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View Full Version : Trainers: How do you solicit business?



KayL
07-26-2007, 02:59 PM
How do you solicit students for your training classes?

Please vote above.

I added another choice of "Other." You can post a reply below with your answer.

franky1
09-06-2007, 10:30 PM
i get a tables at gun shows, outdoor events, and alot networking. the high end classes we just solicit the department we want to help. :sniper2:

glockman55
09-19-2007, 08:53 AM
My Dad is a Training Instructor and for the past 10 years or so he has never had a problem with enrollment to his classes. Just word of mouth. He is as busy as he wants to be. Years back he raised his prices some to slow down a little. He was doing a class every week. Now about two a month. 15 to 20 students per class, 14 hour class. I'm sure some here have taken his classes..The Weaponry Shop.

detroitpua
09-24-2007, 02:22 PM
I have recently put testimonials into my promotional materials advertising my classes. It has been brought to my attention that this could be a bad idea. What do you think?

Maybe this should be in a separate thread. If so, mods please move it.

Regards,

fbuckner
09-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Why would this be a bad idea? Some folks have been doing this for years Idont see an issue with it.

detroitpua
09-24-2007, 04:00 PM
Someone told me that it was bad because my clients, who graced me with their testimonials, might be "messed with" by people who don't like people exercising their 2A rights.

I disagree but wanted to hear what others thought.

Regards,

fbuckner
09-24-2007, 04:15 PM
dont use last names.

detroitpua
09-24-2007, 04:57 PM
Are testimonials without last names credible? I am not sure. What do you or others believe?

Maybe testimonials shouldn't be used at all?

If they aren't perceived as real, maybe it sheds even more doubt about a particular firearms training provider?

For the record, I sent a release to all who provided a testimonial. However, if the community here think it is truly a liability for my customers, I will edit/reconsider the way I use testimonials.

I am eager for feedback.

Regards,

fbuckner
09-24-2007, 05:35 PM
If someone wants to check my student testemonials my students who gave them also gave permission for prospective students to call. I wont just give the names out to anyone there are a few trouble makers in this community also

RSF
09-24-2007, 07:12 PM
thats an understatment.

I have seen and know of those that have done such things.

fbuckner
09-24-2007, 09:50 PM
For instance I keep trying to straighten up the stuff at gander mountain in Novi. I was prewarned of some deeds another instructor does everytime I go down there my and 2 other instructors stuff is either gone or moved to a place no one can see. I try to play fair and keep all in line with each other but those Pol just dont stop.

RSF
09-24-2007, 09:54 PM
They have been doing that fo ryears to everybodies. I even caught them once.

fbuckner
09-24-2007, 10:19 PM
I always make sure they are inline I will be calling them real soon if they dont knock it off.

RSF
09-24-2007, 10:39 PM
LOL its been done all ready. they dont care.

antigunnut
09-25-2007, 08:00 AM
I guess it's time for me to go to gander mountain, and put some of my stuff up there. What do you think?

detroitpua
09-25-2007, 08:15 AM
If someone wants to check my student testemonials my students who gave them also gave permission for prospective students to call. I wont just give the names out to anyone there are a few trouble makers in this community also

What stops a "nut" from calling you, getting your customers' phone numbers from you, and then harassing your customers?

Regards,

RSF
09-25-2007, 08:43 AM
What stops anybody? nothing. and giving out customers numbers is a no no in my book.


have reviews that can be emailed or seen

UTPD#5
09-25-2007, 09:27 AM
IMHO a testimonial is a statement that person gives permission to another person to be printed.

I have never been called from any testimonial that I have given, and have given dozens of them around the country.

A person signing a model release or giving a testimonial does not indicate that they want to be contacted...it is simply giving the person requesting the release or testimonial permission to use a photograph or statement.

Maybe I am missing something in your question, if so please redirect.

As for the Gander Mountain crap...one word...CLAYMOR :cheers:

RSF
09-25-2007, 09:32 AM
the issue at gander too is the fact the counters get cleaned as well. and things get moved around too.

fbuckner
09-25-2007, 05:19 PM
Funny thing is about the gander thing is K/M stuff got moved in the past now my stuff is up there and both K/M and My stuff keeps getting back shelfed. I have also last month went in just after someone else just left and found My stuff and Karens stuff ina trash can right near the register. I replaced both of our stuff and I will give fair warning once next time I iwll ask for a meeting with all the instructors up there and put themon notice. Nobody has the market cornered nobody. Bottom line is the Pols better knockit off

RSF
09-25-2007, 08:05 PM
there have been snakes in the grass for years....

antigunnut
09-26-2007, 01:26 PM
You guys better watch out they are TC's They will come and audit your course.
It is not above them to send people into your class





Funny thing is about the gander thing is K/M stuff got moved in the past now my stuff is up there and both K/M and My stuff keeps getting back shelfed. I have also last month went in just after someone else just left and found My stuff and Karens stuff ina trash can right near the register. I replaced both of our stuff and I will give fair warning once next time I iwll ask for a meeting with all the instructors up there and put themon notice. Nobody has the market cornered nobody. Bottom line is the Pols better knockit off

fbuckner
09-26-2007, 01:44 PM
They can send away I think I had better training anyhow.

