what streight wall cartridge?

[bone]

still looking into a contender handgun to use below the shotgun line for deer this year

per the law it has to be a straight wall cart. 45-70 is too much for me. 444 marlin is a maybe.

leaning heavy towards the 44 mag. anyone have a cartridge option im missing?

[my-handyman]

.357 mag, .357Max, .375win are a few

[wadevb1]

If zone 3 opens up straight wall long guns I will entertain an Encore barrel in .460 S&W or 454 casull.

[badman]

i have a nef 500 mag. that would be an option. though a large hole it will make. lol.

also dont forget the 45 colt. i got one of those taurus circuit judges and they throw 45 colt rounds great. i was suprised at the accuracy. it is also a 410 shotgun so you would have options. i load 4 000 buck in a 410 shell and they would do a great job.

thanks wade. lol

[Ol` Joe]

I always found it odd one could hunt deer with a 357 or 44 mag pistol or shoot varmints with a 30-06 if you want, but a Ruger 44 mag carbine or a 30cal M1 was taboo at deer season.
The 45Lc or 44 make a good short range pistol cartridge for deer or maybe a 41 mag or 10mm would be more your style. The 357 will work but I would prefer a little more bullet weight. The 454 or 460 are great rounds and the 500 S&W would definitely do the job. No matter what cartridge you decide on the limiting factor will be range more then killing power. All the big bore straight walled rds have a trajectory similar to a modern shotgun slug.

[gman]

still looking into a contender handgun to use below the shotgun line for deer this year

per the law it has to be a straight wall cart. 45-70 is too much for me. 444 marlin is a maybe.

leaning heavy towards the 44 mag. anyone have a cartridge option im missing?

My stepson's 10" Contender barrel in 45/70 is not much more of a recoil than my 15" Encore barrel in .444 is, also unless you reload for the 444 Contender barrel, the factory 444 loads are on the hot side for the Contender. Some people won't shoot factory loads through it and some say no problem...just be careful.

Some mentioned cal's are a no-no in the Contender, I'm pretty sure .460 and .500 are not a go since T/C recommends trapdoor pressures for the Contender barrels. Look into an Encore platform and you can shoot any of the straight wall cartridges.

[Phelptwan]

Wait...so .45-70 is acceptable?

[gman]

Wait...so .45-70 is acceptable?

Absolutely, go to any classifieds like gunbroker.com or graybearoutdoors and you will find lots of T/C factory barrels in 45-70 for sale, but they stopped making the .444 barrels from the factory years ago because the pressures of factory ammo pushes the limits of the Contender. Heres the barrels that MGM will chamber a Contender in safely (only cal's not in italics) Notice that the 444, 454, 460, & 500 they will not chamber for the Contender but the 45-70 is ok.

http://www.matchgrademachine.com/chamberings_public.php

Gary

[bone]

Wait...so .45-70 is acceptable?

for deer hunting? yes. handguns must be 35 cal or larger and have a streight wall cartridge below the shotgun line.

doesnt say it has to be a factory "handgun" cartridge

[GarrettJ]

I always found it odd one could hunt deer with a 357 or 44 mag pistol or shoot varmints with a 30-06 if you want, but a Ruger 44 mag carbine or a 30cal M1 was taboo at deer season...
Keep in mind how MI defines a "pistol". If you can put a folding stock on a rifle and bring the folded length down to less than 30", but still greater than 26", it is a "pistol" as defined by state law.

The .30 Carbine is too small of a caliber, and I'm not aware of any folders for the Ruger .44 carbine, but you can get a folder for a T/C Contender or Encore. Even with a rifle-length barrel, you are in "pistol" configuration as far as the state is concerned, and legal to hunt. If I thought about it long enough, I could probably come up with a few other "MI Pistols" that shoot a straight-wall cartridge of .35 cal or greater.

[SlowDog]

What kills me is my 45 cal. new inline muzzy out shoots my 30-30 and 444 marlin yet I can use it anywhere in the "shotgun zone". I am convinced lawmakers are idiots.....just sayin....

[Ol` Joe]

Keep in mind how MI defines a "pistol". If you can put a folding stock on a rifle and bring the folded length down to less than 30", but still greater than 26", it is a "pistol" as defined by state law.

The .30 Carbine is too small of a caliber, and I'm not aware of any folders for the Ruger .44 carbine, but you can get a folder for a T/C Contender or Encore. Even with a rifle-length barrel, you are in "pistol" configuration as far as the state is concerned, and legal to hunt. If I thought about it long enough, I could probably come up with a few other "MI Pistols" that shoot a straight-wall cartridge of .35 cal or greater.



