How to make your own can?

[shifty_85]

How would a friend who has all the tools to make a can make it legit? he knows there is a way to build your own but is not sure what he needs to do.

can anyone help with this?

Thanks!

[jmanz6]

Fill out the form, send in the $200, wait for the stamp to come back, then make away. DON'T, make parts, prototypes, or anything that could be construed as parts for a suppressor BEFORE you get your stamp. Make the suppressor exactly as described on the form, DON'T make spare parts.

Go here for more info.

Silencer Talk Forum (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=48df57e226bc8bb67e90a04e959dcfd1)

[pgaplayerless]

If you are making simple design silencers....K-Baffle, etc...it's not worth it to make one IMO. They can be purchased from manufacturers for really cheap.

[solarguy]

Could you name a price for a "cheap" suppressor? Maybe we have different definitions of "cheap".

Thanks in advance,

troy

[Shyster]

Another consideration is what you are going to put the can ON. It's fairly easy to make a can for a bolt action or .22lr but if you expect it to work on a center fire semiauto it can be problematic at best.

[Quaamik]

Fill out the form, send in the $200, wait for the stamp to come back, then make away. DON'T, make parts, prototypes, or anything that could be construed as parts for a suppressor BEFORE you get your stamp. Make the suppressor exactly as described on the form, DON'T make spare parts.

Go here for more info.

Silencer Talk Forum (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=48df57e226bc8bb67e90a04e959dcfd1)

I hate to broadcast my ignorance but how much description is necessary on the form?

Caliber?
OAL length?
Internal design?

I was under the impression that the supressor was serialised. Since the BATFE has determined that if it lowers the sound its a suppressor, even if its just the outer tube that threads on, does it matter whats inside it to them?

I know that years ago there were issues with attempts at prosection for someone who had a legal suppressor and spare parts, but I understood that the BATFE was alleging that they had enough parts (or were attempting to put together enough parts) to create another suppressor. Is there some information I'm missing?

[rjrivero]

The form you need is ATF 5320.1 (http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf). It only asks for caliber and length. You can make it shorter than that length but not longer. You must make it the caliber described. Same 6 month wait for them to come back.

[shifty_85]

it will be going on a 9MM hi point carbine Model 995

[solarguy]

If you want to build one, you can only build one, period. No spare parts, no replacement parts, no prototypes etc.

If you have one additional baffle, an "extra", that could be construed as a second suppressor, one that you don't have paperwork for, one you could go to jail for.

Sort of like, if a shoestring can make a semiautomatic into a fully automatic, the shoestring (in that context) IS the machine gun. It gets arcane...


Finest regards,

troy

[shifty_85]

Thanks for the info.

yes i know it would be one can and one can only that would be the plan.

but all he would have to do is fill out the form and send in how he is going to build it. Wait for the tax stamp to come back then he can make his own?

[solarguy]

I am not a lawyer. If you have doubts, get real advice.

You don't need to send in plans or drawings for a suppressor, just the total length. Shorter is OK, but longer than specified, NOT ok.

We wouldn't want you to have a longer can than you said you were going to make....:whistle:

Wonder why that is exactly???????

finest regards,

troy

[pgaplayerless]

Could you name a price for a "cheap" suppressor? Maybe we have different definitions of "cheap".

Thanks in advance,

troy

$200-$300

[solarguy]

Call me stingy, but 2-300 isn't what I call cheap. Also, some of the cheaper models (and some expensive ones too...) cannot be disassembled, leading to problems keeping it clean and functional, shortening the effective life span.

I'm gonna make my own...

Finest regards,

troy

[pgaplayerless]

Call me stingy, but 2-300 isn't what I call cheap. Also, some of the cheaper models (and some expensive ones too...) cannot be disassembled, leading to problems keeping it clean and functional, shortening the effective life span.

I'm gonna make my own...

Finest regards,

troy

It is cheap considering just the materials, your time, and finish will cost you that much even if you got the tools unless the tools you have is a CNC.

99.999% of the low end suppressors are full disassemble-able. It costs lot more money to make a sealed can.

[rjrivero]

I am not a lawyer. If you have doubts, get real advice.

You don't need to send in plans or drawings for a suppressor, just the total length. Shorter is OK, but longer than specified, NOT ok.

We wouldn't want you to have a longer can than you said you were going to make....:whistle:

Wonder why that is exactly???????

finest regards,

troy
Longer suppressors have more volume and are quieter. Shorter are going to be louder. So you can make a suppressor that's less effective than listed, but not more effective than listed.

