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View Full Version : Suppressed weapons for HD to help prevent hearing loss?



joelansing
12-23-2012, 08:55 PM
My normal standbys of #3 or #4 buck, Hi-cap 9MM, or maybe 223 are loud! One shot indoors and your alarm is ringing for a long time. Several shots would cause permenent damage for sure. Are there good suppressed options using sub-sonic ammo? Maybe something like a slow 147gr 9MM in a Hi-Point carbine?
Maybe even just a subsonic 00-Buck with no suppressor?
- Joe

sonicmatter
12-23-2012, 09:27 PM
Are there good suppressed options using sub-sonic ammo?
Definitely.

noob5,000,000
12-23-2012, 10:16 PM
I think a great HD weapon would be a suppressed .300 blackout AR, with a short (10-12") barrel. If only SBRs were allowed. :(

Alikurnis
01-29-2013, 03:51 AM
The HD weapons are very nice and it will definitely prevent from hearing loss.

Slugg
04-14-2013, 04:19 AM
I'd happily choose to be deaf over death any day. With all the guys I see who didn't wear earpro in iraq, I don't worry as much as I used to.

You could always buy those electronic earpro that kick on when a sound over a certain decibel is present. That way you can hear what your doing and still hear after ward.

AM1958
04-14-2013, 02:28 PM
Your ears are far more resilient than you think. Unless you are in an HD situation almost daily with multiple rounds fired your hearing won't suffer a whit.

DP425
04-14-2013, 02:42 PM
Don't worry too much about it. Auditory Exclusion kicks in and you won't be ringing at all. Doesn't mean damage cannot happen, but you are biologically programed to mute your hearing when the adrenaline starts flowing and you move into self preservation mode.

joelansing
04-14-2013, 11:20 PM
I damaged my hearing shooting a 22 revolver outside 35 years ago. We were on a sandstone beach with a sandstone wall behind us. After 6-10 shots my ears rang for a week, and the left one has never been the same.

- Joe

icelandismine
04-15-2013, 12:54 PM
The chances of needing to discharge the firearm inside are remote enough that I wouldn't worry about going through the cost and pain of getting a suppressor just to guard against hearing damage in a limited, rare situation.


If you're just looking for an excuse to get a suppressor though, then yes, it's a great idea. :)

Budget
04-15-2013, 01:36 PM
My biggest concern would be court. If I had to defend myself with lethal force with an NFA item, I would be worried the prosecution could use it against you. For instance, "he used a silencer to (attempt to) murder my client." A good shoot is still a good shoot, but they will throw anything at you. I believe a guy was convicted in AZ for using 10mm? That is probably internet legend but I wouldn't put it past prosecution or jury.

Maybe someone smarter than me could chime in.

Revdrshad
04-16-2013, 11:49 PM
"Hearing protection" is the reason we "Need" them...

Skidog
04-17-2013, 12:16 AM
I think a great HD weapon would be a suppressed .300 blackout AR, with a short (10-12") barrel. If only SBRs were allowed. :(
That's why I built an AR pistol in 300 Blk with a 9" barrel. I still need to outfit it with a light and laser. I did go with the 51-T flash hider from AAC. It has the coarse threads for their suppressors.

DP425
04-17-2013, 06:10 AM
My biggest concern would be court. If I had to defend myself with lethal force with an NFA item, I would be worried the prosecution could use it against you. For instance, "he used a silencer to (attempt to) murder my client." A good shoot is still a good shoot, but they will throw anything at you. I believe a guy was convicted in AZ for using 10mm? That is probably internet legend but I wouldn't put it past prosecution or jury.

Maybe someone smarter than me could chime in.


No one has ever been able to come up with any case that a suppressor was used against a good shoot successfully.

There is only one known story where the it was attempted to put the use of a machine gun in self defense into bad light.

This is much like the handload BS... someone postulates that it MAY be used against you and all of a sudden it becomes fact... despite all evidence to the contrary.

GarrettJ
04-17-2013, 06:12 PM
That's why I built an AR pistol in 300 Blk with a 9" barrel. I still need to outfit it with a light and laser. I did go with the 51-T flash hider from AAC. It has the coarse threads for their suppressors.
And what ammo would you use in it?

There are not a lot of options for .30 caliber bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities, and even fewer that will feed in a semi-auto. And I am not aware of any of them being loaded commercially.

