VERY bad day at the oakland county sportsmans club I MAY not return to shoot there

[Dabears!]

I will not be renewing my membership there after this.

Went to shoot trap with the girlfriend yesterday, we are both fairly new to trap and still learning.
I have never had formal stance instruction on shooting trap or skeet so my stance was just as comfortable as i felt, which apparently was too relaxed.
the young girl who was doing the pulling and score keeping for us, made a polite gesture to show us both a better way to stand to improve our scores, being new i WELCOMED it.
she requested my shotgun, i cleared it and handed it to her with the bolt locked back.

we were about 10 feet apart from eachother like this
Ashleyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Gril xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ME

she proceeds to show the stance that she uses and that most shotgun shooters use, before she got halfway through she pointed my shotgun AT my girlfriend 4 times!!!
i saw it happen the first time and started to walk towards her, keep in mind were 10 feet apart with hearing protection on so i wasnt about to yell.
doesnt take much time to walk 10' in a hurry, but in that short time she managed to point it at ashley 3 more times and the 4th one she was keeping it on her.

I got to her and moved the barrel of the shotgun forward and asked her with a bit of a raised slightly frustrated voice, "please do not point a gun at her."


This is where **** hit the fan.
the girls response was
"why, is it loaded?"
according to the misses, my eyes opened wide and i was visibly angry as soon as i heard that.
the first thing i said before removing my gun from her hands is "every gun is ALWAYS(louder than the rest) loaded and you should know that."
the young girl had the audacity to ROLL HER EYES AT ME.

Needless to say we were done, went inside, she got half of a tip lucky she even got that.

I spoke to the gentleman running the shotgun house, who recognizes me from the shop and from coming up to the club quite often.

i told him that she was trying to do something nice and i am not complaining about that, i was complaining about the lack of responsibility with a gun, the lack of care and the lack of education.


he said to me
"She didnt do it on purpose what is the big deal it was an accident"
I asked him if he saw a problem with her unsafe handling of the firearm and he did not.
plain and simple.
ACCIDENTS CAUSE MORE ACCIDENTS

**** like this is why they had a Negligent discharge by one of their PPC members a while ago, THERE IS ZERO care or responsibility on how to properly handle a firearm, and that is when people get shot.

look at the man who shot his 7 year old, he thought the gun was unloaded....
SSDD?

I have never said an unkind word about that establishment and i now understand why they no longer have a waiting list.
They lost a member yesterday, they lost a new member that was with me and they have lost every recommendation i have made and will make that people go there.




Too long, didnt read.
helpful young lady under the employment of oakland county sportsmans club points a shotgun at my girlfriend 4 times and the people in charge did not care or think that she should practice safe firearm handling.

What i do not understand is how do they employee these people and not cover basic gun safety????????


also this has NO AFFILIATION with Genos Tools & guns
this opinion is MINE only and does not reflect how the business feels about the club.

[durus5995]

Don't blame you one bit. Its one thing to slip up and accidentally break a safety rule but, its an entirely different problem where its shrugged off not once but TWICE by people who work there.

This is the same reason I will not go to some gun stores around the area.

[Nickoli61089]

Why don't you write a letter explaining everything you just stated with emphasis on you will not renew, you lost another member and no recommendation will ever come out of your mouth again.

I can talk to my neighbor who shoots there very often with his kids to see if this is a normal occurrence if you would like.

[jmanz6]

Multi-Lakes has a very nice trap and skeet field as well as a good sporting clays course. I have a friend who was a member at OCSC and didn't renew (not because of your issues) and is looking into joining Multi-Lakes so we have been shooting there a lot. Other than the clays course having some wonky traps, we have always had a good experience.

[HVYMTLMEC]

Well lets see any gun sport that thinks that it is okay putting their gun barrels resting on their toes is a sign and a clue. Also OCSC is not that nice of a place.

[HoldHard]

We had the same thing going on a few years back at DSC in the shotgun building which houses the basement pistol range. The shotgun shooters would normally "mount" their shotguns, swinging them side to side to get the "feel" of them in transition, pointing them in just about any direction. One day when one of the competition pistol shooters was walking in, he found himself looking down the barrels of an over and under 12 gauge. He politely asked the guy "Can you please point that somewhere else". The guy responded "It's not loaded".

The pistol shooter pulled his unloaded pistol out of his gunbag and pointed it at the shotgunner. He about crapped his pants. "What the ******* are you doing?" he screamed. "It's not loaded" came the response.

The issue was brought up at the next Board of Director's meeting and a notice is now posted in the shotgun building. "No mounting of weapons allowed on this floor unless under the direct supervision of the NRA instructors and only during NRA classes."

We don't get guns pointed at us anymore. Nobody should. Detroit Sportsmens Congress has had a Vice President that is in charge of safety for all disciplines of shooting going back numerous years. On safety aspects, his word is final including dismissal from the club.

You can't whistle a bullet back.

HH

[Dabears!]

nick there is a letter being typed up it will be going to the president and various members I know there.
gene had a similar incident the first time he used their rifle range. he went down range on a cease fire and someone was playing with their rifle while he walked back point towards him.

its not the nicest club around ill agree to that. but it was always enjoyable either shooting or talking to the old timers there I always had a good time.

multilakes is where im looking at next for shotgun shooting. I sincerely hope some of these clubs around me practice proper safety

[sse]

"why is it loaded?"
LOL

[METL]

Not 1, but FOUR ****g times?!? Oh hell no...

[JohnJak]

nick there is a letter being typed up it will be going to the president and various members I know there.
gene had a similar incident the first time he used their rifle range. he went down range on a cease fire and someone was playing with their rifle while he walked back point towards him.

its not the nicest club around ill agree to that. but it was always enjoyable either shooting or talking to the old timers there I always had a good time.

multilakes is where im looking at next for shotgun shooting. I sincerely hope some of these clubs around me practice proper safety
This has happened to me also outside and indoor ranges.

I did not renew my membership 3 years ago.

[tote'ngranny]

Yeah .. time to find another club, but not before you explain to the club president why. That girl could get someone killed and the club sued big time.

[Dabears!]

i have already stated i am writing a letter to him.

[Magnum Man]

Well lets see any gun sport that thinks that it is okay putting their gun barrels resting on their toes is a sign and a clue. Also OCSC is not that nice of a place.
We don't allow that at our club, we have rubber pads at each station to rest guns on. Many clubs only allow shooters with break action guns to do this, still not a good idea, you wouldn't catch me doing it. It's a bad habit to get into, I have a friend named three toe Joe that can attest to it.

[ka64]

They still have pullers? Most places are voice activated....... :rofl:

That should be a first clue.

