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View Full Version : Best machine gun for INVESTMENT vs. SHOOTING?



CrimDoc
06-19-2012, 09:47 PM
Hey folks,

For those of you who have had experience with Class 3 firearms, I'm curious what type of firearm you would recommend as 1) an investment purchase (that's most likely to appreciate in value) and 2) a fun shooting purchase.

I'm thinking that as a fun shooter, a .22 LR would be the best choice, simply by virtue of the cost of ammo. As an investment grade firearm ... perhaps something like a Thompson, a classic machine gun that everyone (gun enthusiast or not) knows (and presumably wants).

Thoughts?

mopedman
06-19-2012, 10:10 PM
Hey folks,

For those of you who have had experience with Class 3 firearms, I'm curious what type of firearm you would recommend as 1) an investment purchase (that's most likely to appreciate in value) and 2) a fun shooting purchase.

I'm thinking that as a fun shooter, a .22 LR would be the best choice, simply by virtue of the cost of ammo. As an investment grade firearm ... perhaps something like a Thompson, a classic machine gun that everyone (gun enthusiast or not) knows (and presumably wants).

Thoughts?

Thompsons are very fun and reliable firearms. But they will run you a good chunk of change.
Here is a video of me shooting one on Fathers day.
http://youtu.be/eyjD0uDdNv0

DP425
06-19-2012, 10:57 PM
This is not based on any sort of fact, or even knowledge on NFA F/A guns...

But I would think the guns that will really gain in value would be the heavy hitters, especially those that are in limited supply- think FN MINIMI, FN MAG, M60, M136. That's what I would assume would be the ones that will go up in value fairly well

mini4m3
06-20-2012, 12:20 AM
This is not based on any sort of fact, or even knowledge on NFA F/A guns...

But I would think the guns that will really gain in value would be the heavy hitters, especially those that are in limited supply- think FN MINIMI, FN MAG, M60, M136. That's what I would assume would be the ones that will go up in value fairly well

Strictly running the numbers... the guns that are a good investment are the ones that only exists in small numbers in the NFA registry.

A good gun to shoot up is something with lots of aftermarket parts, cheap, lots of in the registry.

A good 'to shoot gun' perhaps the best is a M11/9, mac 11 in 9mm. Tons of aftermarket parts, cheap 9mm to shoot, totally customizable with a Lage upper (turn a cheap steel weld job into a tactical and usable MG).

durus5995
06-20-2012, 12:40 AM
If you are looking for a shooter MG why not look into some sort of M16? If you wear out an upper (unlikely) you can just slap a new one on and you are good to go. For a collector piece I am a sucker for a belt fed perhaps a 1919a4? You can convert them to several calibers.

klyph12
06-20-2012, 10:40 AM
If the trend continues, anything you buy will increase in value by 5-20% per year, depending on the economy. Some of the weapons mentioned above might earn you more per year, but will require a much larger initial purchase price. NFA prices bottomed out a couple of years ago and are inching back up now.

I personally can not see the value of buying a Ferrari and putting it up on blocks. I suggest you buy something that has a reliable 22 conversion kit, you will use that a lot more. 22s are easier for new shooters to safely handle (not to mention easier on your wallet) when you bring it out for others to shoot. They (22 kits) require a less elaborate range. The option is always there to put the original upper on or run the weapon with out the 22 kit.

If you plan on using your NFA weapon in some of the matches we are organizing here in MI, then stick to subguns in pistol caliber. Again smaller range required, cheaper to run.

I have an M11/9 with a Lage Max-11 upper and a Lage 22 kit and it is a blast to shoot and it will still increase in value.

That is the true beauty of NFA, there are a finite number of them and all should increase in value if you shoot them or not.

Apoma
06-23-2012, 04:01 PM
+ 1 for a 1919A4

mini4m3
06-23-2012, 04:40 PM
+ 1 for a 1919A4

How is this good for investment or shooting?

30-06/308 isn't cheap anymore and most of the 1919A4s out there are rewelds or izzy.

On top of that who wants to carry an A4 around

CrimDoc
06-23-2012, 07:08 PM
An UZI with a .22LR conversion kit seems to be looking like a pretty good choice, considering it can be had under $10K.

Has anyone dealt with any of the Class 3 dealers here in Michigan?

mini4m3
06-23-2012, 07:10 PM
An UZI with a .22LR conversion kit seems to be looking like a pretty good choice, considering it can be had under $10K.

Has anyone dealt with any of the Class 3 dealers here in Michigan?

Yes. I've done business with three different people and have shot with many more.

CrimDoc
06-23-2012, 07:47 PM
Is there any particular one who you would recommend?


Yes. I've done business with three different people and have shot with many more.

mini4m3
06-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Is there any particular one who you would recommend?

Arndt Weierstahl - Flint Area (specifically Owosso)

GB2 Tactical - SE Detroit Area

Jake Mackenzie - WashCo Area

They've all been very good to me and my money.

donald150
06-23-2012, 08:16 PM
I would think that the ones best suited for investment (largest return of money) would be the ones already out of my reach financially.

Even if a UZI doubled in value what are you looking a making $8K?

I would think that a $30,000 Thompson would be more likely to increase by $8,000 than a $8,000 UZI.

I would buy something that I would and could shoot the crap out of.

Rendorseg
06-23-2012, 09:15 PM
Here's a good source of information for machinegun prices.

http://machinegunpriceguide.com/html/subguns.html

You can see for yourself the trends associated with buying them and which ones are going up in price. As others have said, too bad you were not looking to buy a couple of years ago. The prices have started going up since the demand is going up.

