damaging a class 3 weapon and how to fix?

[pbnationrc]

I was wondering, since new class 3 weapons can't be built or bought, what happens if you somehow damage your class 4 weapon.

Say you drop your ar-15 class 3 and it falls down a cliff. Crazy but what if.

Can you buy parts to repair it? How about the registered part? I would think the handgaurd is ok to replace, but the registered part?

What can you do?

Whooaa, I meant Class 3! haha

[rjrivero]

I was wondering, since new class 4 weapons can't be built or bought, what happens if you somehow damage your class 4 weapon.

Say you drop your ar-15 class 4 and it falls down a cliff. Crazy but what if.

Can you buy parts to repair it? How about the registered part? I would think the handgaurd is ok to replace, but the registered part?

What can you do?
What is a "Class 4 weapon?" I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to be sure we are on the same page. You give an example of an "ar-15 class 4" but that still doesn't help me understand what you're talking about.

[jm0502]

There are company's that do work on class 3 rifles. They can repair a completely broken auto sear, or any other class 3 part.

[pbnationrc]

What is a "Class 4 weapon?" I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to be sure we are on the same page. You give an example of an "ar-15 class 4" but that still doesn't help me understand what you're talking about.


Thanks! yah, I meant class 3. Wayyy too many things on my mind right now!:sleep:

[shortbuss]

class 3 and "form" 4 are typically interchanged on many gun websites ive seen, so not to far off

[rjrivero]

NFA Firearms, or Title 2 firearms, including Machine guns, can be fixed by any Class 3 dealer.

"Class 3" is a dealer classification, not a firearm classification. That's why I was confused.

Carry on.....

[IndustrialRescue]

class 3 and "form" 4 are typically interchanged on many gun websites ive seen, so not to far off
I beg to differ. They aren't interchanged anywhere there are people who know what they're talking about...Your username is appropriate.

NFA firearms and silencers are NOT limited to just machine guns. You cannot build a new machine gun without an 07/02 sot/ffl.

If your machine gun reciever or sear is damaged, there are a few places that can weld it up. Bear in mind, welding aluminum is more an art form than anything else, and unless you trust Joebob's cousin's friend at the local welding shop... You will pay a LOT to get the repair done.

As for the other NFA classifications, you can fill out a form 1, and make another one, buy another on a Form 4, or send it off for repairs. ALL quality suppressor manufacturers provide a lifetime warranty, and will either repair it for free, or destroy the old silencer, and stamp an identical serial number onto a brand new can for you.

as for SBR/SBS, you can't yet have them in MI unless they have curio and relic status, and even then it's difficult. Aow, destructive devices, machine guns, and explosive devices are all ok though.

[Tango125INF11b]

I beg to differ. They aren't interchanged anywhere there are people who know what they're talking about...Your username is appropriate.



He's new. Ease up a bit.

[IndustrialRescue]

He's new. Ease up a bit.
Lol, ok.

[rjrivero]

I beg to differ. They aren't interchanged anywhere there are people who know what they're talking about...Your username is appropriate.

NFA firearms and silencers are NOT limited to just machine guns. You cannot build a new machine gun without an 07/02 sot/ffl.

If your machine gun reciever or sear is damaged, there are a few places that can weld it up. Bear in mind, welding aluminum is more an art form than anything else, and unless you trust Joebob's cousin's friend at the local welding shop... You will pay a LOT to get the repair done.

As for the other NFA classifications, you can fill out a form 1, and make another one, buy another on a Form 4, or send it off for repairs. ALL quality suppressor manufacturers provide a lifetime warranty, and will either repair it for free, or destroy the old silencer, and stamp an identical serial number onto a brand new can for you.

as for SBR/SBS, you can't yet have them in MI unless they have curio and relic status, and even then it's difficult. Aow, destructive devices, machine guns, and explosive devices are all ok though.
Please provide a citation where this can be done legally. If a serial numbered NFA Firearm is damaged beyond repair, one can NOT just make a new one with an old serial number and call it good. There (to my knowledge) is NO provision for this and it is, as far as I know, Illegal.

