Legal full auto AR15?

[shooter351]

Theoretically this is a legal way to convert your AR15 to function full auto for a reasonable price.

How long before the ATF changes the rules to cover it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l0BgLk1i9yY

[scottzcamaro]

Your cheapest option.

http://www.slidefire.com/

( controlled bumpfire :grin: )

[shooter351]

That's what this is.

After watching the video from the first link where both versions are shown, it appears that accuracy suffers from the full auto to the bump fire version.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

I do not have much faith in a bumpfire stock just for that reason of accuracy you just mentioned

[Smokepole]

Either of you have one?

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

not me

[Smokepole]

Here's a potential alternative, that is far less expensive.
...No, I haven't tried it yet.

PVfwFP_RwTQ

And, for you pistol lovers.
...Obviously, a future engineer.
Note the disclaimers!

qsPN7Iprfp0

[TangoDown3727]

No thanks.

[GreaseMonkeySRT]

That rubber band trick isn't a half bad idea.

[shooter351]

Either of you have one?

Nope. I wouldn't even try one for one simple reason: if someone hears anything coming from a range that sounds anything like full auto, they will most likely call the police and/or ATF.

One of my boys took his M1 Carbine out one day and put a few 30 round magazines through it as fast as he could pull the trigger. Before he finished he had a visit from the township police following up on a complaint that someone was firing a fully automatic weapon.

The officers of this particular township are not noted for their friendly demeanors.

As a matter of fact, I used to use a DNR range that was totally unsupervised. One of the signs posted there asked citizens to call the DNR and report any automatic gunfire they heard coming from the range.

I'm too old to put with that kind of hassle but I do think this is an interesting subject.

[pgaplayerless]

Nope. I wouldn't even try one for one simple reason: if someone hears anything coming from a range that sounds anything like full auto, they will most likely call the police and/or ATF.

One of my boys took his M1 Carbine out one day and put a few 30 round magazines through it as fast as he could pull the trigger. Before he finished he had a visit from the township police following up on a complaint that someone was firing a fully automatic weapon.

The officers of this particular township are not noted for their friendly demeanors.

As a matter of fact, I used to use a DNR range that was totally unsupervised. One of the signs posted there asked citizens to call the DNR and report any automatic gunfire they heard coming from the range.

I'm too old to put with that kind of hassle but I do think this is an interesting subject.

I have a machine gun and my 1200 round per minute have yet to attract any attention from the authorities...

[shooter351]

I have a machine gun and my 1200 round per minute have yet to attract any attention from the authorities...

You probably don't live in Leoni Township.

[jm0502]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/571714_Homemade_Bump_fire_stock.html

[RayMich]

Rubber band machinegun.

The bump fire stock relies only on the shooter's arm and finger movements to fire the gun rapidly. According to the ATF this is legal. No different than being able to move your trigger finger very fast.

However, the rubber band trick actually introduces a mechanical device to assist in firing multiple rounds and thus modifies the trigger mechanism.


ATF Letter MAR 09 2011
"Regarding the installation of your proposed electronic device as well as various aftermarket parts; modifying firecontrol components; installing Tac, Hellfire, or Hellstorm triggers; or attaching rubber bands to triggers to facilitate easier "bump-fire" operations, we caution that any modifications which permit a weapon to fire automatically more than one shot with a single function of the trigger could result in that weapon being defined as a "machinegun" as noted in § 5845(b). Possession of an unregistered machinegun is a violation of federal law."

Yes, this letter is Clear as mud. :o

I am still searching for a link to the ATF letter but have not yet found it.

Keep in mind that the ATF has been known to declare that something is legal, only to later declare it to be illegal.

The manufacturer of the bump-fire stock has obtained a ruling by the ATF declaring their stock IS legal because it relies ONLY on muscle control with no assist mechanism. A spring or rubber band ARE assist mechanisms.

I would recommend for anyone who is contemplating modifying a semi-automatic rifle or pistol by modifying the trigger mechanism using a rubber band, or a spring, or a similar device to write to the ATF and get a specific ruling on the matter before making such modifications. You do not want the distinction of receiving a free room and board scholarship for the next five years courtesy of Uncle Sam.

