Waiting period to sell?

[1911AO]

I just bought a pistol from a dealer a little over a month ago is there a certain amount of time i have to wait before i can sell it via private sale?

[shurhouse]

I just bought a pistol from a dealer a little over a month ago is there a certain amount of time i have to wait before i can sell it via private sale?

None

[bad86ta]

None

yep, that covers it...

[ranttrmike]

Technically there is no waiting period to sell any gun, but if you sell to a person who is 18-20, you may have someone knocking on your door and asking questions.

FFL holders (gun dealers) can sell a gun to anyone 21+ years of age. If you turn around and sell that gun to someone 18-20 shortly after buying it, they may let it go once or twice, but they will question it. There is a problem with people acting like the "middle man" for others.

[Leader]

Technically there is no waiting period to sell any gun, but if you sell to a person who is 18-20, you may have someone knocking on your door and asking questions.

FFL holders (gun dealers) can sell a gun to anyone 21+ years of age. If you turn around and sell that gun to someone 18-20 shortly after buying it, they may let it go once or twice, but they will question it. There is a problem with people acting like the "middle man" for others.

To the best of my knowledge, this has NEVER happened.

Could you provide a verifiable link to when it has?
Or... is this just another "The sky is falling" story?

[pkuptruck]

I just bought a pistol from a dealer a little over a month ago is there a certain amount of time i have to wait before i can sell it via private sale?

I beleive the legal requirement is ... when the ink is dry on your paperwork...:brow:

[1911AO]

Thanks everyone I figured there wasnt

[smac61]

None

Limited by the time it takes to complete the first sale and fill out the forms on the second sale...

Personally, I'd wait a few days after I turn in my paper work to make sure the second sale doesn't get processed ahead of the first, but not necessary.

[zigziggityzoo]

Since every pistol sale in Michigan (private and public) get a NICS check to complete the transaction - I'd say it's pretty much impossible to do a straw sale of a pistol in-state.

[zigziggityzoo]

State law requires a "transaction" take place to transfer a pistol to someone else. Even if you bought it as a gift for your 19-year-old son, they still have to "buy" it from you for $0 and you fill your information out as a seller on the purchase permit.

If ATF ever came and asked, tell them bought it as a gift, or changed your mind after taking it to the range and didn't like it. They likely can't prove otherwise.

[ranttrmike]

To the best of my knowledge, this has NEVER happened.

Could you provide a verifiable link to when it has?
Or... is this just another "The sky is falling" story?

Damn there's a lot of doubters on here. I don't do "THE SKY IS FALLING" posts.

In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.
Beginning in 1975, BATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser (Straw purchase). This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "Straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.[1]
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.[2]
Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.[3]
Another example of an illegal straw purchase involves alcohol; these purchases are particularly common as persons under the drinking age frequently request that a person above the legal age purchase alcohol for them. If intent can be proven, this action is illegal and punishable according to state and federal law.

[ranttrmike]

State law requires a "transaction" take place to transfer a pistol to someone else. Even if you bought it as a gift for your 19-year-old son, they still have to "buy" it from you for $0 and you fill your information out as a seller on the purchase permit.

If ATF ever came and asked, tell them bought it as a gift, or changed your mind after taking it to the range and didn't like it. They likely can't prove otherwise.


According to what I just posted above, if you "bought it as a gift" you lied on the form, and you have committed a felony, but the law goes on to contradict itself. I wouldn't go that route with my story.

If you took it to the range and didn't like it, that's probably legal.

You need to read those nifty forms you fill out, or go to jail.

[zigziggityzoo]

According to what I just posted above, if you "bought it as a gift" you lied on the form, and you have committed a felony.

If you took it to the range and didn't like it, that's probably legal.

You need to read those nifty forms you fill out, or go to jail.

Purchasing as a gift is a legal action.

[ranttrmike]

Purchasing as a gift is a legal action.

Note I just edited my post. Yes it says it's valid, but it also has a slight contradiction to it.

I wouldnt use that story. But thats just me.

[Leader]

Damn there's a lot of doubters on here. I don't do "THE SKY IS FALLING" posts.

In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.
Beginning in 1975, BATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser (Straw purchase). This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "Straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.[1]
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.[2]
Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.[3]
Another example of an illegal straw purchase involves alcohol; these purchases are particularly common as persons under the drinking age frequently request that a person above the legal age purchase alcohol for them. If intent can be proven, this action is illegal and punishable according to state and federal law.

Doesn't seem to me that they are talking about a legal sale to anothrt person that may legally buy a gun.

[ranttrmike]

Doesn't seem to me that they are talking about a legal sale to anothrt person that may legally buy a gun.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

I said that if you buy a gun with the intent to resell it to someone 18-20 years old..even if they can legally buy it from you, it is not legal.

I never categorized it as "another person that may legally buy a gun", I was very specific.

[Leader]

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

I said that if you buy a gun with the intent to resell it to someone 18-20 years old..even if they can legally buy it from you, it is not legal.

I never categorized it as "another person that may legally buy a gun", I was very specific.