[mrbeachtc]

Wow! Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

[dramey82]

Contact member dmo8361 I know he's a member of the Lapeer County Sportsmans Club, It might be a little farther to drive.

[partdeux]

Wayne county sportsman club, a guy had a ND right in front of me with the muzzle loosely pointed in my direction. Best part, I was considered persona non grata for daring to talk about the safety standards.

Even better part, club did not have a trauma kit or even a published procedure in the case of a shooting.

several months later at another range, I overheard a conversation about the safety standards at Wayne county... Didn't even prompt the discussion, and several people said the place scared them.

[jimmyz]

Thanks for the warning. I was considering joining OCSC, but I think that I will look elsewhere now.

[nrich1979]

I have always wondered the consequences of what would happen..

Having the opportunity to visit a lot of ranges and gun stores I have sadly had more guns pointed at me than a contractor in Detroit..

Each time I have been polite, and firm in demanding that the gun be pointed in a different direction.. But at some point I have been curious if teaching a lesson by pulling my firearm and returning the gesture isn't the right response..

I know legally the **** storm it would cause is not worth it.. nor do I want to get into a mexican standoff..

But it pisses me off to no end when people casually think that because they know a gun is unloaded it's fine to point it at me..

[JohnJak]

I also like going to gun shows and watch people handle the guns with fingers on the trigger sweeping the people around.

[nrich1979]

I also like going to gun shows and watch people handle the guns with fingers on the trigger sweeping the people around.

In all seriousness too many people get shot at gun shows..

[bagz013]

I will not be renewing my membership there after this.

Went to shoot trap with the girlfriend yesterday, we are both fairly new to trap and still learning.


Of all the things in this whole story, all you guys are focusing on the wrong thing here.

DABEARS HAS A GF!!!!......and she breaths air like the rest of us:score: :score: :score:

All joking aside, thanks for taking a stand Kris! I'm glad you decided to post this and will continue discourage people from this business.

You're reaction also reiterated to your GF how important safety REALLY is. You managed to turn a VERY bad experience into a potentially good one by educating the rest of us of the bad practices of OCSC and showing yet again why safety is important to a new shooter.
*Edit*-maybe shes not a new shooter just a new trap shooter....didn't think about that but either way GOOD JOB!!

Hey, you should write a letter or something:facepalm:

[Dabears!]

Of all the things in this whole story, all you guys are focusing on the wrong thing here.

DABEARS HAS A GF!!!!......and she breaths air like the rest of us:score: :score: :score:

All joking aside, thanks for taking a stand Kris! I'm glad you decided to post this and will continue discourage people from this business.

You're reaction also reiterated to your GF how important safety REALLY is. You managed to turn a VERY bad experience into a potentially good one by educating the rest of us of the bad practices of OCSC and showing yet again why safety is important to a new shooter.
*Edit*-maybe shes not a new shooter just a new trap shooter....didn't think about that but either way GOOD JOB!!

Hey, you should write a letter or something:facepalm:
she is a newish shooter, she enjoys shooting we just dont get to do it as much as wed like to.
yes she breathes air like the rest of us haha

[bagz013]

she is a newish shooter, she enjoys shooting we just dont get to do it as much as wed like to.
yes she breathes air like the rest of us haha

Well if ya'll are ever down in the Kensington Park area and wanna shoot at Island Lakes lemme know.

We live about 5 min from there.(Myself and lady)

[johntncm]

If she's newish,is she gonna celebrate Christmas with you. :-P

[Dabears!]

i dont celebrate it.

[sonicmatter]

I'm glad you recognize the importance of gun safety and muzzle control. Too many people are nonchalant, get complacent, and that's when something bad can happen. Complacency and guns is potentially a deadly mixture.

[Terry - OCSC]

Today, I was made aware of the situation that happened this past weekend at the Oakland County Sportmen's Club Skeet and Trap Ranges

As the President of the Oakland County Sportsmen's Club I take this issue very seriously. I did speak with Kris regarding this issue and I cannot express my deepest concern as to the situations of that event.

I can tell you prior to my notfication our Shotgun President was made aware of this on Sunday evening and had already began his investigation.

We at the Oakland County Sportsmen's Club hold Range Safety very important to both Our Members and Guests. We are still addressing this issue and can asure all that every effort will be exhausted to promote firearm safety in every situation, even it that means re-fresh eduction to our workers and volunteers.

Respectfully,

Terry

OCSC President

[Dabears!]

I'm glad you recognize the importance of gun safety and muzzle control. Too many people are nonchalant, get complacent, and that's when something bad can happen. Complacency and guns is potentially a deadly mixture.
it is something i take very seriously and when an origination that is helping keep our tradition of shooting and sporting alive, shows that lack of concern or care then there is a MAJOR MAJOR problem.


it sucks that i need to find a new club but endangering my girlfriend 4 times and not caring about it, and then the guy in charge not caring about it is a sure way to get me pissed off and say thank you for your money we dont care.

as terry said he did call and apologize, i sincerely think he does not think the way i just described, but that is the feeling that his member/employee left on me and it is what i will remember whenever i hear the club name.

it is not just organizations that need proper firearm handling education.
I wore a golf stroke counter one saturday at the shop and made it to 18 times in 8 hours a gun was pointed at me.
people think it goes unnoticed but it does not.

[langenc]

Why don't you write a letter explaining everything you just stated with emphasis on you will not renew, you lost another member and no recommendation will ever come out of your mouth again.

I can talk to my neighbor who shoots there very often with his kids to see if this is a normal occurrence if you would like.

Definitely send a letter or appear at the next board (or whatever they call it) meeting and tell em.

Also let em know you will tell all you know about this situation.

Could have told the young lady that XX% of people are killed with unloaded guns.. XX= whatever number you think of at the time.

[Dabears!]

Definitely send a letter or appear at the next board (or whatever they call it) meeting and tell em.

Also let em know you will tell all you know about this situation.

Could have told the young lady that XX% of people are killed with unloaded guns.. XX= whatever number you think of at the time.


next persob to tell me to write a letter is getting insulted...

as for them read up a dew that is the president of the club and he knows.

I wouldn't make up ******** numbers tp further the agenda that is lying plain and simple sir I will not be a part of it.

[seery]

Probably a good idea if you wrote a letter. :welcome:

[DP425]

I think I'd have asked the guy:

"So, if I drop the mag on my pistol, clear the chamber, walk over and put the muzzle to her head.... That would be okay with you?"

[METL]

If she's newish,is she gonna celebrate Christmas with you. :-P

Hey, -I- got the joke... :laughing:




I think I'd have asked the guy:

"So, if I drop the mag on my pistol, clear the chamber, walk over and put the muzzle to her head.... That would be okay with you?"