[rjrivero]

it will be going on a 9MM hi point carbine Model 995
9mm on a Carbine = K Baffles. Fantastic baffle for 9mm Suppression. Take a look at the silencersmith forums at silencertalk.com

I'm planning on building a couple cans. I have a couple form 1's and a lead on a lathe. I'll be making candle sticks until I hone my skills.

[solarguy]

"Longer suppressors have more volume and are quieter. Shorter are going to be louder. So you can make a suppressor that's less effective than listed, but not more effective than listed."

All true of course. Unless you count diameter. But why would they care though? Maybe we should all list the total length as 20". Then everybody is covered.




I have been doing machine shop work as a hobby for a long time. I have all the equipment, up to , but not including cnc. So, I wouldn't really count the time as an expense.

But if I did, I doubt very much I will have fifty bucks in materials, and that leaves me 150-200 bucks for labor. It is unlikely to take me 20 hours to make it. That works out, worst case scenario, as getting paid 7 bucks an hour to pursue my hobby, and learning something about the fluid dynamics of hot expanding gasses. It could be as high as 20 bucks an hour...

Maybe I'm just being wildly unrealistic, but I guess we'll find out.

I'm also not convinced that welding a seam is expensive to make a sealed can.

I certainly respect the decision of others who wish to buy a ready made commercial product. My decision to build one is not right for everyone.

Finest regards,

troy

[rjrivero]

"Longer suppressors have more volume and are quieter. Shorter are going to be louder. So you can make a suppressor that's less effective than listed, but not more effective than listed."

All true of course. Unless you count diameter. But why would they care though? Maybe we should all list the total length as 20". Then everybody is covered.




I have been doing machine shop work as a hobby for a long time. I have all the equipment, up to , but not including cnc. So, I wouldn't really count the time as an expense.

But if I did, I doubt very much I will have fifty bucks in materials, and that leaves me 150-200 bucks for labor. It is unlikely to take me 20 hours to make it. That works out, worst case scenario, as getting paid 7 bucks an hour to pursue my hobby, and learning something about the fluid dynamics of hot expanding gasses. It could be as high as 20 bucks an hour...

Maybe I'm just being wildly unrealistic, but I guess we'll find out.

I'm also not convinced that welding a seam is expensive to make a sealed can.

I certainly respect the decision of others who wish to buy a ready made commercial product. My decision to build one is not right for everyone.

Finest regards,

troy
Didn't say it makes sense, Troy. Just saying this is their "logic."

Sounds like you have all the tools and skills you need to make your suppressor. You will only need to be able to engrave the "serialized part" with the appropriate information: Name of manufacturer, City, State, model, Caliber, and Serial number. Needs to be letters 1/16" high and .003" deep.

[pgaplayerless]

I have been doing machine shop work as a hobby for a long time. I have all the equipment, up to , but not including cnc. So, I wouldn't really count the time as an expense.

But if I did, I doubt very much I will have fifty bucks in materials, and that leaves me 150-200 bucks for labor. It is unlikely to take me 20 hours to make it. That works out, worst case scenario, as getting paid 7 bucks an hour to pursue my hobby, and learning something about the fluid dynamics of hot expanding gasses. It could be as high as 20 bucks an hour...

Maybe I'm just being wildly unrealistic, but I guess we'll find out.

You are forgetting costs of finish on top of all that.....anodizing, parkerizing. And in the end you will just have a generic suppressor that is nowhere near as quite as one that has been tuned in by a real manufacturer.




I'm also not convinced that welding a seam is expensive to make a sealed can.

Sealed design suppressors aren't two end caps welded to a tube........

[Revdrshad]

I had plans to build my own also. But, the last few months I've decided the price of a tax stamp for a "homemade" silencer isn't worth it to me. I plan on sticking with commercial-bought stuff for now...
I will continue to research the process and may be able to make my own one day. (I think it would be a fitting tribute to model name one after a deceased relative) It just currently seems way, way more trouble than it's worth...

More power to you for trying to make your own though. Please keep us posted along the process.

[solarguy]

"You are forgetting costs of finish on top of all that.....anodizing, parkerizing"

Really, I'm not.

I can do Park at home, I can do type 1 anodizing at home, I can do rust bluing at home, I can do Hot/caustic bluing at home.

I can even run a spray can if I have to.

But again, if you want to go the commercial route, I'm ok with that. But you seem determined to convince me not to do it my way. I can assure you, you will fail at that endeavor. No harm in trying I guess...

You haven't even seen my baffle design, how would you have any idea how efficient the suppressor will be?

