Shooting AR15 at Steel Target from 50 yards - Ricochet

[dpzhn]

I know I will take a beating on this for my stupidity, but I wanted to ask for feedback anyway.

Earlier this week my nephew, son and I were shooting my AR at two 8" diameter steel targets that were 3/8" thick. The targets were hanging from hooks at a distance of about 55 yards and 2 1/2' off the ground. We were shooting Remington UMC .223 55gr FMJ ammo.

During our shooting, we had something ricochet back at us and hit me in the arm after about 100 rounds. I was observing at the time and standing about 3' behind and 5' to the left of the shooter. When I was hit it felt like a small piece of metal and didn't hurt that badly since it caught me on the back of my forearm on the bone close to my elbow. Regardless, we stopped shooting and changed to paper.

I purposely bought the steel targets for handgun shooting, but we set them up to try with the AR. I thought that since they were hanging, there was no chance of a ricochet. I am wondering if the targets were either not rated for AR's or if they were too heavy to properly deflect and allow the bullet to ricochet directly down rather than "straight" back - maybe when hit at the top (?). The targets were definitely beat up badly by the AR, but I still didn't think I would have an issue.

I'm looking for any feedback other than confirming my ignorance. Thanks.

[DP425]

I shoot steel all the time- AR500 face hardened armored steel. If shooting close range, you MUST be wearing eye pro- of course, you should always be wearing eye-pro, but if you're going to slack on that, shooting steel inside of 100m would be the worst time to get lazy.

I wouldn't be too worried about ricochets so long as you're not shooting at some strange angle. Try to stick to hardened steel, not only will it last longer, it doesn't deflect when a bullet impacts, which should help ensure the bullet disintegrates. Small, high-velocity bullets will usually come apart better than heavy, slow handgun bullets. Avoid steel core bullets; the lead mostly disintegrates there by dissipating the energy... steel doesn't.

Further, steel targets aren't intended to direct a ricochet- the intent is to disintegrate a lead and copper bullet. When I hang my targets in a way that has wood to the sides or top and bottom of the target, the result is that wood gets thoroughly sprayed by fragments. You run into problems if you shoot at the steel other than generally straight on- you wouldn't want to shoot at a 45 degree angle to the target- that will almost ensure a ricochet. The idea here is that a direct, generally straight on hit will cause the energy to compress the bullet against the hard surface and distribute it 360 degrees; this is why you get fragment spray around the target. If you're shooting at an irregular surface (mild steel that's been really beat up), you stand a better chance of the bullet striking an area that instead of smoothly deflecting directly to the side of the target, may direct fragments in other directions, sometimes back toward the shooter.

So, take aways from this are:
-Wear eye pro
-Use face hardened armor steel (such as AR400 or AR500)
-Do not use steel core or steel tip ammo
-Avoid use of copper solids
-Fire at a generally 90 degree direction from the target
-Wear eye pro (again)


I'll leave you with this- the Army uses steel... I assure you, if it were dangerous, the risk adverse Army would NEVER use it. You just need to be aware of the proper controls to implement to ensure safety.

[JohnJak]

Another reason for no steel at the pit.

[yankee1]

I was at a local gun club this last spring, they have a steel targets on the pistol range, 6-8 targets you can reset with a rope, I was wearing safety lasses and ear defenders
9mm rounds Hollowpoints, had shot several dozen rounds when TINK it felt like something flew across the top of my head, like maybe someone tossed a rock, I cleared my pistol, ran my hand across the top of my head and realized the ear muff bar which was resting on top my head was now to the backside of my head, I don't know if it was the bullet or something else but something flipped the band to the rear

[bolonytony24]

steel ammo will deflect off steel targets. use soft lead ammo if your shooting at relatively close range. i use the hanging targets that swing to deflect rounds. that helps as well and ive never had an issue . stray brass on a funny angle once in a while?

[Standby]

You can shoot "pre-fragmented" 5.56 ammo at Steel at 20 yards and have no problem with deflection, etc.....If your shooting regular ammo....100 yards should be your minimum for rifle.

[DP425]

I was at a local gun club this last spring, they have a steel targets on the pistol range, 6-8 targets you can reset with a rope, I was wearing safety lasses and ear defenders
9mm rounds Hollowpoints, had shot several dozen rounds when TINK it felt like something flew across the top of my head, like maybe someone tossed a rock, I cleared my pistol, ran my hand across the top of my head and realized the ear muff bar which was resting on top my head was now to the backside of my head, I don't know if it was the bullet or something else but something flipped the band to the rear


Let me guess, these targets were pretty well used, fairly beat up surface that wasn't exactly what one would call flat?