Seriously... it's pretty much the same thing... sweeping someone once is on accident is one thing, but doing it repeatedly then not caring is pretty much the same as on purpose.




Also, seriously... I think you should write them a couple letters... :biggrin:

[sse]

I'd definitely be writing a letter, and send it certified.

[Dabears!]

I'd definitely be writing a letter, and send it certified.
i hate each and every one of you so much LOL
i didnt get the xmas joke metl care to enlighten me haha.

letter is about done taking my time on it and making it clear.

[sse]

Or take it in personally.

[gassmann]

replace the N with a J in newish

[Dabears!]

ohhhh, hahaha right over my head!!!

not a new girlfriend, over a year now, newish to shooting haha

[johntncm]

Finally

[5alarm435]

Every time I check in on this thread, I'm surprised no one has asked for a picture of the gf to be posted yet.

[Dabears!]

Every time I check in on this thread, I'm surprised no one has asked for a picture of the gf to be posted yet.
because people are respectful.
this isnt about her its about firearm safety.

[sse]

Funny, she doesn't look newish...

[Dabears!]

spaceballs.
<3 john candy
RIP sir, back on topic please though.

[shore007]

I'd write a letter... J/k

Admirable effort on bringing a very serious issue to light, and reminding us all that gun safety 101 is the utmost important rule - period. It's a reminder that even those in the field of firearms should periodically take refresher safety courses, expecially if they are in a position to train or guide others.

[nrich1979]

I'd..................



Send an email..


Because letters are soo 1800's

[Mongo]

next persob to tell me to write a letter is getting insulted...

as for them read up a dew that is the president of the club and he knows.

I wouldn't make up ******** numbers tp further the agenda that is lying plain and simple sir I will not be a part of it.

Sorry, don't insult me, but I had a different take on the letter. I don't know anything about the club in question, but most clubs have SOME affiliation with the NRA. If you don't get a response from the club that is satisfactory, maybe you could voice your concerns to the NRA.

The NRA takes safety seriously.

[Shyster]

Guys, read post #28 for chrissakes. Sounds like OCSC is trying to do the right thing here.

I love how people keep jumping in and responding without bothering to read the whole thread. How about giving them a break?

[Dabears!]

Sorry, don't insult me, but I had a different take on the letter. I don't know anything about the club in question, but most clubs have SOME affiliation with the NRA. If you don't get a response from the club that is satisfactory, maybe you could voice your concerns to the NRA.

The NRA takes safety seriously.

i was being facetious :)
the club has responded i doubt it would have to go to anything like that. thanks for that info though it would be a good route to go had they not called me personally the next day the club was open.
I believe that the club will handle it but i would like to find a way to see some form of proof that carelessness like that and that kind of non caring response to someone complaining about people being unsafe with a firearm.

its not my goal to hurt the club, i do however want them to get the message across to its members that gun safety needs to be practiced so they do not have one of these accidental shootings that could have been prevented if following the most basic safety rules THAT THEY ASK YOU TO FOLLOW.

A man just killed his SEVEN year old SON because he thought the gun was not loaded.

I know for a fact they do not want one of those accidents to happen at their establishment.

I want them to grow from this and be better from it, not get fined shrivel and die.
There are a LOT of really really great people at that club that had nothing to do with what happened.
:)

[esq_stu]

I would not belong to or visit a club like that. Edited to add: I'm glad their president responded appropriately and I look forward to hearing that the situation has been resolved permanently. I once belonged to a club where you could lose your membership privileges based on a single incident of unsafe behavior like that.

[Any club that has recurrent issues like this] should lose their NRA affiliation for that kind of conduct, especially if they defend it.

[sse]

And one would hope that response is followed up with further letters...

[nrich1979]

[Any club that has recurrent issues like this] should lose their NRA affiliation for that kind of conduct, especially if they defend it.

Whoa!!!

Hang on..

Why would the NRA stop their endorsement..

It's not like the club failed to pay their dues and that is the primary purpose of the NRA to collect dues.. I mean it's a lot of work to send out 44 emails a week saying that we are all going to die in death camps..

Anyhow back on topic..


Can I send a letter on your behalf since you seem so reluctant?

[DP425]

Whoa!!!

Hang on..

Why would the NRA stop their endorsement..

It's not like the club failed to pay their dues and that is the primary purpose of the NRA to collect dues.. I mean it's a lot of work to send out 44 emails a week saying that we are all going to die in death camps..

Anyhow back on topic..


Can I send a letter on your behalf since you seem so reluctant?


LOL!!! I got caught up in the legislative issues and didn't check back on this thread.

I haven't been involved in the NRA in YEARS for that very reason. A good friend of mine, who supports gun rights, but has in the past not been active in his support- having never given it priority and usually voted democrat with no thought of stance on gun control... recently voted for his first republican governor as a resident of Wisconsin based entirely on the CPL issue. Around this time, he also joined the NRA. After a short time having joined the NRA he told me he will not renew his membership and will never given them any money again because of the amount of postal mail, email and phone calls he receives. And I don't blame him one bit. Both him and I agree- we understand the need to raise money to continue to advocate for gun owners... but when told to stop soliciting a person and they continue to do so with continued regularity... that is not only disrespectful to your members, but it is a waste of money that could be better used. The way I figure it, if you pay your year dues and that is it... they MUST spend at least half of those dues on their solicitation, mailings and magazines.

I would be an NRA member today if they simply had a legitimate option to opt out of all further solicitations save for membership renewal toward the end of your year. The ONLY way you don't get harassed by them is if you give an anonymous donation... and that is truly sad.

[Huntime]

I have been a member of OCSC since 1976 and a 2 time previous President of the Shotgun Club. I am truly sorry to hear of the situation that happened at the shotgun range. I am glad to hear that you sent a letter to our club and I see Terry has reponded to it. Be assured there will be follow up to this situation and it will not be dismissed without more investigation and actions to remedy that situation.
Unfortunately many of the youngsters that are hired for pulling skeet or trap are not shooters themselves or at best may belong to Jr. Shotgun which means they certainly should know about gun safety.
Also we do have voice activated fields but sometimes if they fail we use pullers. Pullers are also used to keep score for the shooters. I would hope that you and your girlfriend would give OCSC another opportunity. In fact if you would like I would offer to help you in your pursuit in learning clay shooting be it trap or skeet. I am sure any shotgun member in the club would offer assistance if you inquired. I know that when I use any range I try not to insert myself into someones activity as I do not know their level of expertise. If they have a safety issue I will be on them like white on rice.
As a member you can actively participate on the range committee and as a member you can also bring this situation in front of a Board of Directors meeting.
Thank you and I hope you will give OCSC a chance again.
Ron Gerchow

[vietboy1st]

wow they have no common sense. You should go to a new club. I hate it when a person is pointing a gun at me or swining around with it.. Bad habit will have a bad consequence when it does happen. I wonder what would they gonna do? Be regret for the rest of their life behind bar..