A Registered Receiver UZI like a Group Industries registered in 9mm, .45, and .22 is a good choice. You can buy .22 conversion bolt, barrel and magazine from:

http://www.subgun-ordnance.com/ConversionKits.html

I'll also suggest Uzitalk.com there is a lot of good information on many types of machineguns, not just UZI's.

GarrettJ
06-24-2012, 02:17 PM
I would think that the ones best suited for investment (largest return of money) would be the ones already out of my reach financially.

Even if a UZI doubled in value what are you looking a making $8K?

I would think that a $30,000 Thompson would be more likely to increase by $8,000 than a $8,000 UZI.
Okay, so if you have around $30K, why not buy four Uzis? Now which is going to appreciate more?
I remember in the late '90s when guys were buying 3 or 4 brand new guns from Vector. They would shoot the snot out of one and put the rest in the safe. A few years later, they would sell one for double what they paid originally, essentially getting one gun for free.

Of course, that was when you could buy them new for $2500. Prices on converted IMI guns or the handful of completed Group guns had been around $4500, but prices dropped when Vector released an additional 3300 transferable guns into circulation.

The day Vector sold their last registered Uzi, prices jumped by $1000. Prices are not doubling in 2 or 3 years any more. And the Vector situation was a little unique. Unless Reed Knight starts selling off his pallets of NIB guns, I don't expect to see that situation again.

So of you are looking for an investment, is one high end gun going to appreciate faster than a few medium / low end guns? I don't have the answer to that.

I also remember seeing a pallet of mixed MAC type guns offered for sale in the late '90s. The whole pallet was priced around $100k, which put the per-unit price around $700 or so. I remember thinking that wouldn't be a bad way to go. If you had to take out a loan to buy the inventory, you would just have to sell one per month to pay the interest. Price them a couple hundred below the going rate and they would sell well enough. And if you sit on the rest long enough, the market price would increase fast enough that you would make out just fine by the time you sold the last gun.

I thought about it a while. But in the end, I was a poor college student at the time. The bigger issue was that I did not already have an FFL/SOT. So it would have been difficult to convince a bank to give me a small business loan when I did not yet even have a business set up.

In the end, you're better off buying what you want to have. Shoot the snot out of it. It's not going to loose any value in the long run.

freakinhugebear
07-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Cheely gun works is very good to deal with, he walked me through a silencer purchase like it was a library card application.

freakinhugebear
07-03-2012, 09:36 PM
I was in the market for an auto m16 at one point. Then, although I was doubtful of all the hype, I purchased a slide fire stock for my ak. Let's just say I no longer have any desire to pay 15-20k, kiss the atf's butt and say thank you sir for an auto. Much to my surprise the ss stocks work almost as easy as pulling a trigger and I have one on my m4 as well. I would post a link to a YouTube vid of me shooting the ak variant, but I am to fresh on the forum apparently so pm if you are interested.

Now the whole point of this post is not to advertise for the ss stocks, mostly it is to bring up the consideration of the investment of a registered machine gun. I think there are a lot of others out there like me who are willing to settle for a non registered slide fire for $300 rather than 20k of federal fornication. I think the slide fire stock market is a little fresh to see the long term effects on the automatic market, but I believe it will decrease the demand in the long term and only time will tell if that will have an effect on prices. Point being that the federal registered machine gun is no longer the only dog in the race. Just my opinion of the matter.

Wolvee
07-03-2012, 10:10 PM
I'm building up a collection right now for the sole purpose of being able to it off in a few years to get either a sear for an MP5 which are currently running $11-15k or maybe a FA colt.

Good luck with it. It seems pretty overwhelming.

Jailer
07-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Okay, so if you have around $30K, why not buy four Uzis? Now which is going to appreciate more?
I remember in the late '90s when guys were buying 3 or 4 brand new guns from Vector. They would shoot the snot out of one and put the rest in the safe. A few years later, they would sell one for double what they paid originally, essentially getting one gun for free.

Of course, that was when you could buy them new for $2500. Prices on converted IMI guns or the handful of completed Group guns had been around $4500, but prices dropped when Vector released an additional 3300 transferable guns into circulation.

The day Vector sold their last registered Uzi, prices jumped by $1000. Prices are not doubling in 2 or 3 years any more. And the Vector situation was a little unique. Unless Reed Knight starts selling off his pallets of NIB guns, I don't expect to see that situation again.

So of you are looking for an investment, is one high end gun going to appreciate faster than a few medium / low end guns? I don't have the answer to that.

I also remember seeing a pallet of mixed MAC type guns offered for sale in the late '90s. The whole pallet was priced around $100k, which put the per-unit price around $700 or so. I remember thinking that wouldn't be a bad way to go. If you had to take out a loan to buy the inventory, you would just have to sell one per month to pay the interest. Price them a couple hundred below the going rate and they would sell well enough. And if you sit on the rest long enough, thecan market price would increase fastburning enough that you would make out just fine by the time you sold the last gun.

I thought about it a while. But in the end, I was a poor college student at the time. The bigger issue was that I did not already have an FFL/SOT. So it would have been difficult to convince a bank to give me a small business loan when I did not yet even have a business set up.

In the end, you're better off buying what you want to have. Shoot the snot out of it. It's not going to loose any value in the long run.

Anyone following this thread needs to pay attention to this post. There are a lot of registered MG's out there stowed away and not in circulation. I know of one person with a rather substantial collection sitting on several hundred Mg's waiting for the opportune time to release them into circulation, enough of them that it would substantially affect the market price if he released them all at once.

You just can't buy any one MG and expect it to be a big money maker. They will go up in value but how much is anyone's guess.

GarrettJ, I would bet that the pallet you saw was sold by the guy I'm referring to. If it was, than he more than tripled his money on that sale. ;)