View Full Version : AR firing pin hitting primer
Forgive me for sounding a bit stupid, but I'm a noob with AR stuff. I just got a S&W M&P15... I had a mag with 20 rds in it and rather than get them out by hand, I just racked them out via pulling back the charging handle, letting go of it, repeat...
After this, I noticed that all of the primers of the cartridges had little dots on them where something in the gun most definately hit them. There is a small indent in the metal. There were 4 or 5 that did not have this, so I threw those back in the mag and ejected them the same way... voila... dotted primers.
Is this normal? Seems like I could have an accidental discharge... but I'm not sure how much pressure it takes to fire the primer.
Here's a picture:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x212/bobdobalita/IMG_3112.jpg
Please let me know if I am A.) stupid and doing something dumb or B.) may have a problem with my rifle.
THANKS!!!!
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 05:12 PM
I sorta vote for "A". You're not stupid but you're definitely doing something dumb.
Pull the mag first, then eject the round in the chamber.
There might be one or two AR experts here who can address the "B" issue. FWIW, I've experienced primer dents in AKs and similar, but not ARs, especially OEM S&W MPs.
I called the local gun shop and they said it is normal because of the free floating firing pin... and that it won't hit it hard enough to discharge... I don't know if I like that answer because with my luck I'd get some kind of soft primer or something and shoot my neighbor's house or put a hole in my roof.... :P
But why is it dumb, buzzkill, to cycle the rounds through the gun without operating the trigger? (honest question)
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 05:33 PM
But why is it dumb, buzzkill, to cycle the rounds through the gun without operating the trigger? (honest question)
First of all, it's Buzzcat, not buzzkill, thankya very much... :wink:
Simple safety issue... If you're getting primer strikes to the point that they're being dented, then I'd be worried as hell about an ND. How much of a dent do you need for the round to fire? I dunno, but any dent in a primer that occurred when I wasn't pointing and shooting at isn't good.
The only time a primer should be dented is when the gun is actually being fired.
The OP (or anyone else) can cycle the rounds through the action all he wants, but the firing pin is apparantly laying proud in the breech, and there's the risk. That's my point.
That is what my initial thought was... but the guy at the gun shop seemed to think it was perfectly normal... I will def. ask around more...
It's still an AD if it's equipment failure. :P
tech2b9
06-30-2011, 06:06 PM
I have never played with a AR but I would remove the bolt assembly and inspect the firing pin and make sure it is moving free or spring loaded. If it is anything inbetween like alittle sticky or has a rough spot than fix it. I would assume you have a sticky firing pin but to be homest I have no clue. Best way to learn is to tear it apart and get some hands on experience. Enjoy.
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 06:08 PM
It's still an AD if it's equipment failure. :P
It's an ND if you knew about the issue beforehand, which you apparently do... :gavel:
Beyond that, it's just a dumb risk that you don't need in your life.
Personally, if it was my gun, I'd look into getting it straightened out ASAP.
:cheers:
It's an ND if you knew about the issue beforehand, which you apparently do... :gavel:
Beyond that, it's just a dumb risk that you don't need in your life.
Personally, if it was my gun, I'd look into getting it straightened out ASAP.
:cheers:
Durrrrrrr... I should get it checked out?! Really!??! Ummmm... thats' why I'm asking... I"m not sitting here doing it again and again... once I saw what was happening, I STOPPED... so AD then.. yes, now that I SEE THE PROB, ND now...
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 06:36 PM
Durrrrrrr... I should get it checked out?! Really!??! Ummmm... thats' why I'm asking... I"m not sitting here doing it again and again... once I saw what was happening, I STOPPED... so AD then.. yes, now that I SEE THE PROB, ND now...
Dude, relax... just trying to provide some perspective and/or confirm your suspicions. You asked the question...if you already knew the answer when you posted then what's the point of asking in the first place.?
Sorry if my comments raised your hackles, just trying to help. Good luck to You and Urine.
Hawgrider
06-30-2011, 06:38 PM
It's an ND if you knew about the issue beforehand, which you apparently do... :gavel:
Beyond that, it's just a dumb risk that you don't need in your life.
