Child proofing with height?

[Groo]

What do you guys think of just keeping weapon up high to "child-proof" them?

My wife is above average height and my vertical reach is over 8', so any kids would have to be old enough to know better.

[Daniels]

What do you guys think of just keeping weapon up high to "child-proof" them?

My wife is above average height and my vertical reach is over 8', so any kids would have to be old enough to know better.


I guess it depends how old they are and if they'd be capable of pushing a chair up and climbing or something like that.

[Tallbear]

When I was 8 years old there wasn't a"safe" hiding place in my house including the attic.

The only "safe" storage is to make it so it can not be fired when found. Remember that your children will have friends over and those friends probably haven't been taught the four safety rules....... STOP, DON"T TOUCH, LEAVE THE AREA, TELL AN ADULT YOU TRUST.

[BOSS302]

Maybe for infants, but I'd still recommend a small quick access safe if you can afford it. Once they become mobile they'll end up in and on things you didn't expect.

[DetroitBiker]

Never underestimate the curiosity of a child

[dmo8361]

When I was 8 years old there wasn't a"safe" hiding place in my house including the attic.

.

This. Lock it up.

[who dat]

Never underestimate the curiosity of a childOr their superpower of climbing. My kid could scale the refrigerator at 3, climb a doorway at 4, and spread himself between the two walls of the hallway at about 6. He'd then walk from one end of the hall to the other with his hands and feet pressing the walls as his only support.

The maple tree in the back yard was no match. He'd top that in a couple minutes.

Get a safe.

[kdogg]

I'm dealing with this right now too. We have a 10 month old in the house!

We also have a 14 and 16 year old but they know better then to play with guns or show there friends our guns. They also shoot etc. I still keep them locked up though, the pistols anyway.

I currently do not have a safe big enough to hold the rifles so I've removed the bolt and carrier groups and put those in my small electronically accessed pistol safe which obviously holds my pistols too. It's actually not a bad little safe. Has a key lock too. Turn the key to the right, it bypasses the electronic push button access pad, turn the key to the left and it disables the keypad so you HAVE to have a key to get in. Came with mounting to mount it into concrete or a wall etc.

Sooner or later I need to invest in a real safe though. This has been on my mine for about the past year or so! :D

[usmcpaul]

What do you guys think of just keeping weapon up high to "child-proof" them?

Don't do it. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.


so any kids would have to be old enough to know better.

Famous last words.

Dude, for $99 (or less) you can get a small pistol safe which could save someones life. Not the best safe, but way better than "up high"

[oldskoolford427]

[QUOTE=Tallbear]When I was 8 years old there wasn't a"safe" hiding place in my house including the attic.

+1
I would climb the antenna pole to get up on the roof there was no safe place............... when I was a kid!!!:biggrin:

[GPintheMitten]

Absolutely not. Height is not secured. My daughter at 2 years old climb a built in bookcase to the ceiling. Luckily I walked in and got her down before she fell. If you can afford a gun, you can afford a lock box.

[sullyxlh]

What do you guys think of just keeping weapon up high to "child-proof" them?

My wife is above average height and my vertical reach is over 8', so any kids would have to be old enough to know better.How can you be so sure only a short person will B&E your house or are you exempt from break in's???

[_DK_]

They'll find a way.

Say you put a shelf up high... You have brooms in the house? Does your child have toys? My 4yr old is pretty adept at knocking things off shelves far above his reach.

When mine's not on me or in the safe, its in a $25 keyed lock box from walmart

[SPIKE]

Groo
Been beat up enough yet? :wink:
Let me add that every household that I have ever done a Home Firearm Safety class in, once you isolate the kids from the parents , the kids will tell you they know and can access ALL the guns in the house. There are no SAFE places to hide a gun only a safe to put them in.
Mike

[Daniels]

How can you be so sure only a short person will B&E your house or are you exempt from break in's???

I don't get this post. lol

[2571]

Found a cheap pistol I had hidden behind a book on top shelf of library years before and then forgotten. Mentioned it to my kid, who was then in college. She told me she had known about that gun being there since 5th grade.

