Procedure for purchasing suppressor

[chrisduman]

what's the full procedure for purchasing a suppressor? just got the good news "late i know" i'm looking to purchase at least 2 suppressors in the next few months and im wondering how to go about doing it.

whats the procedure for store purchases versus online?

Thanks for the info.

[Shyster]

If you purchase online you must arrange for a local Class 3 dealer to take delivery, similar to an online firearm purchase and the dealer will charge you a fee for his services. You will then either need to go through the Form 4 process as an individual or set up a Trust.

With a Form 4 as an individual you will need to supply your fingerprints, a passport photo and get the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for your jurisdiction to approve the form. You will then have to wait several months for BATFE approval. Upon approval you will receive your tax stamp and take delivery from your dealer. Once you have the device it can only be used by you or by others while under your direct dominion and control.

If you go the Trust route, you will not need fingerprints, photos or CLEO approval. Theoretically the time it takes to process the paperwork for BATFE should be less as the agency does not need to wait for the FBI to run fingerprints. Upon approval the Trust will receive a tax stamp and take delivery from your dealer. With a Trust anyone you name as a beneficiary on the Trust will be rable to use the device without being under your direct supervision.

[rjrivero]

I have nothing to add to what Shyster has said, other than the link in my signature will help you understand the Form 4 "process."

"Theoretically" as shyster pointed out doesn't really pan out to anything in terms of actual time. 6 months is the going time for NFA Transfers.

[usmcpaul]

Is there any advantage to setting up a Trust to buy a Full-auto gun?

[rjrivero]

Is there any advantage to setting up a Trust to buy a Full-auto gun?
The same advantages that Shyster posted above apply to all NFA Firearm transfers.

The main advantage is that your inventory stays "Private."

[steve581581]

How does one set up a trust, and what is involved?

[rjrivero]

How does one set up a trust, and what is involved?
That's the crux of the question.

Lawyers can set up trusts, as part of their practice. Most NFA Trusts will run $350-600 depending on your lawyer.

Then there is the Quicken Willmaker software. They have been used in the past to make trusts that have passed the ATF inspection process.

The only *problem* that could arise is if your trust is declared invalid by the ATF. If that happens on your FIRST application, it's not a big deal. Just revise your trust and re-submit.

If however, as has happened, it is declared invalid on a subsequent application, then you run into issues. It can get VERY expensive to fight off the ATF and the AG's office. If you did your trust yourself, then you have to hire a lawyer to defend you. If you have a trust prepared by a lawyer, then it is their responsibility to repair the trust and iron things out with the ATF.

In my opinion, a trust done by an attorney is the way to go.

There are a couple on this board who are preparing NFA trusts. I'm sure they'll be happy to contact you if you solicit for service.

[steve581581]

That's the crux of the question.

Lawyers can set up trusts, as part of their practice. Most NFA Trusts will run $350-600 depending on your lawyer.

Then there is the Quicken Willmaker software. They have been used in the past to make trusts that have passed the ATF inspection process.

The only *problem* that could arise is if your trust is declared invalid by the ATF. If that happens on your FIRST application, it's not a big deal. Just revise your trust and re-submit.

If however, as has happened, it is declared invalid on a subsequent application, then you run into issues. It can get VERY expensive to fight off the ATF and the AG's office. If you did your trust yourself, then you have to hire a lawyer to defend you. If you have a trust prepared by a lawyer, then it is their responsibility to repair the trust and iron things out with the ATF.

In my opinion, a trust done by an attorney is the way to go.

There are a couple on this board who are preparing NFA trusts. I'm sure they'll be happy to contact you if you solicit for service.

Thanks.

[boxhdn]

That's the crux of the question.

Lawyers can set up trusts, as part of their practice. Most NFA Trusts will run $350-600 depending on your lawyer.

In my opinion, a trust done by an attorney is the way to go.

There are a couple on this board who are preparing NFA trusts. I'm sure they'll be happy to contact you if you solicit for service.

Who are they?? I need a trust in order to get a couple of suppressors.

[trapdoorman]

Who are they?? I need a trust in order to get a couple of suppressors.

Click on Shyster's link, he was the first to respond in this thread. He is an attorney here in MI. and is providing NFA trusts.

