can lay the groundwork for a powerful movement of support by educating ourselves and others. Thanks.

[45/70fan]

Everything I have heard so far points to these bills being scheduled for committee hearings “later” in the year, if at all. Governor Snyder had made it perfectly clear the budget is Priority 1, 2, and 3, and I do not necessarily disagree. The situation is very bad. IMO, that does not mean we do nothing now concerning concealed pistol license (CPL), pistol free zone (PFZ) elimination. Take the time to actually read the bills. Familiarize yourself with the process, at least as far as it reads on paper.

How does a Bill become a Law? (http://house.michigan.gov/How%20a%20Bill%20Becomes%20a%20Law.pdf)

How Committees Work (http://house.michigan.gov/committees_how.asp)

The relevant bills this session for PFZ CPL elimination are SB 57 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-SB-0057), SB 58 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-SB-0058), HB 4009 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4009), and HB 4010 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4010). SB stands for Senate Bill. HB stands for House Bill. In this case, SB 57 and HB 4010 are identical; same for SB 58 and HB 4009. When you read the bills, understand text to be added to Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL) is in bold, and text to be eliminated is struck through. Essentially, SB 58 and HB 4009 would repeal MCL 28.425o (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o), “Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.” SB 57 and HB 4010 would remove text from MCL that lists and classifies the felony specified in MCL 28.425o for carrying concealed in a PFZ.

The PFZ list in 28.425o contains the following.

A school or school property….
A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
A sports arena or stadium.
A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises……
Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
A hospital.
A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
Notice that casinos are not included. Casinos are a PFZ, but the text addressing them is found elsewhere in MCL. They are not addressed by this legislation. Private property could still be posted as weapon/gun/pistol/firearm free zones, with a penalty of trespass. Furthermore, this proposed legislation does not repeal the prohibition of general firearm possession by non-CPL holders in the locations specified in MCL 750.234d (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(25slni30ehvzmsya2dscxuya))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-234d), “Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.” This is an entirely different firearm free zone list that existed prior to MI becoming “shall issue” for CPL’s in July 2001. This list would remain under the proposed legislation. It does not apply to CPL holders, though. This list contains the following locations.

A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
A church or other house of religious worship.
A court.
A theatre.
A sports arena.
A day care center.
A hospital.
An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
Please consider this very important fact. 28.425o, which creates the CPL PFZ’s, only applies to concealed carry of a pistol. The exact text is this: “shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises…..” It does not prohibit the open carry of firearms in those locations by those who possess a CPL. Some people are using this information in their arguments for elimination of the CPL PFZ’s.

Finally, ponder these statistics. Michigan has an estimated population of ~10 million, but only ~250000 (1/4 million) CPL holders. CPL holders are a minority. Most of the MI population does not understand this issue well. You, the person reading this post may or may not be all that familiar with concealed carry, concealed pistol licensing, or the issue of PFZ’s. Education and recruitment of new “political activists” will be necessary if this legislation is to become law. If you have any concerns about the wisdom of this proposed legislation, feel free to contact me through this forum. I would love to discuss the issue in detail with you. If you understand and support the legislation, please reach out to others in an attempt to enlist their support. There is no major effort currently organized by any of the major pro-RKBA groups to move this legislation forward as it is still early. Until then though, we can lay the groundwork for a powerful movement of support by educating ourselves and others. Thanks.

Good posting BSF

[DEVIL DOG]

Please someone post what channels this will be on or better yet upload a podcast or video to you tube. (never mind I mashed on the link above and it can be watched there)

I heard Senator Mike Green on WJR's Mitch Album show week before last and Mitch Beat him up prety bad and mike did not tell him people with CPL's can already carry in PFZ's so I emailed both Mike and Mitch.

Here is what I wrote:

"Hi MIke heard you on WJR just now and thought you should have told Mitch that people with CPL's can already carry openly in the pistol free areas mentioned, we just want to be allowed to carry concealed in those places.


Thanks for going to bat for CPL holders. "

I did get a response that this would be passed on to Senator Green.

t
I watched this Sun am. and Green was not on the show. Did I miss something here?

[bsf]

I watched this Sun am. and Green was not on the show. Did I miss something here?
No, you did not miss anything. The host indicated the previous week Sen. Green would be the guest, but it obviously did not happen. I was disappointed. I very much wanted to hear Green field questions on the legislation, because some of what I have heard him say on radio has confused me.

[DEVIL DOG]

Any one have Sen. Green's #? Maybe give his office a call & see what happened.