[Groo]

So 4 or 5 to about 10 would be the danger years then, if I'm not stupid about it.

Yes, I know kids younger than that can climb, but I wasn't planning on giving them anything to climb in the immediate vicinity.

That at least gives me some time to save up for something that would be more effective than a padlock on a closet door.

[GPintheMitten]

So 4 or 5 to about 10 would be the danger years then, if I'm not stupid about it.

Yes, I know kids younger than that can climb, but I wasn't planning on giving them anything to climb in the immediate vicinity.

That at least gives me some time to save up for something that would be more effective than a padlock on a closet door.

Sounds pretty stupid to me. Save up? $30 to $50, probably less will get you something that will keep the kids safe from the gun, until you get a safe you're more proud of.

[_DK_]

So 4 or 5 to about 10 would be the danger years then, if I'm not stupid about it.

Yes, I know kids younger than that can climb, but I wasn't planning on giving them anything to climb in the immediate vicinity.

That at least gives me some time to save up for something that would be more effective than a padlock on a closet door.

My 4 yr old son dragged a chair from 3 rooms away so he could get his fruit snacks off the top of the refrigerator... Don't underestimate the problem solving skills of toddlers.

He's stacked multiple objects to get his desired height as well when mischief was his goal...


Don't let the cute face fool yah, Damion is in there....
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5494_1205325498749_1397003819_30596251_6407626_n.j pg

[usmcpaul]

So 4 or 5 to about 10 would be the danger years then, if I'm not stupid about it.

Yes, I know kids younger than that can climb, but I wasn't planning on giving them anything to climb in the immediate vicinity.

That at least gives me some time to save up for something that would be more effective than a padlock on a closet door.


I hope this is a joke.... I don't get my feathers in a ruffle about much, but if you can not afford a $50-$100 gun safe, and refuse to use a trigger guard or cable lock that comes with all new guns, ...and you think that the "height of the gun" will keep your gun safe enough......*** get rid of it. Only bad things will come of it. Invest in a good "tactical/Tapco baseball bat" and call it good. At least I will not have to read about your kid killing himself, or his friend.

Sorry about the rant, but really:nono:

[Quaamik]

A 'safe" isn't necessary. If all you want to do is keep your child from using it, there are several cheap options:

Cheapest:
Dissasemble it. Removing the bolt or slide is pretty bloody foolproof.

Included trigger lock / cable lock / case lock for newer guns.

Free trigger locks are offered at many police departments.


Next cheapest:
Put a locking doorknob on a closet and turn it into your "safe". You can do this for under $20.

An additional benifit of this is that if you are keeping it for home defense, while you are in bed at night (next to the closet) you can leave the key in the lock.

[Groo]

My 4 yr old son dragged a chair from 3 rooms away so he could get his fruit snacks off the top of the refrigerator... Don't underestimate the problem solving skills of toddlers.

I hope you noticed a chair getting dragged across the house.



I hope this is a joke.... I don't get my feathers in a ruffle about much, but if you can not afford a $50-$100 gun safe, and refuse to use a trigger guard or cable lock that comes with all new guns, ...and you think that the "height of the gun" will keep your gun safe enough......*** get rid of it. Only bad things will come of it. Invest in a good "tactical/Tapco baseball bat" and call it good. At least I will not have to read about your kid killing himself, or his friend.

Sorry about the rant, but really:nono:

Don't worry; you almost never read of events going on up here in the news down there.

Maybe I don't take it as seriously as some of you because I never had an urge to "play" with my dad's guns, and neither did my brother.

ps. owning a bat as a weapon may be illegal under MI law.


A 'safe" isn't necessary. If all you want to do is keep your child from using it, there are several cheap options:

Cheapest:
Dissasemble it. Removing the bolt or slide is pretty bloody foolproof.

Included trigger lock / cable lock / case lock for newer guns.

Free trigger locks are offered at many police departments.


Next cheapest:
Put a locking doorknob on a closet and turn it into your "safe". You can do this for under $20.

