Registration Reform Assigned to Senate Committee!

[Knimrod]

Michigan: Registration Reform Assigned to Senate Committee!

Friday, April 25, 2008


Please Contact the Committee Members Today!

House Bill 4490 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(n3kk2r55ts3kf045nuwe4wzm))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2007-HB-4490) sponsored by State Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93) and House Bill 4491 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(prr0eufs243utm45opryguni))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2007-HB-4491) introduced by State Representative Joel Sheltrown (D-103) have passed the House and have been assigned to the Senate Judiciary Committee. A hearing date has not been scheduled yet. The bills would repeal the required "safety inspection" for newly obtained handguns. Current Michigan law requires anyone who comes into possession of a pistol to take it to the police or sheriff’s department for a safety inspection. The requirement of a safety inspection is a burdensome waste of time for law-abiding gun owners and the bills will end that inconvenience. Please contact members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and respectfully urge them to support these necessary pieces of legislation.


Senate Judiciary Committee:

State Senator Wayne Kuipers – Chair
(517) 373-6920
senwkuipers@senate.michigan.gov

State Senator Alan Cropsey (R-33)
(517) 373-3760
senacropsey@senate.michigan.gov

State Senator Alan Sanborn (R-11)
(517) 373-7670
senasanborn@senate.michigan.gov

State Senator Bruce Patterson (R-7)
(517) 373-7350
senbpatterson@senate.michigan.gov

State Senator Gretchen Whitmer (D-23)
517-373-1734
http://www.senate.mi.gov/whitmer

State Senator Hansen Clarke (D-1)
517-373-7346
http://www.senate.michigan.gov/clarke

State Senator Michael Pruse (D-38)
517-373-7840
senMPrusi@senate.mi.gov

[two_hand_control]

Come on people we need to :fa: this committee with e-mails, phone call so LETS DO IT :fa: a way. We do not want this bill to stop it is to close to passing.

[wishn-i-was-fishn]

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR!
This is a bad bill! It is no more than a shell game. It does not eliminate firearms registration and in fact may strengthen it because it will now be less obnoxious, which means we won't complain so much about it.

The only thing eliminated is the B.S. safety inspection, you still have to obtain a license to purchase, you still have to submit purchase information, and you still are maintained in a database at the local & state levels.

REGISTRATION IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARD CONFISCATION!

The entire registration process needs to be eliminated and this bill won't do it.
Shame on our elected officials for moving this bill forward to just appease the masses without dealing with truly important issue of eliminating the firearms registration database.

Shame on the sheep who think this is solving anything just because it simply makes the registration process more convenient by eliminating a trip to the police department.

[Howard000003]

I'm sorry wishn-i-was-fishn, I don't see your point...

[gsbell]

I'm sorry wishn-i-was-fishn, I don't see your point...
I know Daniel can speak for himself but he really was clear the first time.


It does not eliminate firearms registration and in fact may strengthen it because it will now be less obnoxious, which means we won't complain so much about it.

[woody1960]

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR!
This is a bad bill! It is no more than a shell game. It does not eliminate firearms registration and in fact may strengthen it because it will now be less obnoxious, which means we won't complain so much about it.

The only thing eliminated is the B.S. safety inspection, you still have to obtain a license to purchase, you still have to submit purchase information, and you still are maintained in a database at the local & state levels.

REGISTRATION IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARD CONFISCATION!

The entire registration process needs to be eliminated and this bill won't do it.
Shame on our elected officials for moving this bill forward to just appease the masses without dealing with truly important issue of eliminating the firearms registration database.

Shame on the sheep who think this is solving anything just because it simply makes the registration process more convenient by eliminating a trip to the police department.


I dont like being part of any data base either.But you would be amazed how many you are a part of already.If the registration part is eliminated ,how do you purpose we keep the
the bad guys from buying them? just asking.

[Knimrod]

We didn't acquire all these worthless gun laws in one fell swoop and we won't get rid of them in fell swoop. The were passed incrementally and the only way we'll get them repealed is incrementally.

[who dat]

I dont like being part of any data base either.But you would be amazed how many you are a part of already.If the registration part is eliminated ,how do you purpose we keep the
the bad guys from buying them? just asking.
Keeping them from buying them is not part of the registration process. It is only to have records of who had the guns when the Government wants to come get them.

