Night Vision

[Jackam]

I am going to do it! I just don't know WHAT to do!

I want to spend about $3000 for a night vision scope. I don't know the difference between gen1 gen2 or gen3 or even any of the reputable manufacturers.

I just spent an hour on Optic Planet's site and I'm still in the dark.

Any help?

[mikeb32]

Sounds like you can't see the forest for the trees!! :poke::hide:

[chosos]

I have a gen 3 omni vii pinnacle autogated pvs-7 on its way here this week. That will be the best nvg i own.

I currently have 2 pvs-7's both gen iii but one is omni iii and one is omni iv. They work well, but i wanted something autogated.

I also own a litton m942 gen 2+ shp, which is generation 2, but it is a newer gen 2+ and the performance really rivals my generation 3 devices more than it does generation 2 devices.

Ive owned some older gen 2 stuff in the past and sold it.
I also own a gen 1 night owl. My first ever nvg... Pretty much worthless after having looked through gen 3.

When someone says gen 3 omni "x", that omni refers to a military minimum specification requirement, and it also ties to the year of service contract, since specifications changed over the years. When you buy from a reputable company, you need to make sure you get the omni information, or better yet... A spec sheet on the exact tube you buy.

Buying nvg feels like buying diamonds, because tubes are graded in a similar manner. There are zones in the optic, and blemishes of certain sizes and in certain zones detract from value. There are values for the brightness, resolution, etc.

For what your budget is, you should be able to get something nicer than the gen 3 pvs-7 i have on the way.

Do you know what you want? Monocular? Goggles? Binocular? Weapon mounted?

Honestly... I would go to arfcom, say i have 3k to buy, and see what the community comes back with.

[happy_gunner]

May I offer a suggestion.

Depending on what your goal is for an night vision scope, you might be better of getting a night vision goggle (NVG) and an infrared laser (IR laser) for your rifle. The issue with mounting the night vision on the rifle is that then you can only see while looking through the scope. But if you use a combination of NVGs and an IR laser, then you can use the NVG to see whether you are using your rifle or not and then when you are ready to use the rifle you just turn the IR laser on. That's the way it is done in the military, law enforcement, etc. Of course, if the NV scope is what you want, then by all means do that.

Another way to do it: some NVGs (PVS-14s) can also be mounted on the rifle before/after the optic depending on the type of optic you run. This set up benefits from a two for one deal. You can take the NVG off the rifle and use it by itself if you want and then mount it on the rifle and use it as a supplement to your existing optic to. An additional benefit is that you are using an optic you are already familiar with.

The wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision_device) providing information on night vision devices and the different generations (good, quick read).

[DP425]

Personally, I would skip the AN/PVS-7. The AN/PVS-14 is more versatile and IMO, easier to use. Unless you're going to run twin tubes (PVS-15/PSV-21), a monocular is the way to go for worn NV.

Go here for some good reading:
https://tnvc.com/technology/
https://tnvc.com/faq/
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-night-vision-devices/63638-buying-pvs-14-guide.html

[DP425]

Another way to do it: some NVGs (PVS-7s) can also be mounted on the rifle before/after the optic depending on the type of optic you run.

Not going to say it's impossible, but I have never seen PVS-7 mounted to a rifle. I know I wouldn't be interested in using it in this capacity. PVS-14's can be mounted on a rifle, but are generally not advised above .223. It should also only be mounted in front if the optic is non-magnified (think aimpoint).


If you want to be able to use a scope at night, hands down, the best option is a UNS such as the PVS-22

[happy_gunner]

Not going to say it's impossible, but I have never seen PVS-7 mounted to a rifle. I know I wouldn't be interested in using it in this capacity. PVS-14's can be mounted on a rifle, but are generally not advised above .223. It should also only be mounted in front if the optic is non-magnified (think aimpoint).


If you want to be able to use a scope at night, hands down, the best option is a UNS such as the PVS-22

My bad, I meant to type PVS-14, not PVS-7 - I don't think it is possible to do so or use in that way. For a dedicated night vision device on a rifle, something like the PVS-22s are better as it was designed for this purpose. However, at 3-5x the cost of a PVS-14 and only really usable on a rifle, the 14s might present a better bargain for someone.

[chosos]

Personally, I would skip the AN/PVS-7. The AN/PVS-14 is more versatile and IMO, easier to use. Unless you're going to run twin tubes (PVS-15/PSV-21), a monocular is the way to go for worn NV.