An additional benifit of this is that if you are keeping it for home defense, while you are in bed at night (next to the closet) you can leave the key in the lock.

Keys dangling out of locks sounds more dangerous to a young toddler than an unloaded gun. Everything goes in the mouth, but the strength to rack a slide is lacking at this point. My house is also rather light on closets.

I'm still trying to figure out a good solution to keep 1 gun accessible to me but not to kids (and ideally burglars too). Locking up the other guns can be done easy enough. They have hard cases, but thats a crappy way to store a gun long term, and I have the surface rust to prove it. Maybe I'll make a cabinet.

The only things that is coming to mind is a hidden behind a painting "safe" with a dummy light switch to unlock it; or over the bedroom door on the bedroom side. That won't work anymore once the young-one is old enough to be left inside alone. until then, anyone trying to get a gun there would be seen from the living room and the kitchen.

Now that I'm thinking of it; (trying to get ideas flowing is the reason I started this thread) maybe a lockable display cabinet with lift top to access a spot for the pistol would be the best option. It wouldn't be overly theft resistant, but that isn't its primary purpose.

[_DK_]

now he's figured out he just needs to use the trash can.

I just have a devious child I suppose, you probably have nothing to worry about, My defensive pistols are loaded w/round chambered 24/7 ( with exception of cleaning) so I need to make sure there is no possible chance my kids can get a hold of one unsupervised. My 10yr old shoots, but don't trust her with the codes... target/hunting guns are cable locked.

Just buy a gunvault and call it a day.

[esq_stu]

When I was 8 years old there wasn't a"safe" hiding place in my house including the attic.My dad hid a pistol in the attic. Had to get on a ladder and open a hatch in the ceiling of the closet of one of the bedrooms to get to the gun. That did not stop me.

[GPintheMitten]

This reminds me of an episode on *MASH* 4077th.

Hawkeye told Radar that good advice doesn't do any good unless you follow it.

Groo, you've received a lot of good advice. Please pick on solution and implement it. Otherwise, if you already are convinced that height is the solution, why ask?

I guess we're all just trying to help you make the gun and your kid(s) safe. I suppose though, if your kid is still crawling, you might be ok for a little while, but what about other little folks or adults who may visit? Seems like this is a better safe than sorry situation.

Good luck to ya.

[Groo]

This reminds me of an episode on *MASH* 4077th.

Hawkeye told Radar that good advice doesn't do any good unless you follow it.

Groo, you've received a lot of good advice. Please pick on solution and implement it. Otherwise, if you already are convinced that height is the solution, why ask?

I guess we're all just trying to help you make the gun and your kid(s) safe. I suppose though, if your kid is still crawling, you might be ok for a little while, but what about other little folks or adults who may visit? Seems like this is a better safe than sorry situation.

Good luck to ya.

Ummm, I did say this in my last post;


Now that I'm thinking of it; (trying to get ideas flowing is the reason I started this thread) maybe a lockable display cabinet with lift top to access a spot for the pistol would be the best option. It wouldn't be overly theft resistant, but that isn't its primary purpose.

I'd think hidden and out of reach would be safe for a HD pistol with the rest locked up. Do you disagree?
I don't trust cheap (or expensive for that matter) biometric locks to work in an emergency situation and haven't heard anything better in these posts.

[Too Tall]

I have a 2 year old. He's already climbing on everything.

I use a Stack-On ($119) cabinet for all of my long guns and non-carry pistols and a Gun Vault 2000 deluxe ($150) for my carry pistol (when it's not on me).

The gun vault can be accessed quickly with as little as pressing 3 buttons (I think)...my code is a little more complex but easy for us to remember. Takes me all of 4-5 seconds to access my gun.

Neither option is particularly burglar proof but they are kid proof (at least until he turns about 12....at 12 I would be able to figure some way into that Stack-on!)

[GPintheMitten]

Building a box with a lock would be good.

Yes, I disagree with hidden and out of reach being safe.

There are Gun-vaults and other lock boxes that are not biometric.

Good luck.