Trebor
09-27-2007, 02:16 PM
Funny thing is about the gander thing is K/M stuff got moved in the past now my stuff is up there and both K/M and My stuff keeps getting back shelfed. I have also last month went in just after someone else just left and found My stuff and Karens stuff ina trash can right near the register. I replaced both of our stuff and I will give fair warning once next time I iwll ask for a meeting with all the instructors up there and put themon notice. Nobody has the market cornered nobody. Bottom line is the Pols better knockit off

My stuff gets moved around/hidden too. Sometimes I'm sure it's those "other" instructors and sometimes the GM staff just cleans counters off and moves things around.

You do have to go in there fairly often and check out your stuff, add new cards, etc.

What's really hurting me is that the GM took down the white board where they list all the upcoming classes as part of some remodeling. They say their going to put it up somewhere else, but I've had a noticeable drop-off in calls since they first quit updating the board and then took it down completely.

If your advertising through the GM you may want to ask them about putting the board back up. I mention it everytime I'm in the store.

fbuckner
09-27-2007, 04:23 PM
I have Rob I have. I find it funny that if our stuff gets moved for cleaning how come only one instructors stuff gets put back up there. Its everytime not just an isolated occasion.

RSF
09-27-2007, 10:46 PM
they have trashed others stuff for along time......... its no secret.

the time i caugh tone of them they were moving simions stuff

fbuckner
09-28-2007, 01:05 AM
Has anyone confronted them about it? Or just tolerated it ?

RSF
09-28-2007, 10:03 AM
they were checked on it once or twice.................... since it wasnt my stuff i didnt go full throttle but i bet if all of you got together Swat Micpl KM etc.... and wrote a written letter to gander mtn i bet they would handle it as well.

fbuckner
09-28-2007, 12:16 PM
Down there again today and OUR stuff was behind their stuff. Now our stuff is in a nice neat line again. TKS TB

Fiddler
09-28-2007, 04:05 PM
Rick, thanks for looking out. I just came from there, and I was about to give you a heads up. I didn't see your stuff at all, but K&M, SWAT, and the other company were intact. That's the first time I've seen it happen that way. I think Steve has a good idea about complaining to Gander Mountain. When I have tried to check the people in question on their actions I was referred to their lawyer, which of course got me nowhere. If we complain to Gander Mountain collectively, maybe we'll get a response.

fbuckner
09-28-2007, 05:27 PM
I agree Karen we should this is rediculous and not needed. If that doesnt work I will have to ask the big dog to ask them to stop

San_Marco_Training
01-03-2008, 09:27 AM
Funny how no names are mentioned and we all know who we are talking about.
I used to teach the classes for them and they were always trying to get me to "get the dirt" on other instructors. Their idea of success starts with eliminating the competition. He wanted me to pay for a CCW class with another instructor, pretend I don't know a thing about guns, and take notes on how their class was run in hopes of finding something wrong. Here's the scoop on the TC thing with them. You're a good CCW student, so they talk to you after class about helping them on the range for future classes. That's cool! No pay, but still kinda fun. A couple months later, "hey, you need to be an instructor!!" Give us 300 bucks, and we'll make you an instructor. Uh, OK! Oh, by the way, here's this little agreement you have to sign. It says you won't solicit your own students for 2 years and only work for us. The new students just see it as another process (paper to sign) in becoming an instructor until later on. A couple of their new instructors have called me wanting to know what that really means. I told them I never signed it and now they're sorry they did. I don't know if it would hold up in any court, but that's just bad business to do that.
They advertise all these "credentials" like SigArms academy and things like that, Shooting with Ted Nugent, etc. on their ads, but when you show up to class, you get another instructor who may or may not know anything beyond the book. (If I'm paying a lot of money to see the Stones play, I don't want to show up and actually get a cover band playing their tunes!)
Walk into any range or gun store (except gander mtn Utica) and you can trade stories with the managers about this guy.
I'm a team player, but the "team" thing was really stressed in my TC workshop last May. The MTC said a few things to me that really pulled some of my ideas together. He said that we all (as instructors and TCs) work together and we'll see more success as a whole. I learned a lot that weekend and changed up my style over time. I've been doing what I can to help out the other instructors whenever I can, not only as my responsibility as a TC, but as a good person. I don't know how many instructors I have called to let them know their business cards were almost empty in their displays, or sat and traded ideas with, and even have had a couple come into my classes and teach a few parts to "learn the ropes" as new instructors.
Yes, this guy is a little bump in the road, but take it from me, he is NO WHERE near the status he planned when I was around. He figured he would be ruling the whole state by now. Not even close. He'll always be around moving displays, crying "no fair!" like a 9 yr. old to managers, trying to make up his "report" to give to the NRA to bust all of us..
So, here's the advice I gave him as parting words... "Don't waste your time trying to put out all these little fires (other instructors), just make yourself fireproof." Who cares what anyone else is doing, just be your best and the strong few will survive.
There I said it!~

