Fatal misstep with Glock

[Cackler]

http://www.thestate.com/2012/11/30/2538525/columbia-man-killed-in-shooting.html

[Big_Jim]

COLUMBIA, SC — A Columbia man died in a what appears to be a tragic shooting range accident.

Jerry Marsh III, 62, was shot in the chest when his 40-caliber Glock semi-automatic handgun accidentally discharged at a West Columbia gun range Thursday evening, Lexington County Coroner Harry Harman said.

Marsh was dismantling the weapon at Shooter’s Choice around 7 p.m. when it fired. He was taken to Palmetto Health Richland but died from the injury.




Video from around the world




The incident remains under investigation by the West Columbia Police Department.

It has been more than a decade since someone died at the range, the police department said. One shooting was an accident similar to Thursday’s. The only other death was a suicide.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2012/11/30/2538525/columbia-man-killed-in-shooting.html#storylink=cpy




This has nothing to do with Glock and everything to do with an idiot that points his gun at his chest and pulls the trigger!

[pgm74]

This has nothing to do with Glock and everything to do with an idiot that points his gun at his chest and pulls the trigger!

x2

Sounds like he was pulling the trigger to remove the slide. But why he would point it at his chest to perform that action is beyond me. Oh, that's right... It was "unloaded" so it was okay!! :shake:

[blackwater na]

operator error! not coming back from that mistake! but they will blame gun.

[apssbc]

Negligent discharge not accidental. The gun did not go off on its own so its negligent. Rules of firearm saftey....this is why we follow them. Trust me it in my lane ;)

[wowzer69]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.

[jackg]

He removed the mag but forgot about the round in the chamber.

[jackg]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.

Really?? You've never made a mistake? His, unfortunately, cost him his life & likely left behind a family that'll have to grieve their loss.
It seems like compassion & empathy are things you're unfamiliar with.

[maustin195]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.
Pretty harsh comments about someone you don't even know. People make mistakes all the time ,this time it cost someone their life. It was not good for him as you say nor did it serve him right.

[apssbc]

I agree with everyone else. You've made mistakes before I guarantee it. Ever cut someone off, had a car accident, tripped over a step you forgot was there. Stupid stuff happens all the time. Don't get me wrong he shouldn't have pointed it at his chest, nor should I have pointed mine at my leg. We as humans aren't perfect and neither are you.

[thatguy423]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.

We are in the presence of greatness folks! Finally.. The perfect human! Dumbass comment guy..

[customrace45acp]

Although very tragic, we all need to learn from other's mistakes.

[.40 Cal]

Yeah stupid comment for sure.. The guy deserved it? Man that's harsh...

Must be nice to walk on water! Hope your luckier then this guy was when you make a mistake; since you never make any I'm certain using the law of averages that yours will be a monumental one. :rofl: :popcorn:

[mwagner01]

Everyone makes mistakes. No human is perfect.

At the same time, I am extremely OCD about clearing weapons. My shotgun is loaded. My handgun in the safe is loaded. Every other gun in my house is cleared.

What do I do when I pick up a cleared/safe gun? Same as I would to clear a loaded gun. Muzzle in a safe direction. Finger out of the trigger guard. Magazine out. Rack Rack Rack. Visual inspection. I feel for rounds in the mag well, chamber, etc. Then I assume it's cleared. Still wouldn't point it at myself while disassembling.

Has a round ever popped out when I cleared a "safe" gun? Nope. But I would not assume there's not a round in the chamber. Only after I take the steps necessary for me to know the weapon is cleared do I handle it as a safe gun. I do it even if I set a pistol or rifle down fr 5 minutes.

Did the guy deserve to die? Probably not, he was probably a good guy. Did he absolutely fail as a responsible gun owner? Yes. And when you fail to be responsible with guns, bad crap happens.