[Edward Pireh]

Please provide a citation where this can be done legally. If a serial numbered NFA Firearm is damaged beyond repair, one can NOT just make a new one with an old serial number and call it good. There (to my knowledge) is NO provision for this and it is, as far as I know, Illegal.

Correct!
The serial numbered part can be worked on if repairable. But if the serial numbered part is damaged beyond repair it can not be replaced.

As for the suppressors, most manufacturers will not warranty suppressors if shot on rifles with barrels shorter than 10". In MI, SBRs are a NO GO at this time, but if you own a registered machine gun (M-16 for example) you can have a 7.5" upper on it. Shooting with a suppressor on that short of a barrel will wear out the blast baffle and/or cause baffle strike, and in that case, most manufacturers (Thunder Beast is the exception) warranty is voided.

[pbnationrc]

Correct!
The serial numbered part can be worked on if repairable. But if the serial numbered part is damaged beyond repair it can not be replaced.

So whats the point of buying a $20,000 gun if the registered part breaks and you have a pile of parts only worth $100?

Or doesn't the parts break or wear out that fast?

The regestered part is the sear, right? How often do those ware out or break?

[DP425]

So whats the point of buying a $20,000 gun if the registered part breaks and you have a pile of parts only worth $100?

Or doesn't the parts break or ware out that fast?

The regestered part is the sear, right? How often do those ware out or break?

IN order the questions were asked:
The point is, you own one of a very limited supply; the costs to repair the machine gun are worth it when you consider the replacement costs to buy a new (to you) replacement. Example- AR15; you pay $15k for it and it needs welding repairs in the ballpark of $5k... are you going to repair it at a potential loss of $5k (bought for $15k, repaired @ $5k= 20K invested, value of $15k 20-15=5) from it, or are you going to trash it and go home being out $15k? Point is, the vast majority of machine guns can be repaired at a cost, but given how much they sell for, the cost is seldom not worth it.

Question 2- they usually don't wear out that fast. Takes on the order of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of rounds to typically wear them out.

Question 3- on most title 2 firearms, the registered part is the receiver- NOT the sear. You as an individual can buy M16 triggers and sears by the bucket load if you want, without any special paperwork... and you will not have a functioning machine gun. It is possible, if your AR was machined in a way to accept auto parts that it could be converted, which could land you in hot water... but the parts themselves are usually not the registered parts. There are some exceptions, such as the auto sear available for AR's... which is nothing more than a couple of stamped metal parts you drop into your AR and it turns the "fire" position into "auto". But, this is the exception, not the rule.

[pbnationrc]

IN order the questions were asked:
The point is, you own one of a very limited supply; the costs to repair the machine gun are worth it when you consider the replacement costs to buy a new (to you) replacement. Example- AR15; you pay $15k for it and it needs welding repairs in the ballpark of $5k... are you going to repair it at a potential loss of $5k (bought for $15k, repaired @ $5k= 20K invested, value of $15k 20-15=5) from it, or are you going to trash it and go home being out $15k? Point is, the vast majority of machine guns can be repaired at a cost, but given how much they sell for, the cost is seldom not worth it.

Question 2- they usually don't wear out that fast. Takes on the order of tens of thousands of rounds to typically wear them out.

Question 3- on most title 2 firearms, the registered part is the receiver- NOT the sear. You as an individual can buy M16 triggers and sears by the bucket load if you want, without any special paperwork... and you will not have a functioning machine gun. It is possible, if your AR was machined in a way to accept auto parts that it could be converted, which could land you in hot water... but the parts themselves are usually not the registered parts. There are some exceptions, such as the auto sear available for AR's... which is nothing more than a couple of stamped metal parts you drop into your AR and it turns the "fire" position into "auto". But, this is the exception, not the rule.

aaauugh, that makes a little more sense. I figure the receiver won't wear out too fast!

