Trooper's gun found in Burger King restroom

[Knimrod]

Trooper's gun found in Burger King restroom
March 23, 2006
Alicia Smith
WWMT News
http://www.wwmt.com/pictures/1143159330-snap817.jpgNEAR KALAMAZOO (NEWS 3) - A Michigan State Police Trooper's loaded handgun is now back in safe hands after being discovered in a stall at the Burger King on 9th Street in Texas Township near Kalamazoo.

The incident happened around 2 p.m. on March 12th, according to the assistant store manager Bart Nye.

"What immediately went through my mind was, 'Oh, dear. This could be bad,'" said Nye. "It was sitting on top of the toilette paper dispenser in our men's room. It was in its holster just sitting there as if someone had set it down then forgot to pick it back up again."

He called 911 immediately, then shut himself in the restroom to keep the gun untouched until authorities arrived to retrieve it.

The Kalamazoo County Sheriff's Department forwarded the weapon to the Michigan State Police post in Paw Paw.
A supervisor at the post told News 3 that the gun belonged to an off-duty trooper from northern Michigan.

The Burger King's store manager, David Siegfried, told News 3 that the day after the gun was found, the trooper who had accidentally left the gun behind showed up at the restaurant. "He was just very appreciative and didn't say much. [He] just wanted to say thank you," said Siegfried.

"The police officer said he was about 190 miles away before he realized he was actually missing his gun," he added. "I'm just glad no one got hurt."

Bart Nye was just about to start his shift when he stopped in the restroom that day.
"I was actually kind of happy that I was the first one to find it because I didn't want a customer to find it, or a kid to find it, or someone find it and hurt themselves with it or do even worse with it," said Nye, adding, "I was shaking for at least 20 minutes afterwards."

The Michigan State Police 3rd District Administrative Office in Saginaw is handling the incident.

The inspector was not available for comment before deadline.

Link to story (http://www.wwmt.com/engine.pl?station=wwmt&id=24803&template=breakout_local.html)

[PhotoTom]

Oops!

Really though...the manager seemed pretty shook up over a piece of steel.

It would have been pretty messed up if some kids found it and decided to play cowboys and indians, though...

:tsk:

[BigBink]

This part is really sad!

"I was shaking for at least 20 minutes afterwards."

Anybody near Kzoo that could invite this guy to a range session?

[Knimrod]

we have disscussed this before at length here a while back. there are several options one take seat in the bathroom place gun in your underwear... other would be to place it in your underwear dont leave it sitting around

Too bad this guy wasn't a member here so he could have learned of deputy's sage advice...

What a timely news story... eh?

[PhotoTom]

Oh yeah...note to self...don't handle any of Deputy's guns...

:hurl:

[paddy]

Oh yeah...note to self...don't handle any of Deputy's guns...

:hurl:

Oh great....Now I have to explain to the boss why I spit coffee all over the keyboard.

[woody1960]

I wonder if the trooper will get reprimanded for it? Seems like just a dumb mistake, but, it really could have gotten serious if the wrong person found it.

[Tank]

This part is really sad!

"I was shaking for at least 20 minutes afterwards."

Anybody near Kzoo that could invite this guy to a range session?

A fear doesn't have to be rational at all... Moving this last weekend, one of my GF's friends was holding a box. I told her, "I'll take that, it has my handguns in it". She turned so green and immediately told me that her stomach turned inside out when she heard the word gun. I started to have a small conversation that it's the same as carrying a hammer.... but gave up in the interest of completing my move and not trying to reason with an idiot.

[goldwing2000]

This part is really sad!

"I was shaking for at least 20 minutes afterwards."

Anybody near Kzoo that could invite this guy to a range session?

No doubt! I would have been like, "Woo-Hoo!! Free gun! :score:"

[Ken P]

First Elvis...now this....Kzoo is getting famous

[M1911A1]

All's well that ends well. Deputy's advice is good, don't get me wrong. Secure your property like it means something to you, absolutely.
I may catch heat for this but let's look at it another way. This was an expensive piece of personal property. That is all. We talk about the irrational fear that some have but how much are we fueling it? What if it was someone's Rolex, or car keys? How about a cell phone or pager? Maybe a wedding ring that someone took off to wash their hands? Just an expensive piece of personal property. What if it was car keys and the guy sat down to eat. Some kid could walk off with the keys, steal the car and run over seventeen school kids!
I don't know if I'm making my point or not, so I'll try it this way. If we want to strop irrational anti gun hysteria, then we need to carefully choose our reactions to simple mistakes that don't lead to any problems.