[1173jared]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.
-1 :thdown:

[RayMich]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.
Really?? You've never made a mistake? His, unfortunately, cost him his life & likely left behind a family that'll have to grieve their loss.
It seems like compassion & empathy are things you're unfamiliar with.
You have to keep in mind that you are responding to someone who is all-knowing and has never made a mistake in his life.

And to whom I would say, "Karma is a Bitch".

[Sniper21]

Sad to hear...its a shame for his family.

Another sad example to remind us to always follow the safety rules. Never point a weapon at anything you don't wish to destroy.

[Jeep olllllo]

How many times has it been said that you do not point an unloaded weapon at anyone, including yourself. Poor SOB. Not the way I want to go out.

[magstang1]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.

I'm not normally one to jump on the bandwagon, but this was extremely poor taste. You may want to reconsider this statement.

Firearms are dangerous. It only takes a fraction of a second to make an error. Unfortunately this person will not be able to learn from his mistake.

I can say for myself that I don't get to shoot as often as I used to. Family and work consume a good portion of my free time. I make it a point to slow down a bit and think about everything I'm doing.

Sometimes you just can't train as much as you would like.

[Jr.BowmanMI]

Sorry for the individuals family and friends. Accidents can happen anyplace, anytime. This is a real reminder.

I interpret this article as an educational tool in firearms safety. Anyone can try and describe what happened and what the individual SHOULD have done, but we should view this situation as a tool for firearm safety.


We grow through what we go though.

[Dabears!]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.
you wonder why people seem to not like you and think your apologies are BS?

its tragic, its sad, and it could have been avoided.

RMPL

[THEJUICE9269]

If this was ALWAYS followed, this type of thing wouldn't happen, period. We all do make mistakes, but having the barrel pointed at anyone is just not acceptable. How many of us carry a knife in our hand with the tip pointed back at our body, especially our chest? Seriously?

[Dabears!]

If this was ALWAYS followed, this type of thing wouldn't happen, period. We all do make mistakes, but having the barrel pointed at anyone is just not acceptable. How many of us carry a knife in our hand with the tip pointed back at our body, especially our chest? Seriously?


you carry a knife in your hand with the handle pointing forwards?

[TangoDown3727]

This has nothing to do with Glock and everything to do with an idiot that points his gun at his chest and pulls the trigger!

^^^THIS x1000^^^ :togo:

[lwout65]

Very sad indeed... i show my kids these story's to drive home the point that you treat firearms as if they are always loaded and while at the range always to keep them pointed down range.

Even during cleaning i make sure they are cleared and if they are helping i make them clear them again before doing anything else.

[TangoDown3727]

Everyone makes mistakes. No human is perfect.

At the same time, I am extremely OCD about clearing weapons. My shotgun is loaded. My handgun in the safe is loaded. Every other gun in my house is cleared.

What do I do when I pick up a cleared/safe gun? Same as I would to clear a loaded gun. Muzzle in a safe direction. Finger out of the trigger guard. Magazine out. Rack Rack Rack. Visual inspection. I feel for rounds in the mag well, chamber, etc. Then I assume it's cleared. Still wouldn't point it at myself while disassembling.

Has a round ever popped out when I cleared a "safe" gun? Nope. But I would not assume there's not a round in the chamber. Only after I take the steps necessary for me to know the weapon is cleared do I handle it as a safe gun. I do it even if I set a pistol or rifle down fr 5 minutes.

Did the guy deserve to die? Probably not, he was probably a good guy. Did he absolutely fail as a responsible gun owner? Yes. And when you fail to be responsible with guns, bad crap happens.