Finest regards,

troy

[pgaplayerless]

"You are forgetting costs of finish on top of all that.....anodizing, parkerizing"

Really, I'm not.

I can do Park at home, I can do type 1 anodizing at home, I can do rust bluing at home, I can do Hot/caustic bluing at home.

I can even run a spray can if I have to.

But again, if you want to go the commercial route, I'm ok with that. But you seem determined to convince me not to do it my way. I can assure you, you will fail at that endeavor. No harm in trying I guess...


No. YOU claim $200-$300 is too much for OEM suppressor with proven performance while you can make one for much cheaper, when in fact you can't once you consider all the real costs that go into it.


You haven't even seen my baffle design, how would you have any idea how efficient the suppressor will be?

Finest regards,

troy

You have nothing to prove otherwise. You are taking a gamble.

[RayMich]

Designing an efficient suppressor isn't something done in a couple of hours on a lathe for a one of a kind deal.

Making a sound suppressor is more of an art than a science. Since it is very unlikely that your first and only design would be as efficient as it should, you will very likely end up building more than one prototype to test your design. But you are not a licensed NFA firearms manufacturer, so you will have to fill out a new Form 1, pay for the $200 Tax stamp and wait the 6-months every time you decide to build a new prototype to test, BEFORE you can legally build it. It will ultimately end up being a very costly and time consuming endeavor. Remember, once you build one, it has to be serialized and you cannot have spare parts without obtaining approval for a new suppressor.

In MY opinion the hassle and expense of dealing with the ATF every time you need to build a new prototype to test would be enough to discourage anyone but the most determined individual.

I do wish you the best in your quest.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

[rjrivero]

I don't get it. What's the deal with all the negativity about creating your own suppressor for your own use?

These things are not ROCKET SURGERY. They're suppressors. Basic baffle design can be tinkered with ad nauseum, but if you know what round your building your suppressor around, you'll be able to use a tried and true design that has a proven track record.

9mm=K Baffles.

SWR uses Omega baffles in their suppressors, but the AAC Ti-Rant series is pretty much strait up K Baffles with a little extra flair.

Standard K Baffles are plenty effective for 9mm, .45 ACP and .22LR. They're easy to make and just stack up in a tube.

Finish? What's wrong with KRYLON Barbque paint? Who cares if it flakes off or gets scratched. You just spray more on it!

Go get em, Troy. Please post up pictures as you finish your project!
Shifty, good luck to you on your project.

FWIW, you don't even have to DO the work YOURSELF. If you have a friend who can run the machines for you, they can do it for you, provided you are there for the ENTIRE process and any parts in progress you take with you. This is the fun stuff when it comes to Silencers......

Borrowed from photobucket: The evolution of swiss cheese.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/paintballplayer700/monostack1.jpg

[jm0502]

I don't get it. What's the deal with all the negativity about creating your own suppressor for your own use?

These things are not ROCKET SURGERY. They're suppressors. Basic baffle design can be tinkered with ad nauseum, but if you know what round your building your suppressor around, you'll be able to use a tried and true design that has a proven track record.

9mm=K Baffles.

SWR uses Omega baffles in their suppressors, but the AAC Ti-Rant series is pretty much strait up K Baffles with a little extra flair.

Standard K Baffles are plenty effective for 9mm, .45 ACP and .22LR. They're easy to make and just stack up in a tube.

Finish? What's wrong with KRYLON Barbque paint? Who cares if it flakes off or gets scratched. You just spray more on it!

Go get em, Troy. Please post up pictures as you finish your project!
Shifty, good luck to you on your project.

FWIW, you don't even have to DO the work YOURSELF. If you have a friend who can run the machines for you, they can do it for you, provided you are there for the ENTIRE process and any parts in progress you take with you. This is the fun stuff when it comes to Silencers......

Borrowed from photobucket: The evolution of swiss cheese.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/paintballplayer700/monostack1.jpg
People are also forgetting the satisfaction of building your own, I can buy a lower AR 15 receiver for $75 or I can pay $75 for a 80% and finish it my self, or machine it from solid. which would cost even more, but its something I made.

[jm0502]

Also there is a book about Sten's and how they silenced them. i guess it was a efficient design.

[solarguy]

"You are taking a gamble."

Well, yes I am. I am a big boy and I relish the opportunity. I am not implying that you are not a big boy, at all.

No, it's not rocket surgery.

There are lots of proven designs out there that are really not that complicated.

Why is this so hard for you people. I appreciate all the good intentions being lavished on me to show me the error of my ways, but I'm still going to do it.