[Dabears!]

I have been a member of OCSC since 1976 and a 2 time previous President of the Shotgun Club. I am truly sorry to hear of the situation that happened at the shotgun range. I am glad to hear that you sent a letter to our club and I see Terry has reponded to it. Be assured there will be follow up to this situation and it will not be dismissed without more investigation and actions to remedy that situation.
Unfortunately many of the youngsters that are hired for pulling skeet or trap are not shooters themselves or at best may belong to Jr. Shotgun which means they certainly should know about gun safety.
Also we do have voice activated fields but sometimes if they fail we use pullers. Pullers are also used to keep score for the shooters. I would hope that you and your girlfriend would give OCSC another opportunity. In fact if you would like I would offer to help you in your pursuit in learning clay shooting be it trap or skeet. I am sure any shotgun member in the club would offer assistance if you inquired. I know that when I use any range I try not to insert myself into someones activity as I do not know their level of expertise. If they have a safety issue I will be on them like white on rice.
As a member you can actively participate on the range committee and as a member you can also bring this situation in front of a Board of Directors meeting.
Thank you and I hope you will give OCSC a chance again.
Ron Gerchow


what the staff did there was completely and totally unacceptable, thank you for your offer but as i have stated, the damage has been done, anywhere that puts my life of the life of my loved ones in danger and disregards me as an ******* for mentioning it(not terry) is not anywhere i want to be, the man running the counter that day and that young lady ruined any chances i have of going shooting at the club again, it just wont happen.

there are too many VERY REAL accidents that kill people with firearms to think that allowing them to happen is kosher.

[donald150]

Well it's still safer than Target Sports :hide:






That really sucks.


I have been a member of OCSC for 2-3 years now and I still have not shot clays there.

I have actually only used the Rifle and Pistol range about 10 times. Every time I have been there it was a ghost town so I had no worries.





BTW: It's still safer than Target Sports.....Just Saying......

[Dabears!]

have not heard back from them sent the letter out 12-17-2012


it appears their interest in handling the matter was a publicity stunt on MGO...
i feel more insulted now than when it happened.

[Roundballer]

When is their Board meeting? Most clubs' Boards only meet once a month. Even if they have met, they may not have a resolution implemented yet, so nothing to report yet.

[Huntime]

Well at this point I will insert what I know and have folllowed up on.
I know that all pullers at the shotgun club will be re-trained in handling firearms according to the Hunter Safety Program. Hopefully they will utilize a suggestion made that they DO NOT touch any shooters firearm at any time even if that firearm is falling when set in a rack. I to would suggest for you to appear at a board meeting, but since you are not a member nor were a member{your previous membership had expired in March of 2012 and had not been renewed} when this happened you may need some help in this regard. In any case if you would like to present this to the board I would be glad to accompany you.
Again I apologize for what happened, steps are being taken to insure this doesn't happen again. I would also would never hand my shotgun to a youngster pulling skeet or trap at any gun club, we have many experienced shooters that would be glad to help when asked. If you would like to discuss this further please PM me.
Sincerely,
Ron Gerchow
OCSC member
Ex-Shotgun Cub President

[Dabears!]

Well at this point I will insert what I know and have folllowed up on.
I know that all pullers at the shotgun club will be re-trained in handling firearms according to the Hunter Safety Program. Hopefully they will utilize a suggestion made that they DO NOT touch any shooters firearm at any time even if that firearm is falling when set in a rack. I to would suggest for you to appear at a board meeting, but since you are not a member nor were a member{your previous membership had expired in March of 2012 and had not been renewed} when this happened you may need some help in this regard. In any case if you would like to present this to the board I would be glad to accompany you.
Again I apologize for what happened, steps are being taken to insure this doesn't happen again. I would also would never hand my shotgun to a youngster pulling skeet or trap at any gun club, we have many experienced shooters that would be glad to help when asked. If you would like to discuss this further please PM me.
Sincerely,
Ron Gerchow
OCSC member
Ex-Shotgun Cub President
im well aware that my membership was expired thank you for mentioning that though.
it was not renewed due to seeing people being ok with members drinking and then going shooting.
I had considered joining again so my girlfriend could start shooting again and the incident that happened ruined any chances of that.

im not sure what the date of my membership expiring has to do with it though.
a youngster? again your choice of words confuses me it seems as if you are trying to shift the focus.
she was at least 15 and talking about how she shoots trap at the club.
that being said it speaks volumes about her actionsthat day. being a active shooter at the club one would think safety would be followed
I met your experienced shooter inside he told me what happened wasnt a big deal.
it was quite helpful advice.
I wouldn't focus on not touching guns(even if they are falling? really)
id focus on teaching them to properly handle them and not point them at people. they need to be trained in how to handle them not to avoid them.
its like having a kid who hits the curb everytimethey turn left. convincing them to make three rights until they dont need to do the thing that is the issue. it wont solve a thing.

[wsr]

im well aware that my membership was expired thank you for mentioning that though.
it was not renewed due to seeing people being ok with members drinking and then going shooting.
I had considered joining again so my girlfriend could start shooting again and the incident that happened ruined any chances of that.

im not sure what the date of my membership expiring has to do with it though.
a youngster? again your choice of words confuses me it seems as if you are trying to shift the focus.
she was at least 15 and talking about how she shoots trap at the club.
that being said it speaks volumes about her actionsthat day. being a active shooter at the club one would think safety would be followed
I met your experienced shooter inside he told me what happened wasnt a big deal.
it was quite helpful advice.
I wouldn't focus on not touching guns(even if they are falling? really)
id focus on teaching them to properly handle them and not point them at people. they need to be trained in how to handle them not to avoid them.
its like having a kid who hits the curb everytimethey turn left. convincing them to make three rights until they dont need to do the thing that is the issue. it wont solve a thing.

of course your membership status is important...I am pretty sure its in the fine print of the bylaws that its acceptable to point guns at non-members.
I can see the safety meeting now... so we had this non-member ******* complain about having a gun pointed at him and his GF so to teach them a lesson you guys can't even touch one if its falling HA

[Huntime]

