Michigan State University?

[somebody]

Really? I don't see a single thread in here from MSU. Don't tell me there aren't any MSU students here who are concealed carry advocates.

[Budget]

I tried to connect via Facebook with them but I never got an email or anything. Seems like they don't have their crap together. If anyone wants to start something, I'm all ears but I only have a handful of credits and work full time. Still would be dedicated if I'm employed in the area

[somebody]

Yeah, it looks like they never really got off the ground last spring. I'm surprised there wasn't a stronger response or more involvement. And if they were looking for a staff member to sponsor their organization, they probably could have tried the Demmer Center.

I'm not a student at MSU anymore, but as someone who works on campus five days a week, I really wouldn't mind being able to cc to work...

[kahluastud412]

I'm in!

[somebody]

I'm in!

Yeah! Right on!

[shoxroxice]

Another person willing to work on getting CC on campus supported here.

[mikeb32]

They maybe too busy making and delivering Pizza's!!! :hide: :hide:

Just teasing Gentlemen!!

[somebody]

Another person willing to work on getting CC on campus supported here.

Way cool. Honestly, I have no idea what the avenues for getting lobbying for that process would be, but I'm willing to help out in whatever capacity I can as a staff member.

[Shyster]

They maybe too busy making and delivering Pizza's!!! :hide: :hide:

Just teasing Gentlemen!!
ROFLMAO

[somebody]

ROFLMAO

Both of you can shut it. ;)

[denimdan]

Not sure how to even begin, but I'm also an MSU staff member who would love to CC at work. Let's make this happen, folks!

[Budget]

Well as far as I know they are not preempted by state law even though they receive state funding. We would have to appeal to the Board of Trustees as well as MSU PD to make any change in the law. This is what they have pertaining to firearms on university owned property http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/ordinances_sec18.html

It does say "except as permitted by state law"
I am "licensed by the state" to carry a firearm but not in classrooms/dorms etc. However, MSU can make its own laws as far as I understand (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I WILL EDIT POST AS NECESSARY). UofM and Wayne State fall under the same rules. That is why you can carry on MSU campus but a firearm cannot legally touch any part of UofM property.

My feeling is that you could add a 18.06 "except those licensed to carry a concealed pistol by this state or another so long as they follow state guidelines so long as state laws regarding reciprocity"
You would then need to change university policy for staff and students with firearms as well.

I think this is a pretty tough goal considering both the board and police department. You may not need the blessing of PD to change laws, but I don't think it would happen without approval from them.

[sse]

Both of you can shut it. ;)
YEAH THAT!

[kahluastud412]

Unless they change the pfz zones it still doesn't matter.

[MCMD357]

Really? I don't see a single thread in here from MSU. Don't tell me there aren't any MSU students here who are concealed carry advocates.

New member as of a few days ago. Just started in a grad program, live in Okemos.

[somebody]

New member as of a few days ago. Just started in a grad program, live in Okemos.

Nice.
Well, if you haven't been over to Demmer yet, check it out. Nice little range down there.
I'm trying to figure out who I need to talk to to get them to open it up to 9mm as well as .22 caliber. Their bullet trap will take 9mm, but the Board doesn't like it.

[MCMD357]

I'd like to take a few of my friends that are open to shooting to Demmer sometime; I know it's .22LR only, and that's fine since I can rock my 22/45. Do they have .22LR ammo for sale for paying range users? Because if not, all I've got is 200 rounds of Rem Thunderbolt and that's taken so much scrounging to find.

[somebody]

They have it to sell, but they're at $0.18/rd right now. Highway robbery.
If your group is four or more, call ahead and reserve. They'll appreciate it. Students get free equipment rental.

[MCMD357]

$0.18/rd

Remember when you used go to Walmart and grab a 550 of Federal bulk for 19.97? Ha, we'll see when or if those days come back. Summer of 2012 I was shooting about a box or two of those a week out of my 10/22 and my 22/45. I sure do miss those days.

[Golden Eagle]

Unless they change the pfz zones it still doesn't matter.Yes you said this back in Sep. but to clarify...

Yes the MSU laws (all carry illegal) need changed for the better. At this time though under state law it is legal to conceal anywhere except in "A dormitory or classroom" and technically OC in those places too.:thumbup:

[shenny88]

Not being able to carry on campus is my single most hated thing about MSU.

[kahluastud412]

Not being able to carry on campus is my single most hated thing about MSU.

MSU allows concealed carry on their campus with a CPL, they do NOT allow you to enter any of their buildings. However, the caveat is a student is still not allowed because you will be expelled if caught carrying on campus period.

This is an email received from VP of the board of trustees of MSU( Bill Beekman)

Thank you for your inquiry. Your question implicates both University ordinance and general conduct regulations for students. University Ordinance 18.00 permits a licensed individual to carry a concealed pistol on campus so long as the concealed pistol is carried in accordance with the concealed pistol statute. The University does not permit open carry of firearms on campus, regardless of whether the individual has a concealed pistol permit. Separate and apart from the University ordinance, General Student Regulation 2.03 prohibits any student from possessing or using a firearm on campus without University authorization. Therefore, a student may not carry a concealed pistol on campus, regardless of whether the student has a concealed pistol permit.

Bill Beekman

[Luke047]

I agree students should have the right to carry

[somebody]

I did review the University policies and came to the same conclusion.
Unfortunately, I work in one of a A: Dormitory, B: Classroom, or C: Sports arena, which are the three prohibited building types on campus, so I can't carry AT work. I can, however, carry TO work, and that's something that I may very well start doing at such time as I get my CPL. I'd feel okay about leaving my pistol in my car. There are a couple of out-of-sight areas that a person breaking into a car wouldn't think to look where I could put a gunvault to store it during the day.