[sweatyspartan]

sent my feelings on this along to my rep the other day....hope everyone can do the same

[wmfarnum]

Last night, Sunday the 13th, NBC local news WEYID, aired a clip, I did not watch it in anger I turned it off after seeing the pro-mo expressing concerns over the bill saying "should guns be in our schools and churches" and showing a table full of assault type weapons I figured watching it was a wast of time.

[wmfarnum]

Last night, Sunday the 13th, NBC local news WEYID, aired a clip, I did not watch it in anger I turned it off after seeing the pro-mo expressing concerns over the bill saying "should guns be in our schools and churches" and showing a table full of assault type weapons I figured watching it was a wast of time.

[Al Lowe]

I FINALLY got a reply from my rep.


Dear Al,

Thank you for contacting me about House Bill 4009-4010.

Please know, I am an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Personally, I own numerous firearms and haev a concealed pistol license. I am always interested in legislation that promotes protecting our Constitutional right of gun ownership.

These bills have been referred to the Judiciary Committee. To check the status of this legislation please visit: http://www.legislature.mi.gov (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/).

I will take your thoughts into account if presented with the opportunity to vote on this legislation.

Again, thank you for contacting me. Please feel free to contact me if I may ever be of assistance.

Sincerely,




State Representative Barb Byrum
House District 67

[Pistol Teacher]

These bills will be heard in committe possibly in July 2011,[edit] no date set yet. The State Budget is of concern at this moment. From Rep. LeBlanc's Office.

[XDM 40 cal]

These bills will be heard in committee possibly in July 2012, no date set yet. The State Budget is of concern at this moment. From Rep. LeBlanc's Office.

As to be expedited, with the state in money crunch...Try to make money from a broken state is kinda hard...:sad:

[Al Lowe]

These bills will be heard in committe possibly in July 2012, no date set yet. The State Budget is of concern at this moment. From Rep. LeBlanc's Office.They want the news cycle to change before it gets there. That's why they're putting it off.

[Pistol Teacher]

They want the news cycle to change before it gets there. That's why they're putting it off.

You are probaly correct but they have a budget nightmare.

[Al Lowe]

You are probaly correct but they have a budget nightmare.They've had a budget nightmare for most of the previous 8 years and never did a thing about it. What else is new?

[donald150]

Fox news just reported that Arizona Senate just past a bill like this one. It still has to pass the house.

[rigges]

Buckeye is looking for help on there attempt to loosen up there gun free zones

Quote:from Buckeye
We urgently need info about your state ccw laws ...

Dear Rigges,

We're trying to fix our CCW laws here in Ohio so citizens can carry in restaurants. And we urgently need information about the laws in other states. Can you help us?

Time is short. We need this information IMMEDIATELY.

Please send us your state's code/law that answers the following questions:

Are CCW / CHL / CWL license holders permitted to carry into places that serve alcohol for consumption on premises (restaurants) in your state?



Does the law make any distinction between restaurants and bars?



May license holders consume while carrying in your state?



What are the penalties if a license holder breaks the above laws?

NOTE: WE NEED THE ACTUAL STATE CODE, NOT EXPLANATIONS OR INTERPRETATIONS. IT MUST BE THE ACTUAL WORDING OF THE LAW.

If you can find the legal code to answer the above questions, email the citations word-for-word with the reference numbers to info@buckeyefirearms.org. In the subject line of your email, type the full name of your state and nothing else. So if you're from Nevada, your subject line would just say NEVADA.

Please don't send anything but what we've asked above. We're in hearings right now and don't have time to sort through comments and questions.

Thank you for coming to our aid at a crucial moment.

Jim Irvine
Chairman, Buckeye Firearms Association

End Quote/


[][][]

[bsf]

These bills will be heard in committe possibly in July 2012, no date set yet. The State Budget is of concern at this moment. From Rep. LeBlanc's Office.
I have consistently been hearing last half of the 2011-2012 Session for the House Judiciary Committee. I have not been in contact with anyone concerning the Senate versions yet. This is the first I have heard of either chambers not taking it up at all this session, though.

[Pistol Teacher]

I talked to a aid in Richard LeBlanc's office as he returned a voicemail message regarding these bills. The aid talked to the office of chairperson of the Committee on Judiciary on these bills. The Chairperson office responded to him with info. The reply was budget will take up the first part of the year and then these bills would be heard in committee. There were assurances they would be heard. When I pressed him he stated possible July of this year but no date has been set yet. That was from the office of Richard LeBlanc.

