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indianajones
02-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Bill would allow guns in car trunks
February 4, 2006
Lansing State Journal

Governor supports efforts to simplify state's current laws
By Derek Wallbank
Capital News Service

Firearms owners would be permitted to carry unloaded weapons in their trunks, even if they don't have a hunting license, under legislation under consideration in the state House.

Rep. Tim Moore, the sponsor, said many well-meaning people are unintentionally breaking the present law.

"We want to make sure that law-abiding citizens don't face penalties," said Moore, calling it a "common sense bill."

The bill would require that all guns be unloaded "in both barrel and magazine and be carried in the trunk of a vehicle."

Currently, gun owners who are transporting guns must either have a hunting license or be en route to or from a "rifle or target range, trap or skeet shooting ground, or archery range." Violations carry a maximum penalty of 90 days in jail and a $250 fine.

That destination provision makes the law unenforceable, said Sam Washington, executive director of the Michigan United Conservation Clubs. "I could say I was going out to a range, and the officer would have no way of knowing," he said.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm supports the bill and will sign it if it comes to her desk, said spokeswoman Heidi Watson: "It simplifies current regulations."

The bill is before the House Conservation, Forestry and Outdoor Recreation Committee.

Chairman Tom Casperson, R-Escanaba, said he expected the bill to sail through committee and pass the House because he and Moore have seen no significant opposition.

"Nobody's come forward to me to say that they're against it," said Moore.

Casperson said he plans to schedule a hearing this month.

Link to story (http://lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060204/NEWS04/602040327&SearchID=732347613129)




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Knimrod
02-05-2006, 12:17 AM
Moved to front page...
Thanks for the story!

enfield
02-05-2006, 05:29 AM
It's about time!!

I wonder how the new law deals with pickup trucks and SUV's?

One of Many
02-05-2006, 03:30 PM
Perhaps they could also use this opportunity to actually define what they mean by 'unloaded in the magazine'. I believe it should be stated that the gun must contain an unloaded magazine, or no magazine at all, but permit loaded magazines that are not contained/installed within the firearm. In addition to (or in place of) stating the barrel is unloaded, it should state that the chamber is unloaded.

I know people that have a lot of magazines (30 round) for their AR type rifles. They like to preload these at home, so they don't spend 90 percent of their time at the range loading magazines. They go to the range to shoot (and when you pay by the hour, it gets expensive), so why require all magazines to be unloaded.

When you think about it, the requirement to have all magazines unloaded (those that are not contained/installed in the gun), is really a presumption on the part of lawmakers/enforcers that people are intent on commiting criminal activity with the gun; making them carry magazines unloaded thus acts as a waiting period before misuse, so people can escape the nutty gun person while he loads magazines.

This missing definition of what constitutes an firearm unloaded in the magazine needs to be resolved in the legislation, and not left up to local interpretation by the cops and DAs.

indianajones
02-05-2006, 04:59 PM
One of many?

Here is a direct answer to your question on transportation. the atty general has an opinion on this. So I carry this paper with me when I go up to the pit with my 10 ak mags loaded.

http://midnr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/MiDNR.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=R93h5Iwh&p_lva=&p_faqid=2307&p_created=1037187407&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM1N yZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWNhbiBJIGNhcnJ5IGEgbG9hZGVkIG1 hZ2F6aW5lIHdoaWxlIHRyYW5zcG9ydGluZyBhIGZpcmVhcm0mc F9wcm9kX2x2bDE9fmFueX4mcF9wcm9kX2x2bDI9fmFueX4mcF9 wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

"I am a bit of an oldtimer I guess. It seems I have always remembered the laws being (in regard to transporting firearms and ammunition) that firearms must be transported in the trunk of your vehicle, in a gun case or wrapped/covered, while the ammunition was to be transported in a separate part of your vehicle, such as the back/front seat, glove compartment, or something to that affect.

I am in debate with wife and son over that question. They are saying that ammunition may be transported inside the gun case along with the firearm. Not loaded in the firearm of course but, in its box/container, inside the gun case, right next to the firearm itself.

Is that true?

Answer
I am afraid you lost a bet. Yes, ammunition may be carried in the case along with the firearm and does not need to be separated or transported in a different area of the vehicle. As you indicated the firearm must be completely unloaded and in a case or completely unloaded and in the trunk.

Somewhat related to your inquiry, the Office of Attorney General was asked about the legality of transporting a loaded magazine removed from the firearm in an enclosed case. They opined that a person need not unload the magazine for legal transport provided the firearm itself is unloaded in the barrel and the magazine is removed."

One of Many
02-05-2006, 10:13 PM
The DNR question and answer pages reflect only the OPINION of one employee at the DNR, and are not legally binding on police and prosecutors. These answers are sometimes incorrect (like the one questioning a Red Dot Scope, where the answer concerns a projected Laser Dot).

There used to be an answer that was more specific about carrying a firearm with a loaded magazine that was separated from the firearm, but that answer seems to have been deleted.

Answer # 2149 and 2364 are relevant from the DNR point of view, with the realization that they do not apply to any non-DNR law enforcement agents. If you have a reference number for the AG opinion regarding unloaded magazines that would apply to ALL law enforcement in MI, please post the reference.

#2149
Can one store rounds (bullets) in the same hard case as a hunting rifle while transporting ?

Question
---- 10/15/2002 05:36 AM ---------------------------------------------
Can one store rounds (bullets) in the same hard case as a hunting rifle while transporting in a vehicle if the rounds are not chambered, but in their own case within the rifle hard case?

Answer
At 10/16/2002 05:47 AM we wrote -

Yes, this is legal provided the firearm itself is unloaded in barrel and magazine.


#2364
Deer hunting, magazine, unloaded firearm - What is considered?

Question
---- 10/08/2002 07:07 PM ---------------------------------------------
While traveling too and from my deer blind during deer season, while dark and carrying a flashlight, am I legal if I unload my rifle and place the (detachable) loaded magazine in my pocket? Or do I have to unload the individual cartridges from the magazine?

Answer
At 10/23/2002 11:41 AM we wrote -

Removing the loaded magazine is all that is required. You do not have to unload the individual cartridges from the magazine.


This leaves the question of what is meant by 'unloaded in magazine'; does it apply only to fixed (non-removeable) magazines, or also to detachable magazines that are inserted into the firearm, or is it all inclusive (no loaded magazines allowed). The DNR position is relatively clear; the rest of the law enforcement community does not follow DNR regulations or interpretations.

cl
02-08-2006, 05:12 PM
My state Senator is to be in town this week. I intend to meet with him and discuss some of these issues and pending legislation. I also intend to ask about SoS issue of CPLs.

Anything Im missing??

Batman
02-08-2006, 10:08 PM
Anything Im missing??

Ask him about the "stand you ground" bill.