Econo can!

[shifty_85]

haiqFcIXTqs

is this worth the tax stamp?? looks like it works very well.

kind of a neat idea. just be a little hard to aim.

[pkuptruck]

this was posted some time ago..

(my seaching-google-** aint working too gooder right now...)

[Yooper55]

You're still paying for a 200.00 tax stamp. That just looks to trashy for my firearms. Though it may work, it would not drown out the snickers from the others at the range. Just my $0.02 worth of thought.

[shifty_85]

ya for the price of the stamp i could have my buddy make me a real one for free. i love friends with mills/leaths and CNC machines at work :)

[gwc1975]

It does work and it does look horrible on the end of your gun. It is what you call a great throw away suppressor.

[shifty_85]

It does work and it does look horrible on the end of your gun. It is what you call a great throw away suppressor.

would be great on my hi-point M995 since its a throw away brand eh?

[gwc1975]

would be great on my hi-point M995 since its a throw away brand eh?


I wouldn't call the Hipoint a throw away brand. I have had a few. They are ugly and weigh a lot but they never failed to fire for me. The econo can is cheap to make and easy to throw away when done with it. Make one and have fun!

[shifty_85]

I wouldn't call the Hipoint a throw away brand. I have had a few. They are ugly and weigh a lot but they never failed to fire for me. The econo can is cheap to make and easy to throw away when done with it. Make one and have fun!

yeah alot of people say a hi-point is a throw away because of price.

my buddy has a .45 hand gun man that thing is acc. but it is bulky and UGLY but it goes bang everytime

[backhandman]

Just thinking about a cheap go-bag / survival kit. If you can get a couple its perfect.

[Yooper55]

If one will fit most firearms then it might not be a bad idea. Rather than having a suppressor for your 22, 9mm, 40 cal. etc. in that case I think it would be worth it even if people snickered.

[gwc1975]

If one will fit most firearms then it might not be a bad idea. Rather than having a suppressor for your 22, 9mm, 40 cal. etc. in that case I think it would be worth it even if people snickered.


Auto parts stores do sell all different size lengths and diameter oil filters. I haven't tried the small riding lawn mower ones yet to see how they suppressed the sound.

[Yooper55]

Auto parts stores do sell all different size lengths and diameter oil filters. I haven't tried the small riding lawn mower ones yet to see how they suppressed the sound.
True I know many if not most filters will thread on, but I was referring to the part that threads on to the barrel. Is it for all size of calibers or do you need to buy it for a specific round/weapon.?

[HemiChallenger]

I may just be able to afford a suppressor now!

[Dansjeep2000]

True I know many if not most filters will thread on, but I was referring to the part that threads on to the barrel. Is it for all size of calibers or do you need to buy it for a specific round/weapon.?
Depends on the threads. 1/2x28 will fit ALOT of firearms. .22lr, .223 (5.56), 9mm, ect...

[rjrivero]

Depends on the threads. 1/2x28 will fit ALOT of firearms. .22lr, .223 (5.56), 9mm, ect...
The econo can is threaded 1/2x28. http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/

You could also get their "Solvent Trap" and then submit a Form 1 on it, and make it a suppressor. You would have to engrave it though as you would any Form 1 suppressor. They make the solvent trap for different thread patterns.

RJ

[gwc1975]

True I know many if not most filters will thread on, but I was referring to the part that threads on to the barrel. Is it for all size of calibers or do you need to buy it for a specific round/weapon.?


.........

[shifty_85]

my new Saiga 12 has threads id need quite a big filter to make a 12 gauge boom quite haha

[IndustrialRescue]

There are MUCH better options, for not much more money, that look better, and work better. Also, what happens when Anti Toys and Freedom decides that the oil filter is a ''suppressor part?''

Since they make up the rules as they go, you could very well end up screwed down the road.

Plus, the oil filter vents right back at the shooter, defeating the purpose of a suppressor in the first place. At best, it'll only knock off 10 to 20 decibels, and you can't even see over it, to ensure your rounds are safely going downrange.

There ARE decent silencers out there, for around 200 bucks. No, they aren't the BEST silencers, but they work, and you'll be getting 25 to 30 decibels of noise reduction. Www.libertycans.com

or, if money is really tight, keep your eyes open at class 3 dealers when they take in a MAC machine gun. A lot of times, they will GIVE the factory MAC can away, as they're old, not great technology. You just pay the tax stamp. But again, the cans aren't great.

Now, if silencers weren't regulated, then SURE, the oil filter adapter would be kinda cool and fun. But then again, if silencers weren't regulated, most guns would come from the manufacturer with one!

