Question: 8 1/2 hour CPL Class?

[NickS]

Question, My CCW class took two days. 12+ hours. So did my two sons. How can a PD give this entire class in 8-1/2 hours and that includes lunch? Is this really possible or are they cutting corners? Something just doesn't seem right here. Am I being overly paranoid here? I have some friends who are going to be taking this class and between him and his wife it will cost $310. Ouch!

[San_Marco_Training]

Sounds like your class included a bonus addition of parts of "Basic Pistol" which is common. I think that's great that you got the extra stuff. I wish there were more students like you that would agree to come for 12 hours. Many call around and want to get in and out as fast and cheap as possible. It's good that there is at least an 8 hour minimum. People call all the time and would be willing to pay great money for a 1 hour certificate. I'm sure there would be enough instructors out there that would be willing to oblige for the almighty buck.

What I don't like are the classes that last more than 8 hours in one day. If the class is more than 8 hours total, I like to see it broken up a bit. I've taken them and I miss the last parts because I'm simply maxed out.
-tim

[fbuckner]

Police department may be teaching the MCOLES program. It is also recognized by the state and is signifigantly shorter. There is one outfit that has the bookwork done online and then they qualify with 20 rounds. I dont like the MCOLES because i still think even the NRA doesnt require enough range time for my liking

[detroitpua]

Police department may be teaching the MCOLES program. It is also recognized by the state and is signifigantly shorter. There is one outfit that has the bookwork done online and then they qualify with 20 rounds. I dont like the MCOLES because i still think even the NRA doesnt require enough range time for my liking

According to my personal sources, there are several cops "training" people for two hours at a cost of $150 in the Detroit area. Grrrrr....

Doesn't sound legal to me. If I had a anonymous tip-line (hint), I'd report at least guy whose name I keep hearing.

Regards,

[detroitpua]

Police department may be teaching the MCOLES program. It is also recognized by the state and is signifigantly shorter. There is one outfit that has the bookwork done online and then they qualify with 20 rounds. I dont like the MCOLES because i still think even the NRA doesnt require enough range time for my liking

For the sake of curiosity, do you or anyone else know the standards for a MCOLEs class for civilians desiring to get their CPL? I am curious about the agenda, course length (hours), and the shooting requirements. To be legal, IMHO, it should meets the state's legislative criteria.

Regards,

[UTPD#5]

I have not taken the time really look at the law yet...but...

MCOLES must approve a course before it can be accepted in Michigan and fill the requirement of the law. There can be MANY MCOLES approved courses for the CPL requirement, it would depend on what the instructor submits to MCOLES. MCOLES does have a basic requirement of 30 rounds I think.

The reason that most people use the NRA PPITH course is that it covers the legal portions as well as other decent information along with minimal range time. PPOTH still does not cover the legal portion, to the best of my knowledge.

If two police officers are doing the class in two hours, their course must be approved by MCOLES.

Does any of this help?

[Trebor]

If two police officers are doing the class in two hours, their course must be approved by MCOLES.

My understanding is that the class *must* meet the requirements in the statute as far as length, content, etc. Even if the class curriculum uses MCOLES as the "certifying agency" it would still have to be 8 hours, including 3 hours of range time, etc.

I can't see any way a 2 hour class would be legal, MCOLES or no MCOLES.

I am willing to be corrected if I'm wrong. (Not an attorney. Not legal advice. Yada, yada, yada)

[antigunnut]

you are right no question about that do you know there names or what county they teach in?




My understanding is that the class *must* meet the requirements in the statute as far as length, content, etc. Even if the class curriculum uses MCOLES as the "certifying agency" it would still have to be 8 hours, including 3 hours of range time, etc.

I can't see any way a 2 hour class would be legal, MCOLES or no MCOLES.

I am willing to be corrected if I'm wrong. (Not an attorney. Not legal advice. Yada, yada, yada)

[detroitpua]

you are right no question about that do you know there names or what county they teach in?

I keep hearing one name in particular. From what I hear, he's one of Detroit's finest. One lady told me at a place where I hang out from time to time that she was taking his class instead of mine. Her rationale was that she'd rather take it with him because it was only two hours long.

I told her that, IMHO, she and the instructor would be committing a felony and that he was doing her a disservice if she didn't receive proper legal and shooting instruction. My comments went in one ear and out the other.

Oh well,

[San_Marco_Training]

I could make a living off the people who call wanting a 2 hour class. Given the chance, I can usually talk them into taking a regular class. So many people think they already know everything there is about carrying and self defense on that level. I'm not so scared of the bad guys out there anymore..they kinda know what they're doing. I'm getting worried about the 2 hour class graduate who doesn't have a clue and makes hasty decisions and sprays bullets all over a parking lot. We've all been there, when the conversation turns to guns and some idiot sticks out like a sore thumb by talking about "blowin' away" the next guy who does this or that... yeah that guy!