Feel free to not try it if you don't want to.

I am often unconventional. Having explored steam engines, electric sailplanes, and sterling engines, residential scale combined heat and power units, rc helicopters, , built a few telescopes, built a foundry from scratch, and cooked my own biodiesel to run my car and heat my house, and designed my shop to use 10% of the energy of the average shop, and bulding hand wound wild AC low speed alternators for wind turbines, and having been at least nominally successful at all of those things, I think I can manage one little suppressor.

Got my form 1 all ready to mail in after getting my trust taken care of by our own fine lawyer Melissa Pierce. I hear the trust applications come back faster than the personal applications, but I'll keep you posted.

Yes, I understand that you can't make 7 prototypes on one form one. Good thing a jillion other people have done it before me. Good thing I know how to read and understand simple picutures. I also know what Reynold's numbers mean, and understand what adiabatic expansion is.

But even if I didn't, a determined 12 year old could build the deformed freeze plug suppressor and would still get decent results.

Really, it's not rocket science.


Finest regards,

troy

[Revdrshad]

But even if I didn't, a determined 12 year old could build the deformed freeze plug suppressor and would still get decent results.



I looked at some of the designs that other people had made on silencertalk.com. I was very impressed. I personally realized I didn't have the time, patience, knowledge, or skills to make what I wanted.
You are absolutely correct, someone with the knowledge, skills, tools, etc. Could build a really good suppressor for less than $50.
And I am very interested in what you can put together. Sounds like you've researched it, so let the naysayers nay-say. And please post some photos and cost list as you venture out... :popcorn:

[solarguy]

Will happily update the group when I get my permission tax stamp from the fed and construction begins.

Sadly, it will probably be 6-10 months before that happens, but that gives me lots of time to plan.

troy

[shifty_85]

wow lots to read in here.

thanks all!

yeah i know the bigger the can the quiter it should be.

will my 9MM carbine still cycle with a can? it is gas blow back not direct impingment/piston. will a can hurt that?

[HoldHard]

wow lots to read in here.

thanks all!

yeah i know the bigger the can the quiter it should be.

will my 9MM carbine still cycle with a can? it is gas blow back not direct impingment/piston. will a can hurt that?rjrivero had an integrated suppressor constructed for his 9mm carbine. It runs.

HH

[pgaplayerless]

wow lots to read in here.

thanks all!

yeah i know the bigger the can the quiter it should be.

will my 9MM carbine still cycle with a can? it is gas blow back not direct impingment/piston. will a can hurt that?

Cans only affect firearms on which the barrel is moving as part of the action cycle.

[shifty_85]

Cans only affect firearms on which the barrel is moving as part of the action cycle.


good to know!

[fw0270]

Cans only affect firearms on which the barrel is moving as part of the action cycle.

I am not sure what you mean, could you help me understand.

[ZYA_LTR]

I am not sure what you mean, could you help me understand.

Silencers have no effect on solid barrel firearms, as there are stationary, but if you take your average semi-auto pistol, and slowly rack the slide back, you can see that the barrel "unlocks" and moves with the recoil of the gun. It is designed to do this after the round is fired. The use of a silencer essentially will absorb alot of this recoil impulse and not allow the pistol to function properly in a semi-auto fashion. It would single fire requiring you to rack the slide for each shot. So pistol silencers use a "recoil booster" or Nielsen Device to essentially restore some of the recoil impulse from the gases back to the barrel, allowing proper barrel cycling and succesful semi-auto functioning.

[usmcpaul]

Troy, I agree that you will probably not be able to build one cheaper, (maybe you can) but I still say "GO FOR IT!"

Not everyone likes to design and make things, so for them it is too much hassle and I respect that. But for guys like you and I, the chase is the exciting part. The toiling and research over a good design, the set up and execution of a machining operation, the pride of a nice smooth finish, is beyond many peoples idea of fun. (ask my wife). Of course I do not care if the Lions win next week, or if Micheal Cabrera hits another touchdown.:hick:

I am a hobby machinist and welder with tens of thousands of dollars of machines and tools that are for hobby purposes only, and I find it so enjoyable, that I think it is worth the extra cost to say that I did it, not to mention the great pride I take in learning and honing my skills.

7 years ago I spent ~3,000 on a tig welder and another $300 on classes to learn how to use it, and it was the best money I ever spent.(but not according to SWMBO). I went to class every week, I showed up on days that my class was not scheduled, and the instructor said "Damn Paul, I wish 1/4 of my students showed this much interest"

I mean really....why the hell would someone build a steam engine?

