Was denied Pistol Permit Help Appreciated

[Td181]

Well i live in the chesterfield township are of Michigan. So i went to chesterfield pd to apply. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago. Which shouldn't effect a pistol purchase permit from my understanding of the law. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09 , or so he said " Going to have to deny you for probable cause." Ive talked to my uncle which is a detective in another county and he couldn't believe it and started laughed said he would look into it. So basically does this make sense to anyone? Im looking at the brady act and im not falling under any of the categories.The Officer said i have the right to take it to Circuit court. The whole time he was doing this he was reading things off of the CCW list which isnt what i was applying for and i told him that.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
Troy

[zigziggityzoo]

The only reason they can deny is if they have Probable Cause that you are a threat to yourself or others.

Probable cause means they could get a warrant or arrest you in lieu - that's how much evidence they need.

The other reasons: if you've been convicted of Domestic Violence (misdemeanor or felony), If you've committed a felony, Dishonorable discharge from the military, if you've ever used the insanity defense, if you're legally incapacitated, etc. etc. - none of these apply to you, so it sounds.

[pgaplayerless]

PP can be denied based on your history if there is "Probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state of the United States. "

Given that you have careless driving, misdemeanor and OWI all in less then 2 yrs ago, it doesn't surprise me they would deny you.

[zigziggityzoo]

PP can be denied based on your history if there is "Probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state of the United States. "

If they have Probable Cause they wouldn't just deny the permit, they'd arrest him.

[pgaplayerless]

If they have Probable Cause they wouldn't just deny the permit, they'd arrest him.

not really.

[zigziggityzoo]

not really.

If I have PC you're going to commit a crime, and I'm a cop, why wouldn't I arrest? I have PC.

[pgaplayerless]

If I have PC you're going to commit a crime, and I'm a cop, why wouldn't I arrest? I have PC.


what exactly would you charge a person with if you have PC to believe he might be threat to himself?

[Buzzcat]

. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago.. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09

Was the officer clear that you wanted a PP, or did he think or assume that you were applying for a CPL?

[who dat]

Well i live in the chesterfield township are of Michigan. So i went to chesterfield pd to apply. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago. Which shouldn't effect a pistol purchase permit from my understanding of the law. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09 , or so he said " Going to have to deny you for probable cause." Ive talked to my uncle which is a detective in another county and he couldn't believe it and started laughed said he would look into it. So basically does this make sense to anyone? Im looking at the brady act and im not falling under any of the categories.The Officer said i have the right to take it to Circuit court. The whole time he was doing this he was reading things off of the CCW list which isnt what i was applying for and i told him that.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
TroyGet a lawyer and appeal.

[zigziggityzoo]

what exactly would you charge a person with if you have PC to believe he might be threat to himself?

The better question is what exactly is probable cause that one might harm themselves?

It's more than a suspicion. We know that, otherwise it'd just be RAS.

Probable cause usually implies there's evidence. Past activity would only give you RAS at best, so there must be more.

[pgaplayerless]

The better question is what exactly is probable cause that one might harm themselves?

It's more than a suspicion. We know that, otherwise it'd just be RAS.

Probable cause usually implies there's evidence. Past activity would only give you RAS at best, so there must be more.


ya well either way it will take a lawyer and a court to decide that and likely change that.

[Td181]

To me its sounded like He used PC because he had nothing else to use. He said i was being denied due to PC and my careless driving. Which makes absolutely no sense. I appreciate all the reply's i will be fighting this 100%.