Personally, if it was my gun, I'd look into getting it straightened out ASAP.
:cheers:Its normal just like the gunshop told him. My Colt Match Target Competition does the same thing. My son inlaws Bushmaster does the same thing.
Joeywhat
06-30-2011, 06:43 PM
Really, he should get it looked at? For doing what nearly every AR-15 and variant will do?
It has a free floating firing pin. There is no return spring to keep it from hitting the primer when the bolt is sent forward, inertia will allow it to contact the primer. I'd be more concerned if it doesn't hit the primer at all...it could mean the firing pin is binding up and the pin and bolt need to be cleaned.
Is it safe to cycle live rounds through the rifle? Sure, assuming you have the rifle pointed in a safe direction. **** happens, especially with a free floating firing pin. It can become stock full forward and touch off a round. Rare, but it CAN happen. I certainly wouldn't advise cycling live ammo through ANY firearm unless required to do so. It's best to eliminate potential issues by not allowing them to happen in the first place...if you're not cycling rounds, they won't go off - period.
Is it 'bad' for anything? Sort of...having the primer dented doesn't really hurt anything. Having it dented multiple times can kill the primer and not allow it to properly detonate and ignite the powder. I've read at least one confirmed case of this where an office had loaded/unloaded the same round multiple times on a duty carbine and when we went to shoot (at the range, thankfully) it didn't ignite. There's no hard and fast rule for how many times it can be struck before failing to ignite, the best advice is to load each round only once, after that it's practice ammo only. If it's all practice ammo...then load away, just be safe and be aware that it can lead to dud rounds.
Dude, relax... just trying to provide some perspective and/or confirm your suspicions. You asked the question...if you already knew the answer when you posted then what's the point of asking in the first place.?
Sorry if my comments raised your hackles, just trying to help. Good luck to You and Urine.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not riled in the least... I'm just saying no s##t sherlock... but I realize you're only trying to help... so I wasnt' trying to be a jerk or anything...
And I called the gun shop after I posted... didn't think they were still open is why I posted here...
Thanks for the responses people... feel free to confirm that it's normal!
Really, he should get it looked at? For doing what nearly every AR-15 and variant will do?
It has a free floating firing pin. There is no return spring to keep it from hitting the primer when the bolt is sent forward, inertia will allow it to contact the primer. I'd be more concerned if it doesn't hit the primer at all...it could mean the firing pin is binding up and the pin and bolt need to be cleaned.
Is it safe to cycle live rounds through the rifle? Sure, assuming you have the rifle pointed in a safe direction. **** happens, especially with a free floating firing pin. It can become stock full forward and touch off a round. Rare, but it CAN happen. I certainly wouldn't advise cycling live ammo through ANY firearm unless required to do so. It's best to eliminate potential issues by not allowing them to happen in the first place...if you're not cycling rounds, they won't go off - period.
Is it 'bad' for anything? Sort of...having the primer dented doesn't really hurt anything. Having it dented multiple times can kill the primer and not allow it to properly detonate and ignite the powder. I've read at least one confirmed case of this where an office had loaded/unloaded the same round multiple times on a duty carbine and when we went to shoot (at the range, thankfully) it didn't ignite. There's no hard and fast rule for how many times it can be struck before failing to ignite, the best advice is to load each round only once, after that it's practice ammo only. If it's all practice ammo...then load away, just be safe and be aware that it can lead to dud rounds.
Thanks dude... I appreciate the insight being that I'm a noobie. Yes I had it pointed in a "safe" direction, but I WAS indoors, so would not have been safe for my ears or my floor. I will not cycle it this way in the future.
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 06:50 PM
There's no hard and fast rule for how many times it can be struck before failing to ignite.
My hard and fast rule about how many times primers can be struck is ONCE.
Dents in the primers from cycling the action are not the best way to go. Dangerous at the get-go, and they might cripple the primers later when you really want or need them to work.
YMMV
Joeywhat
06-30-2011, 06:52 PM
"Failing to ignite" is one thing, and basically a non-issue. But when it does ignite... ahh, there's the rub.