[hendo]

I have a 2 year old. He's already climbing on everything.

I use a Stack-On ($119) cabinet for all of my long guns and non-carry pistols and a Gun Vault 2000 deluxe ($150) for my carry pistol (when it's not on me).

The gun vault can be accessed quickly with as little as pressing 3 buttons (I think)...my code is a little more complex but easy for us to remember. Takes me all of 4-5 seconds to access my gun.

Neither option is particularly burglar proof but they are kid proof (at least until he turns about 12....at 12 I would be able to figure some way into that Stack-on!)

Meijers has had Gun Vault 2000 deluxe for even less lately, though not sure if it's still
on sale but could be worth checking. :twocents:

[usmcpaul]

I'd think hidden and out of reach would be safe for a HD pistol with the rest locked up. Do you disagree?


I do disagree. 100%

Do you have a budget for a quick access safe? Or is your original inquiry, more or less, "A way to make yourself feel better about the decision you think is right"?

OK, here is a "thinking out of the box" idea. What about a dedicated drawer that has a small night light in it that turns on when the drawer is opened, the gun in it with a cable lock or trigger lock, and a key that is worn on a necklace. Kinda like dog tags. This way the gun could be kept fully loaded, pose no threat to kids, easily accessed... even at night.

I really like my quick access safe that looks like a clock radio(it is a fully functioning alarm/radio)... I have had mine for 15 years and never had a problem with it yet, although my buddy says they are not being made anymore. I dunno, I have not looked.

[Buzzcat]

My dad hid a pistol in the attic. .


My dad kept a Commander Tommy Gun w/ammo in the bottom drawer of his unlocked dresser.

Fortunately, he showed his 9 year old son how it worked, let him shoot it, and let him know it wasn't a toy.

The son abided. :wink:

[Jack-w-1911]

Even a simple $20-$30 lock box is better than nothing. It won't keep thieves from taking the box, but it will keep the little ones curiosity from an accident that no one can take back.

There was a story here on MGO about this very subject a few moths ago. The child was use to using the gun on a home game system and got curious about the gun on top of the fridge. It had a terrible ending and the family made the news because of it. Don't make the news this way.

[Chopper]

teach them ,teach them ,teach them ,DO NOT HIDE GUNS FROM KIDS, it becomes to much not to play with when thay find it and thay will find it

[kevins_garage]

You can also child proof with weight. If a gun is too heavy for a child to lift, or the trigger pull is too much for them to handle, you could just leave the gun fully loaded on your dresser or nightstand - they won't be able to do anything with it, but it will still be within easy reach for you should you need it...

:thup:

[Hawgrider]

You can also child proof with weight. If a gun is too heavy for a child to lift, or the trigger pull is too much for them to handle, you could just leave the gun fully loaded on your dresser or nightstand - they won't be able to do anything with it, but it will still be within easy reach for you should you need it...

:thup:I certainly wouldn't depend on trigger pull weight:shake: not a good idea.
If gun is too heavy ? better explain that one. Hope nobody's take this advice seriously.:doh:



This is the best advise...... it worked on my kids


teach them ,teach them ,teach them ,DO NOT HIDE GUNS FROM KIDS, it becomes to much not to play with when thay find it and thay will find it

[Jerbear1098]

I have a 2 year old. He's already climbing on everything.

I use a Stack-On ($119) cabinet for all of my long guns and non-carry pistols and a Gun Vault 2000 deluxe ($150) for my carry pistol (when it's not on me).

The gun vault can be accessed quickly with as little as pressing 3 buttons (I think)...my code is a little more complex but easy for us to remember. Takes me all of 4-5 seconds to access my gun.

Neither option is particularly burglar proof but they are kid proof (at least until he turns about 12....at 12 I would be able to figure some way into that Stack-on!)


By the time he is 12, he should already be on the range and practicing gun safety.

My 2 boys were in ATA competition at the age of 12. Got them shooting at the age of 7.

[kevins_garage]

I certainly wouldn't depend on trigger pull weight:shake: not a good idea.
If gun is too heavy ? better explain that one. Hope nobody's take this advice seriously.:doh:
Sorry, I must have forgot the tags or you didn't get it...