I agree with you and maintain the same level of safety when it comes to firearms, but really?? Do you even question whether this man "deserved" to die?? The answer is NO, he didn't "deserve" to die...he wasn't in the commision of an evil violent act with a firearm, he was practicing shooting at the range! He made a mistake...a very costly mistake indeed, a mistake that cost him his life. Yes he showed irresponsability as a gun owner and he paid the ultimate price, but that in no way, shape or form should be considered what he "deserved". That is a complete logical fail! This simply helps to prove today's society's lack of value placed on human life (as evidenced by that azzhat that posted "Good for the fool...Serves him right...") :togo: . It also proves that firearms safety rules and our responsability to follow them at all times is paramount, because even the slightest misstep, or letting down of our guard/getting too comfortable, no matter how harmless it seems, can indeed result in the loss of innocent life and there is NO price that can be placed on that.
Ok, stepping down...the soapbox is open again, carry on! ;)

[Wolvee]

Nerco thread but:


This has nothing to do with Glock and everything to do with an idiot that points his gun at his chest and pulls the trigger!


...the Glock helped.

[Ryan01228]

Sad to hear...its a shame for his family.

Another sad example to remind us to always follow the safety rules. Never point a weapon at anything you don't wish to destroy.


Couldn't agree more. It needs to remind us all that the gun safety RULES are there for a real reason.

[brady080]

Good for the FOOL, serves him right, the IDIOT. At least he only hurt himself, and not some innocent person.


Wow, your cold hearted

[oldskoolford427]

operator error! not coming back from that mistake! but they will blame gun.

Well the owner of the World Trade Center / Twin Towers is sueing the Airlines of the two airplanes that where flown into the Towers!! So if you believe it was their fault for what happened there!! then you can make the link that it is the Glocks faulty design!!

[amontana086]

That's terrible but I am relieved it was operator error and not the glock. Definitely not as funny as when tex grebner shot himself in the leg on youtube practicing hip draw.

[cableman22b]

Never point at anything you do not want to shoot.

[buaa]

I'm in the process of choosing a hand gun.
I'm an engineer, from this incidence I do see the value of the M&P process of not having to pull the trigger to take down the slide. Not fool proof but it might have saved this person's life.
I understand it is critical to follow safety procedures ALL the time but we should always strive for a design/process to make a pistol more tolerant to human errors.
No matter what we do to preach the safety rules, there will be errors made by someone.
I'm not trying to blame the pistol but I do see room to improve.

[Backwoodz]

I'm in the process of choosing a hand gun.
I'm an engineer, from this incidence I do see the value of the M&P process of not having to pull the trigger to take down the slide. Not fool proof but it might have saved this person's life.
I understand it is critical to follow safety procedures ALL the time but we should always strive for a design/process to make a pistol more tolerant to human errors.
No matter what we do to preach the safety rules, there will be errors made by someone.
I'm not trying to blame the pistol but I do see room to improve.
You might look at a Ruger SR9 or 9c....both have been safetied up quite well....but nothing will take the place of using good common sense. A gun is always loaded even when unloaded.

[teecro]

....

[dramey82]

Never mind....

Started to post then realized this is from last November. :roll:

[TomE]

Never mind....

Started to post then realized this is from last November. :roll:
:whistle:

But if it helps someone with their choice of weapon, it's all good.

[langenc]

I dont shoot Glocks but maybe a couple of Glock shooters can answer my question.

Did this happen cause the shooter removed the mag and thought the gun was empty and forgot about the one in the pipe??

I had occasion to shoot at the Ben Avery range N of Pheonix a few yrs ago.

Their procedure is to call 'cease fire, clear all weapons'. Then a RSO troops the line and looks at each chamber/gun. Any that are not empty are cleared. They have a 1/2 gal (or larger) pickle jar there quite full of rounds removed from EMPTY guns. They dump the jar more often than monthly, I believe the RSO said.

[rjrivero]

I dont shoot Glocks but maybe a couple of Glock shooters can answer my question.

Did this happen cause the shooter removed the mag and thought the gun was empty and forgot about the one in the pipe??Maybe. It could also be that he racked the round out of the slide, THEN removed the magazine. Either way, his protocol for clearing the gun was errant. As was his following of the four basic rules of safety. Watch how nonchalant folks at any big box gun shop are about muzzle discipline. Watch how nonchalant folks are about trigger discipline. You'll get the idea. There are four basic rules of gun safety for a reason. They all have to fail in order to have a catastrophic accident. If you are lax in one, you've just stepped one step closer to the catastrophic incident. If you live by the first three, you will be good to go.