I guess my point about membership was that you stated that you would not be renewing your memebership because of this incident. You weren't a member when this happened. So what you stated was untrue. The pullers will be put through safe firearn handling. I don't know who the desk person was that you spoke with so I don't know how experienced they are at trap or skeet as they are volunteer workers. Since you work in a gun shop I am sure you hear enough B.S. as people relate how they have handled guns for years and are dang near experts, so there should be no worry when they are handling guns. A 15 year old is still a kid that's why they don't drive cars.
As I look over this forum I see many firearm related incidents posted but none seem to drag on like this. I offered to have you come and shoot and I would help you with your shooting stance for the various stations. You did not want that as you were never going back. I related what Terry had discussed with me. You posted you hadn't heard anything back since you sent a letter 12-17-12, I don't think they have had a board of directors meeting due to the Holidays.
To possibly make a point let's say I did a search for reviews on your shop and found 3 and 2 of those 3 were not very kind. That might be enough to keep me from being a customer in your store. Is everything that person posted correct, I don't know. I also asked if you would like to discuss some more please PM me, but you would rather quote me and then post your response.
We were founded in 1943, I have been a member since 1976 and know of no fatalities other than road racing at our club. We have been doing Hunter Safety classes since they were first required. We have a Jr. Rifle Club and a Jr. Shotgun Club, so we have been active in safely promoting the shooting sports for many years.

[Dabears!]

as i stated, i was going there to go shooting with my girlfriend who wants to start shooting shotgun once a week, i had every intention of putting anything i had aside and rejoining,(drinking then shooting complaint) so her and i could do that together.

im not the kind to answer a public question behind curtains.
i understand what you offered and thank you for that, i have a friend who shoots trap at another club who will be giving me "lessons".

no fatalities is not an excuse.
accidents CAN happen, that is what needs to come from this, not petty comments about my membership status to a club.


ill put it in the words you put it.
a 15 year old girl under the employment of somewhere that has been active in safely promoting the shooting sports for since 1943, pointed a gun at my girlfriend. and the the person representing the club that day said it was not important.

sounds kinda bad reading all of those great things(history, age of club, promoting shooting sports) get fouled up by someone not being educated on firearm safety by her employers that safely promote shooting sports?
or what about the lack of care from the people who were there?
reflects well on the organization.

you keep posting wanting this to be fixed and better and gone but terry is the only person from the club who has made a comment that showed care and concern.
your concern was me not being a member(im sorry i misspoke), me not replying to your post publicly for some reason, and teaching the children there to not touch guns instead of being allowed to handle them in a safe manor.

Terry ondusky(sp), president of OCSC, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN. Sincerely man thanks, like i said you seemed to be one of the few people thats talked to me from the club who sees this for what it is and im very glad they have someone like you in charge sir.

[who dat]

Kris, suck it up. It's obvious they think you're a nutjob, a whiner, a chronic complainer and it's all your fault. Bow to the masters.

Seriously, his pettiness is truly amazing to me.

[ka64]

I guess my point about membership was that you stated that you would not be renewing your memebership because of this incident. You weren't a member when this happened. So what you stated was untrue. The pullers will be put through safe firearn handling. I don't know who the desk person was that you spoke with so I don't know how experienced they are at trap or skeet as they are volunteer workers. Since you work in a gun shop I am sure you hear enough B.S. as people relate how they have handled guns for years and are dang near experts, so there should be no worry when they are handling guns. A 15 year old is still a kid that's why they don't drive cars.
As I look over this forum I see many firearm related incidents posted but none seem to drag on like this. I offered to have you come and shoot and I would help you with your shooting stance for the various stations. You did not want that as you were never going back. I related what Terry had discussed with me. You posted you hadn't heard anything back since you sent a letter 12-17-12, I don't think they have had a board of directors meeting due to the Holidays.
To possibly make a point let's say I did a search for reviews on your shop and found 3 and 2 of those 3 were not very kind. That might be enough to keep me from being a customer in your store. Is everything that person posted correct, I don't know. I also asked if you would like to discuss some more please PM me, but you would rather quote me and then post your response.
We were founded in 1943, I have been a member since 1976 and know of no fatalities other than road racing at our club. We have been doing Hunter Safety classes since they were first required. We have a Jr. Rifle Club and a Jr. Shotgun Club, so we have been active in safely promoting the shooting sports for many years.

Really? You need to quit before you get deeper. JMHO.......

[ka64]

Kris, suck it up. It's obvious they think you're a nutjob, a whiner, a chronic complainer and it's all your fault. Bow to the masters.

Seriously, his pettiness is truly amazing to me.

Tru Dat but thats beside the point......... :shock:

[autosurgeon]

Sounds to me like the club is trying to make it right and you need to give a bit Kris..... As a person that runs the Trap program at my club I know that we have issues with people and muzzle safety now and then. We address it and move on. As for the way the kid responded, without knowing how you spoke to the kid I cannot speak to that... however as a teacher I know that a 15 year old will respond based on how you talk to them... they don't filter... so if you shouted at a 15 yo (as an example I am not saying you did) you can expect a wrong response as they will get rattled.


Should people sweep others with a shotgun? NO however what more can the club do besides retrain and move on? They cannot go back in time and correct it before you attended.

[Dabears!]

Sounds to me like the club is trying to make it right and you need to give a bit Kris..... As a person that runs the Trap program at my club I know that we have issues with people and muzzle safety now and then. We address it and move on. As for the way the kid responded, without knowing how you spoke to the kid I cannot speak to that... however as a teacher I know that a 15 year old will respond based on how you talk to them... they don't filter... so if you shouted at a 15 yo (as an example I am not saying you did) you can expect a wrong response as they will get rattled.


Should people sweep others with a shotgun? NO however what more can the club do besides retrain and move on? They cannot go back in time and correct it before you attended.
i wasnt upset as much about the young lady's reaction as i was by the adult insides reaction.

like i have already said, the president of club seems to take this very seriously and i appreciate it.
but the other guy seems to think that since i wasnt a member at the time its ok.

[joepistol]

Kris,
Do you need to wear body armor @ work ?..or are you wearing it already ?

Just read this thread for the first time..As you know, I've been a OCSC member a long time, ( since '87 )

I agree with your emphasis on safe gun handling & share your belief that the adult supervisor should have expressed much more seriousness toward the situation. If all gun owners had the same conviction on this subject,there would be far fewer accidents.