Sounds like falling plates and many of those plates are not armored steel- they take a beating and end up looking like the surface of the moon as a result. I already went over how that can be problematic.

[rugersingleshot]

You can shoot "pre-fragmented" 5.56 ammo at Steel at 20 yards and have no problem with deflection, etc.....If your shooting regular ammo....100 yards should be your minimum for rifle.


What he said!

[yankee1]

Let me guess, these targets were pretty well used, fairly beat up surface that wasn't exactly what one would call flat?

Sounds like falling plates and many of those plates are not armored steel- they take a beating and end up looking like the surface of the moon as a result. I already went over how that can be problematic.


the plate used is called Ballistic plate I do believe

[dpzhn]

Let me guess, these targets were pretty well used, fairly beat up surface that wasn't exactly what one would call flat?

I know this quote was in regards to a different post, but that's about when the ricochet happened - when the target was sufficiently beaten up after about 30 (?) hits or so. I'll stick to shooting at paper with the AR at short distances at this point.

Thanks for the feedback.

[DP425]

the plate used is called Ballistic plate I do believe

Was it smooth or beat to hell?

[langenc]

Rather than paper could try different bullets. as noted above on 2nd or third posting::

So, take aways from this are:
-Wear eye pro
-Use face hardened armor steel (such as AR400 or AR500)
-Do not use steel core or steel tip ammo
-Avoid use of copper solids
-Fire at a generally 90 degree direction from the target
-Wear eye pro (again)

[amontana086]

This seems ridiculously dangerous to me....

AwR9di_admE

Thoughts?

[yankee1]

Was it smooth or beat to hell?
I would have to go look again, next weekend ill be there.. I did let the club pres know, and suggested he move the stand, and maybe shorten the legs so your shooting @ downward angle, as it was he plates were about head height to me and im 6'2"

[Caliper]

This seems ridiculously dangerous to me....


Thoughts?

"Theoretically" it's just sheetmetal and a rifle round is going to just penetrate. "Theoretically".

Now, a fragment of jacket could shear off the bullet as it passes through, or you could hit one of the heavier pieces of structural metal in the car and ricochet off a strange angle or any number of other items that result in metalmbits hitting your body at high speed. Yes, dangerous, especially in short shorts, a tank top and fashion (?) sunglasses.

Centerfire rifle rounds should have 100yd to a steel target as a rule of thumb.

[fasteddie]

100 yards at steel is fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFiDvBOe820&list=UUtdDY6BLFmVfdlTipmVqj7A&index=12

[SuedePflow]

Cratered targets are dangerous to shoot at with anything close range.

I have one that is badly beat up from steel .223 and 7.62 rounds. At 100 yards, it's been safe. But if we lob pistol rounds at it within 20 yards, there's a solid chance at a 100+gr. piece of lead coming right back at us.

I love shooting steel targets. But not cratered targets.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/paulvolk/Shooting/20130908_195228_zps038669b8.jpg

[mikee1973]

Cratered targets are dangerous to shoot at with anything close range.

I have one that is badly beat up from steel .223 and 7.62 rounds. At 100 yards, it's been safe. But if we lob pistol rounds at it within 20 yards, there's a solid chance at a 100+gr. piece of lead coming right back at us.

I love shooting steel targets. But not cratered targets.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/paulvolk/Shooting/20130908_195228_zps038669b8.jpg
Damn! That's from shooting at 100 yards out? You need harder steel, I have 3/8" AR500 steel I've shot at under 50 yards that don't look anything like that.

[SuedePflow]

Damn! That's from shooting at 100 yards out? You need harder steel, I have 3/8" AR500 steel I've shot at under 50 yards that don't look anything like that.
This is the only target that I have that isn't AR500. This one is 1" thick mild steel. Picked it up for cheap at a gun show a while back. I expected it to hold up better than it did. First and last mild steel target I'll ever buy for rifle shooting.

[balrog006]

Damn! That's from shooting at 100 yards out? You need harder steel, I have 3/8" AR500 steel I've shot at under 50 yards that don't look anything like that.


SuedePflow also stated he was using STEEL 223 and 7.62 rounds... Might have something to do with it...

[MI-1911]

This seems ridiculously dangerous to me....

Thoughts?

Yes, she looks very dangerous! :naughty:

[JDG]

I shoot at steel up close with handguns, but make sure the target is angled at least as far as the pic shows...
Be safe!!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/photo.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/JDG357/media/photo.jpg.html)

[jmacken37]

Angle the steel downwards (towards the ground). I routinely shoot AR500 up close with 5.56. Use eyepro and don't cry if you catch shrapnel.