Go here for some good reading:
https://tnvc.com/technology/
https://tnvc.com/faq/
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-night-vision-devices/63638-buying-pvs-14-guide.html

The PVS-14's are quite a bit more versatile, since you have more mounting options, and adjustable gain. I enjoy my PVS-7's, but pinnacle tubed/ gen 3+ PVS-14's were also out of my budget. True Binocs are totally out of my budget. lol.

For $3000, you should likely be looking at Gen 3, Omni VIII stuff.
https://tnvc.com/shop/category/night-vision-monoculars/

I'm still a noob, but this looks pretty solid with the current 10% off coupon. It would be ~2500. : http://www.opticsplanet.com/opmod-pvs-14-night-vision-monocular-with-night-vision-head-gear.html

[happy_gunner]

I actually prefer the PVS-7 over the Monocular setup. Maybe I need a PVS-14 with adjustable gain, so I can turn it way down and try it that way to keep peripheral vision. For the price point, I've really enjoyed the PVS-7's.

The only issue i see with the 7s is the funneling of both eyes into 1 tube. While the 14s are also 1 tube, only 1 eye is used for the tube and the other eye is free.

[happy_gunner]

By the way, what are you going to be using the rifle/night vision set up for? Guess we should of asked that to start.. :facepalm:

[Jackam]

By the way, what are you going to be using the rifle/night vision set up for? Guess we should of asked that to start.. :facepalm:
Zombies

[Jackam]

By the way, what are you going to be using the rifle/night vision set up for? Guess we should of asked that to start.. :facepalm:

Night time coyote and hogs.
I have a hand held Flir thermal imager that is good for spotting, but I'd rather NV as opposed to light em up when I shoot.

[happy_gunner]

In that case, although the 22s are a bit more expensive, I think it would be your best option for you. Especially since you already have a hand held FLIR camera.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Coctailer]

Jackam, there is a lot of experts in this forum.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/18_Night_Vision.html

You can check out my NV kit if you are ever on the west side. I always bring it when I go to the Novi show also.

TNVC is a good resource for NV info. Their customer service is awesome.

[chosos]

Jackam, there is a lot of experts in this forum.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/18_Night_Vision.html

You can check out my NV kit if you are ever on the west side. I always bring it when I go to the Novi show also.

TNVC is a good resource for NV info. Their customer service is awesome.
I believe that they also hand pick all of their tubes, so you know you'll end up with a quality tube. They aren't cheap, though... so you pay for that level of service.

[DP425]

In that case, although the 22s are a bit more expensive, I think it would be your best option for you. Especially since you already have a hand held FLIR camera.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That may be the understatement of the century! lol $10,000 is a lot more than $3,000!

[chosos]

25463 <== PDF I threw together with some information I've been gathering from the Web. Hopefully it helps someone.

Night Vision and has always been a little confusing to me - I've never really been certain how certain numbers translate into real world observable differences. As I start building my collection of devices, I'm starting to understand it a bit more, though.

Hopefully this helps explains things a bit. Probably somewhat repetitive, if you've been scouring Optics Planet.

[chosos]

So Jack... did you end up buying that OPMOD, or are you going to get it from TNVC?

[Jackam]

Well, yesterday was my birthday so I was waiting..... :) No such luck!

It will be August before I buy. I'll watch incoming revenues and when the time is right for the tax deduction, I will jump.
I really like the info that I've gotten. The PDF is good (the glossary was REAL helpful!) and there's a ton of reading on the net. It all starts out as Greek but slowly I begin to speak Greek!

[Seri]

PVS-14 with a 3x lens behind the appropriate EOTech in the proper NV setting isn't terrible. Spotting with night vision attached to a firearm hasn't been very pleasant in my experience though so having another device to spot with might be nice. Be cautious not to burn your night vision with the reticle or any other light source.

[Jackam]

Be cautious not to burn your night vision with the reticle or any other light source.
? Care to elaborate ?

[Seri]

? Care to elaborate ?

As I understand it, light that is too intense can damage night vision. I have accidentally left a passive night vision device on while aimed at an illuminated light bulb and it left a temporary dark burn that could be seen when looking through the night vision. Luckily, it went away. I have heard of permanent burns being left though.

[Nightshade1]

gen1 and gen 2 night vision are susceptible to being burned-out from surges in received light as it overloads the phosphor tube. He talks about a pvs-14 though, and I was under the impression that all gen-3 was auto-gated, meaning that the phosphor tube's power supply cycles on and off to adjust for inbound light.

