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Knimrod
10-27-2005, 10:14 PM
Hidden threats: Handgun permits sweep country
Originally published on Thursday, October 27

By Luke Engan
CNHI News Service

OKLAHOMA CITY — In James Dark’s view, Texans have become better off in the 10 years since they began legally carrying handguns in public.

From Addison on the north side of Dallas, where Dark is executive director of the Texas State Rifle Association, he sees a drop in crime since 1995 when several states passed laws guaranteeing concealed carry permits to most citizens.

He pointed to a trend that gun control advocates have connected to assault rifle bans. Nationwide, serious violent crimes have dropped off since 1993, according to the U.S. Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics. The trend coincides with a change in laws to allow more concealed carry handgun permits.

Until 1987, just 10 states kept right-to-carry laws on the books.

That number has grown to 32 — and another two allow concealed weapons without permits.

Helping the cause, five lobbyists from the Texas State Rifle Association, Texas Gun Dealers Association, Inc., and the National Rifle Association’s policy arm are registered at the state Capitol in Austin, Texas. They face a less organized opposition.

In Oklahoma, no permits go to applicants who have attempted suicide, committed felonies, stalked, assaulted or been found guilty of illegal drug use. People in mental disability treatment, those guilty of misdemeanors that show “habitual criminal activity,” or with two or more public intoxication convictions need not apply.

After completing training, Oklahoma applicants give $100, two photos, two sets of fingerprints and a completed application form to a sheriff.

Considered among the strictest in states that issue handgun permits to most residents, Texas’ concealed carry restrictions call for a $140 fee, a full-day class and a written test in addition to a firing test.

But handgun permit holders in Texas were arrested more than 66 percent more often for weapon-related offenses than other adults in the state, according to Texas Department of Public Safety numbers.

New York keeps basic guidelines on handgun permits and gives counties freedom to set policies, said Larry Eggert, captain at the Lockport Police Department.

Niagara County issues permits on a must-carry basis, but nearby Erie County, which includes downtown Buffalo, does not allow people to carry concealed handguns unless they provide a special reason.

Paul Abel, a Shawnee gun instructor and retired sheriff, helped write Oklahoma’s concealed carry law. He said he has been “very pleased” with the result since the law was passed, but he would like to drop the age at which people can qualify for permits to 18. It is now 21.

Abel said one client of his had her purse snatched at a shopping mall. She chased down the assailant, recovered the purse and held the man down with her heel while she called police, he said. Another was approached by four armed gang members in a parking garage, he said.


Ensuring training

A recently passed federal law guarantees retired police officers the right to get permits to carry concealed weapons, with some exceptions.

Retired officers who faced discipline or sanctions from law enforcement agencies are barred from permits under the law, which supersedes state restrictions on handguns.

In four states, officials do not issue handgun permits to the general public.

The largest of these, Illinois, faces lobbying pressure from the state’s rifle association and concerns from police, said Ed Hoes, director of the Illinois Police Association in Elmwood Park.

Hoes is concerned that police in the state would face a more difficult job if citizens carried concealed weapons.

He said police cadets face more gun safety training than handgun permit applicants — and are bound to take it more seriously because the gun training is part of their career.

“There are people out there who know what they’re doing - but there are people who don’t,” Hoes said.

A favorite case for pistol permits, as concealed-carry licenses are sometimes called, is that some people think twice about committing a crime in public if they glance around and cannot tell who is carrying a gun.

Hoes said this already applies in Illinois, where a retired police officer could be nearby, carrying a firearm under plain clothes.

Like Maryland and New York, which issue very limited handgun permits, Illinois contains both large urban centers and rural hunting areas. But Hoes said police across the state have the same concern that a must-issue law could put hidden guns in the hands of people without proper training.


Ironing kinks

Oklahoma’s law, passed to allow handguns for “lawful self-defense and self-protection,” has seen about 42,000 gun owners licensed in its decade-long history, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.

The law requires applicants to complete an eight-hour course covering safety and how to shoot the type of gun the applicant intends to carry, which Brown said does not come close to the training requirements that police officers face.

Suzi Rouse of Oklahoma City said her training covered the legal ramifications of drawing her Beretta Tomcat 3032 in public.

In Oklahoma, licensed handgun owners cannot carry their weapon in government buildings, at public meetings, prisons, schools or sport events.

Since 1871, when Texas instituted its since-rescinded ban on concealed carries, the state has allowed guns for people traveling.

The traveling provision remained in effect after Texas’ must-issue handgun law, allowing some to carry guns without permits while traveling away from home where laws are different.

But Dark said the definition of traveling was out of date before another law recently took effect with updated guidelines.

“Basically, we’re looking at a law about guns in cars that was written before the car was invented,” Dark said.

House Bill 823, written by a former sheriff, defined travelers as people driving private vehicles, eligible for handgun permits and not a member of a state-defined street gang. They also must keep firearms out of view and not participate in criminal acts while carrying a gun.

A key part of the measure was that it shifted the burden of proof from gun owners to prosecutors, Dark said. Instead of mandating that people show that they are traveling, prosecutors must prove they are not.

Dark is concerned that officials in states with conditional permits might abuse the system, offering handgun permits based on fame or political connections.

“Every human being on the planet,” Dark said, “has an inherent right to defend ourselves.”

Link to story (http://www.claremoreprogress.com/archive/article22774)

Knimrod
10-27-2005, 10:19 PM
But handgun permit holders in Texas were arrested more than 66 percent more often for weapon-related offenses than other adults in the state, according to Texas Department of Public Safety numbers.

I loved this "statistic" originally published by VPC or the Brady bunch... It's like saying that people with drivers' licenses are more likely to be involved in driving related offenses than people without drivers' licenses. Sheesh...

One of Many
10-28-2005, 01:29 PM
This statistic also says that police are more likely to arrest an otherwise law abiding citizen with a firearm, that they are likely to arrest a criminal with a firearm.

As I understand it, the Texas law requires 100% concealment. Any accidental exposure puts the carrier at risk of arrest. If the wind blows your coat open, or you bend over and the coat or shirt rides up to expose a part of the firearm, you can be arrested. It has nothing to do with improper use of the firearm to threaten or intimidate someone else.

froggly
04-07-2009, 06:22 AM
if you go into these states like Illinois i wonder how many friends of friends have permits to carry. it is who you know that counts I AM SURE. To take care of these states maybe a law that says if you have no more reason than a normal citizen for your permit then you are guilty of a felony!!!!! along with the person who got it for you. then you are fired with no pension and no health care for life!!!


jump on this
Froggly