[jm0502]

Rubber band machinegun.

The bump fire stock relies only on the shooter's arm and finger movements to fire the gun rapidly. According to the ATF this is legal. No different than being able to move your trigger finger very fast.

However, the rubber band trick actually introduces a mechanical device to assist in firing multiple rounds and thus modifies the trigger mechanism.


Yes, this letter is Clear as mud. :o

I am still searching for a link to the ATF letter but have not yet found it.

Keep in mind that the ATF has been known to declare that something is legal, only to later declare it to be illegal.

The manufacturer of the bump-fire stock has obtained a ruling by the ATF declaring their stock IS legal because it relies ONLY on muscle control with no assist mechanism. A spring or rubber band ARE assist mechanisms.

I would recommend for anyone who is contemplating modifying a semi-automatic rifle or pistol by modifying the trigger mechanism using a rubber band, or a spring, or a similar device to write to the ATF and get a specific ruling on the matter before making such modifications. You do not want the distinction of receiving a free room and board scholarship for the next five years courtesy of Uncle Sam.
But the fact that the rubber band is pullingtrigger forward doesnt change it a whole lot, It isnt much different that putting a heavier spring on the trigger, which may be a better option. But its hard to reason with a group that has registered a string as a full auto device, and a sponge as a silencer.

[Revdrshad]

Nope. I wouldn't even try one for one simple reason: if someone hears anything coming from a range that sounds anything like full auto, they will most likely call the police and/or ATF.

One of my boys took his M1 Carbine out one day and put a few 30 round magazines through it as fast as he could pull the trigger. Before he finished he had a visit from the township police following up on a complaint that someone was firing a fully automatic weapon.

The officers of this particular township are not noted for their friendly demeanors.

As a matter of fact, I used to use a DNR range that was totally unsupervised. One of the signs posted there asked citizens to call the DNR and report any automatic gunfire they heard coming from the range.

I'm too old to put with that kind of hassle but I do think this is an interesting subject.


More like JEALOUSY on the part of the police officers...

"Uh, hey, uh can we shoot that? Please, Please, Please???"

[IndustrialRescue]

Well look at that, another slidefire video. OP must have been living under a rock for the last 2 years.

How original:sleeping:

[IndustrialRescue]

Either of you have one?

I do. Currently set up with my CMMG dedicated 22lr upper. Runs 100% even on that heavy rifle.

Just use a 1.5 pound Jard trigger.


I burned out too many barrels running it on my various 5.56 uppers.

[IndustrialRescue]

They've sown up once or twice. Awfully convenient that every slidefire stock SHIPS WITH THE ATF APPROVAL LETTER...

The cop looks, and then leaves. Now they don't even show up. Instead, the neighbors get pissy, and steal my campaign signs, LOL!


Nope. I wouldn't even try one for one simple reason: if someone hears anything coming from a range that sounds anything like full auto, they will most likely call the police and/or ATF.

One of my boys took his M1 Carbine out one day and put a few 30 round magazines through it as fast as he could pull the trigger. Before he finished he had a visit from the township police following up on a complaint that someone was firing a fully automatic weapon.

The officers of this particular township are not noted for their friendly demeanors.

As a matter of fact, I used to use a DNR range that was totally unsupervised. One of the signs posted there asked citizens to call the DNR and report any automatic gunfire they heard coming from the range.

I'm too old to put with that kind of hassle but I do think this is an interesting subject.

[scottzcamaro]

They've sown up once or twice. Awfully convenient that every slidefire stock SHIPS WITH THE ATF APPROVAL LETTER...

The cop looks, and then leaves. Now they don't even show up. Instead, the neighbors get pissy, and steal my campaign signs, LOL!

:deal2: lol

[IndustrialRescue]

:deal2: lol
Think I might have to piss them off some more this weekend...

[doublekrossd]

Man, that thing brings a smile to my face! I gotta get one! I suppose another gun purchase is in the near future... so cool...

[vlmuke]

Rubber band machinegun.

The bump fire stock relies only on the shooter's arm and finger movements to fire the gun rapidly. According to the ATF this is legal. No different than being able to move your trigger finger very fast.