[ZYA_LTR]

The other issue/concern is, that you are sacrificing long term quality for short term savings.....If you consider a suppresor as a lifetime purchase, over the life of the suppressor, you will spend more money on all the oil filters you would buy, as opposed to just spending the money up front and buying a quality take apart suppressor that will last and perform much better, and allow you to clean/maintain it.

[HemiChallenger]

For those of us who get free oil filters its a non issue!

Could imagine all the experimentation with different size filters and chemicals sprayed/wiped into the filter to further suppress your firearm?

[Revdrshad]

Plus, the oil filter vents right back at the shooter, defeating the purpose of a suppressor in the first place. At best, it'll only knock off 10 to 20 decibels, and you can't even see over it, to ensure your rounds are safely going downrange.



Not on these ones. The threaded "ring-adapter" actually covers all the oil ports. That way you won't get any venting type issues. Also IIRC the website shows the best brands and sizes of oil filter to use.

I read somewhere (Silencertalk maybe?) that Cadiz took these to a big silencer shoot and basically the other "real" manufacturers were very... Worried...

[rjrivero]

Not on these ones. The threaded "ring-adapter" actually covers all the oil ports. That way you won't get any venting type issues. Also IIRC the website shows the best brands and sizes of oil filter to use.

I read somewhere (Silencertalk maybe?) that Cadiz took these to a big silencer shoot and basically the other "real" manufacturers were very... Worried...
Likely forum.saiga-12.com

We have these at Adco. I paid for it out of my own pocket just to play with it. It really does suppress well. It'll do .22 all day, but .223 after a mag the filter is spent.

The other thing is that the paper from the filter can blow back into the action of an AR. The new one has a disclaimer sticker on it. (I haven't had that problem, but I don't use it on .223 a whole lot either.)

[IndustrialRescue]

For those of us who get free oil filters its a non issue!

Could imagine all the experimentation with different size filters and chemicals sprayed/wiped into the filter to further suppress your firearm?

To have said chemicals, and possibly gasses from said chemicals combusting, blown right back into my face, eyes, and lungs? What a terrible idea...

Again, what happens when the ATF changes their minds, and declares oil filters a suppressor part? They at one point declared shoelaces as machine guns!

Or, what if for some reason, your free oil filters become scarce, or no longer free? 1000 bucks for a quality silencer keeps looking better and better...

The whole point behind the adapter, was a nifty way to originally make an illegal, unregistered silencer. For that purpose, it makes sense. Some folks capitalized on the idea, and registered them. But when you pay the money for it, for just a bit more, you could have a real silencer.

[HemiChallenger]

To have said chemicals, and possibly gasses from said chemicals combusting, blown right back into my face, eyes, and lungs? What a terrible idea...

.

I guess all that stuff coming back through the paper element is why theyre so loud...

Question do you know how an oil filter works and the pressures theyre designed to withstand?

Have to agree with you on the ATF. Who knows how they feel one day from the next.

I think the main attraction for this is .22's and small calibers. Rifle rounds its not ideal with.

[cazman1954]

It looks interesting, paint the oil filter black....

As stated gasses will not blow back as the adapter covers the return oil holes.

Oil Filter Cut Away Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQ2LbHGSy0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[IndustrialRescue]

It looks interesting, paint the oil filter black....

As stated gasses will not blow back as the adapter covers the return oil holes.

Oil Filter Cut Away Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQ2LbHGSy0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Yeah, that plate worked SO well with the Krinkov...:thumbup:

[HemiChallenger]

The oil filter on the krink was a really really cheap diesel filter without adaptor cover. Most have them.

[shifty_85]

i work on semi trucks and had to laugh because you could prob suppress a .50BMG with this bad boy!!!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/Mobile%20Uploads/0730121914.jpg

i know it holds a ton of oil ive dropd one before!

[ZYA_LTR]

And even empty i bet it weighs more than the gun you screw it on.

[shifty_85]

And even empty i bet it weighs more than the gun you screw it on.

Weights 4.2 lbs. hahaha

http://www.drillspot.com/products/466937/Baldwin_Filters_B99_Full-Flow_Lube_Filter

they are huge one day i was fixing a light and i heard "dammit" *CLINK* roll roll roll roll roll. another person at the shop was taking the oil filter off they lost it and it rolled across the shop and oil was EVERYWERE!

[IndustrialRescue]

i work on semi trucks and had to laugh because you could prob suppress a .50BMG with this bad boy!!!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/Mobile%20Uploads/0730121914.jpg

i know it holds a ton of oil ive dropd one before!