[UTPD#5]

My understanding is that the class *must* meet the requirements in the statute as far as length, content, etc. Even if the class curriculum uses MCOLES as the "certifying agency" it would still have to be 8 hours, including 3 hours of range time, etc.

I can't see any way a 2 hour class would be legal, MCOLES or no MCOLES.

I am willing to be corrected if I'm wrong. (Not an attorney. Not legal advice. Yada, yada, yada)

You are correct, but, my point was if someone wants to have a different course structure it must be approved by MCOLES...so if the law says eight, then there is no way in H#$$ that MCOLES would approve it for Michigan instruction.

Is the two hour class a "factual" class, heck I'll sign up...you in Kerry?

[San_Marco_Training]

I wouldn't miss it for the world.

"Good Morning Class!!

It's mostly Common Sense, so DON'T DO STUPID STUFF!

Anyone ever shot a gun before??

OK You two, you're first.

The rest of you watch and just do as they do when it's your turn..

So, Who's everyone voting for??

Class dismissed."

...or something like that

[UTPD#5]

I wouldn't miss it for the world.

"Good Morning Class!!

It's mostly Common Sense, so DON'T DO STUPID STUFF!

Anyone ever shot a gun before??

OK You two, you're first.

The rest of you watch and just do as they do when it's your turn..

So, Who's everyone voting for??

Class dismissed."

...or something like that

You forgot lunch...that is the 60 minutes in between the 30 minute intro and the 30 minute exit.

[fbuckner]

some idiot sticks out like a sore thumb by talking about "blowin' away" the next guy who does this or that... yeah that guy![/QUOTE]


We had one of those man what a fruitcake. he was going to disembowel this guy and that guy karate chop that one and rip the others throat out. I took him aside and the others called his reference to make sure he was of sound mind. Since then no fruitcakes just one guy who after we were all done admited he was a felon.

[antigunnut]

i am in let me know when and where


You are correct, but, my point was if someone wants to have a different course structure it must be approved by MCOLES...so if the law says eight, then there is no way in H#$$ that MCOLES would approve it for Michigan instruction.

Is the two hour class a "factual" class, heck I'll sign up...you in Kerry?

[Trebor]

Since then no fruitcakes just one guy who after we were all done admited he was a felon.

I screened out one guy who admitted to a felony when we were discussing the procedure to apply over the phone before he actually signed up. He seemed to think that if he (somehow) got a CPL he could carry, even though he was still a felon. He seemed surprised that it didn't work that way.

I just had an even weirder one the other day. The guy said he needed to take a "gun safety class" because he was on probation and it was one of the conditions of his probation! He said he wasn't supposed to handle firearms and couldn't go to the range for any class.

I told him to have his PO give me a call. If he just needs Home Firearms Safety or something I'd see what I could do. I can teach that with no actual guns present (I think - I'll have to check on that now that I think about it...)

As far as putting him in a regular class, no way.

[fbuckner]

screening only works for honest people FELONS are NOT honest people. You can ask till you blue or PINK in the face all day and you wont get a STRAIGHT answer out of a felon unless they come out of the CLOSET

[San_Marco_Training]

Didn't ya know??? Felons always have a 'friend" call for them. Of course the friend isn't interested in taking a class, they are just calling on behalf of their "friend". When the first thing they ask is "what about the criminal record" you know the phone call is over. Also funny is how many people don't know if they were convicted and for what charge. Amazing. 22 years later, I still remember the charges... operating a motor vehicle without a license. I was 12 on my minibike riding to the trails at the end of the street. But I still know the details.
I got a good hollerin' at by the juvenile judge and released into my mom's wrath (custody)
These people call me and say they were charged with a domestic a year ago, but don't know if they were convicted... OK

[Trebor]

screening only works for honest people FELONS are NOT honest people. You can ask till you blue or PINK in the face all day and you wont get a STRAIGHT answer out of a felon unless they come out of the CLOSET

True. The only reason it came up is he asked about the procedure to apply for a permit and I explained about the disqualifying Misdemeanors. He said something like, "I have a felony conviction. Is that a problem?"

He was very up front about it when it came up. I didn't ask him any specifics but suggested he contact an attorney to see if there was any chance of getting it expunged.

[UTPD#5]

Hey I just realized we are chatting on a "sticky," I am going to request our discussion part of the thread be moved. I don't really want to discourage people looking at the thread for "good information" that is provided by Live Safe.

GF

[detroitpua]

Didn't ya know??? Felons always have a 'friend" call for them.

I screen everyone that calls me. I wouldn't want anyone being PO'd at me because they took a class that won't help them get a CPL. Besides, most people that don't qualify always seem to call me from a "Restricted ID" phone number. I don't answer these calls anymore.

Regards,

[Knimrod]

Discussion split and moved to new thread..

[UTPD#5]

Thanks Lance...can we lock the sticky thread?