[Knimrod]

You sum it up well Marty. Similar thoughts crossed my mind when I read of a women who accidentally left her purse in a store checkout. There was a gun in it and when found, it was treated like a ticking time bomb.

Not all that long ago, not too much would have been made of it. Instead of the police being called and the women being arrested, there would have a polite phone call from a store employee to ask the women to retrieve her property.

Nowadays, the irrational fear that a gun will somehow spontaneously shoot someone seems prevalent.

[Knimrod]

State trooper in trouble for misplacing his gun
March 24, 2006
By Rex Hall Jr.
Kalamazoo Gazette

A Michigan State Police trooper will face disciplinary action after he left his off-duty service weapon in a rest room at the Burger King in Texas Township, authorities said.

The trooper, assigned to the state police post in Gladwin, was in the Kalamazoo area on family business March 12 and was returning home when he stopped at the fast-food restaurant on South Ninth Street about 2 p.m., said Inspector Chuck Allen, assistant commander for the State Police 3rd District headquarters in Saginaw.

Allen said state police policy requires troopers to carry an off-duty service weapon.

After leaving the restaurant, the trooper, who was not identified, continued his drive home and realized ``some distance away'' that he did not have his firearm on him, Allen said. The trooper then contacted his supervisor and made them aware of the incident.

In the meantime, Allen said, the gun was found by a manager at the Burger King who notified authorities in Kalamazoo County.

Allen said the incident is still under investigation. Disciplinary action could range from formal counseling and retraining to discharge. A final determination on discipline will be made by Allen after a review of the investigation, he said.

"You do not misplace your firearm without there being some consequences, pure and simple," Allen said.

"Thank God there was no tragedy, but operationally, this is an area you strive for perfection in."

The trooper, who has been with State Police for 10 to 15 years, is still on active duty, he said.

Link to story (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/114321725213720.xml?kzgazette?NEPB&coll=7)

[PhotoTom]

This was an expensive piece of personal property. That is all. We talk about the irrational fear that some have but how much are we fueling it? What if it was someone's Rolex, or car keys? {snip} What if it was car keys and the guy sat down to eat. Some kid could walk off with the keys, steal the car and run over seventeen school kids!

So, you see no difference in leaving a loaded gun and a set of keys behind in a restroom and say that anyone else that does has some sort of "irrational fear"...or is fueling it?

Sorry, but I see a big difference. The probability that a kid would find the gun and decide to "check it out"...at some point pulling the trigger and discharging the weapon vs. the probability that a kid would find a set of keys and go steal a car are vastly different.

Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility. Carrying other inanimate objects isn't necessarily. How many times have we all left a cheap pen behind...handed it to someone and almost instantly forgot about it only to realize that we don't have one when we need it later? Why? Because the pen is relatively insignificant. Geeze, a kid could stab another kid with it, but more than likely, it will end up being used to write something stupid on the bathroom stall wall if found there. Is leaving an ink pen behind as irresponsible as leaving a loaded gun behind? I hardly think so! I don't call that reasoning "irrational fear", I call it reality.

As for the manager's "irrational fear"...quaking in his boots scared of the thing just sitting there...as they say...you fear what you don't understand. If you walked into a chemical plant lab and there was green smoke in the air and nobody was anywhere around...you wouldn't become somewhat afraid?? But then the lab techs start laughing at you for your "irrational fear" because you didn't understand what the green smoke was and how you should properly react...to them, it is obvious because they've been trained and they understand exactly what it is and how to deal with it...to you, it is potentially deadly.

[Kouger]

No doubt! I would have been like, "Woo-Hoo!! Free gun! :score:"


OK KANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............ you cant do this to me rightnow.....Broncitis and luaghing dont mix

[M1911A1]

So, you see no difference in leaving a loaded gun and a set of keys behind in a restroom and say that anyone else that does has some sort of "irrational fear"...or is fueling it?


No Tom ,that isn't it and I don't have the time to exlain it .

[woody1960]

Wow,imo a gun is far more than an expensive peice of personal property.Its a big responabilty and I feel if you take on the responabilty of carring a gun you need to know where it is at ALL times.The chances of a five year old or a bad guy killing someone with a wedding ring or a car is rather small compard to a wepon.As far as the manager shaking for 20 min.afterwards...you have to consider the source.Prolly the most excitment he's ever had.

[Knimrod]

How 'bout a knife or a lighter? I think you're missing the point. Consider what might have happened 50 years ago with this situation....Someone finds a gun in a bathroom stall. What would have happened? Even a kid...

A kid would have probably done the responsible thing, informing the manager and NOT immediately shot someone with it because he would have very likely had some basic knowledge, experience or education.