Get a 50bmg and find out. I am willing to bet that VERY bad things happen. There aren't too many successful Form 1 50 bmg cans that have been made, and the few 50 cans out there are made of MUCH thicker material.

I'm willing to bet that it explodes. If it doesn't explode, it will most likely end up somewhere downrange.

No, you can't use my 50 bmg for testing... Lol

[shifty_85]

oh ya im sure it would.

Go to 26 seconds in.

qf_iIvx0Ta8

:bigun2:

[ZYA_LTR]

Weights 4.2 lbs. hahaha

http://www.drillspot.com/products/466937/Baldwin_Filters_B99_Full-Flow_Lube_Filter

they are huge one day i was fixing a light and i heard "dammit" *CLINK* roll roll roll roll roll. another person at the shop was taking the oil filter off they lost it and it rolled across the shop and oil was EVERYWERE!

A heavy beast for sure, probably turns anything into a benchrest gun....hehe

Nice on the monster can disintegration.

[fmkenner]

This idea is bad all around. If you read the site it sells you the adapter with the can, and they both have serial numbers. They sort of imply you can just replace the can, you cant and be legal about it. They will even sell you the adapter as some sort of oil trap to capture oil when you clean your gun. You really dont want this kind of trouble. Lose your gun rights over this. Heres the site so you can re-read it.
http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/

[IndustrialRescue]

This idea is bad all around. If you read the site it sells you the adapter with the can, and they both have serial numbers. They sort of imply you can just replace the can, you cant and be legal about it. They will even sell you the adapter as some sort of oil trap to capture oil when you clean your gun. You really dont want this kind of trouble. Lose your gun rights over this. Heres the site so you can re-read it.
http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/
That's what I've been saying all along. The ENTIRE point of the design is for people to easily make illegal, low quality silencers.

[Dansjeep2000]

What do they charge for the regular solvent trap version? Its not listed on the website.

[IndustrialRescue]

What do they charge for the regular solvent trap version? Its not listed on the website.

10 years and up to $250,000 when you get caught.

[Yooper55]

I bought a Spectre III, it went pending July 25. Do it legal, keep it legal. I ought to have it by Christmas, January or February.

[Hamsterstyle]

So they charge $85 for that thing shipped and then probably $25 for the transfer from your ffl. I'm assuming there is a ffl transfer fee. So you're at $110 For a threaded adapter and an oil filter. The oil filter has to be replaced quite often I'd assume. At $3-$10 each time that will add up quick. There are 22 suppressors out there for under $200 that are 100% legal and cleanable and serviceable. Why risk 10 years in prison on a gamble? To each his own I guess but in order to save $50-$70 bucks it's just not worth it to me.

[backhandman]

i had a crazy idea just trickle into my head. Maybe this has been disgussed yet. but with the Econo can being nothing but a registered thread adapter and thus being the suppressor, allowing the oil filters to be interchangable. Can I machine some baffles and a tube that can screw onto the adapter and nothing but the adapter? The way i see it. and hopefully the ATF sees it, its not a suppressor untill it can be attached to the firearm. So with the adapter being the registered suppressor, why not make an acutal can with k baffles instead of using a oil filter.

thoughts?

[HoldHard]

i had a crazy idea just trickle into my head. Maybe this has been disgussed yet. but with the Econo can being nothing but a registered thread adapter and thus being the suppressor, allowing the oil filters to be interchangable. Can I machine some baffles and a tube that can screw onto the adapter and nothing but the adapter? The way i see it. and hopefully the ATF sees it, its not a suppressor untill it can be attached to the firearm. So with the adapter being the registered suppressor, why not make an acutal can with k baffles instead of using a oil filter.

thoughts?
You are kidding... right? (unless you have a manufacturers license)

[backhandman]

are you kidding? is the oil filter a registered suppressor? No. So why isnt a machined device that only threads on with a registered adapter any different? please explain why I would need a manufacturers license just to switch oil filters. its the same thing.

[rjrivero]

i had a crazy idea just trickle into my head. Maybe this has been disgussed yet. but with the Econo can being nothing but a registered thread adapter and thus being the suppressor, allowing the oil filters to be interchangable. Can I machine some baffles and a tube that can screw onto the adapter and nothing but the adapter? The way i see it. and hopefully the ATF sees it, its not a suppressor untill it can be attached to the firearm. So with the adapter being the registered suppressor, why not make an acutal can with k baffles instead of using a oil filter.

thoughts?You are kidding... right? (unless you have a manufacturers license)are you kidding? is the oil filter a registered suppressor? No. So why isnt a machined device that only threads on with a registered adapter any different? please explain why I would need a manufacturers license just to switch oil filters. its the same thing.