NICS checks will do the prohibition part on the front end, there is no reason for anyone to know if I have guns.

[woody1960]

Keeping them from buying them is not part of the registration process. It is only to have records of who had the guns when the Government wants to come get them.

NICS checks will do the prohibition part on the front end, there is no reason for anyone to know if I have guns.

Well if they are doing the checking up front,what make you so sure they are not keeping tabs on who they are checking on?

[two_hand_control]

Come on people we need to :fa: this committee with e-mails, phone call so LETS DO IT :fa: a way. We do not want this bill to stop it is to close to passing.

I here what you are saying, just remember it took 8 plus years to get the Right to Carry in Michigan do you not think they are going to just roll over and give every thing we want oh a GOLd patter? :protest: And if the Apathetic Sportsman/women do not stop thinking every one else will do it, and start contacting their Representatives themself it will never HAPPEN :hide:

[who dat]

Well if they are doing the checking up front,what make you so sure they are not keeping tabs on who they are checking on?
They already do with the forms that get sent when you buy a gun. This is just to eliminate the redundant registration disguised as a safety inspection and take away one step of the process. Getting rid of all registration should be next.

[wishn-i-was-fishn]

If the registration part is eliminated ,how do you purpose we keep the
the bad guys from buying them? just asking.



How many convicted felons and gangbangers do you suppose register their handguns? Only law abiding citizens dutifully obey registration laws. Registration does not prevent violence, or crime it only allows for a compiling of data that can be used at a later date to 'control' a given segment of the population. Registration has not, does not, and never will prevent criminals, felons or gangbangers from obtaining handguns or any other gun, knife or restricted item.


We didn't acquire all these worthless gun laws in one fell swoop and we won't get rid of them in fell swoop. The were passed incrementally and the only way we'll get them repealed is incrementally.

These bills won't lead to an 'incremental' repeal of the Michigan handgun registration, instead they will make the process so user friendly that the majority of gun owners will not complain about it any more. This proposed change in the registration process is about just as effective as gun free zones are at preventing violence.
Although not all, it is certain that a great deal of Michigan gun laws were aquired in one fell swoop, passed in 1927 with pressure from the KKK in resposne to the Dr. Ossian Sweet trials. The sole purpose and intent of the Michigan handgun registration process was to control and monitor handgun ownership among the black population in Michigan at that time. The handgun registration scheme in Michigan was pushed through under the false pretence of being a "safety inspection". If the only important thing was to be sure handguns purchased in the state were safe to operate, why was/is it necessary to keep records of who the handgun belong to? This entire process is a violation of the civil rights of every citizen in this state and should be completely eliminated on those grounds alone.


I dont like being part of any data base either.But you would be amazed how many you are a part of already

Being in any database for any reason is not justification to support violating the civil rights of Michigan residents by requiring them to register handguns.

[KayL]

...The sole purpose and intent of the Michigan handgun registration process was to control and monitor handgun ownership among the black population in Michigan at that time. The handgun registration scheme in Michigan was pushed through under the false pretence of being a "safety inspection". If the only important thing was to be sure handguns purchased in the state were safe to operate, why was/is it necessary to keep records of who the handgun belong to? This entire process is a violation of the civil rights of every citizen in this state and should be completely eliminated on those grounds alone.
Excellent explanation, Dan.

[Jerry]

I have an observation but I dont want to get slammed too hard for this but...

When the green cards are gone....how am I going to convince the local constables either local state or federal that the piece is mine? Am I going to have to carry my bill of sale for proof?

The reason I ask is because I carry in other states and IF I get stopped and show my weapon and do not have proof of ownership and the constable does not have the ability or toys that our local police do then they can confiscate my weapon even if it is leagally mine AND I once exonerated I would have to travel BACK to that state to pick up my firearm.....which could be near impossible in some cases.

I am with Dan on this but I still feel better about having proof that the gun belongs to me because of the hassle it may save me in the future....

JR



Flame on......

[who dat]

I have an observation but I dont want to get slammed too hard for this but...

When the green cards are gone....how am I going to convince the local constables either local state or federal that the piece is mine? Am I going to have to carry my bill of sale for proof?

The reason I ask is because I carry in other states and IF I get stopped and show my weapon and do not have proof of ownership and the constable does not have the ability or toys that our local police do then they can confiscate my weapon even if it is leagally mine AND I once exonerated I would have to travel BACK to that state to pick up my firearm.....which could be near impossible in some cases.