Stop pretending to know what you are talking about. If you want to talk about non-issues with AR-15s, let's talk about slam fires with properly maintained rifles.
Hawgrider
06-30-2011, 07:00 PM
http://www.rrrcollectables.com/images/categories/Gleason-Palmer%20-%20And%20Away%20We%20Go.jpg
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 07:12 PM
Stop pretending to know what you are talking about. If you want to talk about non-issues with AR-15s, let's talk about slam fires with properly maintained rifles.
The subject of this thread, AFAIK, is dented primers when cycling unfired rounds through an action. Doesn't matter if it's an AR, an AK, a Barrett Light Fifty or anything else, the same rules apply... if cycling the gun puts dents in the primers, then stop cycling the gun, there's a risk of an ND.
But go ahead and talk about slam-fires... tell us something we don't know.
By the way, looking at your sig line.... I spell it "America", not "Amerika"... not sure where you got the "k" from, but if you're trying to be funny or clever, it isn't working.
Buzzcat
06-30-2011, 07:13 PM
http://www.rrrcollectables.com/images/categories/Gleason-Palmer%20-%20And%20Away%20We%20Go.jpg
:roflmao:
donald150
06-30-2011, 07:35 PM
:twocents:
Do this with a dirty or improperly cleaned rifle and you are really asking for trouble. All it takes is something to bind up that firing pin in the "out" position and your screwed. I don't know if that has ever happened but I don't want to find out.
Like others have said, It is normal with an AR and I am sure your rifle is fine. Take the rounds out of the mag by hand.
:twocents:
Take the rounds out of the mag by hand.
roger that.
gassmann
07-01-2011, 08:44 AM
Military primers are generally harder than hunting or match primers and require more force than a typical floating firing pin strike will produce to fire the round.
Match primers can lead to run aways,
I use a round to down load my mags instead of cycling through the rifle.
Just my experience.
CoponPatrol
07-01-2011, 09:41 AM
METL
here's a tip that will save you time and your fingers: A maglula loader/unloader
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=796384
Tom Fineis
07-01-2011, 10:41 AM
Doesn't matter if it's an AR, an AK, a Barrett Light Fifty or anything else, the same rules apply... if cycling the gun puts dents in the primers, then stop cycling the gun, there's a risk of an ND.
You're continuing to show your ignorance in this thread, and yet are becoming hostile towards others who are trying to provide facts to the OP.
The four levels of competence starts with Level 1 as "unconscious incompetence." That's where you are right now.
Nearly every semi auto rifle with a floating firing pin will put dents in the primers. Every AR, every AK, and the plethora of others have been doing this for 50 years. Are you telling us millions of rifles are "at risk" of an ND?
DocGKR (a true subject matter expert as it pertains to ammunition/ballistics) says to only chamber a round once for duty use. Repeated denting of the primer can actually cause the round NOT to fire when you want it to. Every AR does this to every round when it is firing and loading the next cartridge. It is perfectly normal.
RPMO6
07-01-2011, 10:59 AM
The Dunning-Kruger Effect
:lolup:
Tom Fineis
07-01-2011, 11:11 AM
:lolup:
I tried to nice it up a bit. I'm getting soft in my old age... ;)
Thanks everyone for the responses.... I appreciate the input, and that loader/unloader looks sweet! Though I never have a problem getting the bullets IN to the mag...
Tyler
07-01-2011, 12:17 PM
my stag does it, my AR pistol did it, and my 6.8 did it, I think it is normal, but maybe mine had something wrong too.
Quantum007
07-01-2011, 12:18 PM
It takes a little practice, but if you just use the same process of putting a little pressure at the base of the cartridge, and sliding it forward and up at the same time they usually come out pretty well.
autosurgeon
07-02-2011, 08:38 PM
My SKS does this as well.....guess what free floating firing pin.... just use a loader as was suggested and you will be just fine!
Just FYI, FWIW and all that, there is a spring loaded firing pin avaialable for the SKS that will remove the free float configuration. It works very well and I am pleased with it. About $20 or there abouts.