I'd be more worried about over-penetration with this cartridge than I would with any of the pistol-caliber rounds. 220 gr. or 240 gr. SMKs may tumble (or not). And even if they do, will they continue on through the bad guy?

Revdrshad
04-17-2013, 06:19 PM
And what ammo would you use in it?

There are not a lot of options for .30 caliber bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities, and even fewer that will feed in a semi-auto. And I am not aware of any of them being loaded commercially.

I'd be more worried about over-penetration with this cartridge than I would with any of the pistol-caliber rounds. 220 gr. or 240 gr. SMKs may tumble (or not). And even if they do, will they continue on through the bad guy?

The .300 Whisper/Blackout Specs aren't that spectacular... I've always saw it more as a novelty round... IMHO.

riptide
04-22-2013, 12:33 AM
I want noise in a home defense situation. I want the neighbors to hear, and contact law enforcement. If there are other intruders in the home other than the one I just lit up, I want them to hear it. If they haul ass before a confrontation is made, that is fine with me.... first priority is protecting the family.

Budget
04-22-2013, 02:04 AM
http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html

http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident

I found these looking for NFA court cases. It would seem if NFA holds any legal weight, it would only be in civil court.

sevenx57
04-24-2013, 12:17 AM
My understanding of, what we call, hearing loss is it occurs over time. Short term exposure to loud noises is not likely to result in long term damage. Consider, we do not typically wear hearing protection when we are hunting.
Shooting hundreds of rounds at the range over the course of years, is long term. A hand full of rounds is not long term.
I believe some training without hearing protection is a good idea, if only a few rounds, and even in an enclosed space, if possible. You do not want to be surprised by the niose, if the first time you hear it is when it counts.

Oh, and I almost forgot to add, I did see a guy shooting a supressed .22 a little while ago. it was really quiet, and he was double tapping index cards. Spooky.

Revdrshad
04-28-2013, 01:12 AM
My understanding of, what we call, hearing loss is it occurs over time. Short term exposure to loud noises is not likely to result in long term damage. Consider, we do not typically wear hearing protection when we are hunting.
Shooting hundreds of rounds at the range over the course of years, is long term. A hand full of rounds is not long term.
I believe some training without hearing protection is a good idea, if only a few rounds, and even in an enclosed space, if possible. You do not want to be surprised by the niose, if the first time you hear it is when it counts.

Oh, and I almost forgot to add, I did see a guy shooting a supressed .22 a little while ago. it was really quiet, and he was double tapping index cards. Spooky.

Hearing loss is culmulative, yes. But, in a situation where you want all of your senses as intact as possible you don't want 150+ decibels making your ears ring or causing disorientation.
(And yes, the human body does have some automatic responses to such loud noises)

I want to be able to listen for other intruders and Kids and spouse if applicable. I want to hear the 911 operator, etc...

MetalKing
04-28-2013, 01:34 AM
It makes me wonder about cops. They must be trained to shoot without hearing protection because they dont have hearing problems and its not like they can say wait a minute mr criminal, dont shoot until I put my plugs in lol. I wonder how many rounds they have to listen to up close without plugs to become a certified leo.

DP425
04-28-2013, 02:00 AM
It makes me wonder about cops. They must be trained to shoot without hearing protection because they dont have hearing problems and its not like they can say wait a minute mr criminal, dont shoot until I put my plugs in lol. I wonder how many rounds they have to listen to up close without plugs to become a certified leo.


Um... None?

Revdrshad
04-28-2013, 03:06 AM
There does exist different ear plug type devices that can help with this. Things like Surefire's "Sonic Defenders" cut down noise to the threshold of pain. But, Still let you hear conversation.
There's some other electric devices that Swat cops, and patrol cops can use.

Mark.n.chip
04-28-2013, 04:51 PM
They are pricey as hell but Pro Ears are the best muffs out there. I even listen to my IPhone while doing chores like grass cutting or snow blowing.

Revdrshad
04-28-2013, 09:05 PM
I think the Sonic defenders are around $12.

But the electric ones can run anywhere from $30-$400...

Tedfs
04-29-2013, 02:10 AM
Permanent hearing loss can occur at any time you are exposed to loud sound.
Auditory exclusion doesn't kick in for everyone and relying on it is foolish.