[MCMD357]

Somebody:

Does this apply to students as well? I've been carrying a lot lately but I just leave it in the car when it's class or study time. Or really any other time I'm on campus.

-M

[JGant]

ROFLMAO


What's so funny ....????

[somebody]

18.00 FIREARMS OR WEAPONS

18.01 Possession prohibited; exceptions
18.02 Use of chemicals prohibited
18.03 Use prohibited; exceptions
18.04 Not applicable to police officers
18.05 Relationship to University policy

.01 Except as permitted by state law regulating firearms, no person shall possess any firearm or weapon anywhere upon property governed by the Board. Persons residing on property governed by the Board shall store any and all firearms and weapons with the Department of Police and Public Safety.

.02 No person shall possess any chemical, biological, radioactive, or other dangerous substance or compound, with the intent of using the same to injure, molest, or coerce another, anywhere upon property governed by the Board.

.03 The use of any firearm or weapon is prohibited upon property governed by the Board except those areas specifically set aside and supervised at range facilities, or as part of the regular education process, or as outlined in Ordinance 37.02 and its subsections.

.04 This ordinance shall not apply to Police Officers and other legally established law enforcement officers.

.05 This ordinance does not alter the terms of any University policies that regulate the use or possession of firearms.

Enacted: September 15, 1964
Amended: December 11, 1987
Amended: December 10, 1994
Amended: April 14, 1995
Amended: April 12, 2002
Amended: June 19, 2009

I interpret the first bolded section as "if you have a CPL, you can carry." A lawyer's input would be helpful here, especially given the "public university campus" factor.

Second bolded section: you can't keep them in dorms or university apartments.

Third bolded section seems to state that if you do legally carry your firearm on campus and somebody starts shooting up a classroom, you can still be in the wrong if you draw down on them and fire.

I'd be interested to have someone with more legal knowledge look over that ordinance and give their input.

[red442joe]

Is MSU the same as UofM and WayneState as allowed in state constitution to make their own laws? If not, shouldn't pre-emption apply? Perhaps that is the route to investigate.

Joe

[shoxroxice]

I wish they'd strike the words 'regulating firearms' in "Except as permitted by state law regulating firearms, no person shall possess any firearm or weapon" as that is the most restrictive possible local law, had they just left it at the state law, knives wouldn't be an issue along with firearms.

[mallard1123]

there should be

[crankythunder]

I'd like to take a few of my friends that are open to shooting to Demmer sometime; I know it's .22LR only, and that's fine since I can rock my 22/45. Do they have .22LR ammo for sale for paying range users? Because if not, all I've got is 200 rounds of Rem Thunderbolt and that's taken so much scrounging to find.

Dear MCMD and others:

The pistol team and the rifle team I shoot on have MSU Demmer as our home range. We have been trying to get Demmer opened up to centerfire rounds, particularly 32 caliber and 45 caliber pistol such that we can shoot the 45 and centerfire bullseye competitions there. Next time you visit, talk to Mike, the director, and see if a letter or note would help him. I do know that there is a lot of interest to bring Centerfire to Demmer and any assistance you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Cranky

[seuadr]

We have been trying to get Demmer opened up to centerfire rounds, particularly 32 caliber and 45 caliber pistol such that we can shoot the 45 and centerfire bullseye competitions there.

that would be PHENOMENAL. Total firearms seems to have a monopoly for quite a ways around Lansing on indoor ranges.. i think it would be wise to discuss building a business case for it - i would be willing to lend some of my time in this pursuit - just about everything i do in my department on campus is approved via making a strong business case. I wonder if there are any firms or advocacy groups that have done cost analysis on this sort of thing elsewhere?

[langenc]

Most Univ bureaurats like $$$ and will listen if presented in a good manner.

Someone in the business dept should be able to help draft the proposal. The collection of the numbers is another matter.

You have to be absolutely certain that the backstop is capable of handling the larger rounds. Dont want to go in a shoot up the range.

[Andre1919]

Here you go people. Can CC on campus just cant enter buildings. Point? Can only stroll through campus. haha

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/guns-on-campus-campus-action.aspx

[somebody]

Most Univ bureaurats like $$$ and will listen if presented in a good manner.

Someone in the business dept should be able to help draft the proposal. The collection of the numbers is another matter.

You have to be absolutely certain that the backstop is capable of handling the larger rounds. Dont want to go in a shoot up the range.

I've been told that the backstop will handle anything but .50, but the university board of trustees doesn't want centerfire on the range.

[50 BMG]

Here you go people. Can CC on campus just cant enter buildings. Point? Can only stroll through campus. haha

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/guns-on-campus-campus-action.aspx

I'm not so sure the interpretation on that page is entirely correct Andre...
From what I understand, they are treating "campus" as if the whole thing is a parking lot of a elementary/high School. In which case, concealed carry would only be legal while you remained inside the confines of your car. So, soon as you stepped out of your vehicle, carrying concealed would the be illegal, just like it is for any other "school yard" in the state...

[SteveS]

I'm not so sure the interpretation on that page is entirely correct Andre...
From what I understand, they are treating "campus" as if the whole thing is a parking lot of a elementary/high School. In which case, concealed carry would only be legal while you remained inside the confines of your car. So, soon as you stepped out of your vehicle, carrying concealed would the be illegal, just like it is for any other "school yard" in the state...

Incorrect. CC, with a permit, is legal. You don't have to remain in your car.

[50 BMG]

If I'm not mistaken, it IS legal to conceal carry on MSU's campus so long as you stay outside any of the buildings, right?

So, if students were to be granted the right to conceal carry from the university, wouldn't the state law preempt the ability to CCW in the dorms, classroom, academic buildings, etc...?