On the topic:
If you do any checking on reloading .223 for an AR, you will find that it's recommended to use primers that are harder, like CCI and avoid the Remington which are softer. The reason? To prevent slam fires that may occur with the softer primers.
As stated so many times in this thread, the AR free float firing pin will contact the primer in it's NORMAL cycle of operation. Nature of the beast.
Chopper
07-03-2011, 08:34 AM
it is normal for an AR to do this your good to go
1wrx7
07-04-2011, 08:38 AM
I recomend the LULA loader too. Quantum007 is right about sliding the rounds out, but the LULA makes loading/unloading mags a snap
Thanks again for the posts people.. I appreciate it..
ALso, FWIW SLAMFIRE would be a cool band name. :)
I recomend the LULA loader too. Quantum007 is right about sliding the rounds out, but the LULA makes loading/unloading mags a snap
silly question maybe, but why unload a mag in the 1st place? unless of course it somehow got dirty and/or wet.
1wrx7
07-07-2011, 05:55 PM
silly question maybe, but why unload a mag in the 1st place? unless of course it somehow got dirty and/or wet.
Not silly at all. I've only had to do it a few times, once was when my carbine decided it did not want to chamber the hollowpoints I was trying to feed it. Another was when I needed more mags to go shooting and I didn't want to shoot the expensive ammo that was already loaded in them.
I brought it up mainly because the OP started on manually cycling rounds through the action to empty the mag.
silly question maybe, but why unload a mag in the 1st place? unless of course it somehow got dirty and/or wet.
Not all that silly... but I was switching out ammo from good ammo to range ammo... if you follow...
Not all that silly... but I was switching out ammo from good ammo to range ammo... if you follow...
I follow. Personally I have dedicated mags; training and carry
I don't have a carbine yet, but planned to do the same type thing there when I get one
I follow. Personally I have dedicated mags; training and carry
I don't have a carbine yet, but planned to do the same type thing there when I get one
yeah, I'm planninig on that as well... in fact, I just got some extra mags for cheap... but before I only had one... :)
mini4m3
07-08-2011, 06:28 PM
I called the local gun shop and they said it is normal because of the free floating firing pin...
Correct - end of story.
tom-n8ies
09-09-2011, 04:56 PM
If you do any checking on reloading .223 for an AR, you will find that it's recommended to use primers that are harder, like CCI and avoid the Remington which are softer. The reason? To prevent slam fires that may occur with the softer primers.
As stated so many times in this thread, the AR free float firing pin will contact the primer in it's NORMAL cycle of operation. Nature of the beast.[/QUOTE]
Awhile back I heard of a guy charged by the ATF with possession of a machine gun because his semi auto AR 15 slam fired and went full auto.
t
Owner of broken rifle surrenders for 30-month sentence
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68590
What do you expect when ATF Special Agent Jody Keeku has their lab retest the gun after it came back the first time as just a regular semi-auto, and tells them this time to use soft-primmed ammo. Play with it long enough you can make it fail and that is what they did. Plus they never let the defence experts within 6 feet of the gun. Real fair!
the500kid
09-17-2011, 02:13 PM
This is "normal" with the M-4 the Marine Corps uses. You've got approximatley 4 cycleings that you described be for you will have a ND.
Joeywhat
09-17-2011, 02:19 PM
This is "normal" with the M-4 the Marine Corps uses. You've got approximatley 4 cycleings that you described be for you will have a ND.
You're much more likely to end up with a dead primer then it actually igniting, especially after chambering that many times.
Well after the initial postings on this thread i have been extremely careful with what I"m doing as far as chambering, unloading, etc... so I don't see it to be a problem in the future.. but thanks for the heads up.... Definately not looking to have a slam fire.
ANy round that gets a dimple like that goes in teh target shooting pile.
HoldHard
09-19-2011, 03:17 PM
There is an alternate way of unloading an AR15 magazine. Take a round and push on the base of the second bullet that you can see in the magazine. This will take the pressure off of the top round. Hold the magazine slightly sideways and it will fall out.
Simple.
HH
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.