However, the rubber band trick actually introduces a mechanical device to assist in firing multiple rounds and thus modifies the trigger mechanism.


Yes, this letter is Clear as mud. :o

I am still searching for a link to the ATF letter but have not yet found it.

Keep in mind that the ATF has been known to declare that something is legal, only to later declare it to be illegal.

The manufacturer of the bump-fire stock has obtained a ruling by the ATF declaring their stock IS legal because it relies ONLY on muscle control with no assist mechanism. A spring or rubber band ARE assist mechanisms.

I would recommend for anyone who is contemplating modifying a semi-automatic rifle or pistol by modifying the trigger mechanism using a rubber band, or a spring, or a similar device to write to the ATF and get a specific ruling on the matter before making such modifications. You do not want the distinction of receiving a free room and board scholarship for the next five years courtesy of Uncle Sam.


It reminds me of the trigger crank thing they sold maybe 10-15 yrs ago, I was in the Military at the time so I never thought what the big deal over it was, I mean I liked the 3 shot over the full auto on the M16 because of the whole control issue, but man my civie friends were all over them I guess the ATF said they were legal, it was like you added this crank thing to the trigger and cranked it once and it fired 3 shots then if kept cranking it was like full auto, the ATF later ruled they were illegal.

[drp9]

i know this is about AR-15s, but i saw people put a staple clip in their mini 14 trigger grouping, and it becomes 2 shot burst. they said it was fine, is this really legal?

as far as the bump fire stock, it is only for recreational use in my eyes, would not stake my life on it

[Garymac]

Full auto is fun, particularly someone else's full auto.

Personally, I ain't paying $370+ shipping for something that wastes precious quantities of expensive ammo a lot faster.

[IndustrialRescue]

i know this is about AR-15s, but i saw people put a staple clip in their mini 14 trigger grouping, and it becomes 2 shot burst. they said it was fine, is this really legal?

as far as the bump fire stock, it is only for recreational use in my eyes, would not stake my life on it

Sure, it's fine... If you're an SOT, and too cheap to just convert an AR15 with your NFA manufacturer license.

For you, or your buddies? Enjoy your stay in prison. Aside from the fact that the mini14 is junk.

ANYTHING mechanical to "convert" a firearm=MG, to put it simply. Whether it's a shoelace on a charging handle, a paperclip, or, according to the definition, a malfunctioning double barrel shotgun.

The SFS stock still requires the user to pull the rifle forward for each shot, hence, legal. I suppose if you knew what you were doing, you could make one for a mini 14, if you wanted.

The paperclip trick on the mini 14 allowed one shot to be fired when the trigger is pulled, and one shot fired when the trigger resets.

[coltpython22]

Why is their now toys on a site were we have real guns? And rubber bands come on. Ghetto.

[Pyzik]

Rubber band machinegun.

The bump fire stock relies only on the shooter's arm and finger movements to fire the gun rapidly. According to the ATF this is legal. No different than being able to move your trigger finger very fast.

However, the rubber band trick actually introduces a mechanical device to assist in firing multiple rounds and thus modifies the trigger mechanism.


Yes, this letter is Clear as mud. :o

I am still searching for a link to the ATF letter but have not yet found it.

Keep in mind that the ATF has been known to declare that something is legal, only to later declare it to be illegal.

The manufacturer of the bump-fire stock has obtained a ruling by the ATF declaring their stock IS legal because it relies ONLY on muscle control with no assist mechanism. A spring or rubber band ARE assist mechanisms.

I would recommend for anyone who is contemplating modifying a semi-automatic rifle or pistol by modifying the trigger mechanism using a rubber band, or a spring, or a similar device to write to the ATF and get a specific ruling on the matter before making such modifications. You do not want the distinction of receiving a free room and board scholarship for the next five years courtesy of Uncle Sam.
Beat me to it!

[drp9]

Sure, it's fine... If you're an SOT, and too cheap to just convert an AR15 with your NFA manufacturer license.

For you, or your buddies? Enjoy your stay in prison. Aside from the fact that the mini14 is junk.