[bsf]

I talked to a aid in Richard LeBlanc's office as he returned a voicemail message regarding these bills. The aid talked to the office of chairperson of the Committee on Judiciary on these bills. The Chairperson office responded to him with info. The reply was budget will take up the first part of the year and then these bills would be heard in committee. There were assurances they would be heard. When I pressed him he stated possible July of this year but no date has been set yet. That was from the office of Richard LeBlanc.
You are off by one calendar year. Re-read your post and correct it.

[Pistol Teacher]

You are off by one calendar year. Re-read your post and correct it.
Opps Wondered what you talking about. corrected.

[SIGkzoo]

I would love to know who/when/how to contact to voice my support for this bill, especially now with HB 4438 & 4439. I hope from the bottom of my heart that one day, we can make this happen. Michigan needs to be a 2A leader!

[anthonyt]

I would love to know who/when/how to contact to voice my support for this bill, especially now with HB 4438 & 4439. I hope from the bottom of my heart that one day, we can make this happen. Michigan needs to be a 2A leader!

http://www.house.michigan.gov/find_a_rep.asp <=== Click here and scroll down to the "Find a Representative" form, and enter your Zip... It will tell you who your Rep is. Email your Rep.

[Leader]

I would love to know who/when/how to contact to voice my support for this bill, especially now with HB 4438 & 4439. I hope from the bottom of my heart that one day, we can make this happen. Michigan needs to be a 2A leader!

This would only make MI a follower.
Many other states either don't have or have less restrictive PFZ's then MI.
They don't seem to have problems with shootings in theaters, bars, or even libraries.

[SIGkzoo]

Yes, I'm aware that some other states are ahead of us in this, but none-the-less this would be a step backwards, and Michigan needs to step up and be one of the 2A leaders. I hope this one loses out and the repeal of PFZs gets voted in.

[rigges]

Yes, I'm aware that some other states are ahead of us in this, but none-the-less this would be a step backwards, and Michigan needs to step up and be one of the 2A leaders. I hope this one loses out and the repeal of PFZs gets voted in.

WUT????? You are very Confusing or you do not know what you are talking about.

What Do you mean 2A leader?? speak English not this new form of hieroglyphics????

Also what is it you want to lose out you say "this one" do you mean this one, this topic we are in and are talking about??? As you statement is very confusing and Negative for the future of MI gun rights. these are part of what is going to eliminate PFZ.

I do not know but you either need to clarify or some thing.

[malignity]

WUT????? You are very Confusing or you do not know what you are talking about.

What Do you mean 2A leader?? speak English not this new form of hieroglyphics????

Also what is it you want to lose out you say "this one" do you mean this one, this topic we are in and are talking about??? As you statement is very confusing and Negative for the future of MI gun rights. these are part of what is going to eliminate PFZ.

I do not know but you either need to clarify or some thing.

I'm thinking he got his topics confused. There's ALSO a bill to add libraries to the PFZ list. He likely posted in the wrong thread.

[SIGkzoo]

My apologies if I confused anyone, I will try to be more clear.

When I said "this would be a step backwards" and I was responding to the reply (post 156) to my prior comment about House Bills 4438 & 4439 to add public libraries to the PFZ law.

Where I said "I hope this one loses out and the repeal of PFZs gets voted in." I meant the addition of libraries to the PFZs should lose out, and this bill 4009 to eliminate all PFZs would be a great step forward for us.

P.S. Rigges, there is no need to be condescending. The abbreviation 2A is hardly hieroglyphics. It's a common acronym that means "2nd Ammendment". I would like to see Michigan be a leader in preserving our 2A rights.

I understand that my post wasn't worded very well, but if you re-read the sequence of posts on this page, starting at post 154, I think it gives some indication of what I was referring to.

I hope this clears it up, and again I am truly sorry that my post was confusing and unclear.

[rigges]

P.S. Rigges, there is no need to be condescending. The abbreviation 2A is hardly hieroglyphics. It's a common acronym that means "2nd Ammendment". I would like to see Michigan be a leader in preserving our 2A rights.


OMG DUrrr du duuurrrr hur My bad I should have seen that one SOrry

I do hate these LOLs LMAO OMG and 2A things though.

SO any way I am now Laughing out loud and Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off at my self at not seeing the Second Amendment Oh My God

Just an old man that has a few of the acronins down like
Laser = Light Amplification Stimulation Emission of Radiation
SNAFU = Situation Normal All Fouled Up

ETC: = et cetera, a Latin expression meaning "and other things" or "and so on"

So My Bad.

./././. :bigun2: :scramble: :freak:

[SIGkzoo]

It's all good buddy, I'm glad we were able to clear the air.

