Suppressor Expectations

[jmacken37]

Hello and congrats to my fellow Michiganders!

I just wanted to mention a couple of things to all of those likely thinking about picking up some cans...

1) Most cans are not "Hollywood" quiet. The good .22 cans come closest.
2) Remember to figure in the cost of the $200 transfer tax when considering cans. When you figure in the cost of the tax, the percentage difference between cheaper and more expensive cans drops. You often get what you pay for.
3) The $200 tax also makes cans difficult to unload without taking a major hit. You should plan on not selling your can when you get one.
4) This is a decent website with can comparisons...http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?247-SILENCER-SOUND-TESTING
5) When looking at cans remember to consider modularity (can the suppressor be used on multiple firearms) and the cost of mounts.
6) If you are shooting with cans remember there is a very noticeable "crack" with ammo that goes supersonic.
7) Finally, POI shift is something to consider, too.

I'm sure there are other important factors to consider, but those are some that I think of off the top of my head.

Jake

[TAC]

8 ) Your weapon needs to have a threaded barrel
9 ) Your iron sights will become useless, unless they are "suppressor sights" that are high enough to clear the can. Some SIG's, and HK's have these.

[rjrivero]

10) User serviceable suppressors when available are a huge benefit. When you consider the cost of the suppressor, and the fact that once it's yours, it's generally yours for life, being able to CLEAN it is a nice benefit. Especailly true of dirty .22LR cans.

[CallmeDave]

So what gun/can for a 22lr pistol setup can you guys recomend on the cheaper side?

[rjrivero]

So what gun/can for a 22lr pistol setup can you guys recomend on the cheaper side?
The Gemtech Outback IID is a user serviceable suppressor that isn't terribly expensive. There are smaller independant shops that make descent suppressors for about the price of the stamp, but the ones I've seen haven't got the same fit/finish as the gemtech's.

I have a Gemtech Alpine, which is a bit more expensive and a bit heavier, but also a bit quieter.

IF the Outback IID was available when I got my Alpine, I'd have one of them.

If you ask me, and no one did, the Walther P-22 is a perfect suppressor host!

[GLOCKME]

:cool: :cool:

Need a silencer smilie eh Jake..

B

[ILoveMyGlock]

Silencer Co. suppressors are flat, and don't need aftermarket sights to see the target..

I am SO glad that suppressors are legal now! I just spent the last 5 hours making my own, I ordered a LWD threaded barrel, it should be here in a few days. I'll let you all know how it sounds in my basement!

(joke)

[shadow120]

So what gun/can for a 22lr pistol setup can you guys recomend on the cheaper side?

ruger mkii- $250
barrel threaded - $100-$150
Gemtech Outback IID 22LR- $350
tax stamp- $200

so for under $1000 you have a nice quiet .22 pistol. this is what im planing to do. already have the ruger mkii so tuesday ill be on the phone to find someone local to thread the barrel. :tapdance:

[pgaplayerless]

Silencer Co. suppressors are flat, and don't need aftermarket sights to see the target..

I am SO glad that suppressors are legal now! I just spent the last 5 hours making my own, I ordered a LWD threaded barrel, it should be here in a few days. I'll let you all know how it sounds in my basement!

yeah i hope ur kidding......

[aresbykes]

Silencer Co. suppressors are flat, and don't need aftermarket sights to see the target..

I am SO glad that suppressors are legal now! I just spent the last 5 hours making my own, I ordered a LWD threaded barrel, it should be here in a few days. I'll let you all know how it sounds in my basement!


Silencerco screws over dealers, they have such a low profitability margin, Idk...


Also, I'm in on this before you get flamed for making a suppressor without a stamp.

[Joeywhat]

Looks like someone didn't read the fine print.........

[ILoveMyGlock]

I'm only jerking your chain guys :-)

Wouldn't want to spend the next 10 years of my life in the booty house!!! haha


How come silencer co screws their dealers?

I was looking at the AAC and the Osprey, both run $850, both Titanium I believe.

[aresbykes]

they are pretty pricey for the dealer, not much margin on their end.

[ILoveMyGlock]

they are pretty pricey for the dealer, not much margin on their end.

Ahh, I see.

I wonder how long until someone OC's with a huge can on the end of their pistol, (doesn't bother me) guaranteed to send the public into a ***** fit.

[dpgperftest]

Why a 200 tax this should be illegal ? what laws have change this is the first I have seen this ???????

[HemiChallenger]

Silly question, can you make your own?

Legally...

[Quantum007]

Thanks for the info, now just picking one is going to be the difficult part!

[detroit25]

I have heard that you cann't apply for your stamp until you buy a supressor because you need the serial # for each supressor you buy, true?

[JohnJak]

Who makes a OWB/IWB holster for my suppressed pistol?

[ColonelKurtz]

Why a 200 tax this should be illegal ? what laws have change this is the first I have seen this ???????
$200 tax for suppressors and full auto guns has been in place since 1934.