fbuckner
01-03-2008, 10:53 AM
San Marco, It appears we are talking about the same duo of instructors. I used to work with another group also but I dont discredit them as they are good instructors whom I learned alot from and all i can do is try to build on that. I do adjust 2 other isnstructors displays at the gander mountian in Novi. When i see them buried behind stuff I move them to the front and remind the sales staff that we are bringing in potential buyers and they should insure the displays are kept tidy. I have all my students get their ammo from them. If they need a firearm i dont have they rent it from the range we use in the winter months. There is no reason it should be a take take senario I think if my stats are right only about 2-3% of the people have cpl permits and more wanting them every day. I would assume that what you say is true about them as My MTC is probably reading this right now. This could be a written statement used to deter that neg activity from them in the future. They are such gods of the training world they dont have the coutesy to even return a phone call from me.

Brian
01-03-2008, 12:02 PM
Maybe GM could be persuaded to put up boards with glass doors and locks so that instructors have to give their material to the store manager or sales person to put in the board for display. That way no one could mess with someone elses stuff and it would all be taken care of by the store. Just drop off your material and have them post it.

fbuckner
01-03-2008, 02:27 PM
that would be perfect but it still doesnt address the fact that some can not be adults

San_Marco_Training
01-05-2008, 01:18 AM
The GM stores might be ready to say "enough" and not let anyone advertise in there if it turns into a big drama thing. I've found plenty of success with doing my best and giving the people what they paid for. There's plenty of business to go around. This won't be my first time watching greed bring someone down in the end. It seems someone wasn't paying attention in TC class when they talked about being on the same team. Sure, I make a little money doing this, but some people have the priorities all out of whack and put that dollar way up front. Since the students only take this class once, they'll never have a reference point to know they are getting cheated by the greedy instructor who gets them in and out like a drive-thru.
Tonite, I just happened to be in the same building as our "little friend" of the topic at hand. He managed to prove to everyone within earshot that he's just bad news. He doesn't know when to just shut up.
But enough about that whole trainwreck... look at all the time we're wasting talking about this guy. I'm missing out on what Britney Spears is doing!! HA!

antigunnut
01-05-2008, 08:35 AM
I would agree that it is said that we all can't work together, but we can. It is also against NRA policy to remove another instructor's materials. That would be dishonest and we are all supposed to be honest. I would suggest that we ALL have a (including the two instructors you are talking about) meeting at GM. I would be happy to come and talk to everyone. If you guys would like to do that feel free to call and we can get it set up.
734 368 0135

antigunnut
01-05-2008, 08:39 AM
SAN Marco what MTC did your TC WORKSHOP?

fbuckner
01-05-2008, 08:40 AM
Ya got to get the 2 from that elite group to acknowledge any correspondence first.

antigunnut
01-05-2008, 08:46 AM
we could get GM to post the meeting and put on it that to teach there you must attend the meeting




Ya got to get the 2 from that elite group to acknowledge any correspondence first.

fbuckner
01-05-2008, 03:29 PM
The manager at gander said they wont get involved in sqaubles but would watch for any unethical behavior. If they were to catch anyone they would remove them from the calendar and they would not be back there teaching anything. I do agree it would be good to get everyone on the same page including the managment of anyplace that allows us the PRIVILAGE of teaching in their walls especially since it is free use of their place.