:pistols: :bounce: :bigun2:
"What is this thing? It won't die!"

[DanM]

Just an old man that has a few of the acronins down like
Laser = Light Amplification Stimulation Emission of Radiation


Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. You have the acronym close, but you don't have it down.

Another old-school acronym I'll test you with, for make-up points: RADAR.

What is it? You have to get it down, not close. :)

[rigges]

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. You have the acronym close, but you don't have it down.

Another old-school acronym I'll test you with, for make-up points: RADAR.

What is it? You have to get it down, not close. :)


Hmm very Interesting but it is:
RADAR = RAdio Detection And Ranging

Was Odd that they would use the first 2 letters of the first word then only the first letters of each word there after but hey that is the English for you.

:rofl:

I was not off on Laser that one is Dead on (ooops I guess I did leave out the BY)
Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

Per the Bell Labs denotation of it.

The first person ever to use a laser before the name ever being denoted was thought to be Nikola Tesla. Bell labs rediscovered the Laser along with the Maser a in and around 1957

Albert Einstein wrote a paper on its theoretical in 1917

In 1967 My brother built a Ruby laser for a science fair from a small shard of a bell labs ruby it was extremely low power but could cause paper to burn after and extended period of time in the beam.

OH well back to the grind I surly hope this gets in to a vote soon and passes before I am actually having to carry my Laser pistol counseled in the PFZ :plasmagu:

OH BTW the Laser was at one time called an optical maser then later changed to LASER

[MP15TDriver]

Boy, this article sure seems on point and supports the elimination of gun-free zones at college campuses:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/08/opponents-gun-free-zones-universities-unlikely-hero-nevada-woman/

[BWHaas]

Boy, this article sure seems on point and supports the elimination of gun-free zones at college campuses:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/08/opponents-gun-free-zones-universities-unlikely-hero-nevada-woman/
Great article. We need more victims of violent crimes on campus to step up and show their support for the cause. Not exactly an easy thing to do, but every person that steps forward could save thousands over a long period of time. Maybe more.

[EcksFactor]

Saw this a few months ago and emailed my support to Senator Green.

[tcb]

I'm glad you have this posted up. I had a friend tell me this was law and they just didn't notify any CPL holders. I will have to let them know.

[SteakNEggs]

I'm glad you have this posted up. I had a friend tell me this was law and they just didn't notify any CPL holders. I will have to let them know.

What is law?

[hendo]

What is law?

It's something the "gubbament" uses to try to take away your rights :gavel:

[[ion] C2]

So... we should really push for this. Stupid location limitations..

[DEVIL DOG]

So now that Snyder has his budget, I wonder if the folks in Lansing will find time to address this. Would be nice to see some action on this.

[appliancebrad]

Talked with my Rep last Friday. Word is that the Gov has a bunch of stuff he wants to push. Gun rights is not on his short list. Probalby no action until fall on any gun bills.

[DEVIL DOG]

I don't agree with eveything Snyder wants, but they could use that to our advantage. I think the bills as of now are still in the Judiciary Committee. Been sitting there since Jan.
I have an E-Mail out to Rep. Geiss, waiting for him to reply.

[Unistat76]

Talked with my Rep last Friday. Word is that the Gov has a bunch of stuff he wants to push. Gun rights is not on his short list. Probalby no action until fall on any gun bills.

To be honest with you, I probably agree. I'm super pro-2A, but we are in pretty good shape on that front. Not that I don't want to see this and other legislation go through, but this state has got bigger problems for the time being.

I can be a little patient while some economic stuff gets worked out. But not TOO patient.

[stainless1911]

We are being blown off folks. Other states have problems, and are still making progress with thier rights.

I spoke to my rep as well, she's pro gun, and didnt give any interest to the issue.

[Quaamik]

We are being blown off folks. Other states have problems, and are still making progress with thier rights.
...........

Michigan is in a unique place.

---We are the only state to have lost population, which affected the re-districting we had to do.
---Our budget was being pushed through early, for the first itme in memory.
---Our economy is still poor and needs attention.
---The Govenor and reps are in a fight with the teachers and public unions.
---The Govenor and several reps are being attacked with recall petitions.
---The "Emergancy manager" law is being attacked and the Govenor (as well as reps) are having to defend it.
---The Detroit School Board is making a publc relations issue out of having been suplemened by an emergancy manager, even though they have prooved they can't manage the district.

In short, the state has bigger fish to fry. If we keep pushing, with letters, phone calls and visits, they will eventually push gun bills out of ommittee.