[rjrivero]

Why a 200 tax this should be illegal ? what laws have change this is the first I have seen this ???????
$200 tax for suppressors and full auto guns has been in place since 1934.
Indeed. It is the National Firearms Act of 1934.

[Leader]

Be thankful, $200 in 1934 would be the same as $2784.62 today.

[TAC]

So what gun/can for a 22lr pistol setup can you guys recomend on the cheaper side?

For the gun, check out Ruger's new .22LR pistols with threaded barrels!
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245ThreadedBarrel/models.html

[Smokepole]

Be thankful, $200 in 1934 would be the same as $2784.62 today.
...Just what I was thinking as well.
If this catches on with any significant fervor, that $200.00 will jump dramatically.

[TAC]

Be thankful, $200 in 1934 would be the same as $2784.62 today.

Be thankful for a tax of $200? I'm not thankful for any tax. Why is the tax even necessary? Would you be happy if there was a Federal tax on every firearm you buy? How about your ammo?

[SADAacp]

Be thankful for a tax of $200? I'm not thankful for any tax. Why is the tax even necessary? Would you be happy if there was a Federal tax on every firearm you buy? How about your ammo?

There already is...FET.

[pgaplayerless]

There already is...FET.

this

[RSF]

remember it 200 per item

AAC and SF are the only cans ill own

[Leader]

Be thankful for a tax of $200? I'm not thankful for any tax. Why is the tax even necessary? Would you be happy if there was a Federal tax on every firearm you buy? How about your ammo?

I didn't say be thankful for the tax, just that the law didn't have a cost of living requirement in it.
I'm sure MI will come up with a revenue requirement if people actually do start getting these.

[ILoveMyGlock]

Who makes a OWB/IWB holster for my suppressed pistol?

Osprey's are flat, therefore able to use with compatible holsters.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4434/ilovemyglock.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/28/ilovemyglock.jpg/)

[pgaplayerless]

I didn't say be thankful for the tax, just that the law didn't have a cost of living requirement in it.
I'm sure MI will come up with a revenue requirement if people actually do start getting these.


highly doubtful

[jmacken37]

Check out the ratings/sound tests, but SWR make some of the nicest cans available. Their .22 LR and 9mm cans are the best I've heard.

Read up on the "dip". For my money, a .22 can needs to be stainless and user serviceable (i.e., take apart).

For .22 hosts, I've used...

Walther P22
Tactical Solutions Glock upper (I like the 15 rd mags), but am having some break in issues with the upper not going to slide lock on last shot.
Sig .22 uppers with mag upgrades from SigPower

I like my G17 with LoneWolf threaded BBL for a 9mm host.

You do NOT need larger sights for a can on a pistol if you shoot with both eyes open. It takes a bit of getting used to, but you can see your sights and target if you practice it a few times.

Jake

[jmacken37]

9 ) Your iron sights will become useless, unless they are "suppressor sights" that are high enough to clear the can. Some SIG's, and HK's have these.

Not true! You can see the sights and the target by simply keeping both eyes open.

Jake

[jmacken37]

remember it 200 per item

AAC and SF are the only cans ill own

Steveo,

You'll miss some very nice cans...nothing wrong with AAC and SF, but there are some pretty cool and innovative cans out there.

Jake

[jmacken37]

I have heard that you cann't apply for your stamp until you buy a supressor because you need the serial # for each supressor you buy, true?

The tax is paid on transfer of a specific item. You are correct; you can't buy a stamp and then pick out a can.

Also, remember that the approval process is currently taking months on a form 4.

Jake

[TAC]

Not true! You can see the sights and the target by simply keeping both eyes open.

Jake

Then why do they make special sights for use with suppressors?

[rjrivero]

Then why do they make special sights for use with suppressors?
Because people will buy them. Try it first with stock sights. If you don't like them, you can change them easily enough. Personally, I still use stock sights.

[TAC]

Because people will buy them. Try it first with stock sights. If you don't like them, you can change them easily enough. Personally, I still use stock sights.

Like this guy? :crazy: :coffee:

[Clipper]

The tax is paid on transfer of a specific item. You are correct; you can't buy a stamp and then pick out a can.

Also, remember that the approval process is currently taking months on a form 4.

Jake


So there is no legal way to build your own?

[TAC]

So there is no legal way to build your own?

Why build? 8)

[Clipper]

Why build? 8)

Because I can. The question is serious.

[RSF]

Steveo,

You'll miss some very nice cans...nothing wrong with AAC and SF, but there are some pretty cool and innovative cans out there.

Jake


I know i like some of the others i have shot but for long term and construction and ease of use and etc... these are the 2 i have long term use on most of all

[gizzard]

While I've got no problem with supressors on guns, the fervor I'm seeing here from a bunch of people clamoring to pay $200 for the right to buy one is pretty astounding.

But just to be clear....