[$$Midge$$]

Well i live in the chesterfield township are of Michigan. So i went to chesterfield pd to apply. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago. Which shouldn't effect a pistol purchase permit from my understanding of the law. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09 , or so he said " Going to have to deny you for probable cause." Ive talked to my uncle which is a detective in another county and he couldn't believe it and started laughed said he would look into it. So basically does this make sense to anyone? Im looking at the brady act and im not falling under any of the categories.The Officer said i have the right to take it to Circuit court. The whole time he was doing this he was reading things off of the CCW list which isnt what i was applying for and i told him that.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
Troy
CPL and CCW are the same thing. Read the reasons for denial carefully. The following is copied from the application:
Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:

Operating while intoxicated, second offense, MCL 257.625(9)(b)
•
Drunk driving, commercial vehicle, MCL 257.625m(4)

[donald150]

CPL and CCW are the same thing. Read the reasons for denial carefully. The following is copied from the application:
Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:

Operating while intoxicated, second offense, MCL 257.625(9)(b)
•
Drunk driving, commercial vehicle, MCL 257.625m(4)



You might want to go back and re-read everything.

He is trying to get a pistol Purchase permit not a CPL

[kdogg]

Did you try talking directly to the sheriff? I had a friend get denied for some BS like this a few years ago too.

After about 20 or 30 minutes of talking to the sheriff he had his PP and was out the door.

[Td181]

No i did not talk to the sheriff. I talked to the Sgt. directly that was about it.
Im waiting on a phone call back from my Uncle thats a detective hes digging around into it also. Once i hear from him i will go back to the PD and tell them i want to speak to the sheriff directly.

[$$Midge$$]

You might want to go back and re-read everything.

He is trying to get a pistol Purchase permit not a CPL

Sorry you are right, I didn't read it correctly.

[$$Midge$$]

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
Troy[/quote]
Talked to a friend who is involved in the granting process and he sent me this, he said it's the top reasons, there are more.
The following is a partial list of reasons for denial.

Any felony conviction,

Underage Applicant,
Use of False Identification,
Any pending misdemeanor, felony or traffic charge,
Assault charges,
Resisting or obstructing a law enforcement officer,
Drug charges,
Domestic violence charges,
On probation,
Mental problems,
Moral character of applicant,
False information provided on application.Hope this helps.

[khansbarger]

I believe you are allowed to appeal the gun board for your county one. Have you also been denied for a long gun? There when they denie you they are supposed to give you a number you can call for the reason and to appeal if you choose. At least thats how it is in clinton county.

[Td181]

They Mailed me a NICS: Guide for appealing Firearm Transfer Denial
With a NTN Number written on it? What is the NTN number anyone?

And for These
Any felony conviction,

* Underage Applicant,
* Use of False Identification,
* Any pending misdemeanor, felony or traffic charge,
* Assault charges,
* Resisting or obstructing a law enforcement officer,
* Drug charges,
* Domestic violence charges,
* On probation,
* Mental problems,
* Moral character of applicant,
* False information provided on application

I have None on that list,Besides the drug charge which was a misdemeanor

[donald150]

They Mailed me a NICS: Guide for appealing Firearm Transfer Denial
With a NTN Number written on it? What is the NTN number anyone?

And for These
Any felony conviction,

* Underage Applicant,
* Use of False Identification,
* Any pending misdemeanor, felony or traffic charge,
* Assault charges,
* Resisting or obstructing a law enforcement officer,
* Drug charges,
* Domestic violence charges,
* On probation,
* Mental problems,
* Moral character of applicant,
* False information provided on application

I have None on that list,Besides the drug charge which was a misdemeanor

:idea2: It looks like you answered your own question. Nobody said the drug charge had to be a felony.

[zigziggityzoo]

The man clearly qualifies for a CPL, which allows him to buy guns.

There's nothing in the law about drug charges which would make him subject to denial; NICS guidelines are not the law.

[esq_stu]

Get a lawyer and appeal.Go back armed with facts and the law. Reapply. Sometimes persistence works.

If you get no joy, take it up the chain of command - demand specific explanation of why they made that decision. If you are uncomfortable with doing the latter, have a lawyer do it for you. There's a chance that once they know you will make them go through a legal hassle, they'll cave.

[joepistol]

In reading all the posts in this thread, it seems to me the officer may have denied the permit to purchase from a combination of factors which could be lumped under the Mental Health reason for denial.