I had occasion to shoot at the Ben Avery range N of Pheonix a few yrs ago.

Their procedure is to call 'cease fire, clear all weapons'. Then a RSO troops the line and looks at each chamber/gun. Any that are not empty are cleared. They have a 1/2 gal (or larger) pickle jar there quite full of rounds removed from EMPTY guns. They dump the jar more often than monthly, I believe the RSO said.
Yep. Lots of places will have similar safety protocols. Some places don't have RSO's on duty and require each shooter to be their own safety officer. It has a lot to do with insurance for each individual club.

[Roadblock]

Did this happen cause the shooter removed the mag and thought the gun was empty and forgot about the one in the pipe??


It happened because the shooter was negligent. The chamber is ALWAYS loaded, even when you KNOW it's not. If he had followed the the MAIN rule of firearms handing he would still be alive.

Assume it's always loaded guys. I don't care if you just cleared it, it's still loaded. If you have that mind set you will always keep it pointed in a safe direction and be aware of what you would destroy IF you have a negligent discharge, this type of stuff wouldn't happen.

[Rock337]

Saftey First...

[Gundad]

I've only been a gun owner for a couple of months. I work in a procedure based job, so I find that a mental checklist that you step thru in a deliberate manner helps.
1. Remove from holster
2. Decide where it is safe for muzzle to point.
3. Consciously remind self that trigger guard is a no entry zone (kind of like wife at times)
4. Remove the mag, put it down, in safe if kids are there.
5. My xd has an indicator that shows if a round is chambered. Assume it lies and verify visually, show the cleared chamber to other person if they are asking to handle ur weapon.
6. Safely hand weapon to other person and make them reverify that the weapon is clear.

Step 0. Can't proceed to step one after 1st beer. Weapon should be locked up already

I count thru the steps every time. Anyone have a suggested improvement?

[jackg]

I've only been a gun owner for a couple of months. I work in a procedure based job, so I find that a mental checklist that you step thru in a deliberate manner helps.
1. Remove from holster
2. Decide where it is safe for muzzle to point.
3. Consciously remind self that trigger guard is a no entry zone (kind of like wife at times)
4. Remove the mag, put it down, in safe if kids are there.
5. My xd has an indicator that shows if a round is chambered. Assume it lies and verify visually, show the cleared chamber to other person if they are asking to handle ur weapon.
6. Safely hand weapon to other person and make them reverify that the weapon is clear.

Step 0. Can't proceed to step one after 1st beer. Weapon should be locked up already

I count thru the steps every time. Anyone have a suggested improvement?

Because you're new to this & trying to train yourself I truly appreciate your efforts.
Now, let me ask you how you hand it over?

[Gundad]

Because you're new to this & trying to train yourself I truly appreciate your efforts.
Now, let me ask you how you hand it over?

After showing the other person that the weapon is clear, I hold the weapon by the slide with my hand covering the trigger. The muzzle is pointed in a safe direction and the easiest eay for them to take the weapon is by the grip. They can then reverify a cleared weapon. I always get a thank you for this in the gun shop

[wwjmaj]

I've only been a gun owner for a couple of months. I work in a procedure based job, so I find that a mental checklist that you step thru in a deliberate manner helps.
1. Remove from holster
2. Decide where it is safe for muzzle to point.
3. Consciously remind self that trigger guard is a no entry zone (kind of like wife at times)
4. Remove the mag, put it down, in safe if kids are there.
5. My xd has an indicator that shows if a round is chambered. Assume it lies and verify visually, show the cleared chamber to other person if they are asking to handle ur weapon.
6. Safely hand weapon to other person and make them reverify that the weapon is clear.

Step 0. Can't proceed to step one after 1st beer. Weapon should be locked up already

I count thru the steps every time. Anyone have a suggested improvement?