Just in case someone isn't aware of the fact, supressors don't turn your gun into some sort of James Bond secret silent weapon. For any caliber above a mildly loaded .22, the supersonic "crack" will always be there, and for many calibers, that "crack" is just as loud as the noise that the round's powder combustion creates. So it's at best a 50-50 proposition in terms of noise suppression, depending on your caliber and load.

Perhaps the reloaders here will dig up some data on effective subsonic loads.

Go forth and act accordingly. :wink:

[TAC]

While I've got no problem with suppressors on guns, the fervor I'm seeing here from a bunch of people clamoring to pay $200 for the right to buy one is pretty astounding.

But just to be clear....

Just in case someone isn't aware of the fact, suppressors don't turn your gun into some sort of James Bond secret silent weapon. For any caliber above a mildly loaded .22, the supersonic "crack" will always be there, and for many calibers, that "crack" is way louder than whatever noise that the powder combustion creates.

Go forth and act accordingly. :wink:

+1 I think many will be disappointed. The novelty will wear off fast. Soon they will be trading them for Hi Point carbines, and a set of ear muffs! :hardhat:

[romanowe]

+1 I think many will be disappointed. The novelty will wear off fast. Soon they will be trading them for Hi Point carbines, and a set of ear muffs! :hardhat:


I don't think you give most of these guys enough credit. If you can think of a better HD weapon than a supressed SBR I'm all ears.

[romanowe]

Supressors also reduce muzzle flash which is a big deal in enclosed spaces in the dark.

Edit: Overall benefit is ~30rds with good terminal ballistics, much faster reloads, and yes easier to handle.

[romanowe]

I don't think you give most of these guys enough credit. If you can think of a better HD weapon than a supressed SBR I'm all ears.


Yes, and how many times in the future do you expect to not only be in an enclosed space in the dark, but to also have to worry about your muzzle flash?

Big deal indeed.

That is when.

[spartywrx]

My plans (like anyone cares)

.22 lr for the 22/45

.22/223 for the rifles

9mm for the AR-15 9mm

Integrally suppressed sten.

So either 2 or 4 tax stamps depending on how I can make them share between hosts.

Anyone know a good shop in Detroit area that threads barrels? Customized Creations and ADCO are approximately equidistant from me (1hr). Both have stellar reputations.

[rjrivero]

Adco will turn your barrel around in 3-5 days. No need to travel. Just mail it to them.

[maustin195]

While I've got no problem with supressors on guns, the fervor I'm seeing here from a bunch of people clamoring to pay $200 for the right to buy one is pretty astounding.

But just to be clear....

Just in case someone isn't aware of the fact, supressors don't turn your gun into some sort of James Bond secret silent weapon. For any caliber above a mildly loaded .22, the supersonic "crack" will always be there, and for many calibers, that "crack" is just as loud as the noise that the round's powder combustion creates. So it's at best a 50-50 proposition in terms of noise suppression, depending on your caliber and load.

Perhaps the reloaders here will dig up some data on effective subsonic loads.

Go forth and act accordingly. :wink:
All the .45 I shoot is subsonic aand so is most of my 9mm. Below approx. 1170 ft/sec is subsonic. All the supressors i have looked at reduce the sound levels below the level of instantly permanent damage regradless of caliber.

[Quaamik]

............. Noise is the perp's problem, not yours............................................w hat's the overall benefit when it comes to HD? .............

A couple of advantages:

- Afterward, you don't have to worry about permanent hearing damage to you, your wife and your kids.

- They very effectivly suppress the flash as well, making it less likely you'll lose your night vision. That makes follow up shots faster.

[dpgperftest]

A couple of advantages:

- Afterward, you don't have to worry about permanent hearing damage to you, your wife and your kids.

- They very effectivly suppress the flash as well, making it less likely you'll lose your night vision. That makes follow up shots faster.
WHAT:shrugs:

[Detroit Holster]

We have a Gemtech Alpine and are really impressed with it.
Depending on ammo selection, it is Hollywood quiet.

We screw it on to a Ruger 22/45 and have a Ruger SR22 arriving tomorrow.

The lighter loads (very quiet) will not cycle the action on the 22/45; but still awesome.


So what gun/can for a 22lr pistol setup can you guys recomend on the cheaper side?

[rjrivero]

We have a Gemtech Alpine and are really impressed with it.
Depending on ammo selection, it is Hollywood quiet.

We screw it on to a Ruger 22/45 and have a Ruger SR22 arriving tomorrow.

The lighter loads (very quiet) will not cycle the action on the 22/45; but still awesome.
What's the cleaning interval for the alpine?

[HK USP]

1) Most cans are not "Hollywood" quiet. The good .22 cans come closest.
While I can't speak for "most cans" I can speak for the Osprey on th HK and it quieter than Hollywood :D

Although pricey it is low profile and I can still use my Tri J Cons with no issues, which is why I went with that can....