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Shrek24
05-20-2011, 12:18 AM
I like to hunt. Problem is I am no good at it. I have a couple questions regarding the new laws pertaining to hunting. We usually go to gladwin or manistee on state land. Is it true that bait is no longer allowed? Also is hunting with a pistol allowed?

Leader
05-20-2011, 03:39 AM
I like to hunt. Problem is I am no good at it. I have a couple questions regarding the new laws pertaining to hunting. We usually go to gladwin or manistee on state land. Is it true that bait is no longer allowed? Also is hunting with a pistol allowed?

Baiting was suspended for a few years but *might* be allowed again this year, check the rules after the June meeting.
Yes, pistols are allowed. In the shotgun zone they must be .35 cal or larger.

RevDerb
05-20-2011, 04:52 AM
You can read all of the rules for yourself here. http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363---,00.html that way you won't have to depend on what other people "think" or "believe." :thumbup:

JohnJak
05-20-2011, 06:14 AM
Hunting Rules:

If it flies it dies.
If it's brown it's down.

:-)

sullyxlh
05-20-2011, 08:28 AM
Your either hunting or your baiting
you ain't doing both.

Ruger
05-20-2011, 09:02 AM
I'd start with a mentor! You've already ID'ed the problem! You suck at hunting!

To bad everyone didn't have a Great Uncle that made sure he passed on his knowledge. Mine taught me just enough to keep me interested and it grew from there.

Read till your eyes bleed and then read some more! Get hooked up with someone that takes hunting and stewardship of the outdoors seriously and you'll learn mucho! :heybuddy:

Almostnoddedoff
05-22-2011, 07:04 AM
Your either hunting or your baiting
you ain't doing both.

Don't you mean, you are either hunting for game or waiting for game to come to you because ain't doing both?

Long gone are the days when guys went hunting for a meal. Now days, most deer hunters have to sit and wait do they not?

Roundballer
05-22-2011, 10:15 AM
Don't you mean, you are either hunting for game or waiting for game to come to you because ain't doing both?
No.... With baiting the "hunter" has created an artificial influence on the games' behavior. There is no hunting involved, the game is enticed to come to you.

In hunting, the hunter will track the game, he will discover the ruts, rubs, feeding and bedding areas. The hunter will make determinations, from the terrain and from his observations, the best place to be at the right time of the day to take the quarry. He will take that position and wait for the game.

The hunter also has the option of trailing game. In this, the hunter will find fresh sign and try to track the animal until the hunter is close enough for a clean kill.


Long gone are the days when guys went hunting for a meal. Now days, most deer hunters have to sit and wait do they not?
I believe that you are mostly correct in this sentiment. Just the shear numbers out on state property precludes moving around too much without disturbing the other "hunters". Those on private land are also constrained by the limitations of the boundaries of the property.

Because baiting has been allowed in the past (and other reasons), the skill sets that are required to trail and track, and to truly hunt, are being lost. The "hunters" today depend more on technology, and put more effort into being comfortable in the blind than they do hunting the quarry.

bone
05-22-2011, 10:37 AM
No.... With baiting the "hunter" has created an artificial influence on the games' behavior. There is no hunting involved, the game is enticed to come to you.

.

so in your opinion anyone using bait
ie... carrots, food plots, acorns, doe estrus, artificial scrapes.. anything else that makes your particular spot more appealing to the deer are not hunting? :laugh:
or is it just the people that cant afford a piece of land so they use bagged veggies to succeed on small peices of state land?

Roundballer
05-22-2011, 02:24 PM
so in your opinion anyone using bait
ie... carrots, food plots, acorns, doe estrus, artificial scrapes.. anything else that makes your particular spot more appealing to the deer are not hunting? :laugh:
or is it just the people that cant afford a piece of land so they use bagged veggies to succeed on small peices of state land?

By definition and in reality Baiting and Hunting are different.
This is not a matter of opinion or just semantics.
The use of something to lure game to you is baiting in one form or another.
This has nothing to do with the land that may be available to an individual, or what they can or cannot afford.
Baiting is not limited to just deer, and many species are not baited, they are hunted.