[stainless1911]

We have had infringements on our rights much much longer than any of those problems. We gave them a job to do, I expect them to get it done.

[DEVIL DOG]

We have had infringements on our rights much much longer than any of those problems. We gave them a job to do, I expect them to get it done.
HEAR, HEAR ! Ohio, Wisconsin, Fla., etc. have big problems too & yet they found time to get some work done.
When I speak to my Rep. he will get an earfull for sure.

[firefox]

We have had infringements on our rights much much longer than any of those problems. We gave them a job to do, I expect them to get it done.
this is the truth

[Greyh Seer]

I have contacted the office of both of my Reps and informed them of my desire for them to support these bills.

[stainless1911]

I am anout to contact mine again, and let her know that either 4009 or preemption must be passed, or I will be voting for someone else next time.

[Th3 Maelstr0m]

I emailed Congressman LeBlanc today. I thanked him for proposing the bill, then stressed that my fellow CPL holders & myself are concerned that this bill is stuck in limbo & will never see the light of day. I concluded by saying it was my hope that he continue to push for 2A rights & this bill. Here's the response I got:

Dear Mr. Turner: Thank you for your kind words. It is rare that I receive thanks for my work as a State Legislator.

HB 4009 has been promised a hearing by the Chair of the Judiciary Committee to which it has been referred. While I am not aware when it may receive a hearing, it is my hope that it will be considered some time this fall. I will continue to advocate for this bill and changes that further protect our Second Amendment rights.

Regards,
Richard LeBlanc
Michigan State Representative
18th District - Westland

[race4fun]

Any update on the progress of these bill?

[tcb]

I heard they put it in a back burner to focus on the economy.

[SteakNEggs]

I heard they put it in a back burner to focus on the economy.

What's to focus on, we don't have one?

Front burner please???

[firefox]

What's to focus on, we don't have one?

Front burner please???

they havent finished desecrating the corpse of the American middle class yet, once all you non millionaires have an EFM then we can talk about rights.........

[EricF517]

they havent finished desecrating the corpse of the American middle class yet, once all you non millionaires have an EFM then we can talk about rights.........

LOL that is funny.

[JohnnieBravo]

they havent finished desecrating the corpse of the American middle class yet, once all you non millionaires have an EFM then we can talk about rights.........
Would you rather go back to the Jenny days?

[DEVIL DOG]

I think she inherited most of what we had going back then. But I'll admit she did little to solve any of the problems. Still, times were alot less tense. The NERD scares me !!!!!!!

[Divegeek]

The NERD scares me !!!!!!!

+1

[firefox]

Would you rather go back to the Jenny days?

she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder

[1911lover]

she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder

LOL

[EricF517]

she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder

:lolup: must be :etoh:

[LeverActionAl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefox
she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder


:lolup: must be :etoh: union worker

FIXED IT FOR YA!:hoppinhappy:

[Quaamik]

she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder
:lolup: :lolup: :lolup: :lolup:

[SteakNEggs]

she wasn't good but she was a hell of a lot better than snyder

Yup, she blew me the .... away! How can anyone FAIL THAT BAD..

She inherited nothing. I go to work everyday and inherit nothing, I do what I got to do to get the damn job done. :gogs:

Soo... How about that little bill that would make life so much more easier??

[sasquatchpa]

The nerd gave tax breaks to the most wealthy,
and paid for it on the backs of college students, k-12 schools, and retirees, under 67 years old.

Pass any 2a bills quick because change is coming!

[firefox]

The nerd gave tax breaks to the most wealthy,
and paid for it on the backs of college students, k-12 schools, and retirees, under 67 years old.

Pass any 2a bills quick because change is coming!


exactly

[Pond Scum]

The nerd gave tax breaks to the most wealthy,
and paid for it on the backs of college students, k-12 schools, and retirees, under 67 years old.

He is working hard to make Michigan friendly to business and business owners so we will have jobs.

[DEVIL DOG]

He is working hard to make Michigan friendly to business and business owners so we will have jobs.
You paint such a warm & fuzzy picture. He could care less if YOU have a job.

[[ion] C2]

He could care less if YOU have a job.
So you're saying he does care at least some if we have a job.

http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

(pet peeve on this phrase, sorry lol)

[DEVIL DOG]

I just don't think any Republican in office right now has any agenda that will help one individual find or keep a job. They are focused on their benefactors and whatever will help them make more $$$. The recent attacks on lower income folks here & in DC,is proof of that. I support a balanced budget at the state & national level. But cutting programs for the less fortunate among us should never be an option for getting there.
Snyder recently inacted a statute that will automatically remove someone from the welfare rolls after 4 years. Shouldn't there be some sort of help for these people to find some kind of job & then remove them? Then if they refuse to take a job, they're on their own.
I know it's high time we rid these people from the trough, but let's be civil about it.