And just exactly what makes it illegal?

[ranttrmike]

And just exactly what makes it illegal?

Can you not read what I posted?

I quote the sentence "straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no"

The key words are "straw purchase" and "felony".

IF YOU purchase a gun FOR someone else (buy it, turn around and sell it to them) WHETHER a legal transaction or not, you are a "straw purchaser". Hence by the "" above, you are guilty of a felony.

I believe this makes it clear enough and SHOULD NOT require further clarification.

[ranttrmike]

And just exactly what makes it illegal?

Can you not read what I posted?

I quote the sentence "straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no"

The key words are "straw purchase" and "felony".

IF YOU purchase a gun FOR someone else (buy it, turn around and sell it to them) WHETHER a legal transaction or not, you are a "straw purchaser". Hence by the "" above, you are guilty of a felony.

I believe this makes it clear enough and SHOULD NOT require further clarification.

[zigziggityzoo]

EDIT: eh forget this. Done with the convo.

[Leader]

Can you not read what I posted?

I quote the sentence "straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no"

The key words are "straw purchase" and "felony".

IF YOU purchase a gun FOR someone else (buy it, turn around and sell it to them) WHETHER a legal transaction or not, you are a "straw purchaser". Hence by the "" above, you are guilty of a felony.

I believe this makes it clear enough and SHOULD NOT require further clarification.


I said that if you buy a gun with the intent to resell it to someone 18-20 years old..even if they can legally buy it from you, it is not legal.



Damn there's a lot of doubters on here. I don't do "THE SKY IS FALLING" posts.

In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.
Beginning in 1975, BATF officials apparently reached a judgment that a dealer who sells to a legitimate purchaser may nonetheless be subject to prosecution or license revocation if he knows that that individual intends to transfer the firearm to a nonresident or other unqualified purchaser (Straw purchase). This position was never published in the Federal Register and is indeed contrary to indications which Bureau officials had given Congress, that such sales were not in violation of existing law. Rather than informing dealers of this distinction, ATF agents set out to produce mass arrests upon these "Straw purchase" sale charges, sending out undercover agents to entice dealers into transfers of this type.[1]
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.[2]
Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.[3]
Another example of an illegal straw purchase involves alcohol; these purchases are particularly common as persons under the drinking age frequently request that a person above the legal age purchase alcohol for them. If intent can be proven, this action is illegal and punishable according to state and federal law.

I don't see anything in that that says you can't make a legal sale to someone 18 - 21 or anyone else for that matter.

Again, what makes you think a private sale to someone 18 - 21 is illegal?

[ranttrmike]

I don't see anything in that that says you can't make a legal sale to someone 18 - 21 or anyone else for that matter.

Again, what makes you think a private sale to someone 18 - 21 is illegal?


Ok, can you not comprehend the words I am saying Leader?

YOU CAN SELL TO SOMEONE 18-21 YEARS OF AGE, my POINT was that if you act as a STRAW SALESMAN, it is illegal.

Yes, I can sell my pistol to an 18 year old who has a PP.

NO I CANNOT GO BUY A GUN, TURN AROUND AND RESELL IT BEFORE THE INK IS DRY TO AN UNDER 21 YEAR OLD PERSON.

You really don't read or comprehend well do you?

DONE replying to you. Have nice day.

[1911AO]

wow didnt mean to start a whole debate but thanks to those who replied. I wasnt selling it to a felon or someone under 21. I was wondering though how many guns can u buy and sell before you have to be a licensed dealer? or do you only have to if you want to ship/ recieve firearms?

[dpgperftest]

Ok, can you not comprehend the words I am saying Leader?

YOU CAN SELL TO SOMEONE 18-21 YEARS OF AGE, my POINT was that if you act as a STRAW SALESMAN, it is illegal.

Yes, I can sell my pistol to an 18 year old who has a PP.

NO I CANNOT GO BUY A GUN, TURN AROUND AND RESELL IT BEFORE THE INK IS DRY TO AN UNDER 21 YEAR OLD PERSON.

You really don't read or comprehend well do you?

DONE replying to you. Have nice day.
You asked a question no need to make it a personnel attack SHEEEEH

[Tyler]

According to what I just posted above, if you "bought it as a gift" you lied on the form, and you have committed a felony, but the law goes on to contradict itself. I wouldn't go that route with my story.

If you took it to the range and didn't like it, that's probably legal.

You need to read those nifty forms you fill out, or go to jail.


The form asks if you are the purchaser, not if you are purchasing it for yourself if I remember correctly. There is a difference between buying a gun as a gift with your money, and taking money from an 18-20 year old, and buying a gun with it, just to transfer it to them.

[Garbo]

I can see where he is going with this. A straw purchase being a purchase for another who cannot legally purchase on their own (long and short).

He is saying that an 18-20 year old cannot legally buy that firearm on their own. So you would then be a straw purchaser by purchasing it for them since they cannot legally purchase it themselves.

So by saying you are buying it for them you are admitting this. So basicly use another reason for the quick transfer. Didnt like it, found something better etc etc because they can legally buy a gun from you.