Suppressed is a good way to go but having something, anything at all, to help cut the affect of pressure waves along with suppression is better. Electronic ear pro to place by the bed stand can be had for cheap and batteries replaced once a year is easy maintenance.

Death and hearing loss are both permanent. I choose neither and make sure some form of hearing protection, be it ear plugs or electronic muffs are present in every room of my house.

DP425
04-29-2013, 10:10 PM
I'll take my chances with hearing rather than fumble with ear pro. I've been around plenty of shooting without and my hearing isn't suffering too much. Not even enough for the military to consider me to have any hearing loss at all. Of course, that isn't range shooting- only an idiot would spend a day at the range without ear pro... No benefit to be had.

RayMich
04-29-2013, 11:27 PM
My solution is less expensive and less controversial...

I keep a pair of Peltor Tactical PRO Electronic Earmuffs next to my pistol on the nightstand. Not only do they protect your hearing from the loud gunshot, but they also enhance your hearing while you are listening for things that go bump in the night.

I even use the electronic earmuffs while deer hunting with excellent results.

RayMich
04-29-2013, 11:33 PM
There does exist different ear plug type devices that can help with this. Things like Surefire's "Sonic Defenders" cut down noise to the threshold of pain. But, Still let you hear conversation.
There's some other electric devices that Swat cops, and patrol cops can use.
I have a couple of set of the Surefire Sonic Defenders and I can tell you that they DO NOT work as advertised. The opening that is supposed to allow normal conversation through closes right up when you insert them in your ear and the performance is no different that a regular pair ear plugs except they are more expensive.

mini4m3
05-01-2013, 06:29 PM
I have a couple of set of the Surefire Sonic Defenders and I can tell you that they DO NOT work as advertised. The opening that is supposed to allow normal conversation through closes right up when you insert them in your ear and the performance is no different that a regular pair ear plugs except they are more expensive.

I beg to differ. I've had nothing but good luck with the Surefire series.

Clearly user error on your end.

Revdrshad
05-04-2013, 03:20 AM
I have a couple of set of the Surefire Sonic Defenders and I can tell you that they DO NOT work as advertised. The opening that is supposed to allow normal conversation through closes right up when you insert them in your ear and the performance is no different that a regular pair ear plugs except they are more expensive.

They do come in different sizes. Maybe a different size would work better for you. (If you like the concept, it might be worth trying again.)

:cheers:

Corpsie
05-09-2013, 02:26 PM
My normal standbys of #3 or #4 buck, Hi-cap 9MM, or maybe 223 are loud! One shot indoors and your alarm is ringing for a long time. Several shots would cause permenent damage for sure. Are there good suppressed options using sub-sonic ammo? Maybe something like a slow 147gr 9MM in a Hi-Point carbine?
Maybe even just a subsonic 00-Buck with no suppressor?
- Joe

Are you going to be able to compensate for the extra length and weight a suppressor adds? How about the fact that it is a nice place to grab on to disarm a person? Etc.

I shot a full magazine of 40 S&W from a Glock without hearing protection about 12 years ago and my hearing has remained the same according to hearing tests.

I would worry more about muscle memory, instinctive shooting, and having the correct personal protection ammo ready to go.

Top
05-09-2013, 11:33 PM
With all the guys I see who didn't wear earpro in iraq, I don't worry as much as I used to.

You could always buy those electronic earpro that kick on when a sound over a certain decibel is present. .


These don't help with the issue. I never had ear pro in iraq and now have a great set of hearing aids. To be honest though I was a ground guy for 20 years so it was more than the war, however gunfights outside are loud, a few shots inside is insane.

On the ear muffs the problem is that I share a home with four others, I don't want them to lose hearing at all because when it's gone it's gone.

globalsmack
05-14-2013, 08:04 AM
My biggest concern would be court. If I had to defend myself with lethal force with an NFA item, I would be worried the prosecution could use it against you. For instance, "he used a silencer to (attempt to) murder my client." A good shoot is still a good shoot, but they will throw anything at you. I believe a guy was convicted in AZ for using 10mm? That is probably internet legend but I wouldn't put it past prosecution or jury.

Maybe someone smarter than me could chime in.

He used a silencer vs he used a gun. I dont really see the difference.