Firearm used aside, you can shoot a deer legally in the lower half with a Ruger SB in 44 mag, but can not shoot deer with the same cartridge in a Ruger carbine. You can however shoot small game with the same carbine in the same area that you can`t shoot deer.
A Encore in 47-70 is legal but a Marlin lever in the same chambering isn`t.
I can shoot a groundhog or fox with a 243 or 7mm mag if I want in a handgun chambered for them in the lower half. Why then can`t I shoot a deer with the same 243 or 7mm handgun?
Why can`t I use the same rifle I can legally shoot a G-hog or fox with to shoot deer?

I`ve no problem with the platform used, the Savage "Striker", Remington XP100, TC Contender/Encore, Weatherby "Silhouette", etc along with a couple revolvers and semi autos, can be made to shoot acceptable straight walled cartridges. Most are factory chambered for bottlenecks that are legal in a rifle for small game hunting or target shooting in the lower 1/2 of the mitt but, illegal to shoot deer with there.
One can shoot any small game in the state with a rifle or pistol in 458 Win mag. I can use the same 458 rifle on any big game in the northern half of the lower and UP, but I have to chamber the cartridge in a pistol to legally shoot deer in the lower? It is legal due to the diameter of the bullet and straight walls of the case, but the same pistol in 30-30 isn`t because the case is bottlenecked?
Come on......makes not a lick of sense.

[SlowDog]

I'd give plenty to sit in a room with those idiots and a 100 of us and actually have them explain their reasoning. And then qualify it...

[bone]

hmmm...... a 12 guage thats 27 inches is a mich pistol that shoots a streight wall cartridge and is 35 cal or larger. :whacko:

[swaker3333]

45-70 has fantastic results with this load http://www.hornady.com/store/45-70-Government-250-GR-MONOFLEX/ . This is what my buddy uses out of a contender. This year I'll be using 10mm and 454 casull, both have more then acceptable penetration and expansion on deer.


Edit to add: I also hear that 45lc is pretty good.

[725franky]

Anyone try a .50 Beowulf AR 'pistol' for deer?
I'm getting tired of trying to get a muzzleloader to shoot good consistently (and still perform properly). So I'm starting to think about the options of an accurate pistol... The other way I was thinking was an Encore pistol in .444 Marlin built by David White; as I've heard good things about his builds.

[Tom Fineis]

I contemplated this same idea and ended with the idea of buying a 454 Cassull. I could down load it with 45 Colt loads for short range deer and pigs, and upload it as heavy as I wanted if I ever had the chance to hunt larger game with it. Seems pretty versatile to me.

That said, it's hard to go wrong with 44 mag too. Extremely popular and there is a ton of ammo, loading components, data, and firearms that will shoot it.

[TomE]

Keep in mind how MI defines a "pistol". If you can put a folding stock on a rifle and bring the folded length down to less than 30", but still greater than 26", it is a "pistol" as defined by state law.

The .30 Carbine is too small of a caliber, and I'm not aware of any folders for the Ruger .44 carbine, but you can get a folder for a T/C Contender or Encore. Even with a rifle-length barrel, you are in "pistol" configuration as far as the state is concerned, and legal to hunt. If I thought about it long enough, I could probably come up with a few other "MI Pistols" that shoot a straight-wall cartridge of .35 cal or greater.

Can you explain why a 30 Carbine is too small a caliber ? Sensibly ,and with numbers and ballistics to back up your statements

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm

967 ft lbs of Muzzle energy sounds OK ,not great

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/english-ballistics-chart-2010.pdf

the 44 mag has a range of 999 M.E. down to 960 M.E.,effectively the same OK , but not great

[TAC]

In a pistol lenght barrel, I think the .44MAG is your best all around choice. Ammo is less expensive, more commonly available, comes in a big variety of loads and bullets, performs well on Michigan deer.

[sparkman10mm]

If zone 3 opens up straight wall long guns I will entertain an Encore barrel in .460 S&W or 454 casull.
Yep, me too
Get the 460...you can fire 454's, and 45LC also...

[TomE]

I use my 30/06 in Rem 7600 pump rifle in Zone 3 , for the last 25 years or so :shrugs:

[Phelptwan]

I use my 30/06 in Rem 7600 pump rifle in Zone 3 , for the last 25 years or so :shrugs:

Err...I wouldn't post that on a public forum...