May I respectfully suggest you have 1 and 2 in the reverse order they should be. If you have already cleared the holster BEFORE you decide on a safe spot for the muzzle you may be aiming at me while you decide.

[jackg]

After showing the other person that the weapon is clear, I hold the weapon by the slide with my hand covering the trigger. The muzzle is pointed in a safe direction and the easiest eay for them to take the weapon is by the grip. They can then reverify a cleared weapon. I always get a thank you for this in the gun shop

Excellent, I think you'll do great.

[twodogsanme]

Over the years I have notice when there are accidents involving guns , Its the empty one's that kills . :cry:

[Gundad]

May I respectfully suggest you have 1 and 2 in the reverse order they should be. If you have already cleared the holster BEFORE you decide on a safe spot for the muzzle you may be aiming at me while you decide.

Good advice. Thanks, I'll make necessary adjustments

[1911lover]

Another one of those evil Glocks. They just go off all by themselves.

Of course it is accurately reported by a moron liberal reporter who probably cannot tell you which end is which on a handgun, adding further fuel to the lib moronic argument that guns are evil, with or without human stupidity.

[SimbaLion]

you have to pull the trigger to take a glock apart?

Is this unique to glock? a function of striker fired guns?

seems like a design flaw to me.

[DTruck]

you have to pull the trigger to take a glock apart?

Is this unique to glock? a function of striker fired guns?

seems like a design flaw to me.
Not unique to Glock. Several manufacturers "take-down's" include pulling the trigger to field strip.

[SimbaLion]

Not unique to Glock. Several manufacturers "take-down's" include pulling the trigger to field strip.

Well that seems like a design flaw to me. I think decockers should be standard on all guns. I understand some people don't like manual safeties, but a decocker is a no-brainer, if you ever have to unload your weapon.

A negligent discharge is still the fault of operator negligence, but I imagine a few lives could be saved. Pulling the trigger should only ever serve one purpose: to throw lead.

Just my opinion, your results may vary :)

:paw:

[ChaneyD]

You have to release the pressure on striker fired guns to remove the slide. Not a design flaw.

[SimbaLion]

You have to release the pressure on striker fired guns to remove the slide. Not a design flaw.

There's at least one striker fired pistol which has a decocker. So why can't glock add such a feature to their pistols?

[israelifal]

Well that seems like a design flaw to me. I think decockers should be standard on all guns. I understand some people don't like manual safeties, but a decocker is a no-brainer, if you ever have to unload your weapon.

A negligent discharge is still the fault of operator negligence, but I imagine a few lives could be saved. Pulling the trigger should only ever serve one purpose: to throw lead.

Just my opinion, your results may vary :)

:paw:

Dropping the magazine and push/pull the slide back to check for a clear chamber is a no brainer also... Adding one more step to clear or handle a firearm is not going to solve anything... People will still find a way to screw the process up of clearing a firearm or just plan out be playing with it and still shoot themselves or some one else.. So the "left-wing" view of adding more parts to a firearm to make it 'SAFER' isn't the going to help.... My favorite saying ' You can't fix stupid'....

[wurm]

you have to pull the trigger to take a glock apart?

Is this unique to glock? a function of striker fired guns?

seems like a design flaw to me.

The real design flaw is that you have to point a Glock at your chest when you pull the trigger to disassemble it. If only people could point the gun in a safe direction when disassembling a few lives could be saved. What was Glock thinking?

[wizzi01]

The real design flaw is that you have to point a Glock at your chest when you pull the trigger to disassemble it. If only people could point the gun in a safe direction when disassembling a few lives could be saved. What was Glock thinking?


You do? Funny I must be disassembling my Glocks wrong then.

[SimbaLion]

So the "left-wing" view of adding more parts to a firearm to make it 'SAFER' isn't the going to help.... My favorite saying ' You can't fix stupid'....

