Cheapest lawyers to do NFA trust?

[DP425]

Can someone point me to a couple options? I'd like to keep it @ $300 or less.

[Shyster]

I prepare NFA Trusts for $350.00 if you are a paying MGO member or $400.00 if not (hint: it costs $25.00 to join MGO).

If you can find someone experienced in NFA Trusts who will do it for less go ahead.

[matt11]

What is a NFA trust? do I need one?

[rjrivero]

What is a NFA trust? do I need one?
An NFA Trust is a Revocable Living Trust created to own NFA Firearms also known as title 2 firearms.

Title 2 firearms are defined in ATF 5320.80. LINK HERE. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Fpublications%2Fdown load%2Fp%2Fatf-p-5320-8%2Fatf-p-5320-8.pdf&ei=w-UtT_OYNej20gHQ1fnMCg&usg=AFQjCNHnf9Q3zlrTWwJAQgRKzwHv8YAWkQ)

NFA Firearms are defined in Chapter 2 of that document. Essentially, if they're too much fun for the general public, they're title 2 firearms. ;)

These include suppressors, machine guns, AOW's, and Destructive devices. (The ones allowed in Michigan). The ones NOT allowed in Michigan, Short Barrel Rifles and Short Barrel Shotguns.

In order to obtain these devices you need to fill out the appropriate form (Form 1 or Form 4 for most of us.)

Then you need to pay a $200 transfer tax to the ATF, include 2 passport size photos, and have your Chief Law enforcement officer sign off on EACH application.

A TRUST allows you to transfer these items into the trust, and eliminates the passport photos and the CLEO sign off.

A Trust also allows anyone named a trustee to be able to use your NFA Firearm without you being there "in direct control" of the NFA Firearm.

[Buffman]

A local lawyer is working on doing NFA trusts, but more than likely they're not going to be much cheaper if at all than Shyster.. You could always go the Quicken Trust route.

[HK USP]

Do you need to set up the trust before or after you buy?

[esq_stu]

A local lawyer is working on doing NFA trusts, but more than likely they're not going to be much cheaper if at all than Shyster.. You could always go the Quicken Trust route.I'd work with Jim (Shyster). By now, I am sure he has done many and knows the ins and outs quite well. I think that is a very fair price.

Although there are numerous fill-in-the-blank trusts that you could use, consider this:

1. Your lawyer has malpractice insurance and practices Michigan law. Does quick books?

2. This is not like a living trust, which is designed to protect property and not to avoid going to jail. A canned program is not a person and will not think for you.

3. If you do not understand anything about what you are doing, you could make a mistake in using the trust even if the canned program helps you set it up OK. If you, as trustee, act improperly and cause a lawsuit against the trust, then as an individual, you could be personally liable and the trust will not protect you from the ATF. A NFA Trust is not the same as an ordinary revocable trust in the way it is used..

4. You would never hand a gun to someone without providing them instructions on how to use it. You could put yourself, family members, and friends at risk by not understanding out how simple actions will violate the NFA and create criminal and civil liabilities. How? But letting them use your NFA weapon while your NFA trust has been invalidated through your own ignorance.

I am saying this as a lawyer that does not do NFA trusts. But I know enough about trusts to say that I personally would not do an NFA trust without legal assistance. When and if I do an NFA trust, I will hire someone that knows more about it than me.

There - :twocents:

[Shyster]

Do you need to set up the trust before or after you buy?
The Trust needs to be established before you submit your Form 4 for ATF approval.

[rjrivero]

The Trust needs to be established before you submit your Form 4 for ATF approval.
And a Copy of the trust must be included with your Form 4 and $200 check for the transfer tax.

[Buffman]

I'd work with Jim (Shyster). By now, I am sure he has done many and knows the ins and outs quite well. I think that is a very fair price.

Although there are numerous fill-in-the-blank trusts that you could use, consider this:

1. Your lawyer has malpractice insurance and practices Michigan law. Does quick books?

2. This is not like a living trust, which is designed to protect property and not to avoid going to jail. A canned program is not a person and will not think for you.

3. If you do not understand anything about what you are doing, you could make a mistake in using the trust even if the canned program helps you set it up OK. If you, as trustee, act improperly and cause a lawsuit against the trust, then as an individual, you could be personally liable and the trust will not protect you from the ATF. A NFA Trust is not the same as an ordinary revocable trust in the way it is used..

4. You would never hand a gun to someone without providing them instructions on how to use it. You could put yourself, family members, and friends at risk by not understanding out how simple actions will violate the NFA and create criminal and civil liabilities. How? But letting them use your NFA weapon while your NFA trust has been invalidated through your own ignorance.

I am saying this as a lawyer that does not do NFA trusts. But I know enough about trusts to say that I personally would not do an NFA trust without legal assistance. When and if I do an NFA trust, I will hire someone that knows more about it than me.

There - :twocents:
Understandable. One of the reasons I went to a local lawyer who's well versed in doing wills/trusts/corporations/etc, who is just as interested in doing the trust for me as he is for himself.

Just out of curiousity, how many people have gone to jail, faced prosecution, convictions, etc, by using a canned program trust?

[rjrivero]

Understandable. One of the reasons I went to a local lawyer who's well versed in doing wills/trusts/corporations/etc, who is just as interested in doing the trust for me as he is for himself.

Just out of curiousity, how many people have gone to jail, faced prosecution, convictions, etc, by using a canned program trust?
There is ONE case that has been pretty well vetted. His trust was deemed invalid, even though the ATF had transfered NFA items into the trust. He was then notified that his trust was void, and it ended up costing him MANY THOUSANDS of dollars to rectify the situation. He didn't end up in jail, and his trust was amended to comply, and he ended up paying many times the cost of a trust.