bait 1 (bt)
v. bait·ed, bait·ing, baits
v.tr.
1. To place a lure in (a trap) or on (a fishing hook).
2. To entice, especially by trickery or strategy.
3. To set dogs upon (a chained animal, for example) for sport.
4. To attack or torment, especially with persistent insults, criticism, or ridicule.
5. To tease.
6. To feed (an animal), especially on a journey.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bait


hunt (hnt)
v. hunt·ed, hunt·ing, hunts
v.tr.
1. To pursue (game) for food or sport.
2. To search through (an area) for prey: hunted the ridges.
3. To make use of (hounds, for example) in pursuing game.
4. To pursue intensively so as to capture or kill: hunted down the escaped convict.
5. To seek out; search for.
6. To drive out forcibly, especially by harassing; chase away: hunted the newcomers out of town.
v.intr.
1. To pursue game.
2. To make a search; seek.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hunt


The State regulates the end result of both... the kill or taking of game.
The State regulates baiting, and defines it as an "aid in hunting" (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141_37705-250077--,00.html).
In the States' regulations, there are limitations on when, where, how, and quantity for both baiting and feeding activities.
The State does not regulate the actual hunt for game.
You may trail, track, observe, or just about anything you wish, short of "harassing" wildlife.
You may do this any day of the year, any year.
You just have to stay within regulations for the "taking" of game.


I do have my own personal opinions about baiting, but I have not, nor will I, express them in this thread. It just irks me, as pointed out in post#5, that people use the terms synonymously. Baiting is not Hunting, they are different actions, with the same intended end result.

ranttrmike
05-23-2011, 05:31 AM
I like to hunt. Problem is I am no good at it. I have a couple questions regarding the new laws pertaining to hunting. We usually go to gladwin or manistee on state land. Is it true that bait is no longer allowed? Also is hunting with a pistol allowed?

The laws are in the hunting handbook, or the link posted. Read them, don't take advice...99% of what you hear here may be right, but that 1% will get you in trouble.

I see you're from Royal Oak...I was from the Warren area, now living in the Midland area.

You're problem isn't baiting, nor is it "a bad area", the problem is that you probably never get up here during the spring/summer/early fall to scout. Scouting isn't a 1 day every now and then thing, my guess is that as fall approaches you probably make only 1 trip...see some deer, and decide thats where you need to hunt.

I'm also guessing that you never leave a road or trail by more than 100 yards, or you find a well used deer run and follow it, then pick a comfy spot along it and throw up your portable blind and wait...

You will get deer that way, but not often.

I hunt state land here, a tiny tract that is overrun with hunters, and I get 2 deer every year, and I pick my buck, I don't shoot the first thing I see.

The difference is that I scout it, heavily. I hunt small game there, I walk it a lot during the summer, and I pay attention. I know it, I know where the deer move, what direction, and the time of day they are headed in what direction, and WHY.

Honestly, if you want deer on state land, don't bait. Let the other fools bait. The deer come in at night and eat that, not during the day (much). During the day they are doing other things. In the morning/evening, they are near the bait, on the fringes, waiting for dark to eat.

Find a spot 1 mile or more into the woods, away from everyone else. Get there at 5am (2 hours before sun-up), sit quiet, don't move, use your senses, and let the other hunters come in and drive the deer to you. They will be there 15 minutes before sun up making noise like their parking at Walmart for a day of shopping.

Don't leave for lunch, eat in the woods. I cook good meals out there. Dress appropriate so you don't freeze or sweat, and dedicate a full week (or more) to the hunt. Opening day isn't a "do or die" situation. Then don't leave until FULL dark.

If you can't scout it properly, if you can't get intimately familiar with the land, pick a close place to home and make that commitment. Deer are everywhere in MI.

If you need a mentor, and you want to learn, ask around with successful "real" hunters, not opening day warriors, or ask me. Remember, hunting isn't a "thing you do", or a sport you can partake in once a year, it's a lifestyle. Commit to it if you really want it.

lwout65
05-23-2011, 12:47 PM
I like to hunt. Problem is I am no good at it. I have a couple questions regarding the new laws pertaining to hunting. We usually go to gladwin or manistee on state land. Is it true that bait is no longer allowed? Also is hunting with a pistol allowed?

Personaly i hate hunting over bait always have unless on private land and have no room to move. Plus if you bait state land when the law permits you will find hunters cutting off your bait pile.

I am going to go this next rifle seasion first time in three years due to a broken back and surgery.
BTW ill be in Gladwin on 61 and deer road dont go there unless your willing to drive the woods for an old gimpy man lol.