Thanks all for your help!
:rocketla:

[DP425]

aaauugh, that makes a little more sense. I figure the receiver won't ware out too fast!

Thanks all for your help!
:rocketla:

No problem! There is actually an issue with title 2 AR lowers; the hammer and sear pins rotate inside of the receiver- this is true on regular AR's as well... difference is, the title 2 lowers generally see many, many more rounds fired. This rotation has been known to open up the holes the pins are mounted in. The solution is usually larger pins. But, if you are familiar with AR's, you've likely seen KNS anti-rotation pin kits installed on rifles; this is the permeant solution to the problem... and the version with larger pins costs all of $35. So in some cases, repairs can end up being rather cheap. Naturally, other weapons have their own set of unique wear issues, which are usually not so easily solved, but you get the idea.

[jmacken37]

ALL quality suppressor manufacturers provide a lifetime warranty, and will either repair it for free, or destroy the old silencer, and stamp an identical serial number onto a brand new can for you.

The above is how this situation was handled historically, but the ATF have since ruled that this is a no-no. Most reputable manufacturer's will indeed replace cans, but if you own one, you're going to have to pay a second tax and transfer fee. Bummer, huh? This is one of the arguments in favor of SilencerCo's designs that are somewhat protective of the serialized parts.

FWIW, AAC replace an M42000 for me recently. As it was in my dealer stock, it was a straight swap and no tax was due. There WAS a new serial number, though.

Jake

[jmacken37]

As for the suppressors, most manufacturers will not warranty suppressors if shot on rifles with barrels shorter than 10".

Edward is correct on this point. The shorter barreled guns, especially when fired full auto are especially rough on suppressors. I've personally seen a triangular erosion through a rifle can fired on a 10.3" AR using a tri-prong QD FH. As a general rule, use a break on a shorter barreled rifle with a can. The break will serve as an additional "blast baffle."

Jake

[IndustrialRescue]

Please provide a citation where this can be done legally. If a serial numbered NFA Firearm is damaged beyond repair, one can NOT just make a new one with an old serial number and call it good. There (to my knowledge) is NO provision for this and it is, as far as I know, Illegal.

Sorry, I forgot to clarify.
Many manufacturers were doing this until recently, now they normally just trash the old one, and send you a new one. Sometimes they pay for the tax stamp, sometimes they don't.

AAC has been known to frequently hand out free silencers/mounts in the past, but you still had to pay the tax.

SilencerCo is a good design, as only the outer protective tube is serialized. Surefire goes one step further to serialize the "base" of the can, where it threads on, so that even if the bullet somehow left the can at a 90 degree angle, it would be repaired for free.

I am waiting on a SilencerCo Sparrow 22lr can, and a YHM 7.62 Ti QD can, which I can also use for 5.56. I am also planning on getting a SilencerCo Osprey 45, which I can also use on 9mm. I don't plan on ever getting a suppressor for my 50 BMG, as the can would cost more than the rifle did. Aside from that, part of the reason to own a 50bmg is to be obscenely loud and obnoxious.

I am disappointed that even with the Osprey 45's eccentric design, it it is still too tall to use the factory night sights on my M&P 45, or the TFO night sights I was planning on getting. I'm going to have to do some research. If I'm going to have to buy tall sights no matter what, I will probably look to see what other options I have, with the advantage of being user serviceable.

I know in the case of the SWR Octane 9mm, it outperforms the 9mm Osprey, costs slightly less, and is able to be disassembled for cleaning. Unfortunately, there isn't an Octane 45 yet, that I know of. The same company now owns both SilencerCo and SWR, so who knows. They need to hurry up and release their 5.56 Saker, and come out with a 30 cal can.

A dedicated 5.56 can is practically useless if you also own a 308, whereas a 30 cal can will work on both.

I'm rambling again...