Like others have said, an attorney who specializes in NFA trusts is highly recommended. You don't want to risk overlooking something while attempting to do it on your own.

[Roundballer]

Who are they?? I need a trust in order to get a couple of suppressors.
Read the signature line in post #2 of this thread and click on the hot link in the last sentence, or just click on the text in this post. That is one guy that will do it. You might be able to find someone closer to home if you talk to your local NFA dealer. (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=147300)

[dekulaw]

I would suggest that this information is applicable to the procurement and ownership of any NFA Firearms. In Michigan that is presently restricted to silencers and machine guns.

What is a NFA Firearms Trust and why should I use one?

A trust is a formal agreement through which a "settlor" (the title comes from the MI Trust Code) transfers and conveys the ownership rights (title) to one or more assets to one or more trustees for conservation and protection on behalf of one or more beneficiaries of the trust. The trustee can be the settlor and/or others that he/she designates, and the trust may provide for the use and control of the assets at the discretion of the settlor while he/she is alive and after his/her death. A trust, through the trustee, may add assets to the trust after it is established. The trust agreement normally states the (1) purpose for which the trust was established and fulfillment of which will terminate the trust, (2) identification of the assets placed in the trust, (3) powers and limitations of the trustees, their reporting requirements, and other associated provisions regarding the trustees powers, the allowable uses of the property, and who may use the property, (4) and may also specify the trustees' qualifications, the duration of the trustee's powers, and what events or situations would require the trustee to be removed, if any, and (5) the trust puts forth the settlor's wishes as to the distribution of the assets upon his/her death.

The trust is able to transact business through the trustee(s) who signs things as, for example, "Joe Citizen, Trustee of the Citizen NFA Firearms Trust under an agreement dated 3-9-2012", much like a corporation president sign things in the "Joe CEO, President"capacity. A NFA Firearms Trust is a trust set up specifically purchase, own, and transfer NFA firearms. The NFA and Gun Control Act regulate how the trustee, or person, can possess and transfer NFA firearms. There is too much information regarding transfer rules to put it in here so I will leave that for further discussion. Shyster is absolutely correct as to how you purchase (transfer from the Class III dealer to you) NFA firearms. I would add that the trust needs to be established before your purchase the NFA firearm as the trust is the "transferee" on the ATF Form 4. Purchasing the NFA firearm first as an indiviual and then transferring it to your trust requires another ATF Form 4 and $200.00 more dollars. rjrivero is right on the money about the privacy of trusts. The Michigan Trust Code does not require the registration of trusts.

Shyster mentions that the beneficiaries can use the firearms without direct supervision. This is really important and I think the best reason and advantage to the ownership of NFA firearms by trust. The person named on the ATF Form 4 as the "transferee" is the only person allowed to "possess" the firearm being registered. A trust is a person per ATF Form 4 and the laws underlying it. When a trust, instead of an individual, is the ATF Form 4 transferee then the trustee, co-trustees and beneficiaries are all legal to possess the NFA firearm, with some other rules relating to possession by minors. The trust provides an umbrella of protection to your wife, husband, kids, and other loved ones who live with you from allegations of "constructive possession" of the regulated firearm. A 10 year federal felony and a 5 year Michigan felony. This is a long answer and I would suggest you visit my website at http://www.dekulaw.com (http://www.dekulaw.com) for more information and legal materials explaining this process.

The most important thing everyone should consider is that a little insurance, like a trust, whether done by me or another attorney, goes a long way toward peace of mind and the protection of your loved ones. You have all heard of the horror stories of law enforcement contact because a neighbor heard you and your wife arguing, and the DNR is quite strict in how they interpret and enforce the laws out in the field. It would greatly help NFA firearm owners to have a legal beagle they can call with questions or, God forbid, call when there is law enforcement contact and there are inquiries as to the "can" on your dining room table. Now that is more than you probably wanted to know but it gives you an idea of why a trust should be done by an attorney and not a computer program.

John V. Deku
John V. Deku, PLC
6530 Secor Road, Suite 6
Lambertville, Michigan 48144
(734) 854-4535

dekulaw@sbcglobal.net

[PaulB84]

is there a limit to the number of beneficiaries you can name in a trust?

[Shyster]

No