While probable cause of "danger to self or others" is not a reason for arrest,
it can be used to commit someone for a involuntarily psychiatric evaluation ..

Anyone can be held for 48 hrs. if the "danger to self or others" criteria is suspect. After this timetable, a hearing is held to determine if there is a basis for "certification", which would extend the involuntarily psychiatric evaluation for up to an additional 14 days. As the county must often cover these costs, this evaluation may not come in play, but may be the reason for a pistol permit denial.
Alcohol and/or drug abuse in addition to operating a motor vehicle could easily be considered a danger to self & others. I believe ,in this case, that a lawyer (& a client with the $ and determination to fight this ruling) may be necessary for a purchase permit to be granted..

One cannot downplay the recent events that could support a tightening
of granting a permit to purchase in similar situations...Joepistol..:pistols:

[donald150]

The man clearly qualifies for a CPL, which allows him to buy guns.

There's nothing in the law about drug charges which would make him subject to denial; NICS guidelines are not the law.


Other than the fact that he is not 21 :poke:



Ok well my first issue is im 20, not 21.
I was told from alot of people that i can buy a handgun from a private seller at my age just not retail store? It would be much appreciated for some insight on this.
Another thing is i caught a DUI and a Misdemeanor marijuana charge about 2 years ago. Im assuming this will screw me on getting a pistol?

[Doat]

Get a lawyer and appeal.


Ah yes the Rule of Law. Now go out and retain the services of the perpetuating brotherhood for $2,000 and hope its no more than that.
Illegitimi non carborundum

[who dat]

Ah yes the Rule of Law. Now go out and retain the services of the perpetuating brotherhood for $2,000 and hope its no more than that.
Illegitimi non carborundumNot a lawyer lover I take it. You still do your own dental work?

[Td181]

I plan on going back with hard facts. Im not at the moment even thinking about a lawyer. I dont think i need one, i should be able to handle this without one.


Other than the fact that he is not 21 :poke:

I dont have to be 21 for a Purchase Permit. You can apply at the age of 18 for a PP

[MINI-14MAN]

Just wondered why you need a handgun so bad when you are to young to even buy ammo?

[donald150]

I plan on going back with hard facts. Im not at the moment even thinking about a lawyer. I dont think i need one, i should be able to handle this without one.



I dont have to be 21 for a Purchase Permit. You can apply at the age of 18 for a PP


I know that, :coocoo:

He said you qualified for a CPL. An I said you did not.

[dougwg]

Well i live in the chesterfield township are of Michigan. So i went to chesterfield pd to apply. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago. Which shouldn't effect a pistol purchase permit from my understanding of the law. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09 , or so he said " Going to have to deny you for probable cause." Ive talked to my uncle which is a detective in another county and he couldn't believe it and started laughed said he would look into it. So basically does this make sense to anyone? Im looking at the brady act and im not falling under any of the categories.The Officer said i have the right to take it to Circuit court. The whole time he was doing this he was reading things off of the CCW list which isnt what i was applying for and i told him that.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
Troy
So...

Are you still drinking while being underage?
Still drinking and driving?
Still smoking weed?

Or have you tried to grow up and not be such a screwhead?

[kdogg]

Just wondered why you need a handgun so bad when you are to young to even buy ammo?

Because he has the right to own one or should at least pending no record. Does he really need any reason other then that? I got my first handgun on the day of my 18th birthday, a GLOCK 23 .40 caliber Gen 2. It was actually my birthday gift from my mom which was a BIG stretch for her because I didn't grow up around guns at all, neither did she. We never had them in the house. Anyhoo she got a PP and picked it up from On Target in Kzoo a couple days before my birthday. On the day of my birthday, I got my PP and she transferred it over.

I had half a dozen other handguns before my 21st birthday including stuff such as MAC-11's and TEC-9, thanks mom! Imagine the look on the sheriffs deputies when an 18~19 year old kid was getting a transfer from mom and it was a freaking MAC-11 LOL.. Good times!