You could do a form 1. The issue is that the ATF says that any part of a silencer is itself a silencer.

I believe the reason that these econo-can can bypass this "rule" is because of the fact that the econo-can uses a common use item for it's baffle system. If not for the common use, each oil filter would be a baffle system and therefore itself a silencer.

You could always ask Cadiz for the verification letter from the ATF stating that these are legal and the official ATF opinion on the item, but what you're proposing is fine, if you want to make a suppressor on a form 1. However, if you have extra baffles or tubes or endcaps, you will have extra "suppressors" per the ATF opinion. There is no "rule" on what part gets serialized. Just make sure your engraving meets the ATF requirements in ATF 5320.8.

If however, your goal is to make a baffle stack for the Cadiz Registered Adapter, that is an interesting question, but I would not bother. The threads for attachment are not ideal for keeping things concentric. The legalities of such a proposal are beyond my understanding of the NFA laws themselves. It would be an interesting letter to write to the ATF.

Regards.

RJ

[fmkenner]

are you kidding? is the oil filter a registered suppressor? No. So why isnt a machined device that only threads on with a registered adapter any different? please explain why I would need a manufacturers license just to switch oil filters. its the same thing.

You are mistaken sir. On the web site it clearly says the adapter serial numbers match the serial numbers on the oil filter they provide. Dont get the idea that you can just change oil filters. You can but would you really want to chance it? If its too good to be true than it is a bad idea. A lesson thats learned all the time.

[backhandman]

You are mistaken sir. On the web site it clearly says the adapter serial numbers match the serial numbers on the oil filter they provide. Dont get the idea that you can just change oil filters. You can but would you really want to chance it? If its too good to be true than it is a bad idea. A lesson thats learned all the time.

please give me a link. you must be looking somewhere diffrent. this is what I see i dont see where it includes a oil filter.

The Econo-Can Patent Pending

This is a legal and registered silencer that is patent pending. It is an adapter that uses a removable expansion chamber aka a car oil filter. In our opinion this device is as quiet as any 22lr silencer we have ever tested. The is a registered silencer and must be treated as such. The adapter is threaded 1/2-28. This is a NFA item and all NFA rules and regulations apply. We are licensed by CGW to manufacture this suppressor.

Price-$75.00 Call for orders

[backhandman]

never mind. i was actualy looking at the website the sells the item. not the website that dosent sell it....

[fmkenner]

never mind. i was actualy looking at the website the sells the item. not the website that dosent sell it....


I just dont want to see honest ppl get mixed up into something completly innocent on there behave, and have it bite them in the ass.
I posted the link before, and I will post again. Read how they say both oil filter and adapter are serial numbered. Also in that same site they will just sell the adapter to help you clean your gun, without registered.

http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/

[maustin195]

I just dont want to see honest ppl get mixed up into something completly innocent on there behave, and have it bite them in the ass.
I posted the link before, and I will post again. Read how they say both oil filter and adapter are serial numbered. Also in that same site they will just sell the adapter to help you clean your gun, without registered.

http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/
I don't read their website as saying that the filter will have a serial #, it says they will share 1 #. Silencerco says that their silencers have the serial # on the adapter incase of a baffle strike. They say the baffles can be replaced without having to pay the $200 gov. fee because they are not the registered part. How would thay be possible but not be able to replace the filter without paying a fee?

[Zane]

I don't read their website as saying that the filter will have a serial #, it says they will share 1 #. Silencerco says that their silencers have the serial # on the adapter incase of a baffle strike. They say the baffles can be replaced without having to pay the $200 gov. fee because they are not the registered part. How would thay be possible but not be able to replace the filter without paying a fee?

Silcenerco has an 07/02. That lets them make the repairs.

Edited to add: Remember that the ATF also says that you can't replace the disposable copper baffles in your old can without an 07/02 and that even possession of Chore Boy in some regards could be construed as intent.

The second page of an ATF opinion was posted on Reddit today by an FFL with an 03 SOT. It is on point to this product. Here is a link to the image he posted: http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg

It fits what many have thought regarding the oil filter adapter: The ATF says you can't replace the oil filter. I make no warranty on the validity of the letter. Here is where is came from: http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/10siyf/asking_the_atf_a_question_is_kinda_like_going_to/

Edited again to add: I misunderstood where he got the letter. It looks like he was obscuring the name and address of the questioner with the AAC and Silencerco logos. Who asked the question is not known, but I assume it was the guy who posted it.