I'm somewhere in the center, politically. But I feel safety features don't hurt a firearm. I agree people will find a way to darwin their way to an early demise no matter how idiotproof you make something, but those numbers can be reduced. Personally, I don't think I'd buy a firearm that doesn't have some sort of decocking mechanism, at least not as an EDC. It's not that I lack confidence in my ability, I simply recognize the risk v reward, and potential costs of a mistake.

Sometimes I wonder if you'd prefer people accidentally kill themselves, as some sort of Machiavellian method of culling the species. But even so, I bet such an opinion would change if the person injured or killed was closer to home. "That'd never happen, everyone in my family knows how to handle their firearms!"

[jackg]

The real design flaw is that you have to point a Glock at your chest when you pull the trigger to disassemble it.

That's news to me, I point mine to the ground.

[DP425]

I'm somewhere in the center, politically. But I feel safety features don't hurt a firearm. I agree people will find a way to darwin their way to an early demise no matter how idiotproof you make something, but those numbers can be reduced. Personally, I don't think I'd buy a firearm that doesn't have some sort of decocking mechanism, at least not as an EDC. It's not that I lack confidence in my ability, I simply recognize the risk v reward, and potential costs of a mistake.

Sometimes I wonder if you'd prefer people accidentally kill themselves, as some sort of Machiavellian method of culling the species. But even so, I bet such an opinion would change if the person injured or killed was closer to home. "That'd never happen, everyone in my family knows how to handle their firearms!"


No reason to pile on unnecessary parts. At what point does it stop? Well if a decocker is reasonable, why not a trigger-block safety? While we are at it, lets add a key to the gun. Better yet, you can't accidentally shoot yourself if the gun isn't loading itself, so lets ban all auto-loaders; single shot and single action revolvers only... Wait, no... single action revolvers could be loaded with one under the hammer and you never know what could happen with the integral mechanism to stop the hammer from dropping!

The M2, .50 machine gun has been around since about 1933. Originally it had no safety; only recently has there been a push to add safeties, and still not all have been converted. Know how we stop people from ND's? Tell them to keep their damn thumbs off the butterfly unless they intend to fire the weapon. It's worked pretty well, with a few exceptions... but the same can be said for the M16/M4... which has a safety...

Additional levers and buttons don't assist in a safe firearm; often they cause confusion. Sigs and other exposed hammer DA/SA firearms have decockers because it's not intended to be carried with the hammer back; so to lower the hammer when the weapon is loaded, you either have to grasp the hammer and pull the trigger, or use the decocker; you tell me which is safe? Now... Striker fired weapons... different story. They are intended to be carried in the state they are in after releasing the slide to load; there is no need to decock a hammer for proper carrying. You're advocating adding something for the sole purpose of disassembly; not because it permits safe function and carry. The difference is, the intended use of a decocker as it was invented is to safely lower the hammer on a loaded chamber. Not to substitute for proper clearing prior to disassembly.

It's really very easy, clear the weapon, point in safe direction, pull trigger... What's the problem? This is actually a step in properly clearing most military weapons; it ensures that if you are an idiot and did screw up clearing the weapon, any chance of injury is eliminated by dropping the hammer. If a round is present, it will be fired safely; if not, you're good to go. BIG difference between having to hold a hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger to bring the hammer down on a loaded chamber in preparation for carry (use decocker) and pulling the trigger as part of the clearing and disassembly process.

[Mark.n.chip]

any idiot that opposes the pulling of the trigger to release spring tension, shouldn't be allowed around guns. A training method called dry fire is the best practice one can do period if anybody thinks otherwise I pity them. Therefore pointing the gun in a safe direction, wether to dryfire for practice or dryfire to release spring tension should not be a problem.

[RYANINDAVISON]

I always clear a weapon three or so times before finally dry firing in a safe direction before I start breaking it down to clean. Even then I don't point it at my chest.

[israelifal]

I'm somewhere in the center, politically. But I feel safety features don't hurt a firearm. I agree people will find a way to darwin their way to an early demise no matter how idiotproof you make something, but those numbers can be reduced. Personally, I don't think I'd buy a firearm that doesn't have some sort of decocking mechanism, at least not as an EDC. It's not that I lack confidence in my ability, I simply recognize the risk v reward, and potential costs of a mistake.