I think owning firearms made me more reasonable actually. I made sure to keep myself out of trouble so I didn't loose the right to own them.

[TomE]

So...

Are you still drinking while being underage?
Still drinking and driving?
Still smoking weed?

Or have you tried to grow up and not be such a screwhead?
He admitted to 2 out of 3 , which is enough for Probable Cause to think it could happen again . And you are in the Chesterfield Police Region

[Dabears!]

So...

Are you still drinking while being underage?
Still drinking and driving?
Still smoking weed?

Or have you tried to grow up and not be such a screwhead?


my thoughts exactly
You have already proved twice to not be mature, hell I wouldnt trust you with a car let a lone a gun.

[TomE]

And that place off Sugarbush knows who you are , where you live and what you drive. Good Luck

[Signess]

No i did not talk to the sheriff. I talked to the Sgt. directly that was about it.
Im waiting on a phone call back from my Uncle thats a detective hes digging around into it also. Once i hear from him i will go back to the PD and tell them i want to speak to the sheriff directly.

I'll be the first to say, that Chesterfield PD is one of the most firearm friendly that I have come across in a while. They're usually right up on the game, and fairness of it. Going to the Sheriff dept. will not solve anything in this case. They'll simply send you back over to Chesterfield. Or suggest you retain an attny. to appeal the denial.

Are you sure that you spoke with the Sgt? I'm kind of curious about who specifically you talked to. This is the first time that I have ever heard of a Chesterfield PD SGT. signing off on Purchase Permits. All purchase permits are signed or stamped by the LT.

With that being said, request to speak with LT. Marker rather than the SGT. Rose and the the other lady working will be happy to get you in touch with him.

[Signess]

And that place off Sugarbush knows who you are , where you live and what you drive. Good Luck

Continental Drive to be more precise. :mrgreen:

[pgaplayerless]

So...

Are you still drinking while being underage?
Still drinking and driving?
Still smoking weed?

Or have you tried to grow up and not be such a screwhead?

so you are totally surprised that the PD might deny him base that broke no less then 3 laws that the PD knows about before even turning 21?

probably cause. I think they have plenty.

[MINI-14MAN]

So...

Are you still drinking while being underage?
Still drinking and driving?
Still smoking weed?

Or have you tried to grow up and not be such a screwhead?
Thats what I wanted to ask earlier but not as blunt.(no pun intended)I asked why he needed a handgun so bad when he is not old enough to buy ammo anyway.To the point I was going to ask if the guy who buys his ammo for him is the same guy that buys his beer and sells him his weed?I sell alot of guns FTF and if your not 21 I won't sell a rifle or shotgun either.If I met this dude for a FTF sale I would regret it.Sometimes the PP works to our advantage as far as piece of mind.I believe the LEO did the right thing.Bad decisions catch up to people later and this is a prime example.:shrugs::smoke: :beer: :cheers: :drunk: :cop: :hurl: :jailed: :nono:

[MINI-14MAN]

Because he has the right to own one or should at least pending no record. Does he really need any reason other then that? I got my first handgun on the day of my 18th birthday, a GLOCK 23 .40 caliber Gen 2. It was actually my birthday gift from my mom which was a BIG stretch for her because I didn't grow up around guns at all, neither did she. We never had them in the house. Anyhoo she got a PP and picked it up from On Target in Kzoo a couple days before my birthday. On the day of my birthday, I got my PP and she transferred it over.

I had half a dozen other handguns before my 21st birthday including stuff such as MAC-11's and TEC-9, thanks mom! Imagine the look on the sheriffs deputies when an 18~19 year old kid was getting a transfer from mom and it was a freaking MAC-11 LOL.. Good times!

I think owning firearms made me more reasonable actually. I made sure to keep myself out of trouble so I didn't loose the right to own them.
Mommy, can you buy me a gun for my birthday?:bdaysmile::birthday: :lollol:

[TomE]

Continental Drive to be more precise. :mrgreen:
I was coming back on to edit that part , I've been gone 3 + years . They are within sight of the Sugarbush Tavern though , if Kent is still owner I think . I always wondered , tossing beers and shoes down out back , cop shop closeby ????