[TomE]

Err...I wouldn't post that on a public forum...

I used it for Early Anterless this season , perhaps a review of zone 3 and the rifle zone is in order

[art]

I used it for Early Anterless this season , perhaps a review of zone 3 and the rifle zone is in order
Perhaps so.....
From page 28 in your 2011 guide, or the link below...

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/03_MI_2011_HT_Digest_360847_7.pdf

Firearm, Crossbow and Bow and Arrow Rules
Centerfire or rimfire rifles may be used Dec. 1-Nov. 9 in the Shotgun Zone during the open season for all species except no rifles may be used for deer, turkeys and migratory game birds. See page 20 for Nighttime Raccoon and Predator Hunting restrictions.

[gman]

Can you explain why a 30 Carbine is too small a caliber ? Sensibly ,and with numbers and ballistics to back up your statements

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm

967 ft lbs of Muzzle energy sounds OK ,not great

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/english-ballistics-chart-2010.pdf

the 44 mag has a range of 999 M.E. down to 960 M.E.,effectively the same OK , but not great

TomE,
I don't believe he is disputing the fact that a .30 carbine will take down a deer, I believe he means that MI. law requires it be .35 cal or straight wall cart. in pistol form which would make the 30 catbine too small. Please re-read the last part of his statement.

Gman

[TomE]

I must have missed that part ,oops ,again

Also ,I'm in zone 3 for seasons ,but the rifle zone boundary goes down into Kent County stopping at M-46 ,which is 13 miles South of my location . So by my calculations you can use rifle in the Rogue River State Rec Area:score: also

[Phelptwan]

I used it for Early Anterless this season , perhaps a review of zone 3 and the rifle zone is in order

As far as I can tell from reading the guide, that's still illegal.

[TomE]

As far as I can tell from reading the guide, that's still illegal.
perhaps a re-reading while looking at the map on page 12 of the 2011 MI Hunt and Fishing Digest will help

http://statehuntandfishregs.com/MI/

or
http://www.statehuntandfishregs.com/MI/pageflip.html

remember its page 12 ,between Grant and Newaygo MI ,near M82 and M37 intersection ,which is city and not open to hunting but nearby is

[SlowDog]

This is just my opinion and nothing more....But if I owned say 500 acres out in the middle of no where I feel if I wanted to use my 444 marlin it should be allowed.....just sayin...:scratch:

[TomE]

As far as I can tell from reading the guide, that's still illegal.
I see your location is "Schoolcraft" ,do they have a reading class there ?:spank:

[Phelptwan]

I see your location is "Schoolcraft" ,do they have a reading class there ?:spank:

I guess I missed your statement that you lived between the Zone 3 and Rifle/Shotgun line.

[langenc]

I always found it odd one could hunt deer with a 357 or 44 mag pistol or shoot varmints with a 30-06 if you want, but a Ruger 44 mag carbine or a 30cal M1 was taboo at deer season.
The 45Lc or 44 make a good short range pistol cartridge for deer or maybe a 41 mag or 10mm would be more your style. The 357 will work but I would prefer a little more bullet weight. The 454 or 460 are great rounds and the 500 S&W would definitely do the job. No matter what cartridge you decide on the limiting factor will be range more then killing power. All the big bore straight walled rds have a trajectory similar to a modern shotgun slug.


Old outdated law just like registering handguns in MI.

[1ADAM12]

Handguns used in zone 3 must be repeaters also. No single shot handguns like T/C.

[GarrettJ]

Handguns used in zone 3 must be repeaters also. No single shot handguns like T/C.
That's interesting, but the State doesn't appear to agree with you.

From the "All Firearms Deer Season - Shotgun Zone" section of the state hunting rules, found at http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/03_MI_2011_HT_Digest_360847_7.pdf

* A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

[art]

Handguns used in zone 3 must be repeaters also. No single shot handguns like T/C.
The law concerning repeating handguns in zone 3 was changed several years ago...when was the last time you looked at the book?

[1ADAM12]

The law concerning repeating handguns in zone 3 was changed several years ago...when was the last time you looked at the book?

Looks like it's been several years. I apologize for the misinformation.

[GarrettJ]

I wonder if anyone has tried using a subcaliber sabot. You could likely get some impressive velocity shooting a .25 or. 30 caliber bullet from a .444 Marlin case, for example.

You would have to look at rifling twist rates though.