Sometimes I wonder if you'd prefer people accidentally kill themselves, as some sort of Machiavellian method of culling the species. But even so, I bet such an opinion would change if the person injured or killed was closer to home. "That'd never happen, everyone in my family knows how to handle their firearms!"

You wonder if I'd prefer someone to kill themselves.....!!!!!! You are an IDIOT for sure and are doing nothing for the firearm industry... I bet you feel cars should only have low horsepower 4cyl in them cause fast cars kill people... And as I've said before it come's down to training.... For your stupid comment about closer to home.... Everyone in my house is very aware on how to handle a firearm by means of barrel safe direction and check for clear BEFORE pulling the trigger... My family will be fine as my 7yr old knows how to clear a firearm... I'm not here to save the world or people who don't listen or want help learning about firearm safety. You don't want to own a Glock or similar style firearm then don't buy one, It doesn't matter to me.... If people kill themselves over their own stupidity because of the "I got this" attitude.. It's not my problem nor am I going to make it my problem... If you want to feel good about making a change go to a Dem/Lib party and tell them all your wisdom and they will pat you on the back and make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, so next time before you just assume what I'm thinking or believe from behind your key board think twice...

[jackg]

You wonder if I'd prefer someone to kill themselves.....!!!!!! You are an IDIOT for sure and are doing nothing for the firearm industry...

Why not find your recliner, relax & take a nap. :-)

[israelifal]

Why not find your recliner, relax & take a nap. :-)

Oh very relaxed and nap when I can...:grin: I don't get upset here.. Just type with some energy to get my point across... People are just annoying when they type about add this, take this away, restrict this for it to be "safer" but then claim they are ALL for OUR right's. When they are just as bad as the Left..... I'm a left-handed shooter, I can sit here a whine about all the firearms that are built for a right-hander, but there's no need, I'll just buy the firearm or what ever that works for me the best. I don't even switch mag release's on my pistol's cause I'm use to right handed controls. I'm not going to call some company and demand them to make a lefty firearm so it's safer for me to use... Buy what's comfy and easiest to use( for me) and PRACTICE/TRAIN with it so I know how it all works and handle's.. We have all seen the ceiling area's at the range's and noticed the hole's everywhere... Lack of training and lack of asking for help to learn something is why people get hurt/killed. so if my view of all this is believed to be that it's someway to "thin out the herd" then so be it. I'm not very concerned about what people's view of me is and if more people would care less about what people thought of them life would be a lot easier. :twocents:

[Standby]

Sad....basic safety rules....BASIC....Would have kept this from happening.

[jackg]

Oh very relaxed and nap when I can...:grin: I don't get upset here.. Just type with some energy to get my point across... People are just annoying when they type about add this, take this away, restrict this for it to be "safer" but then claim they are ALL for OUR right's. When they are just as bad as the Left..... I'm a left-handed shooter, I can sit here a whine about all the firearms that are built for a right-hander, but there's no need, I'll just buy the firearm or what ever that works for me the best. I don't even switch mag release's on my pistol's cause I'm use to right handed controls. I'm not going to call some company and demand them to make a lefty firearm so it's safer for me to use... Buy what's comfy and easiest to use( for me) and PRACTICE/TRAIN with it so I know how it all works and handle's.. We have all seen the ceiling area's at the range's and noticed the hole's everywhere... Lack of training and lack of asking for help to learn something is why people get hurt/killed. so if my view of all this is believed to be that it's someway to "thin out the herd" then so be it. I'm not very concerned about what people's view of me is and if more people would care less about what people thought of them life would be a lot easier. :twocents:

I agree, it's a very different world today & I have trouble relating to the "social media" way of life. Everytime I see my grand kids their head is down & their thumbs are flying. :mad:
Sorry for getting off topic, I just had a senior moment. That's my story..............