If a kid finds a lighter in a bathroom stall today, chances are pretty good he wouldn't immediately set himself on fire because someone would have taught him lighters can be dangerous.

[PhotoTom]

No Tom ,that isn't it and I don't have the time to exlain it .

No need to "explain it" to me (sounds a little condescending)...but you might want to clarify yourself if that's not what you intended to convey since that's exactly how your post read.

Sorry to be touchy, but I think the notion that leaving a loaded handgun behind in a fast food restaurant bathroom is no different than leaving a set of keys since they are both just personal property...and anyone reacting differently is somehow fueling "irrational fear"...is a ridiculous notion.


If we want to strop irrational anti gun hysteria, then we need to carefully choose our reactions to simple mistakes that don't lead to any problems.

I can just see it...an interview with a CPL holder that left their handgun behind in a fast food restaurant bathroom...on camera, they say "I don't see any big deal...it was just an piece of personal property, that's all...no different than a watch or a set of keys...I mean after all, nobody got hurt, right?" I think the natural reaction would be "How irresponsible is that thinking??? Should people like this be allowed to carry guns around in public??"

The issue here isn't about an inanimate piece of steel...it is about responsibility involved with carrying a deadly weapon around in public places. As people doing so, we cannot allow ourselves to become so complacent that we don't see any difference between leaving a loaded handgun and a set of keys laying around or left behind in a public place...

[woody1960]

The issue here isn't about an inanimate piece of steel...it is about responsibility involved with carrying a deadly weapon around in public places. As people doing so, we cannot allow ourselves to become so complacent that we don't see any difference between leaving a loaded handgun and a set of keys laying around or left behind in a public place...[/quote]

I agree 100%

You talk about car keys, did you know its illegal to leave your car running in your own drive way? IE, warming it up in the morning.

[Ken P]

No need to "explain it" to me (sounds a little condescending)...but you might want to clarify yourself if that's not what you intended to convey since that's exactly how your post read.

I'dhave to agree...

[M1911A1]

It was not my intent to be condescending but I was in a hurry.


What law did the trooper break? Who was harmed?
The answer to the second question is no one was harmed.
As to the first, I really don't know if there was a law broken.
If there wasn't, then what is the charge? It there was then what is the charge?
Knimrod understands the point I'm trying to make. I can tell you this. When I was a kid, I wouldn't have given a tinker's damn about a gun in the bathroom but car keys would have been a great temptation.
Hey, what ever works for you.

[Knimrod]

The reaction of the person finding the gun is illustrative of someone completely ignorant of guns. There isn't respect but only fear. This is the earmark of gun education as glamorized by the media, Hollywood and TV. Not all that long ago, a gun was just a gun.. Not simply a "deadly weapon". My gun is a useful tool for self defense and only a "weapon" if used to injure, defeat, or destroy. After all, why would anyone need to carry around a "deadly weapon"?

[PhotoTom]

Not all that long ago, a gun was just a gun.. Not simply a "deadly weapon". My gun is a useful tool for self defense and only a "weapon" if used to injure, defeat, or destroy. After all, why would anyone need to carry around a "deadly weapon"?

Semantics...
There are "less then lethal" weapons and there are "lethal" or "deadly" weapons. A gun carried for self defense is a deadly weapon, period.

[Quaamik]

Was the managers fear irrational? Unless it was left behind with a badge, and potentialy even if it was, he didn't know a police officer had forgot it. It could just as easily have been some gang banger or armed robber who forgot it .... and might be coming back to get it.

Those familiar with guns might think the simple solution to that worry would be to unload it and secure it in the managers office. But what if it has been used in a crime? The manager might think the police will treat it like CSI does on TV, and not want to disturb it.

I know I'd be nervous if I found one just sitting somewhere, just on the thought of what kind of person left it here and are they coming back for it. (That would be after the excitment of finding a "free gun".) A purse left with a gun in it (as mentioned earlier in the thread) would be differnt. I would expect to find ID in the purse as well, and a CPL. NO CPL in the purse? I'd have to think whether I would call the person to return the purse or the police to come pick it up.

[comet66]

IMHO

Reguardless of how things used to be, and are today, the amount of awareness. or irational fear, on the part of the general public.

Leaving your Rolex or Car Keys behind in a public place, especially one frequented by unsupervised children, is careless. Leaving a weapon of any kind, is irresponsable.

Call it "simply a tool" if you will, but remember, a tool is only a tool when used as such. When allowed to fall into the hands of the uninformed or untrained, even a hammer can cause much damage.

Just my 2cents.