Childproofing with weight is just as stupid as childproofing with height. Either secure your firearms properly or don't. Just know what you are getting into if you think putting them on the top shelf of your closet is "secure storage"...

[Hawgrider]

Sorry, I must have forgot the tags or you didn't get it...

Childproofing with weight is just as stupid as childproofing with height. Either secure your firearms properly or don't. Just know what you are getting into if you think putting them on the top shelf of your closet is "secure storage"...Nope I didn't get it .....thought you were serious.

[GPintheMitten]

I can't believe Groo is seriously considering securing with height only.

This frustrates me, but oh, well. Maybe he will be lucky and nothing will happen. But if the horrible thing happens, I hope they throw him in jail for reckless endangerment.

[Daniels]

I just picked up a Multi Deluxe Gun vault and really like it. I recommend something like this if you have kids in the house.

[Mark Tomczyk]

@ Chopper - I agree teach them and hopefully they will respect it.

It seems most of us have kids and I know nothing is safe from my 3 year old. He can climb or figure out how to get to something if he really wants it. Putting the gun up high is not the solution. There are so many safes out there on the market and not very expensive. Like a few have already said, if you can afford the gun you can afford a safe or something to keep your kids safe.

[gidaeon]

IMO there is a huge difference between "hiding them" and keeping them out of others hands, while letting them know what is safe and appropriate.

There is zero room for mistakes or oversight here. I vote teaching them and keeping a ready pistol both secured (quick access) and high for little ones. I would never leave a 4 button safe on the floor. Kids have a way of "beating the odds" sometimes.

I've never "hidden" firearms from my children as they would no doubt discover anything hidden, but I do always keep them secure. Someone may more easily steal such a pistol box but they will be taking a giant shelf with them along the way.

You want to see what's in the safe? Curiosity is acceptable. Ask first, demonstrate your responsibility, and follow the rules... and then I will re-secure.

[rambro]

I guess it depends how old they are and if they'd be capable of pushing a chair up and climbing or something like that.

depends on what you are activating, but you could have two buttons hidden, 7-8 feet apart. One under a carpet, the other behind crown molding, you stand on the carpet one, and push the crown molding one.

Redundancy. Anyone can stumble onto anything by accident, but make it a two step process, and even if someone is looking, its about a 1 % chance they can with plenty of time every figure out what you did when there is infinite possible combinations of things to hide as use as switch, button, release, cable etc. Make it a two or three steps you can do in 1-2 seconds and they wont do it.

Like if you hid a gun on a shelf they would almost certainly find it.

If you make a shelf, with removeable back panel, and gun safe in the wall, and they have to remove all the books (put them in order and never touch them yourself so you know if your brat kid fiddles with them, if they do fiddle with them and lie, the go nuclear on the kid). Anyways have a pile of books you can throw on the floor if you need to, a panel that can be removed in less than a second, then your safe is there.

[rambro]

IMO there is a huge difference between "hiding them" and keeping them out of others hands, while letting them know what is safe and appropriate.

There is zero room for mistakes or oversight here. I vote teaching them and keeping a ready pistol both secured (quick access) and high for little ones. I would never leave a 4 button safe on the floor. Kids have a way of "beating the odds" sometimes.

I've never "hidden" firearms from my children as they would no doubt discover anything hidden, but I do always keep them secure. Someone may more easily steal such a pistol box but they will be taking a giant shelf with them along the way.

You want to see what's in the safe? Curiosity is acceptable. Ask first, demonstrate your responsibility, and follow the rules... and then I will re-secure.

Good point. Address curiousity. I could have my dad show me a gun if i wanted. But he would whip my ass crazy if i looked for his gun. I didn't know where he kept it or how, i never looked. My dad would slap me to the floor for burping at the table, i don't want to know what he would do if i found his gun, much less fired it, jammed it open and didn't know how to close it (release the slide), put it in the spot facing the wrong way or some give away tell tale sign. I would have gotten my azz old school beat.

