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Knimrod
12-06-2005, 11:44 PM
Conceal-carry again draws fire
Ahead of Tuesday vote, some say bill needs fixes
December 5, 2005
By Andy Nelesen, Green Bap Press Gazette

Even as a bill to allow Wisconsin residents to carry concealed weapons goes to a vote in the state Senate Tuesday, the debate carries on among supporters, opponents and those somewhere in the middle.

A recent amendment to the Personal Protection Act — which would allow law enforcement officers to know if a vehicle owner has a conceal-carry permit and penalties for officers who abuse that information — garnered the support of the Wisconsin Troopers Association last week, adding momentum to the measure as it goes to the Republican-controlled Senate.

A similar bill in 2003 passed the Senate and Assembly but was vetoed by Gov. Jim Doyle. Assembly lawmakers fell one vote short of the two-thirds vote needed to override the governor's veto. Doyle has said he would also veto the current bill.

For supporters, like Henry Rahr of Ashwaubenon, it boils down to a law-abiding citizen having the tools to defend himself, not a precursor to a cowboy mentality.

"Forty-six states have provisions for conceal carry," Rahr said. "When you look at all the other states and years of information that has been compiled from all the states that have (conceal carry), this so-called wild-west showdown never occurs.

"It is an emotional type of decision here in Wisconsin, that I can understand, but if you take the emotion out of it and look at the pure numbers and facts, conceal carry does reduce crime in the states that do have that provision."

Wisconsin's legislation would grant a permit to a person 21 or older, with a clear background and certification from an approved firearms training course.

The current version of the bill bans people from carrying guns and other weapons in bars, police stations, child-care centers, domestic violence shelters, churches, health-care facilities and schools.

Those opposed to the legislation point to law enforcement's limited access to the list of permit holders and training certification issues as primary hurdles.

Brown County Sheriff Dennis Kocken said he is not opposed to the concept of citizen conceal carry, but said there are problems with the bill as written.

"Most of the sheriffs in Wisconsin are against the law as it's currently proposed," Kocken said. "The main reason is the legislators drafting the thing have refused to talk to any of the sheriffs or chiefs and get their opinion as to what they think.

"I'm not opposed to it, but let's do it right," Kocken said. "As it's proposed, we haven't gotten it right."

Kocken pointed to access to information about who has a permit — beyond owners of vehicles — and how that information is disseminated. Kocken said he is not a fan of keeping permit holders' names secret.

"Why can't it be a public record?" Kocken said.

The bill's creators have insisted the list of permit holders remain secret to ensure criminals don't prey on people who aren't carrying.

Green Bay Police Chief Craig Van Schyndle said he too is not deadset against conceal carry, but tabbed objections to the proposed legislation.

Training is one of his biggest stumbling blocks.

"There's only one-time qualification with this weapon, whatever weapon (a person) is carrying and then it goes on forever, where a police officer needs to qualify four times a year," Van Schyndle said. "That is just one of the many problems we have with the bill."

Van Schyndle echoed Kocken's concerns on the amount of input police chiefs and sheriffs have had on the bill.

"Instead of trying to work together, it seems like the drafters of the bill just put it together without talking to law enforcement," Van Schyndle said. "It would have gotten a lot farther a lot quicker if they would have gotten law enforcement involved.

Sen. David Zien, R-Eau Claire, in a release issued late last week, hoped the current compromise would address some of those issues.

"Representative Gunderson and I have said from the beginning that we were willing to work with law enforcement and others to improve the Personal Protection Act," Zien said. "This amendment shows a good faith effort on our part to work with groups and individuals who are sincere in trying to pass the best bill possible."

Van Schyndle would not rule out support for the bill, both from him personally and from other police chiefs.

"I think there is a possibility of changes where they may gain the support of the Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association," Van Schyndle said. "It would depend on all the different factors. It's not out of realm of possibility that I would support it if a lot of control factors were placed on the bill."

Personal Protection Act supporter Tom Driessen of Kaukauna said he does not object to discussion and compromise on the issue.

"There's compromise in everything," said Driessen, who along with his wife has taken a firearms course that allows him to qualify for a conceal carry permit in Minnesota.

"I'm not saying I want to have a gun on my hip all the time," Driessen said. "But if I am traveling in a high-crime area, I want to be able to protect my wife and family and have the gun in the car with me. (Conceal carry) would allow me to do that versus not having the option.

"Would I do it all the time? I seriously doubt it, but I would like the option."

Link to story (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051205/GPG0101/512050405/1206/GPGnews)

paddy
12-07-2005, 06:42 AM
Go Wisconsin!

I wish them luck that they will get it passed this time around.

Divegeek
12-07-2005, 09:16 AM
I hear there permits would also have a picture of a badger, and a wheel of cheese on them.

Seriously though if it wasn't for one stinking turncoat last year during the veto override vote they would already have it. I wonder if this new proposal has a reciprocity provision.....

goldwing2000
12-07-2005, 09:51 AM
"There's only one-time qualification with this weapon, whatever weapon (a person) is carrying and then it goes on forever, where a police officer needs to qualify four times a year," Van Schyndle said. "That is just one of the many problems we have with the bill."

Yeah... that's a good comparison. :roll:

So if they follow the police training requirements, would that mean they are allowed to have police weapons?

Scoop
12-08-2005, 03:17 PM
A recent amendment to the Personal Protection Act — which would allow law enforcement officers to know if a vehicle owner has a conceal-carry permit and penalties for officers who abuse that information — garnered the support of the Wisconsin Troopers Association last week, adding momentum to the measure as it goes to the Republican-controlled Senate. Before I step out of the patrol car, I know if the registered owner of a vehicle has a CPL.
Abuse of LEIN results in criminal charges against a police officer.
I see no problem with LE having access during a traffic stop.