Venator12
05-23-2011, 02:54 PM
By definition and in reality Baiting and Hunting are different.
This is not a matter of opinion or just semantics.
The use of something to lure game to you is baiting in one form or another.
This has nothing to do with the land that may be available to an individual, or what they can or cannot afford.
Baiting is not limited to just deer, and many species are not baited, they are hunted.


bait 1 (bt)
v. bait·ed, bait·ing, baits
v.tr.
1. To place a lure in (a trap) or on (a fishing hook).
2. To entice, especially by trickery or strategy.
3. To set dogs upon (a chained animal, for example) for sport.
4. To attack or torment, especially with persistent insults, criticism, or ridicule.
5. To tease.
6. To feed (an animal), especially on a journey.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bait


hunt (hnt)
v. hunt·ed, hunt·ing, hunts
v.tr.
1. To pursue (game) for food or sport.
2. To search through (an area) for prey: hunted the ridges.
3. To make use of (hounds, for example) in pursuing game.
4. To pursue intensively so as to capture or kill: hunted down the escaped convict.
5. To seek out; search for.
6. To drive out forcibly, especially by harassing; chase away: hunted the newcomers out of town.
v.intr.
1. To pursue game.
2. To make a search; seek.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hunt


The State regulates the end result of both... the kill or taking of game.
The State regulates baiting, and defines it as an "aid in hunting" (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141_37705-250077--,00.html).
In the States' regulations, there are limitations on when, where, how, and quantity for both baiting and feeding activities.
The State does not regulate the actual hunt for game.
You may trail, track, observe, or just about anything you wish, short of "harassing" wildlife.
You may do this any day of the year, any year.
You just have to stay within regulations for the "taking" of game.


I do have my own personal opinions about baiting, but I have not, nor will I, express them in this thread. It just irks me, as pointed out in post#5, that people use the terms synonymously. Baiting is not Hunting, they are different actions, with the same intended end result.

Like using decoys for geese and ducks, or turkeys, or even deer?? How about crows, coyotes and other predators???

Leader
05-23-2011, 02:59 PM
Like using decoys for geese and ducks, or turkeys, or even deer?? How about crows, coyotes and other predators???

Real hunters hunt with a knife.
Sneak up & STAB'EM!!!!!!!!!!

ranttrmike
05-23-2011, 07:33 PM
Real hunters hunt with a knife.
Sneak up & STAB'EM!!!!!!!!!!
A very funny, long story here...but real hunters drown them!

Deadman2000
05-23-2011, 09:28 PM
I don't shoot the first thing I see.

Ha ha I did that last year. I passed up a 4 pt during bow season for the 6pt behind him. The 6 pt never came out in the open and both got away. During rifle season I was watching about 8 does in a field. I figured a buck had to be close behind. Nope never saw another deer all season. lol

maricar
05-28-2011, 05:40 AM
aint the rules differ by countries?

ranttrmike
05-28-2011, 09:09 AM
aint the rules differ by countries?
By countries? We were only talking about one state, I would imagine that different countries have their own rules.

If you meant Counties, no, except for non-Sunday hunting, certain cities you can't hunt in, and the rile/shotgun line, and special hunting areas.

This is why it's very, very important to pick up the hunting guide or look at it online, study it hard, and know what you are doing.

Tyler
05-28-2011, 10:53 AM
Where I hunt, it is pretty much impossible to see deer now. Not only have wolves made a HUGE dent in the population, but everybody and their brother baits! Also a lot of year round poachers, or so I suspect.


The worst part is, the baiting is legal in the upper, where I hunt!

ranttrmike
05-28-2011, 07:47 PM
Where I hunt, it is pretty much impossible to see deer now. Not only have wolves made a HUGE dent in the population, but everybody and their brother baits! Also a lot of year round poachers, or so I suspect.


The worst part is, the baiting is legal in the upper, where I hunt!
What part of the upper? Where/when I go up there, I can see 20 deer a day (as of last season), and pass hundreds standing in potato fields...

If you're talking eastern/NE part of the UP, there never have been many there. I hunted near Teq. Falls and saw 1 in 4 days.

Bo Beaver
05-29-2011, 08:52 PM
When using a handgun in the SHOTGUN zone, you must use a straightwall case with a caliber over .35 And an ammo capacity less than 9 rounds in the magazine. In the rifle zone, you can use anything except a .22 or under rimfire rifle/pistol. That's my understanding of the handbook.

sullyxlh
05-30-2011, 08:24 AM
...This is why it's very, very important to pick up the hunting guide or look at it online, study it hard, and know what you are doing.
Also keep in mind it's is just that, a guide..


From the DNR site-
"This brochure is not a legal notice or a complete collection of hunting regulations and laws.
It is a condensed guide issued for hunters' convenience.
Copies of Wildlife Conservation Orders can be obtained from our website."

Hunting guide (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10371_14724-148682--,00.html)

Wildlife Conservation Orders (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141-120756--,00.html)






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