PDA

View Full Version : few legal questions



dpblue81
09-02-2012, 10:49 PM
ive read through the rules before but i want to get others opinions on several things and i will read the rules again to try to fully understand them.

1. i can build my own suppressor once i get my stamp correct?
2. can i build one for my brother and a buddy if they get their tax stamps?
3. if i build my own, can i rebuild it a few times because i have no experience with this and will be doing r&d to figure it out. i know it has to be serialized, but can i turn one into the police to have it destroyed if i find i need to make changes to the original?

i just bought a lathe for my garage, this is one of the projects i have in mmind for it, sucks i should have gotten the ball rolling on the tax stamp first but now i can get some practice in on turning some stock so i will be better by the time i get my stamp.

TAC
09-02-2012, 11:00 PM
Just practice by making some lawn mower mufflers! :whistle:

dpblue81
09-03-2012, 09:02 AM
omg that is an awesome idea, i am actually building a few mud buddies right now for duck hunting and they need mufflers anyways. you sir are a genius

rjrivero
09-03-2012, 01:49 PM
ive read through the rules before but i want to get others opinions on several things and i will read the rules again to try to fully understand them.

1. i can build my own suppressor once i get my stamp correct?
2. can i build one for my brother and a buddy if they get their tax stamps?
3. if i build my own, can i rebuild it a few times because i have no experience with this and will be doing r&d to figure it out. i know it has to be serialized, but can i turn one into the police to have it destroyed if i find i need to make changes to the original?

i just bought a lathe for my garage, this is one of the projects i have in mmind for it, sucks i should have gotten the ball rolling on the tax stamp first but now i can get some practice in on turning some stock so i will be better by the time i get my stamp.
1. Yes. You can. You need to submit a Form 1 (ATF 5320.1) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Fforms%2Fdownload%2F atf-f-5320-1.pdf&ei=PhRFUPmgO8Xw0gGLj4HwCw&usg=AFQjCNEgiE8WZe4oUkNUUc4fOQyuCScyYw) instead of a Form 4 (5320.4). The form is a little different, but the process is pretty much the same.
2. Yes. But they have to be present and have control of all the pieces for you to do the work. If the suppressor isn't finished, they should take the pieces with them and bring them back to you when you continue the work.
3. Nope. You can only make ONE suppressor per form 1. If you screw it up, you're out your $200 tax. You can submit as many form 1's as you want, but each form 1 is good for only one suppressor.

(Note: This advice is provided that you are not a licensed Manufacturer of NFA Firearms. If you decide to get your Type 7 FFL, you pay your ITAR Tax and can make as many Suppressors as you want on an ATF Form 2. But if you were a Type 7 FFL, then you wouldn't be asking this question.)

dpblue81
09-05-2012, 07:19 AM
ya no plans on becoming an ffl lol. thanks for the help, thats pretty much what i was figuring. now the outer body is serialized correct? so if i make one and decide to make baffle changes that would be legal im thinking, just not modifying the outer body?

Hamsterstyle
09-05-2012, 07:32 AM
ya no plans on becoming an ffl lol. thanks for the help, thats pretty much what i was figuring. now the outer body is serialized correct? so if i make one and decide to make baffle changes that would be legal im thinking, just not modifying the outer body?

That's how I understand it. When you buy some suppressors, you can upgrade down the road from aluminum baffles to stainless baffles so I'd imagine you can do the same thing with yours.

dpblue81
09-05-2012, 07:39 AM
ok cool, thats mainly what i was getting at. im just being real careful dont want to break any rules and trying to understand it fully before i even begin my stamp procedure.

rjrivero
09-05-2012, 07:52 AM
ya no plans on becoming an ffl lol. thanks for the help, thats pretty much what i was figuring. now the outer body is serialized correct? so if i make one and decide to make baffle changes that would be legal im thinking, just not modifying the outer body?
That's how I understand it. When you buy some suppressors, you can upgrade down the road from aluminum baffles to stainless baffles so I'd imagine you can do the same thing with yours.

NO. This is NOT LEGAL. The ATF maintains that any leftover part, or extra part of a suppressor is itself a suppressor. For each "extra baffle" you can be charged with posession of an unregistered suppressor.

(24) The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any
device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a
portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or
redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a
firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for
use in such assembly or fabrication.


You guys are mixing up what is legal for a Type 7 FFL can do as legal repairs to a suppressor and what a private entity can do on a form 1. This is a common mis-conception, but is VERY IMPORTANT to understand before you get yourself in trouble.

Start here for the ATF FAQ's (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-silencers.html). It's got some good information, and the resources to find the actual laws.

backhandman
09-05-2012, 08:09 AM
NO. This is NOT LEGAL. The ATF maintains that any leftover part, or extra part of a suppressor is itself a suppressor. For each "extra baffle" you can be charged with posession of an unregistered suppressor.

You guys are mixing up what is legal for a Type 7 FFL can do as legal repairs to a suppressor and what a private entity can do on a form 1. This is a common mis-conception, but is VERY IMPORTANT to understand before you get yourself in trouble.

Then wouldnt ever oil can before and after use be need to be reregistered on the "Econo-can"? if all were talking about is replacing parts that doesnt have a serial number on it. Then why arnt you required to perminantly attach a oil filter to the registerd thread adapter?

rjrivero
09-05-2012, 08:22 AM
Then wouldnt ever oil can before and after use be need to be reregistered on the "Econo-can"? if all were talking about is replacing parts that doesnt have a serial number on it. Then why arnt you required to perminantly attach a oil filter to the registerd thread adapter?
You are allowed to replace "consumables." For instance wipes. I don't know the regulations regarding the Econo-Can, or the specific rulings Cadiz has gotten from the ATF. That is a good question to ask Cadiz Gunworks directly.

My guess is that they have determined the "oil can" part to be "Consumeable" and replaceable. But as I said, I don't have first hand knowledge on that particular issue.

Remember, this is the same group of clowns that once declared shoe-laces as machine guns!

Hamsterstyle
09-05-2012, 11:05 AM
My mistake. I just read up on that and to replace the baffles you have to send it in to the manufacturer and they can replace/upgrade them for you. You just cannot have any spare parts laying around.

rjrivero
09-05-2012, 11:25 AM
My mistake. I just read up on that and to replace the baffles you have to send it in to the manufacturer and they can replace/upgrade them for you. You just cannot have any spare parts laying around.
No worries. We all start at the same place :thup:

Revdrshad
09-05-2012, 06:23 PM
I've done a lot of reading on silencertalk.com.
I wanted to build my own on a form one, because I figured it'd be pretty nice to make my own serial#/model name.
BUT, After reading up on it, and seeing some of the other ones people have done, and how in-depth they get with metals, and sizes and math formulas,
I think I'll just waste the $200 tax stamp on a name brand one. For now...

Of course your mileage may vary... Keep us posted, and good luck!!

(I currently have an idea for a homemade one made out of Flash suppressors/recoil reducers)