[Unistat76]

Snyder recently inacted a statute that will automatically remove someone from the welfare rolls after 4 years. Shouldn't there be some sort of help for these people to find some kind of job & then remove them? Then if they refuse to take a job, they're on their own.

There is help. It's called four years of welfare. FOUR YEARS! Seriously, if they can't get a job (and there are job placement programs) in four years, then extra time and effort isn't going to help.

[Bronson]

I say we just eat them.

Bronson

[Unistat76]

I say we just eat them.

Bronson

Soylent Green is PEOPLE! YOU'RE EATING PEOPLE!

[rigges]

Umm lets get back on track here!

Why is it taking out State peps so long to get this done OHIO just modified there and it goes in to nope it just went in to effect so why is it our state reps cant get this done any faster are they asleep?:cannon:

[[ion] C2]

Why is it taking out State peps so long to get this done OHIO just modified there and it goes in to nope it just went in to effect so why is it our state reps cant get this done any faster are they asleep?
:crazy:

Why is it taking our State reps so long to get this done? OHIO just modified theirs and it just went into effect, so why is it our state reps can't get this done any faster? Are they asleep?

Have you called them?

[Heavy Guns]

They've been too busy mandating the size of a pint glass. No, I'm not joking.

[DEVIL DOG]

C2']:crazy:


Have you called them?
I spoke to Doug Geiss recently, & he said the bums are too interested in getting the economy fixed. If it was up to him, all of these bills would be law by now.
Check the web site for the Judiciary Committee & you'll see all of these bills are stuck there. He said they have no priority right now, so don't hold your breath.
He said hopefully be heard in the fall. Oct. isn't it?

[[ion] C2]

First it was "hopefully they'll be heard in the spring" then June/July... now fall.. :|

[45/70fan]

C2']First it was "hopefully they'll be heard in the spring" then June/July... now fall.. :|

I've heard fall all along.

[durus5995]

I've heard fall all along.

I head the same. I wonder if a mail / call campaign would get some pressure on these guys to make it a priority. I know I just sent an email out to Representative Horn last night.

[45/70fan]

I head the same. I wonder if a mail / call campaign would get some pressure on these guys to make it a priority. I know I just sent an email out to Representative Horn last night.

Certainly can't hurt to let them know we are watching their actions or inaction closely. My rep and senator hear from me frequently.

[DEVIL DOG]

Recieved an E-MAIL from Doug Geiss yesterday. Said 4009 was all but dead in commitee. Thinks if a republican would sponsor a similar bill it would move forward.

[XDM 40 cal]

Recieved an E-MAIL from Doug Geiss yesterday. Said 4009 was all but dead in commitee. Thinks if a republican would sponsor a similar bill it would move forward.

This is not good, what will it take? I guess what you are suggesting would help ,but the Gov is thinking of one thing, keep his job before he losses his.
( Also trying to build a bridge too) < dont see the point..
I fear that there alot of our Rep's in lansing dont care about this subject at this time, and there on the one track mind set of make job's..

I hope this changes...in 2012.:pepsi:

[BOSS302]

Recieved an E-MAIL from Doug Geiss yesterday. Said 4009 was all but dead in commitee. Thinks if a republican would sponsor a similar bill it would move forward.

Who are the Republicans on the committee? Should we send them some e-mails?

[45/70fan]

Don't dispair, legislation is in the mill and I'm told the Gov supports it.

[Pistol Teacher]

Don't dispair, legislation is in the mill and I'm told the Gov supports it.

I talked to Senator Green's office yesterday and they said there is not enough support for this bill and his bill SB58 2011. They have not heard back from MGO or MOC. They believe the possible only way this will pass is if there is a total grass roots movement. This subject or bills has very soft support from State members.

[appliancebrad]

In keeping the No Carry Zones for the just passed Taser Bill, the Senate has reinforced that there is no interest, none, nada, epis, zip in removing them.

If you can't carry a single shot, less than lethal means of self defense in the current no carry zones, there is no way that they will think about letting you carry a firearm there.

We need a new tactic.

[Bronson]

We need a new tactic.

Get every person with a CPL to start OCing in the concealed PFZs. When confronted you can say "I want to keep it concealed but the MI legislators force me to carry it out in the open like this."