ANYTHING mechanical to "convert" a firearm=MG, to put it simply. Whether it's a shoelace on a charging handle, a paperclip, or, according to the definition, a malfunctioning double barrel shotgun.

The SFS stock still requires the user to pull the rifle forward for each shot, hence, legal. I suppose if you knew what you were doing, you could make one for a mini 14, if you wanted.

The paperclip trick on the mini 14 allowed one shot to be fired when the trigger is pulled, and one shot fired when the trigger resets.

mini 14 junk? i lol'd

[kdogg]

Well hey, the nice thing about rubber bands are that you can swallow them and they will come out sooner or later!

Prove I wasn't just bump firing it with my hand! :D

[mini4m3]

mini 14 junk? i lol'd

mini14 is junk

[andrew]

Registered lightening link and a couple of FA parts. Not exactly very cheap, but legal. Prolly cheapest way to do it legally.

[IndustrialRescue]

mini14 is junk

The AC556 is ONLY slightly better, as it has a happy switch. It's still based on the mini14, and is still inaccurate, unreliable junk.

[drp9]

The AC556 is ONLY slightly better, as it has a happy switch. It's still based on the mini14, and is still inaccurate, unreliable junk.

last time i checked, my mini shoots better than my AR's, all i did was make a barrel strut and bed the stock with fiberglass, overall it was about an hour of work and 50 dollars, a monkey could make the barrel strut and you can buy one for 90 dollars if you can't. my mini shoots about 1 MOA from a sandbag, not even a vice, also my dad has had his since the 80s, 10000 rounds down the tube, not one part replaced, not one jam...can't speak for the newer ones, but they aren't junk, garand action > any AR, sorry not even worth comparing...i lol'd at the unreliable part, seriously most of the Mini 14 owners wanted something that wasn't as problematical as an AR, not saying AR's are bad, but require way more maintenance than any mini and can be picky with ammo. stop being a typical mall cop, a weapon does not need 1000 flashlights and rails to be reliable. internet myths are getting tiring :/ :coocoo:

[IndustrialRescue]

last time i checked, my mini shoots better than my AR's, all i did was make a barrel strut and bed the stock with fiberglass, overall it was about an hour of work and 50 dollars, a monkey could make the barrel strut and you can buy one for 90 dollars if you can't. my mini shoots about 1 MOA from a sandbag, not even a vice, also my dad has had his since the 80s, 10000 rounds down the tube, not one part replaced, not one jam...can't speak for the newer ones, but they aren't junk, garand action > any AR, sorry not even worth comparing...i lol'd at the unreliable part, seriously most of the Mini 14 owners wanted something that wasn't as problematical as an AR, not saying AR's are bad, but require way more maintenance than any mini and can be picky with ammo. stop being a typical mall cop, a weapon does not need 1000 flashlights and rails to be reliable. internet myths are getting tiring :/ :coocoo:


My AR is problematic? News to me....... Runs fine with ANY mags, unlike a MINI, runs 2 MOA out of the box with JUNK ammo, unlike a MINI, and can handle a slidefire stock, again, unlike a mini.

Of course, 8 years in the Army, using an M4, and M16, and never having any issues with those, either, of course I must not know what I'm talking about...

I'd imagine there's also no reason whatsoever that the .mil dumped the Garand, and for the most part, moved away from the M14, and moved to the SR25... Or, in the few cases they still use an M14, it's so heavily modified that it's nearly unrecognizable. Heck, the M14 didn't even make it over to Vietnam as an infantry rifle.

And the Ruger is a shoddy miniaturized copy.

Minis are, always have been, and always will be junk.
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g370/IndustrialRescue/mini14.jpg

[oldskoolford427]

That rubber band trick isn't a half bad idea.

I watched that video and I could not find a rubberband quick enough to try it.. Best I could do was a double!! never a full run, I give the rubber band idea 2 thumbs down!!:twocents:

[IndustrialRescue]

I watched that video and I could not find a rubberband quick enough to try it.. Best I could do was a double!! never a full run, I give the rubber band idea 2 thumbs down!!:twocents:

Pretty much. The only function the rubber band serves is to make the trigger reset faster.