I am with Dan on this but I still feel better about having proof that the gun belongs to me because of the hassle it may save me in the future....

JR



Flame on......
MI has no law stating you must have proof of ownership to carry your firearm, or to wear bluejeans.

If you are carrying according to the terms of your home state license, and following the laws of the state you are in, you should have no trouble.

If you are required to have proof of ownership in another state, you should have it. Do these states even have this law? Which states do you travel in?

[remingtondude58]

I am with Dan on this but I still feel better about having proof that the gun belongs to me because of the hassle it may save me in the future....

They could make it voluntary

[woody1960]

Ok,I guess I am missing something here.Are you talking about registering at the PD or at the store.either way your in a date base.I guess thats my point.
If you dont have to give info at either place bad guys can buy guns like a good guy.I hope your understanding me here.Some where we have to give info so we know only good guys are buying them.

[wishn-i-was-fishn]

woody1960
Ok,I guess I am missing something here.Are you talking about registering at the PD or at the store.either way your in a date base.I guess thats my point.
If you dont have to give info at either place bad guys can buy guns like a good guy.I hope your understanding me here.Some where we have to give info so we know only good guys are buying them.

Registration does ASOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent bad guys from buying guns, because...........bad guys don't register their guns.

The up front background check (NICS) done when you purchase from a dealer checks your existing records for any criminal or mental health issues that prevent firearms ownership. NICS records, by law, cannot be maintained in a database and must be destroyed because federally registering firearms is currently illegal.

Current Michigan law is a violation of our civil rights related to keeping and bearing arms.


How many convicted felons and gangbangers do you suppose register their handguns? Only law abiding citizens dutifully obey registration laws. Registration does not prevent violence, or crime it only allows for a compiling of data that can be used at a later date to 'control' a given segment of the population. Registration has not, does not, and never will prevent criminals, felons or gangbangers from obtaining handguns or any other gun, knife or restricted item.

[woody1960]

NICS records, by law, cannot be maintained in a database and must be destroyed because federally registering firearms is currently illegal.

Current Michigan law is a violation of our civil rights related to keeping and bearing arms.

Ok I understand now,Thanks for clearing that up. You learn somthing new everyday.;)

[Made_in_Michigan]

The up front background check (NICS) done when you purchase from a dealer checks your existing records for any criminal or mental health issues that prevent firearms ownership. NICS records, by law, cannot be maintained in a database and must be destroyed because federally registering firearms is currently illegal.


Unless Levin has his way that is....

Kay's Thread (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25758)

[langenc]

When you contact the (a) member(s) of the Senate committee ask them to also make the bill eliminate registration.

[smitty1]

MI has no law stating you must have proof of ownership to carry your firearm, or to wear bluejeans.

If you are carrying according to the terms of your home state license, and following the laws of the state you are in, you should have no trouble.

If you are required to have proof of ownership in another state, you should have it. Do these states even have this law? Which states do you travel in?

Then why do Conservation Officers always ask to see registration for my handgun? I don't believe you can be afield with a handgun without your registration with you unless maybe you have a carry permit. Please enlighten me.

[who dat]

Then why do Conservation Officers always ask to see registration for my handgun? I don't believe you can be afield with a handgun without your registration with you unless maybe you have a carry permit. Please enlighten me.
Ask them why they ask you for it. There is no law stating you must carry your safety inspection with or without a CPL.

There is no such thing as "registration"...you may try that one if you know the guy well enough.

[karcent]

There is no such thing as "registration"

Where did you get this notion?
Yes, we have handgun registration in Michigan.
If you doubt my words, pelase contact the MSP Firearms Unit in Lansing.
They will confirm.
The sooner people stop playing games with words, the sooner we may be able to do something about it.

[who dat]

Where did you get this notion?
Yes, we have handgun registration in Michigan.
If you doubt my words, pelase contact the MSP Firearms Unit in Lansing.
They will confirm.
The sooner people stop playing games with words, the sooner we may be able to do something about it.
It's been said about 10,000 times in the past year that we don't have a registration, just a safety inspection. Why do you wait until now to say this?

Many websites are out of date, including the MSP's. I'm pretty sure the term "registration" is also out of date. As I understand it, registration is illegal in MI, but is alive and well, hiding in the term "safety inspection".