Anyone look at digital night vision? The impression I get from watching video reviews of the Pulsar 550 and 750 are that its basically a "gen 1.5" device with a potentially unlimited number of operating hours (versus 1500 hours for gen 1, 5000 hours for gen 2 and 10000 hours for gen 3)

[Seri]

gen1 and gen 2 night vision are susceptible to being burned-out from surges in received light as it overloads the phosphor tube. He talks about a pvs-14 though, and I was under the impression that all gen-3 was auto-gated, meaning that the phosphor tube's power supply cycles on and off to adjust for inbound light.

Anyone look at digital night vision? The impression I get from watching video reviews of the Pulsar 550 and 750 are that its basically a "gen 1.5" device with a potentially unlimited number of operating hours (versus 1500 hours for gen 1, 5000 hours for gen 2 and 10000 hours for gen 3)

I don't believe all gen 3 is all autogated and I believe even autogated gen 3 can be burned.

[ka64]

Well, yesterday was my birthday so I was waiting..... :)

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx155/ukrany1/Pics%20and%20Vids/46_1207_04055_sexy_happy_birthday_zpsc195d3ea.jpg (http://s751.photobucket.com/user/ukrany1/media/Pics%20and%20Vids/46_1207_04055_sexy_happy_birthday_zpsc195d3ea.jpg. html)

[Jackam]

No night vision needed there!
Thank you!

[Coctailer]

Night time coyote and hogs.
I have a hand held Flir thermal imager that is good for spotting, but I'd rather NV as opposed to light em up when I shoot.

Which Flir do you have?

I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on an EoTech X320.

[Jackam]

Which Flir do you have?

http://www.opticsplanet.com/flir-scout-ps-32-thermal-handheld-monocular.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CK_d8PyWr70CFbFFMgodyCcATw

[Jackam]

Any thrills here?
I don't know if these are great prices or not.

[Coctailer]

It depends on the specs and the tube manufacturer.

The pricing is too good to be true with quality components.

Post that pic in the NV forum on ARFCOM, and the experts in there can let you know more than your brain can absorb.

[Nightshade1]

Any thrills here?
I don't know if these are great prices or not.

Yeah, paying less than 3000 for a new gen-III is kinda asking for trouble. That's why its not even on my radar for now.

[Jackam]

These are all demo prices and supplies are limited.

[Coctailer]

These are all demo prices and supplies are limited.

The tubes have a finite life. The demo units won't have logged hours. Just guesses as to how much they got used.

I would like a Pinnacle Gen III PVS-7 if it was $1500. Not many people like these since they are normally the same price as a 14.
The PVS-14 is a good price also. Depending.

Are they available to take apart to check the manufacture date of the image tube?
It really depends on manufacture of tube, unit, image. Are there data sheets?

TNVC has hand selected brand new units for a little more.

[freakinhugebear]

I have a gen 1 mounted on a 300blk AR with an excellent IR illuminator. You could engage a target out to the effective range of the rifle IMO with this setup. You are 15-30 mins from me if you'd like to check it out before springing all the cash. I was shocked at the difference a good IR illuminator makes on a gen 1.

Scope http://www.amazon.com/Yukon-Tactical-Internal-Focusing-Riflescope/dp/B0018LH2QA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1396195516&sr=8-5&keywords=night+vision+scope

I do have some flakes on the reticle with mine, probably not the cleanest unit but acceptable for the price.

Illuminator http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RB82D2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Total cost in under 700

I think upgrading to the tnvc torch would make this unit outstanding for the price.

[chosos]

These are all demo prices and supplies are limited.
Do you have a link to the source? It might not be a bad deal, but it really depends what you're getting. If you can save 30-50% on a used device with a quality tube it might be a worthwhile purchase. Paying $3000 for a NVD also doesn't mean you're getting a something great, but it generally means you have a great warranty (on a device that was built to withstand battlefield conditions).

FWIW, I've gone through roughly 7-8 sets of Gen 3 Night vision in the past month and a half. I've finally settled on 2 sets of ITT Pinnacle Tubed PVS-7's that suit my needs perfectly. (I couldn't get into PVS-14's, even though it seems like all of Arfcom adores that model). Going through my upgrade process really helped me understand and appreciate the differences in Generation 3 Night vision, as I moved through the various types of Gen 3 NVD.

I also have a Gen 1 cascade project that I'm working on. I have $100 into that project, and I'll likely post pictures if it turns out ok.