Bronson

[Leader]

Get every person with a CPL to start OCing in the concealed PFZs. When confronted you can say "I want to keep it concealed but the MI legislators force me to carry it out in the open like this."

Bronson

Good Luck with that when many here on a GUN BOARD think open carry should get you arrested.

Besides, it "Scares the children".

[BOSS302]

Maybe one or two of the PFZs are not achievable (schools?). Find out what they are and remove the rest.

[[ion] C2]

So this went far

[rigges]

We need to really act and operate more like Buckeye Firearms Association.
We should have a news letter that goes out all the time and do some changes to match out Brother association Buckeye Firearms Association.

As they went from far behind MI and have gotten things Done and Laws passed we are basically just sitting on our azzs and not doing anything Productive to gain members or to change the Laws here in this state.

That is Why this bill has basically died with no advancement.


:bs:

[PhotoTom]

We need to really act and operate more like Buckeye Firearms Association.
We should have a news letter that goes out all the time and do some changes to match out Brother association Buckeye Firearms Association.

As they went from far behind MI and have gotten things Done and Laws passed we are basically just sitting on our azzs and not doing anything Productive to gain members or to change the Laws here in this state.

That is Why this bill has basically died with no advancement.


:bs:

The newsletter committee needs volunteers. Please feel free to step-up and make it happen!

[Quaamik]

Get every person with a CPL to start OCing in the concealed PFZs. When confronted you can say "I want to keep it concealed but the MI legislators force me to carry it out in the open like this."

Bronson

The idea has merit.

To make it work we need:
-- support of concealed carry people (not just people who want to OC)
-- to do it in an organized way such to get both positive press and to make it difficult to intimidate those that do with threats of legal action.

Good luck with the last. Of the PFZs, only court houses and schools are public property. The property owners of the others can easily ask / force OCers to leave regardless of if it is legal. Hence the purpose of concealed carry. Court houses are not PFZs under the law, but are covered under court rules. Schools are the LAST place we will get positive press out of an organized OC display.

Though difficult, I think that a grass roots appeal to the lawmakers is our best (only effective) option.

[rigges]

The newsletter committee needs volunteers. Please feel free to step-up and make it happen!
OK I guess I will

I sent my E-mail requesting the news letter and I stated I will help out. :poke:

[TheQ]

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1459761&postcount=260

[TheQ]

The idea has merit.

To make it work we need:
-- support of concealed carry people (not just people who want to OC)
-- to do it in an organized way such to get both positive press and to make it difficult to intimidate those that do with threats of legal action.

Good luck with the last. Of the PFZs, only court houses and schools are public property. The property owners of the others can easily ask / force OCers to leave regardless of if it is legal. Hence the purpose of concealed carry. Court houses are not PFZs under the law, but are covered under court rules. Schools are the LAST place we will get positive press out of an organized OC display.

Though difficult, I think that a grass roots appeal to the lawmakers is our best (only effective) option.

Except in Ingham County (thanks to People v. Wilkins (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=136331)) people risk being locked up for OC in a so-called Pistol Free Zone -- even if they have a CPL.

[Quaamik]

I be a downer, but I expect the decision (no exmption for CPL holders) to be upheld on apeal.

I wish it were different but the law is not as clear on the issue as many OCs seem to believe. It's open by omission - that is it bans pistols from being carried there, and excepts CPL holders, then a different portion of the law bans CPL holders from carrying thier concealed pistol there. Its' not a huge leap to interpert the first portion as exempting CPL holders who are carrying concealed and the second portion as revoking that exemption.

Thta's part of the reason I think pushing the issue through legislation is the way to go. Pushing by OCing (individualy) will likely result in a mix of people being asked to leave and those who are arrested for it. OCing in small groups ups the likelyhood of a police responce and - especially in those areas where police don't like OC - ups the likelyhood of a "arrest them all, let the judge sort it out" response. A large group OCing will more likely give pause to that idea, and will give media attention, but could just as easily result in a "clarification" to the law that they are PFZs that apply to everyone not exempted as a special class of cpl holder. You know that MSP and many other police groups will back it (since they are exempt anyway and get the heebi-jeebies at the thought of someone deciding to OC an AK through a school (and reality or not, that is how it will be portayed).

[Pond Scum]

Good Luck with that when many here on a GUN BOARD think open carry should get you arrested.

Besides, it "Scares the children".


Thanks for the encouragement Leader .... I needed a little nudge to OC more often! :smile:

[SteakNEggs]

I am hearing there will be a new push for removal of these asinine restrictions next year. Fingers crossed...