[Aboleth]

Whats wrong with a safety inspection and registering your gun? I'm a hand gun owner, and love the freedom to own one, so please don't get me wrong here, but it does seem logical to me that a handgun is registered. The safety inspection, while almost useless from my perspective, is not something I'm complaining about. I'd say skip the safety inspection and require that individuals be trained in the proper use of a handgun before buying one. I'm much more interested in more education than an actual safety inspection of the gun.

I can understand the fear that eventually the politics in America will move to a point where handguns are banned, or under severe restriction. I don't like this idea any more than anyone else. If you are a responsible, law abiding citizen, it is your right to own a handgun. It is unfortunate that handguns are often associated with violent crime, but it is a reality. There are those people out there who's actions are "ruining it for the rest of us". The statistics show that the majority of crime commited with handguns is with ILLEGAL non-registered guns. Registration is important in my opinion, because I don't want felons and the mentally unstable to own handguns. I don't think this is too much to ask. It took me a total of 30 minutes to obtain my last handgun, and that seemed pretty fair to me. No one asked me about my personal business, or how I intended to use the gun. They just made sure I didn't have a record and sent me happily on my way.

So, I'm sure plenty of you don't agree with me here, and that's allright. I would ask 2 questions however.

Do you want felons and the mentally unstable to own handguns?
Do you think it would be a bad idea to require additional safety training to first time handgun owners? (the 14 question test is passable by anyone who isn't retarded, I believe we need more)

Again, I love owning guns, and i enjoy the same things all of you here do. I use my Glock 23 as a home defense gun, and I have a few rifles that I enjoy target shooting with (and ocassionaly hunting). Tell me what you think.

Nick

[Aboleth]

The "bad guys" may not buy registered guns, they are obtained in an illegal manner in many cases. In this case, isn't it wise to require people to have "the little green card"? If you get pulled over, and you have a handgun in your car, and it's just based on the honor system that it's your gun, then the bad guys aren't going to get stuffed and cuffed for owning an illegal gun are they?

Registration may not stop them from getting guns, but we can certainly nail them for owning an illegal one. I'm all for that, and I'm all for making it very easy to determine what guns are legal and what ones aren't.

[who dat]

See my avatar...they believed in registration.

There is no reason on earth that any government should know who is prepared to fight back if needed. There is no reason on earth for some person in the PD to look at my gun and say it's safe when they don't even know how it works.

There is no such thing as a "legal" or "illegal" gun, there are only law abiding citizens and non law abiding citizens. Law abiding citizens do not need to register their guns, it is an inherent right to defend oneself from crime. No government has the ability to grant rights, only to restrict them. If you let them slip up on you with baby steps like gun registration, safety inspections, terms like "illegal guns" and other BS, you are about to lose your rights without even knowing what happened.

Watch your 6, they're coming fast.

[Tedfs]

I think police already can tell which guys are bad and which ones aren't. If they pull someone over and he's pointing a gun at them, chances are he's a bad guy. If they pull somsone over and that person has a gun in the back seat just laying there, it's no damn business of theirs what it's doing there or whos it is.

Don't let anyone pull wool over your eyes by thinking that having a green card makes you safer. That little green card is for their benift, not yours. No one should have to "prove ownership" of anything simply because some police man wants to know, they simply don't have the rights or authority. Sure they can make your life difficult and hassle you or even taze you but you really have to ask your self, why they need to.

[gsbell]

Do you want felons and the mentally unstable to own handguns?
I think certain non-violent felons who have served their time deserve to have their rights restored. What is mentally unstable? Only those adjudicated by a court in my opinion.

Do you think it would be a bad idea to require additional safety training to first time handgun owners? (the 14 question test is passable by anyone who isn't retarded, I believe we need more)
Yes it a bad idea we do not need to legislate more hurdles and costs.

Tell me what you think.
I think you need to look at these issues a little deeper.

[langenc]

Jerry -poster #14-do you have to prove you own your long guns?

Why should handguns be different.

Ret rid of registration!!

[CyborgWarrior]

Jerry -poster #14-do you have to prove you own your long guns?

Why should handguns be different.

Ret rid or registration!!

If an officer has a concern he can run the serial number through NCIC/LEIN.
An established system that works nationwide.