I also understand both the need for the club to use volunteers for many roles, as well as the limitations of some of those who are the volunteers. Unfortunately, Some are not the brightest. I know the club has a strong emphasis on safety. The incident will be addressed on a variety of levels, including the BOD meeting. If you read the meeting notes, published in the newsletter that members receive every month, you would know this does happen. The indoor range, where the ND occurred, had a rule posted that there are to be NO loaded firearms in the ready room.This rule was put in effect after the ND incident, following the investigation & discussion by club members as to how best prevent a similar incident. I am sure your incident will be addressed with the same seriousness.
I personally speak with anyone I see exhibiting unsafe gun handling behaviour, as soon as it is observed. If met with attitude, I also inform the office staff of the incident. It is not a rare occurrence to see a behaviour exhibited that is worthy of comment...usually something like someone handling a gun while someone is downrange changing a target.
Most are embarrassed and thankful of a verbal prompt of why their behaviour is being addressed.

You made a decision that is right for you, in choosing to stop participating @ the club.You've reported and followed up on the incident. To criticise the entire club for the behaviour of 2 people is unfair. The club will not ignore or pretend the incident didn't happen..

In a sense, It'd sorta be like me making a decision to never go into your store because I observed a customer you handed a pistol to, sweeping other customers in the store, & complaining that you didn't correct them about their behavior :yikes: Joepistol..:pistols:

[Dabears!]

i wasnt talking bad about the whole club, i was talking to that one guy joe, i have said over and over that there are a TON of great people there.

edit, joe i see where you were talking about and i did say that, i am sorry but when my letter went unanswered it showed a lack of concern to me that is all.

[yocan]

gene had a similar incident the first time he used their rifle range. he went down range on a cease fire and someone was playing with their rifle while he walked back point towards him.
MCSC had that happen a little while ago. No apologies nothing person is banned from the property never allowed to return. This wasn't pointing at him but about 6 lanes over at the target.

Permenant ban no questions asked, pull up video. see video, ban. Hope you find a good one where you are.

[yocan]

EDIT:Just relized huntime is not the official spokesman here.... so take this with a grain of salt about the club but my feelings aren't changed. I'm going to wait a year and watch reviews before making a end of time judgement on the club, but don't feel dabears is out of line. But as it stands, I won't set foot there regardless of whats happening for a year, and the mentality change would have to cataclysmic to get me to ever show up. @the president you not only have to IMO change your behaviors, you have to make it apparent that you have or I feel a lot of people will never ever be willing to go to your club, and I don't blame them

@Huntime.


About the 15 year old is a kid.

THEN WHY ARE YOU LETTING THEM RUN A RANGE

If you said that to me when I was 15 my whole family would have dropped their membership in a heartbeat. now if you were saying can't leave me alone with the gun. I'd be offended but ok. But if you were to excuse someone after they have been taught for pointing a gun at someone for being a kid, then they shouldn't be allowed on the range because they are a dangerous kid.

I teach firearms safety, this thread is truly apalling from start to finish of your club, I have no interest in attending, ever. Shotgun shells kill (skeet stuff much more likely scar, wound and blind) regardless of the age of the trigger puller.

I've been shooting since I was 7. I have been outside of arms distance control since I was 9. I have broken the gun safety rules a few times, I'll admit it. NO ONE EVER LET IT SLIDE. I got yelled at and my gun taken for climbing over a fence with a loaded gun. (So perhaps over the top safety rules, but with youngsters better safe than sorry) I chased a pig, tripped fell gun fired... got the gun taken for a few weeks. I wasn't diligently using the safety and made a fist when I hit the ground, most fortunate my dad or I didn't take a .22

I own up to my misstakes. This is ridiculous.:yikes:

Maybe you need a page from a realistic teacher: Take the kids to a hospital, look at people that are hurt. Spend some time in a retirement home to see that we are mortal. Maybe even volunteer there, do a good thing while it permeates their subconcious. Take a stop look at a dead deer on the side of the road, go pet it, try to help it up. Let it fall. Let them get a brief glimpse of death. I would do that before letting a kid shoot unsupervised or drive a car. This girl obviously needs a reality check.

I've never let it slide someone pointing a gun at me. Whether they are 55, twice my age, multi phds and been carrying for a decade. Or at my class. (granted I"m real easy about it in the CPL class during the dry fire portion)

[SlayerXJ]

I have not been a part of a club, so this may be obvious...

If you were not a member, how did you get in?
They don't have some kind of gate to check id?

They may want to address security as well as safety.

[donald150]

I have not been a part of a club, so this may be obvious...

If you were not a member, how did you get in?
They don't have some kind of gate to check id?

They may want to address security as well as safety.

Non-Members can access the shotgun range during certain hours. I believe they use the guy working the desk as your "sponsor".


Non-Members can access other areas with a member.

[skidooboy]

Non-Members can access the shotgun range during certain hours. I believe they use the guy working the desk as your "sponsor".


Non-Members can access other areas with a member.


also, they have certain days/nights where the public is allowed to come shoot with the memebers, to "try the club out". the fees are different to shoot skeet, trap, or sporting clays for non members but, you can shoot at the club not being a member. Ski

[cgswss]

I first stated shooting at OCSC in the '60s. Back then, there were towers all the way out into the race track. We used to even keep one fields set up for international skeet. Over that time, from time to time I have had a few guns pointed at me by accident. It is normally another shooter and the score keeper normally corrects that person, and if not, I will.

Had I have something like you describe happen to me, as soon as she made the smart ass comment, I would have taken the gun and marched her into the clubhouse and had the discussion inside right then and there.

I should note that I have had bad experiences from time to time just about everywhere- even at Detroit Gun Club. I think it is very bad that this happened, but I have a hard time blaming the club for this young person.

The last time I was there, I was doing a target change when someone walked in and started screwing with their gun. I didn't have to say a word as he was quickly corrected by another shooter and we didn't have any problems from then on.

One time when shoot steel at Lapeer, The guy next to me let his un loaded and locked open pistol point in my direction. Lapeer is one of the most safe pistol ranges I have ever shot at, but it still happened. He was corrected by the time time keeper and there was no repeat of the problem.

I'm most sorry because I know that OCSC is so close to the shop and I'm sure its a great place for you to go.

At any rate, I'll still go to OCSC and if I ever see one of the score keepers do anything like what you describe- even if it isn't directed at me, I will take that person inside the club house and discuss the problem with the others working there at the time. I'm not an officer of the club- just an old fat guy that enjoys using what they offer.

[ohrings]

Kris,
I have been a member of the Oakland County Sportsmans Club for a year now. I am also a member (since 1993) of Multilakes and was a member (1965-1994) of Wayne County Conservation Association. I have personally witnessed actions are on the same scale as yours, several worse. What happened there is not excusable. I want to commend you for playing it safe by unloading the shotgun prior to handing it to the trap girl. Every club that I have been a member at do employ trap girls and boys unless fully automated. Most of them are in there teens. I am an owner of a fast food establishment that also employs young girls and young men. I and there on a daily basis, and on occasions see them making irrational (stupid) mistakes. Of course yours was on a scale more severe that at my business. I do have a full time manager that is capable of handling complaints. The two clubs that I am now a member of make a great place for a first job and I commend them for getting out there and earning a few dollars. That being said, I also know that clubs use volunteers who work hours at the club either to reduce their annual dues or just put in their time for the club.