[fmkenner]

Silcenerco has an 07/02. That lets them make the repairs.

Edited to add: Remember that the ATF also says that you can't replace the disposable copper baffles in your old can without an 07/02 and the even possession of Chore Boy is some regards could be construed as intent.

The second page of an ATF opinion was posted on Reddit today by an FFL with an 03 SOT. He claims it came from Silencerco. He did not supply page 1. Here is a link to the image he posted: http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg

It fits what many have thought regarding the oil filter adapter: The ATF says you can't replace the oil filter. I make no warranty on the validity of the letter. Here is where is came from: http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/10siyf/asking_the_atf_a_question_is_kinda_like_going_to/

Thanks for posting that. Alot of ppl thought it was going that way. Didnt want to see anyone get into trouble over this idea. Makes you wonder if they were trying to make money on it or get the idea out. I imagine the adapter is just another hardware part. So this real cheap suppressor just got expensive.

[shifty_85]

oh wow so you cant just swap out filters eh? once the first one is shot out you have somthing to help you clean eh?

and how does it help you clean?

[IndustrialRescue]

oh wow so you cant just swap out filters eh? once the first one is shot out you have somthing to help you clean eh?

and how does it help you clean?

No, you cannot swap out filters.

And some folks CLAIM that it allows you to collect used solvent, so as not to make a mess. Wink, Wink.

They KNOW that folks who order it are making illegal silencers, AND THAT'S THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THE DEVICE. It's simply marketed as a solvent trap adapter, so that folks can "get around" the ATF.

The same idea was behind the Drop in Auto Sears for sale in Shotgun News for the longest time. ATF finally got around to arresting the guy, after he sold a TON. The ATF then proceeded to track down every person they could, who purchased one, and confiscated them, and arrested a ton of people.

They are all now looking at getting 10 years in prison each.

The ATF is keeping a close eye on this device, and will at some point, decide to bust everybody involved.

Don't mess around with "gray areas" in regard to the NFA.

[shifty_85]

ya i didnt plan on it.

wonder how long till the ATF comes down on exploding targets and slide fire stocks.

[maustin195]

oh wow so you cant just swap out filters eh? once the first one is shot out you have somthing to help you clean eh?

and how does it help you clean?
Once the filter is shot out the registered adapter and filter are sent back to the manufacturer. For $25 they destroy the filter and give you a new one with a matching serial #. Follow these rules and stay legal, put a filter not registered on and you have broken federal laws.

[IndustrialRescue]

Once the filter is shot out the registered adapter and filter are sent back to the manufacturer. For $25 they destroy the filter and give you a new one with a matching serial #. Follow these rules and stay legal, put a filter not registered on and you have broken federal laws.

Legally they CANNOT do that. Can't copy the serial from an earlier part, destroy the can, and stamp the serial onto the replacement. The manufacturers USED to be able to do this, up until the ATF decided they couldn't.

IF the ATF opinion has changed, at least in this instance, charging $25 for the repair, when most other cans have a lifetime warranty, seems odd.

On top of that, the oil filter will only last for a few rounds. Far less than 100. So you'll be sending it back constantly.

It's cheaper, easier, and DEFINITELY legal to just buy a real silencer.

[fmkenner]

The market for suppressors is getting bigger with alot of options with a varity of prices. Huntertown Arms puts out low cost options and there are plenty of higher cost options. If your going to do the 6 month wait think of it as an investment.

[rjrivero]

Legally they CANNOT do that. Can't copy the serial from an earlier part, destroy the can, and stamp the serial onto the replacement. The manufacturers USED to be able to do this, up until the ATF decided they couldn't.

IF the ATF opinion has changed, at least in this instance, charging $25 for the repair, when most other cans have a lifetime warranty, seems odd.

On top of that, the oil filter will only last for a few rounds. Far less than 100. So you'll be sending it back constantly.

It's cheaper, easier, and DEFINITELY legal to just buy a real silencer.
The serialed part doesn't change. Everything else CAN be changed by a 07 MFG. Just because it bears a number doesn't make that the registered part. FWIW, the "serial number" on the filter(s) is written in sharpie.

[rjrivero]

The market for suppressors is getting bigger with alot of options with a varity of prices. Huntertown Arms puts out low cost options and there are plenty of higher cost options. If your going to do the 6 month wait think of it as an investment.
Agreed