San_Marco_Training
01-31-2008, 10:09 AM
I was just at GM Taylor. Lots of new faces and a new design in the Firearms dept. I'll be visiting Novi GM today to say hello. 27 bucks for a box of 100 9mm Winchester. OUCH!!!
We've been running business mostly from word of mouth. It's cool when people call and say someone liked your class and recommended you. It's hard to compete with 56 other instructors' displays on countertops. Those are the students that want the shortest class for the cheapest price, and will call 5 people to shop around for that. I hated those classes. They were always full of people who seemed to have "something better to do" that day and were anxious to get home to watch the game or whatever.

Ricebrnr
02-06-2008, 01:37 PM
I was always curious why I didn't see the instuctors alluded to frequent this or the other MI sites but I guess now I know. You should all be very much commended for how you're handling this. It would've been very easy to trash talk and discourage any interested in training from their outfit but you have taken the high road.

You may have guessed that I do volunteer for this outfit at the range, but I have already come to my own conclusions about them. I will continue for a little while since I enjoy the new students and get to the range once a month. I will take the warnings here to heart though, and exhibit the same discretion as you all.

I don't go to the class portions so I'll not likely see the shenanigans mentioned at Gander Mountain, but will surely say something if I do.

Sincerely, good for you all, this is the kind of behavior I expect from the CPL community.

San_Marco_Training
02-06-2008, 09:16 PM
Be sure to call me before you sign the contract with them. And be sure to let us all know when they want you to sneak into others' classes and take notes on everything so they can have everyone's creds pulled.
And when you do pay all your money to be an instructor, and someone wants you to give them a class, you'll have to send your friend through the business and you'll still teach then in the class, but you'll get a whopping 10 bucks!

I used to be discreet about my problem with this group, but their antics lately have been pushing people a little too far. Business is business, but sometimes there is just unethical practices.

Every other instructor I meet is glad to help, or let me help when needed. I call instructors whose fliers are running short at the displays, answer questions for students from other classes, etc. - all from what I learned from other team players. Why does this community have to put up with someone who is simply going out of his way to be a big pain in the neck? Do they think we are just going to tire of him and pack up and leave?

Before I left that group, they were constantly trying to dig up dirt on all the other instructors to get them in trouble. I offered this advice - "Instead of trying to put out all these little fires, just make yourself fireproof."

I left and took my own advice. I've been out there trying to do my best and be as helpful as possible. Knowing that greed has brought all too many companies down, we pass on to others what we can.

Ricebrnr, I wish you the best of luck. Next time you see me at the range, come up and say hello.

I know those in question will soon be here to see what I write. I have nothing to hide. I can and will back anything I say. I'm not going to turn this into a trash talking session. I have a lot of phone calls to return. Seems we did a great job the past couple weeks and have a few referrals.

Wolverine is a great place to feel at home, kick back with a rootbeer, talk about guns and whatever. Oh yeah, we do tend to go out and shoot them once in a while!!

As for advertising, we have been getting a lot of traffic from various internet sources to our website. All out of nowhere... not sure why, but I'm not going to take my internet ads down now.

I am starting this book called Gift of Fear tonite, everyone tells me its a really good book on awareness. See ya!

Ricebrnr
02-06-2008, 09:52 PM
lol, I have no intention of signing anything else with them, since I'm not planning on making a career of this (yet?) I have no intention of putting money into training for no returns. I'd rather spend that money on more firearms. I'm strictly in it for fun right now. If it weren't for meeting new people and the range time, it wouldn't be worth the gas to go.

Whether or not they find this info or not they'll not get any of this from me, nor will I participate in anything against my principles. I'm here to make friends and just wanted all of you to know that.

BTW back to the subject at hand, my wife found their class by word of mouth and gave it to me for my birthday last year. I have not recommended them to anyone else if that says anything...

San_Marco_Training
02-06-2008, 09:56 PM
It is a fun thing to do... I've met a ton of people and some have become best friends.
I'm just waiting for the day someone drops the cash on a TV commercial. I bet FrontSight has an infomercial in the works already!! Ha!

detroitpua
02-07-2008, 12:23 PM
I am starting this book called Gift of Fear tonite, everyone tells me its a really good book on awareness. See ya!

Tim:

Overall the book is good, but the author does take some anti-gun positions which I can't support. Also, I believe he gives some solid advice on how to handle stalkers. In short, it's a good read but ignore the anti-gun stuff.

uno_eye
03-30-2009, 01:08 PM
I am helping my uncle promote and advertise his classes and we try to encourage couples to take them husband/wife and that has actually been goin over well.

macman37
07-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Just so you guys know, there's at least one of us (me) on the board who is a graphic designer... I design logos, flyers, ads, etc., so if you need that kind of thing shoot me an IM.