[Coctailer]

Do you have a link to the source? It might not be a bad deal, but it really depends what you're getting. If you can save 30-50% on a used device with a quality tube it might be a worthwhile purchase. Paying $3000 for a NVD also doesn't mean you're getting a something great, but it generally means you have a great warranty (on a device that was built to withstand battlefield conditions).

FWIW, I've gone through roughly 7-8 sets of Gen 3 Night vision in the past month and a half. I've finally settled on 2 sets of ITT Pinnacle Tubed PVS-7's that suit my needs perfectly. (I couldn't get into PVS-14's, even though it seems like all of Arfcom adores that model). Going through my upgrade process really helped me understand and appreciate the differences in Generation 3 Night vision, as I moved through the various types of Gen 3 NVD.

I also have a Gen 1 cascade project that I'm working on. I have $100 into that project, and I'll likely post pictures if it turns out ok.

Awesome! You are doing the Cascade project also?

I have 2 of the 8079HP image intensifiers I have been monkeying with for the last couple years.

I need to get housings put together for them.

[chosos]

Awesome! You are doing the Cascade project also?

I have 2 of the 8079HP image intensifiers I have been monkeying with for the last couple years.

I need to get housings put together for them.

Yeah, i got one of the varo 7854a/uv (pvs-2) tubes off of ebay for $50, so i figured i would try it and give it to my kids, or sell it. For a housing, i used a plastic mailer tube off of amazon. It fit perfectly and was easy to cut.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00251CEOC/

Pvs is stronger, but add lots of bulk and weight. This looks more refined, and less home built.

[Coctailer]

Yeah, i got one of the varo 7854a/uv (pvs-2) tubes off of ebay for $50, so i figured i would try it and give it to my kids, or sell it. For a housing, i used a plastic mailer tube off of amazon. It fit perfectly and was easy to cut.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00251CEOC/

Pvs is stronger, but add lots of bulk and weight. This looks more refined, and less home built.

Post up some pics yo!!

I'm interested in how to locate the distance for the objective lens from the front of the intensifier. If the lens is mounted into the mailer cap, I'm not sure where to stop when sliding it on. I was planning on glueing the cap in place.

Mine is held together with blue painters tape right now.:-?

Works great, you just need 3 hands to use it.

[chosos]

I am still waiting on my front objective lens. I still don't even know if my 7854 tube is inverted or not. I was planning on using the eyepiece from a PVS-7 because I had one with a broken left eye piece, so I cut out the right one and figured I would just use that. Not sure if it'll work yet.

Here is where I'm at with it so far.
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs-2.jpg

I used that blue shipping tube, and cut an extra piece the same length, and split it down the middle and double lined the wall with it to reinforce the housing. It is incredibly solid and I think it will work out great. It looks better than a cardboard shipping tube.

For my battery box, I got one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-AA-Battery-Holder-Box-6V-Case-W-lead-ON-OFF-Switch-Enclosed-Box-Snap-On-HM-/400625735643?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d472797db

but I was thinking that a AAA version would sit better on the tube.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-AAA-3A-Battery-Holder-Box-6V-Case-W-lead-ON-OFF-Switch-Enclosed-Box-Snap-On-/290957474652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43be6abb5c

I was going to epoxy the battery box to the tube, and fill in the gap with epoxy or JB Weld, and then I was debating on having the whole thing bed liner-ed just for added durability. Once it is all working, I may RTV everything in place. I don't have a fancy 3D printer to print out a nice housing, so epoxy and JB Weld will work fine for a DIY project.

[chosos]

I finally got my lens and finished this project up. The gain is pretty good, but the whole fisheye viewing isn't really all that great since I'm spoiled with Pinnacle Gen 3 PVS-7's. This Varo intensifier is out of a PVS-2. I used an eBay front objective CCTV lens, which also allows me to adjust the light input, so it really gives this thing mechanical manual gain control - neat!

For the eyepiece lens, I really just used a piece of plexi. The eyepiece from my PVS-7 didn't work out, and after toying around with this, turns out - I didn't even need an eyepiece.

I'll post some pictures through the tube later tonight when it gets dark. I think I have $100 total into this build, and for $100, it is definitely worth it. Completely blows away my cheapo Night Owl NOCX Gen 1 Monocular.

http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-1.jpg
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-2.jpg
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-3.jpg
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-4.jpg
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-5.jpg
http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/pvs2-6.jpg