If this would have happened to me I would have contacted one of the officers or board members of the club immediately or at the beginning of the week when the main office is open. I have been to just about every firearms store in the state and can tell you that if I would have had an incident in your store, I would have gone to the (owner) source first, rather than condeming this club. Now that everyone has piped in on what club you should go to, or what club they don't want you to go to, this has hurt the reputation of several clubs. In the past year I had a bad experience at a firearms store in the in the Oakland County area. I walked out. But, after cooling off for a month or so, I went back and my experience this time was positive.

I would hope that you will give Oakland County Sportmans Club another chance. Everyone there that I have met at the shotgun range, outside range and indoor pistol have been very helpful and courtious to me. Being a member of that club, I believe that every member shares your feelings about this breech of safety. Last months monthly mailing from the club did address incidents and the need to complete the form that was within the newsletter. This club and every club is very concerned of everyones safety. None of (members, paid employees, volunteers) us want to have to experience an accident where somone is hurt.

I would seriously suggest you do have a meeting with the elected officers of the club. I know you have suggustions to make the club better. I don't think I would want to work at a firearms store and have empty firearms point at me either, even though I know they are unloaded. And I bet, most of the people doing it are adults that should know better. Right now our country is going through a tremendous turmoil over gun rights.

Let's all play safe and shoot safe!

[Dabears!]

Kris,
I have been a member of the Oakland County Sportsmans Club for a year now. I am also a member (since 1993) of Multilakes and was a member (1965-1994) of Wayne County Conservation Association. I have personally witnessed actions are on the same scale as yours, several worse. What happened there is not excusable. I want to commend you for playing it safe by unloading the shotgun prior to handing it to the trap girl. Every club that I have been a member at do employ trap girls and boys unless fully automated. Most of them are in there teens. I am an owner of a fast food establishment that also employs young girls and young men. I and there on a daily basis, and on occasions see them making irrational (stupid) mistakes. Of course yours was on a scale more severe that at my business. I do have a full time manager that is capable of handling complaints. The two clubs that I am now a member of make a great place for a first job and I commend them for getting out there and earning a few dollars. That being said, I also know that clubs use volunteers who work hours at the club either to reduce their annual dues or just put in their time for the club.

If this would have happened to me I would have contacted one of the officers or board members of the club immediately or at the beginning of the week when the main office is open. I have been to just about every firearms store in the state and can tell you that if I would have had an incident in your store, I would have gone to the (owner) source first, rather than condeming this club. Now that everyone has piped in on what club you should go to, or what club they don't want you to go to, this has hurt the reputation of several clubs. In the past year I had a bad experience at a firearms store in the in the Oakland County area. I walked out. But, after cooling off for a month or so, I went back and my experience this time was positive.

I would hope that you will give Oakland County Sportmans Club another chance. Everyone there that I have met at the shotgun range, outside range and indoor pistol have been very helpful and courtious to me. Being a member of that club, I believe that every member shares your feelings about this breech of safety. Last months monthly mailing from the club did address incidents and the need to complete the form that was within the newsletter. This club and every club is very concerned of everyones safety. None of (members, paid employees, volunteers) us want to have to experience an accident where somone is hurt.

I would seriously suggest you do have a meeting with the elected officers of the club. I know you have suggustions to make the club better. I don't think I would want to work at a firearms store and have empty firearms point at me either, even though I know they are unloaded. And I bet, most of the people doing it are adults that should know better. Right now our country is going through a tremendous turmoil over gun rights.

Let's all play safe and shoot safe!
i already have spoken with the president ohrings.
waiting to hear back.
and unfortunately my mind is made up, a gun was pointed at my girlfriend and i was given attitude for commenting on it, i understand the man is working his dues off but they still represent the club and need to understand proper firearms safety.

if you came into our store and i pointed a gun at you, when you asked me to not do it and i could have cared less, so you spoke to the person in charge at the time and then they treated you as if you were wasting their time for wanting to be in a safe environment, you would not come back would you?

ill say i now, i wouldn't.

thanks for your thoughts and thank you for your offer sir, but i will politely decline.

[ohrings]

Kris,

Out of curiosity, why do you have US Senator (L) below your name?

Ohrings

[Dabears!]

Kris,

Out of curiosity, why do you have US Senator (L) below your name?

Ohrings
long story, its a lil inside joke about people who are caught and exposed as lying about being military members and being allowed to be here.
there is someone else who is a supreme court justice.

[METL]

Ahem.... CHIEF justice mind you... :twak:


Not to mention that people can lie about being native american and reap the benefits of that... why can't we lie let everyone know about who we are?

[white1200c]

Truth be told, If I personally cleared a weapon and handed it to someone else, I would fear it no more than a lead pipe. Safety first ALWAYS!. But there are so many tahat wish to stir panic about, things thaty they have control over. If yoyu were in fear that your gun was loaded, why would you hand it to someone else ?. And if if you were sure it was unloaded. Why would you post this? To many folks looking to make, much out of their own doings.

[Dabears!]

Truth be told, If I personally cleared a weapon and handed it to someone else, I would fear it no more than a lead pipe. Safety first ALWAYS!. But there are so many tahat wish to stir panic about, things thaty they have control over. If yoyu were in fear that your gun was loaded, why would you hand it to someone else ?. And if if you were sure it was unloaded. Why would you post this? To many folks looking to make, much out of their own doings.



I am not even sure how to respond to this politely since this is clearly a blatant attack at me for even posting, you gave me zero respect so i will do my best to give you at least a little bit and hold back what i am really thinking.

first, how dare you imply any of that you ignorant unsafe knucklehead.
second, guns are ALWAYS loaded, see point one.
third, i do not want to stir panic, see point one.
fourth, i was 100% positive it was unloaded, see point one and two.
fifth, I was not in fear that it was loaded, again see points one and two.
sixth, i posted this because of the incident that happened while a person
who was physically operating a shooting range was not educated and did not care nor the did supervisor(at the time of the incident) that she had broken at least 3 of the most basic gun safety rules, see points one and two again.
final, you do not need to utter the words safety first ever again you have proven that gun safety means BUNK to you if you are ok with them being pointed at you.


Its not about fear, its about principle and being safe with firearms.
you say safety first ALWAYS, yet your post shows that i would not even want to be in the same county as you if you had a loaded gun.
im not trying to make much out of my own doings at all sir, if being at a range and wanting people to not point guns at your loved ones is trying to make to much then im not sure what the hell to think.