[[ion] C2]

I am hearing there will be a new push for removal of these asinine restrictions next year. Fingers crossed...
that's what was said last year, lol

and the year before

[TheQ]

I am hearing there will be a new push for removal of these asinine restrictions next year. Fingers crossed...


I'm not sure where you heard that....?

Citation please?

Rumors on Internet Forums are plentiful.

[SteakNEggs]

I'm not sure where you heard that....?

Citation please?

Rumors on Internet Forums are plentiful.

The Draftsman :thumbup:

[rigges]

The Draftsman :thumbup:
http://images.comicbookresources.com/studiotours/harris/sm/P1270002-1.jpg

[SteakNEggs]

LOL!

[Th3 Maelstr0m]

I wrote Representative LeBlanc (again) yesterday & had a response this morning in my inbox. Here it is:

Thank you for your message regarding HB 4009. I appreciated hearing from you.

HB 4009 will remain an active bill through the end of session this year. As you are aware, it is still in the Judiciary Committee and has yet to receive a hearing. Although I had hoped that it would have been considered sooner, I still remain optimistic that this bill will be taken up before this session concludes at the end of the year.

I will continue to advocate for the removal of pistol free zones for those licensed to carry a concealed pistol. It is my sincere hope that a bill will be passed by the House addressing this issue.

Again, thank you for contacting me. If you wish to discuss this further, or if I can assist you with other matters involving Westland or our great state, I hope you will choose to contact my office toll-free at (888) 737-5325.

Regards,
Richard LeBlanc
Michigan State Representative
18th District - Westland

[EcksFactor]

nice! Is this directly related and working in parallel with the Senate bill 0058? Kinda a "pincer move" or sorts? I don't know much about political strategy.

[maustin195]

I be a downer, but I expect the decision (no exmption for CPL holders) to be upheld on apeal.

I wish it were different but the law is not as clear on the issue as many OCs seem to believe. It's open by omission - that is it bans pistols from being carried there, and excepts CPL holders, then a different portion of the law bans CPL holders from carrying thier concealed pistol there. Its' not a huge leap to interpert the first portion as exempting CPL holders who are carrying concealed and the second portion as revoking that exemption.

Thta's part of the reason I think pushing the issue through legislation is the way to go. Pushing by OCing (individualy) will likely result in a mix of people being asked to leave and those who are arrested for it. OCing in small groups ups the likelyhood of a police responce and - especially in those areas where police don't like OC - ups the likelyhood of a "arrest them all, let the judge sort it out" response. A large group OCing will more likely give pause to that idea, and will give media attention, but could just as easily result in a "clarification" to the law that they are PFZs that apply to everyone not exempted as a special class of cpl holder. You know that MSP and many other police groups will back it (since they are exempt anyway and get the heebi-jeebies at the thought of someone deciding to OC an AK through a school (and reality or not, that is how it will be portayed).

Have you read Attorney General Opinion 7113? This seems to say the opposite of what you believe. It pertains to Reserve Police Officers but says the only way they can carry a pistol in a PFZ is if they have a CPL not because they are uniformed the way I read it.

[SADAacp]

Have you read Attorney General Opinion 7133? This seems to say the opposite of what you believe. It pertains to Reserve Police Officers but says the only way they can carry a pistol in a PFZ is if they have a CPL not because they are uniformed the way I read it.

7113

[maustin195]

7113
Sorry, you are right.

[rigges]

Sorry, you are right.
WOW I read all of that Opinion and it is very clear what was stated.
and it was reinforced there to.
Go to it and read it it is quite eye opening.

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10188.htm
:salute:

[the500kid]

The Chairman of the Judiciary Committee is John J. Walsh his email address is JohnWalsh@house.mi.gov

[rigges]

The Chairman of the Judiciary Committee is John J. Walsh his email address is JohnWalsh@house.mi.gov

OK well I sent him an Email so lets see what he has to say.:mg:

[Quaamik]

Have you read Attorney General Opinion 7113? This seems to say the opposite of what you believe. It pertains to Reserve Police Officers but says the only way they can carry a pistol in a PFZ is if they have a CPL not because they are uniformed the way I read it.

Actually I wasn't aware of that. I'll read it.

Please don't misunderstand. I want the apelate courts to say you can carry openly in one of the PFZs. And I am NOT a lawyer. It was just that my readign of the laws involved lead me to think it had / has a poor chance of being read that way. Maybe that AG opinion will help.

[DEVIL DOG]

Richard Leblanc wrote this bill & is in his last term. So I believe if this is not addressed in this session, it will die in commitee. We all need to pressure Walsh to get this to move forward.