If i did want to see it the door would close and he would open it a minute later and i could fondle it or ask questions about how it worked.

[steve581581]

Small fireproof safes can be bought at home depot for under $100. I don't have the spare coin to invest in a nice large gun safe so that's what I went with for my pistols and important papers and things. They're easily mounted to the floor also.

[costanza]

When I was 8 years old there wasn't a"safe" hiding place in my house including the attic.

The only "safe" storage is to make it so it can not be fired when found. Remember that your children will have friends over and those friends probably haven't been taught the four safety rules....... STOP, DON"T TOUCH, LEAVE THE AREA, TELL AN ADULT YOU TRUST.

Tallbear:
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but your first sentance is so true. I looked everywhere for anything that I wasn't supposed to have. I had my dad tell me constantly,"Never touch the guns if I am not there". The first thing I did when the parents left the house was grab the guns! Kids simply are curious and should NEVER be trusted with access to firearms-no matter how well coached they are. I am simply lucky nothing very bad ever happened. Always secure your firearms in a vault, except for your everyday carry gun.

[agentorange]

just get a 7/8 gun rifle case from dunhams for 100. If anyone breaks in they will take the whole safe cause its not bolted down. but it keeps my 18 month old daughter from ever getting ahold of my guns and knives.


I think i seen a floor model for 75$ yesterday actually at the taylor dunhams.

[Hawgrider]

This. Lock it up.Locks aren't always fool proof either I took the hinges off my pappy's gun cabinet to by pass the lock. I wouldn't have got busted but when I pulled his ammo drawer out the whole cabinet tipped over and the Jig was up. Got my ass beat.:whip:

[joelansing]

Mine are 4 and 5 years old. I don't trust height. There are 2 guns out in my house. One on as high of a shelf as the 4'10 :( midget wife can reach, the other is in a ceiling. The kids know what a firearm is. The Daisy Red Ryder we use together is within their reach but they know not to touch it or the wrath of daddy will come down. (and they aren't strong enough to cock it yet). It is leaning against a bookshelf with a hair going from the bore to between 2 books. It doesn't move or I know. They know guns hurt and know to keep them pointed right and such. When other kids come over I hide it. I had 13 & 14 year old step children. My house was not child proof. I told them straight up "If you find a gun anyplace don't touch it. It is loaded. If you do touch it don't worry about shooting yourself because I will make you wish you were dead!". Don't lie to your kids. Even a little. That way when you tell them something serious they know it's not an empty threat. Kids learn very fast to listen to you if all you say is the truth. That said, these are nice and cheap http://www.cabelas.com/gun-safes-homak-e-lock-pistol-vault-1.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=708792&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=5711DE51-F5D2-DF11-82EF-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA The Large size is only $40 and will keep kids out. They are a decent bedside box but a criminal will steal the box.
- Joe

[METL]

Mine are 4 and 5 years old. I don't trust height. There are 2 guns out in my house. One on as high of a shelf as the 4'10 :( midget wife can reach, the other is in a ceiling. The kids know what a firearm is. The Daisy Red Ryder we use together is within their reach but they know not to touch it or the wrath of daddy will come down. (and they aren't strong enough to cock it yet).



Don't kid yourself about this one.. you may think they aren't.. and they may not be... the conventional way... but that doesn't mean they can't find a way to wedge it against something and use their whole body... or somehow do it with both of them.... I nearly fell for this one (not strong enough to pull trigger) and I found out that I was right.... the conventional way... but they still found a way when I gave them the frame only..


Just sayin...

[Revdrshad]

First off, even though you're getting beat up pretty bad on this post, let me say that I appreciate you asking on such an important subject.

Master Lock makes a square combination padlock that you can set the combination of. The dials are on the side. So, if you put it behind your trigger in the trigger guard, it should stop most guns from being fired, but give you fast access in an emergency. Plus with the dials being on the side you will be able to keep it pointed in a safe direction. Keep in mind it's a four number lock, so eventually someone could open it though...
$4.00. Problem solved.