[Td181]

I dont
*Drink
*Smoke anything besides cigarettes

I have done alot of growing up. I love how people judge knowing nothing about me, shows alot about a person.
A friendly forum turns into a group of judgmental *****s in a matter of days.

[dougwg]

I dont
*Drink
*Smoke anything besides cigarettes

I have done alot of growing up. I love how people judge knowing nothing about me, shows alot about a person.
A friendly forum turns into a group of judgmental *****s in a matter of days.
I just asked a few questions.

Try not to get all butt hurt about it.

[pistoltraining]

It sounds like it falls under the 3 year misdemeanors..MCL 324.81134. Ask them speciffically, they will tell you.





Well i live in the chesterfield township are of Michigan. So i went to chesterfield pd to apply. I have had a misdemeanor and OWI 2 years ago. Which shouldn't effect a pistol purchase permit from my understanding of the law. The officer denied me because of a careless driving in early 09 , or so he said " Going to have to deny you for probable cause." Ive talked to my uncle which is a detective in another county and he couldn't believe it and started laughed said he would look into it. So basically does this make sense to anyone? Im looking at the brady act and im not falling under any of the categories.The Officer said i have the right to take it to Circuit court. The whole time he was doing this he was reading things off of the CCW list which isnt what i was applying for and i told him that.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated thanks
Troy

[anthonyt]

I dont
*Drink
*Smoke anything besides cigarettes

I have done alot of growing up. I love how people judge knowing nothing about me, shows alot about a person.
A friendly forum turns into a group of judgmental *****s in a matter of days.

You see that's the problem with carrying around criminal offenses... People tend to judge you based on your past behavior.

If I were the officer, I would have declined issuing the permit as well. An OWI within two years, and you were not even of legal drinking age. Also with a drug charge? You have only been an adult for two years and you have more on your rapsheet than most 35-45 year old people I know. You posted and asked for help. Even if you don't like what people are saying you have to take responsibility for your own actions.

You are probably a pretty good kid, now. But you need more time to distance yourself from the indiscretions of your past. We didn't get convicted for you. You did that all on your own. Accept responsibility and then you may find that a PP is easier to obtain.

[joepistol]

:yeahthat: Very well stated..Joepistol..:pistols:

[Keith Kania]

The problem is with your PAST immaturity/mistakes. On subjects like this, people will always give constructive criticism. It seems that you are paying for PAST mistakes. Your young and in the eyes of law enforcement, a reckless/careless driver who uses drugs. Show these officials that you are a good citizen, get a few letters of reference from good citizens, and prove yourself to your community.(And yes, you need to.) A second chance is always available and persistence usually pays dividends to those young individuals willing to step up. Only you can make this happen. Good Luck!

[Al Lowe]

From the MSP part of michigan.gov, I found the following.



(http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422)
Michigan - MCL 28.422 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422)
Probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state of the United States.
The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the Law Enforcement Information Network pursuant to any of the following:

MCL 330.1464a - Involuntary hospitalization or alternative treatment program
MCL 700.444a - Legally incapacitated (now MCL 700.5107)
MCL 600.2950 - Personal Protection Order

The Personal Protection Order must be active. Inactive PPOs will stay on file for five years for historical purposes.
MCL 600.2950a - Stalking
MCL 552.14 - Restraining Order
MCL 765.6b - Release subject to protective conditions
MCL 769.16b - Not guilty by reason of insanityUnder 18
Not a U.S. citizen or resident alien and a resident of Michigan
Prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, etc. under MCL 750.224f
Adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere, unless restored to sanity by court order
Under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness
Adjudged legally incapacitated
Unable to correctly answer 70% of the questions on the basic pistol safety questionnaire.




I don't see anything above that would preclude the OP from getting a permit to purchase. Unless there's something he's not told us.