Do you need one? ....No.

Will it save you any money? Definitely not..

Will your kids just throw it in the trash when you are dead? Probably..

Well if I have to try to explain it, it will probably fall on deaf ears.

And for those reading this, my success rate for projects and inventions is probably about 35%., but I just like doing it.

So I say again, GO FOR IT! And post pics of your attempt.

Good Luck.

[usmcpaul]

As an aside, just 2 weeks ago I made my first threaded rod. I could have bought it for $3.89 at Home Depot, but I spent 7 hours doing it, after many failed attempts.

When I finished, I ran upstairs so excited, you would have thought that I just invented Cold Fusion.

My old lady, looked at it and said in a very loving tone "Nice job Honey, that looks nice...will you take out the trash please?":spank:

[solarguy]

Thank you sir. Yes, you get it.

No, I don't win every time, not monetarily. But I often win monetarily, so it keeps me playing the game. Plus, I LIKE the game.

One of the guys on the homeshopmachinest site has, as his tag line (paraphrasing...), why buy it for a 100 when you can build it for 50, after you buy $15,000 worth of equipment.

Yeah, I got all the equipment,so...better use it.

Plus, I have this crazy idea for making crazy cheap suppressors for .22's. This would involve making essentially finished k-baffles in a home built die casting machine. I gotta have some kind of plan to stay busy when I retire in a decade or so. Maybe Zamak, maybe aluminum bronze. Too many projects, not enough time.

Application in the mail.

Is it there yet?

Is it there yet?

Is it there yet?

Is it there yet?




Finest regards,

troy

[shifty_85]

yeah he has a bright port mill and a sebian laith. big HUGE one's too....it sucked moving them when he moved!! he love making stuff him self. he made the muzzle brake for my AR-10 came out pretty sweet. has ports on the left and right side's and on the top.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/Mobile%20Uploads/0715122330.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/Mobile%20Uploads/0715122254.jpg

[Revdrshad]

Troy, I agree that you will probably not be able to build one cheaper, (maybe you can) but I still say "GO FOR IT!"

Not everyone likes to design and make things, so for them it is too much hassle and I respect that. But for guys like you and I, the chase is the exciting part. The toiling and research over a good design, the set up and execution of a machining operation, the pride of a nice smooth finish, is beyond many peoples idea of fun. (ask my wife). Of course I do not care if the Lions win next week, or if Micheal Cabrera hits another touchdown.:hick:

I am a hobby machinist and welder with tens of thousands of dollars of machines and tools that are for hobby purposes only, and I find it so enjoyable, that I think it is worth the extra cost to say that I did it, not to mention the great pride I take in learning and honing my skills.

7 years ago I spent ~3,000 on a tig welder and another $300 on classes to learn how to use it, and it was the best money I ever spent.(but not according to SWMBO). I went to class every week, I showed up on days that my class was not scheduled, and the instructor said "Damn Paul, I wish 1/4 of my students showed this much interest"

I mean really....why the hell would someone build a steam engine?

Do you need one? ....No.

Will it save you any money? Definitely not..

Will your kids just throw it in the trash when you are dead? Probably..

Well if I have to try to explain it, it will probably fall on deaf ears.

And for those reading this, my success rate for projects and inventions is probably about 35%., but I just like doing it.

So I say again, GO FOR IT! And post pics of your attempt.

Good Luck.


This ^^^^ Is what has made America great!!
Keep rocking on, Sir! :ar15:

[solarguy]

By the way, I have already purchased all the materials that I didn't have rolling around in the scrap box. The total price will be, in fact, well under fifty bucks unless I count my time.

And really, even if I count my time, they don't take that long to make, do they???

Finest regards,

troy

[Revdrshad]

I'm most interested in how you'll make threaded endcaps. If that's your plan...?
Or do you plan on welding the unit closed?

[usmcpaul]

I'm most interested in how you'll make threaded endcaps. If that's your plan...?
Or do you plan on welding the unit closed?


Probably something like this for the external threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-bTfflIPlc

and then for the internal threads,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olC9xyHheDU

Tubalcain has a ton of great videos on machining.

[solarguy]

Yes, both endcaps and the tube will be "single point" threaded, very similar to the youtube videos.

This method is far more accurate (compared to taps and dies) at getting the threads concentric with the centerline of the suppressor. Assuming of course the operator has some idea what he or she is doing.

You end up with a can that's far more serviceable than a welded can. .22's, as much as I love them, are dirty. Gotta have a plan to clean it periodically.

Finest regards,

troy