[tyler.frost92]

You said it more politely than I would have.

[Jackam]

Truth be told, If I personally cleared a weapon and handed it to someone else, I would fear it no more than a lead pipe.
I agree and commend you for taking on the oncoming shipstorm that your post has evoked.

However, what was missed here is an opportunity. I fully understand the OPs position and the employee was as wrong as can be. What would have been better, instead of a big blow up, would have been a heart to heart on gun safety. Right there and then.

Instead of screaming and getting all excited, a "Hey, you're a young adult and there's something you need to know" might have turned this into an amicable learning opportunity. Instead she went into a defensive mode to ward off the attack.
"But The Gun Is Unloaded" Yes ma'am but it is very important to treat every gun as if it were loaded. EVERY GUN. That way, if you should ever "slip" and forget that you are handling a loaded gun, you are still safe. We never point a gun, loaded or not, at something we don't intend on destroying.

One last thing that I noticed - the OPs GF should have been diving for cover at the FIRST sweep. She needs to know that she is responsible for her own safety around guns. You will not always be there to watch out for her.

[white1200c]

I agree and commend you for taking on the oncoming shipstorm that your post has evoked.

However, what was missed here is an opportunity. I fully understand the OPs position and the employee was as wrong as can be. What would have been better, instead of a big blow up, would have been a heart to heart on gun safety. Right there and then.

Instead of screaming and getting all excited, a "Hey, you're a young adult and there's something you need to know" might have turned this into an amicable learning opportunity. Instead she went into a defensive mode to ward off the attack.
"But The Gun Is Unloaded" Yes ma'am but it is very important to treat every gun as if it were loaded. EVERY GUN. That way, if you should ever "slip" and forget that you are handling a loaded gun, you are still safe. We never point a gun, loaded or not, at something we don't intend on destroying.

One last thing that I noticed - the OPs GF should have been diving for cover at the FIRST sweep. She needs to know that she is responsible for her own safety around guns. You will not always be there to watch out for her.
Agreed, you said it better and more thoroughly than I did.

[joepistol]

Gee, glad you kept some of it to yourself Kris..:poke:

[Dabears!]

I agree and commend you for taking on the oncoming shipstorm that your post has evoked.

However, what was missed here is an opportunity. I fully understand the OPs position and the employee was as wrong as can be. What would have been better, instead of a big blow up, would have been a heart to heart on gun safety. Right there and then.

Instead of screaming and getting all excited, a "Hey, you're a young adult and there's something you need to know" might have turned this into an amicable learning opportunity. Instead she went into a defensive mode to ward off the attack.
"But The Gun Is Unloaded" Yes ma'am but it is very important to treat every gun as if it were loaded. EVERY GUN. That way, if you should ever "slip" and forget that you are handling a loaded gun, you are still safe. We never point a gun, loaded or not, at something we don't intend on destroying.

One last thing that I noticed - the OPs GF should have been diving for cover at the FIRST sweep. She needs to know that she is responsible for her own safety around guns. You will not always be there to watch out for her.


jackam I did not scream I raised my voice a little yes but did not scream. thats what yhe first post said. I told her everygun is loaded and she didn't care heart to heart over.

and Ashley noticed the gun pointing at her but like I said this all happened very fast Iby the time it happened first through last it had to only be around 5-6 seconds.
i do agree she needs to know to move and she does now we have talked about it. since then.
thanks though sir.

[RSF]

Once you get complacent with a quote unloaded gun you will do it with a loaded gun.

[Dabears!]

Once you get complacent with a quote unloaded gun you will do it with a loaded gun.
THIS,
there are no breaks in gun safety it either is safely handled or it is not.
thank you, steve, Thank you.

[Terry - OCSC]

Kris, (and to those following these threads)


My apologies for not replying to this thread sooner. Immediately after our conversation, I met with the Directors of our shotgun club.

In addition, early in January, I have met with OCSC Board of Directors and the Executive Board on this matter. In every case it was critical that we all adhere to firearms safety and the well being of our members and guests.

Actions that were taken.

To be specific. All pullers at the OCSC Shotgun club have been retrained (note: all pullers are required to have safety courses prior to being a puller). There is no reason or exuse for that situation happening. As far as the desk workers, All have been retrained and have been reminded that all concerns brought to the attention of a representative should be addressed in a serious manner and a report must be filed. This is not a new procedure.

To be honest Kris, I have not receive any letter from you. I was notifed that this thread started up again with the statement that a letter was sent on 12.17. I receive mail from the club office regularly and view our emails daily. No letter made it to me or the club.

When we spoke earlier, I know that we thought it was necessary for a letter, so that I can represent your experiences to the Respective Boards. However, the message I sent was clear. Not only to the Shotgun club, but every sub club under OCSC. Safety is Safety, Firearms or not. OCSC has and will keep Safety top priority.

I know there were a lot of opinions and thoughts brought forth in this thread. Those that responded in a serious fashion, I thank you. Those that took it to levels not pertinent to the situation, I hope no one has been offended.

In parting, Kris if you want to represent your situation personally to the Board, please contact me directly and I will provide you with that audience.

Thank you for your time.

Terry
OCSC President

[Dabears!]

this is what i was waiting for.

Thank you terry, im dumbfounded by the letter not getting there but none the less it said basically what was said in here with a few other things i found important to say.

Thank you sir again for taking this matter seriously and caring about it, it says many things about you.

your ex shotgun club president who posted in here left a very sour taste in my mouth and i was hoping to hear from you again.

safety is what is important, especially with firearms, and you understand this.
I could tell that from the way that you spoke, this was something you were genuinely concerned about and that made me feel a bit better about the situation, given the treatment received at the club.

Safety is EVERYONE responsibility, those of you who came in here trolling/instigating need to understand this.

I have edited the title and perhaps in the future i will return to your club to shoot at.
I still, very much so, look forward to the fish fries this summer and the Swap meets!
Thank you again Terry

Kris

I think it is best to end on this.

The NRA rules are good but I like Jeff Coopers rules since the first one could prevent almost any firearms related accident if followed properly.



1 All guns are always loaded.
2 Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3 Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4 Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
-Jeff Cooper

[shore007]

The response from Terry sounds very sincere as he describes the actions he has taken with the club. Creating new policies and reinforcing exisiting policies to ensure Safety is number 1 for all members and non members is exactly what you had asked/hoped for.

As Terry requested, resend your original letter via snail mail or e-mail so he can file it with this issue for future reference.

I see the next step would be to return to the club and experience the new policies in action.

--------> well done OCSC <--------